Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[Doruge]

Who's to say its not official? Did we hire scientists to do research on this? Or do you only listen to tourney goers?

Do you even know what "official" means?

 

[Bearbuddy4]

Yeah I do. I don't think you do though. There is no such thing as an official list. Its just speculation. And that speculation changes based on the general public's understanding of the game as it progresses. If it was official wouldn't it be from the creators of the game? Do you know what official means?

 

[AirJordans]

Who's to say its not official? Did we hire scientists to do research on this? Or do you only listen to tourney goers?

The creator of the thread said it was unofficial, but that he hopes it eventually gets moved to the competitive forum. Did you read the first post of this thread?

There is no such thing as an official list. Its just speculation. And that speculation changes based on the general public's understanding of the game as it progresses. If it was official wouldn't it be from the creators of the game? Do you know what official means?

Official to the board, not universally official (though the SWF tier lists are recognized by a lot of outside sources as the most official list). Thanks for the sweet philosophy lesson, but you're wrong. Do you know what legitimacy means?

"In political science, legitimacy is the popular acceptance of an authority, usually a governing law or a régime. Whereas "authority" denotes a specific position in an established government, the term "legitimacy" denotes a system of government — wherein "government" denotes "sphere of influence"."

 

[#Drift108]

i really fail to c how ness is top 5, sorry

 

[Uncle]

I'm not mad or anything like that, but why is Pikachu #3 on this tier list? I'm genuinely curious.

I personally think that he's a good character, but putting him above the likes of Rosalina, Sonic, Luigi, and Ness is seriously pushing it. I'd love to hear a good argument that goes beyond "ESAM does well with him." ESAM could take almost any character in this game and make people believe that said character should be multiple tiers higher.

 

[Mo433]

i really fail to c how ness is top 5, sorry

It's most likely NAKAT, as he has gotten really far in tournanments using Ness, and has one a few with him. Personally, I see Ness as a high B tier.

 

[L9999]

It's most likely NAKAT, as he has gotten really far in tournanments using Ness, and has one a few with him. Personally, I see Ness as a high B tier.

Every Ness I have seen that is not played by NAKAT, Awestin or FOW gets 2 stocked or is at brutal disadvantage on regular basis. They are no different from the Ness players in For Glory. Ness is hard as hell to play anyways.

 

[Enoki]

Who's to say its not official? Did we hire scientists to do research on this? Or do you only listen to tourney goers?

There is no such thing as an official list. Its just speculation. And that speculation changes based on the general public's understanding of the game as it progresses. If it was official wouldn't it be from the creators of the game? Do you know what official means?

Official: "authorized or issued authoritatively." You're definitely not wrong in stating that a tier list is a form of speculation. However, "official" is synonymous with "authority" and I would argue that a list in which anyone can vote is hardly authoritative. The people who could be considered to have authority in this game's competitive environment are not the creators as you suggested, but rather those with the most experience in a competitive setting(i.e. Zero), and this list has minimal input from them. Thus, little authority (except maybe amongst the casual public, which means nothing). A tier list is formed based on knowledge, experience, and perception. That's why there are back rooms for respective games - so the most knowledgeable people can form tier lists based more on experience and understanding; a public list is bound to be more influenced by perception.

Also, as mentioned earlier, it's a very early metagame. Things are constantly changing and there's very little empirical data in regards to character performance (besides the obvious fact that Diddy is dominating right now). Once things have settled a bit we might start seeing more attempts at authoritative tier lists.

tl;dr: Is this list decent and relatively accurate? I suppose so. Official? Eh, not really at all.

 

[nOPE™]

I'm not mad or anything like that, but why is Pikachu #3 on this tier list? I'm genuinely curious.

I personally think that he's a good character, but putting him above the likes of Rosalina, Sonic, Luigi, and Ness is seriously pushing it. I'd love to hear a good argument that goes beyond "ESAM does well with him." ESAM could take almost any character in this game and make people believe that said character should be multiple tiers higher.

I am curious too and I am even maining Pikachu for now.

Here some opinions that I have seen:


1. A few months ago ZeRo posted a Pikachu video and stated that he feels Pikachu is in the top three, tied with Diddy.

2. A few months ago Nakat stated that he thinks Pikachu is in the top 5 in his Pikachu tutorial video.

3. I think Jtails thought highly of Pikachu as well, I don’t recall where he placed him (probably in his tutorial video as well).

These opinions were early in the game's life (I mean we're still early, but they came earlier than now) so who knows what they think, and it's all opinions of course and anything can change.

There were other instances were people thought highly of Pikachu and theorized that when the meta is hashed out more he will be more attractive… or something like that. Which is why he is not used as much in tournaments aside from Esam who retired…?? They seem to like his combo ability and the options he has to follow through off the ledge and recover (I think).

 

[L9999]

How interesting. The same people that overrate Ness are the same people that overrate Pikachu. Well, NAKAT gets a pass on the Ness hype, becuase he plays Ness and most Ness's get wrecked.

 

[Dre89]

I'm not mad or anything like that, but why is Pikachu #3 on this tier list? I'm genuinely curious.

I personally think that he's a good character, but putting him above the likes of Rosalina, Sonic, Luigi, and Ness is seriously pushing it. I'd love to hear a good argument that goes beyond "ESAM does well with him." ESAM could take almost any character in this game and make people believe that said character should be multiple tiers higher.

Because his kit is insanely good when you look at it. He's fast, and has good frame data both on the air in the ground which makes him hard to punish. His small hitbox means that a lot of moves straight up cannot hit him when he's on the ground. He gets 30%+ from a grab. He has the best gimping in the game and is probably the hardest to gimp aside from Villager. He has the tools to either camp you with QACing and tjolts or he can scrap up close because of his frame data. He has a good advantaged state but more importantly he probably has the best disadvantaged state in the game.

QACing is what makes him top 3 though. Even standard QA is so good and can be hard to punish if used correctly. Another thing about Pika that people look over is that he's good on every stage. You can't ban him out stage-wise because he gets something good on most of them. Platforms give him so much QAC points. Slopes and slants help his tjolts, and big stages like FD help his camping and make standard QA harded to punish.

His difficulty KOing onstage is somewhat cancelled out by having the best offstage game. His only true weakness is lack of range. He's also harder to play than characters like Diddy. People are discouraged from exploring Pika when they can just pick up Diddy and win with less effort.

 

[Xyrohip]

I'm am the best Shaq

 

[Zerp]

So guys, I noticed a major formatting error on the list, but don't worry I fixed it, this is how the list actually looks.

Spoiler

S
A
B
C
D
E
F
G
H

 

[Sir Tundra]

So guys, I noticed a major formatting error on the list, but don't worry I fixed it, this is how the list actually looks.

Spoiler

S
A
B
C
D
E
F
G
H

Shaq's too good that he makes up most of the roster

 

[misterOWAIN33]

Man...
We gotta add Shaq Daddy to the tier list...

S
A
B
C
D
E
F
G
H

Man...
We gotta take Shaq Daddy outta the tier list...

 

[Kero the Invincible]

So we've finally got the first draft!

...........................................

Just in time for another balance patch.

 

[Browny]

Balance patches incoming in patch 1.0.6.

RIP this list.

RIP every tier list with them balancing it this often.

 

[Liduri]

New Luigi teach, + Mewtwo + Lucas.
We need to start again : (

 

[Sir Tundra]

Balance patches incoming in patch 1.0.6.

RIP this list.

RIP every tier list with them balancing it this often.

Ayy don't worry OP, their just gonna nerf greninja again, nothing too serious.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Balance patches incoming in patch 1.0.6.

RIP this list.

RIP every tier list with them balancing it this often.

Thats right

And also because of and then a certain day in june

 

[Jtails]

I think Pikachu is top 10, not really top 5 in my opinion.

 

[WyrmJaw]

+1 - DeDeDe, Yes, he lost the D-air and his F-Smash doesn't deal with projectiles anymore, but I don't think the king deserves to be bottom tier, he's still very viable with the Back air and Down smash.

 

[warriorman222]

+ 3
+151
+9001

 

[andimidna]

List seems heavily based off general consensus/ mid level opinion. And for that, it's great.
And for a community voted tier list, likely the best.
Just wish it seemed to consider potential a little more, and showed less outdated opinions. (Lucario, Peach, Wario, Dr. Mario, and Palutena to name some that stand out imo)
Great job guys, I hope to contribute more than the like what, 2 times I did for the last one? Yea, so that'll probably be soon right?

 

[N30n/Shade]

+1 Shulk
+1 Robin
+1 Peach
+1 Dark Pit
+1 Jigglypuff

 

[ミスティック Speed]

Lucas comes out of Nowhere...
To mess up this tier list.

 

[Jiggly]

We should probably wait at least a month after tho, so we can have time to deal with the updates +mewtwo

 

[kesterstudios]

im glad another balance patch is coming. now diddy kong can get nerfed and sheik can get slightly nerfed. I hope other characters get buffed like Zelda, charizard, samus, marth, lucina, g&w, king dedede and a few other characters.

 

[Liduri]

we want jiggly in top 5 (just dreaming)

 

[TaRtOoN-Hand94]

+1 R.O.B.
+1 Toon Link
+ 1 Shulk
+1 Mr. Game & Watch

 

[Ryan.]

I wonder how much the new patch will change this list. Hoping Lucas and Mewtwo are both pretty high up too when the time comes.

 

[Eisen]

If Lucas is in low tier again I will be upset.

I hope he has easy-peazy uptilt into uptilt combos like Mario and Fox though

Nah but looking at his gameplay, he at least has a good recovery. Not as gimpable as Ness, multihit, doesn't disappear, etc. Tether is long, too. Having a solid recovery in this game is usually a good sign. I speculate he'll at the LEAST be low mid tier unless his kill power is just abysmal like Samus

But yeah, really hoping some characters with obvious tools missing (Doc, Samus, WFT, Lucina, GW, D3, Jr) get some buffs and the characters with dumb/toxic options (SONIC, Diddy, Rosa, Sheik, ZSS) get minor nerfs.

 

[Malkior7]

so what's going to happen with this once new fighters get added? revote or something?

 

[ミスティック Speed]

If Lucas is in low tier again I will be upset.

I hope he has easy-peazy uptilt into uptilt combos like Mario and Fox though

Nah but looking at his gameplay, he at least has a good recovery. Not as gimpable as Ness, multihit, doesn't disappear, etc. Tether is long, too. Having a solid recovery in this game is usually a good sign. I speculate he'll at the LEAST be low mid tier unless his kill power is just abysmal like Samus

But yeah, really hoping some characters with obvious tools missing (Doc, Samus, WFT, Lucina, GW, D3, Jr) get some buffs and the characters with dumb/toxic options (SONIC, Diddy, Rosa, Sheik, ZSS) get minor nerfs.

Spin Dash spam= you're screwed

 

[Eisen]

Spin Dash spam= you're screwed

Ftilt, jab, dtilt, nair, pkf, dash attack I feel like would be good answers. And who knows how far that tether grab can really go now.

 

[Browny]

so what's going to happen with this once new fighters get added? revote or something?

It depends how often its patched.

If there is a new patch incoming in June when Lucas releases, then we can expect a patch when the smash ballot character releases too. Considering it took 4 months to do this, if balance patches come out every 3 months then theres just no point in doing this anymore.

I actually really like balance patching its the best thing there can be, but for the generation of tier lists, it makes life hard.

 

[Meru.]

I actually really like balance patching its the best thing there can be, but for the generation of tier lists, it makes life hard.

Perhaps that's also Sakurai's intention.

"Never... will they create a tier list of my game again"

 

[Browny]

I want to make a new account to like that twice, that's brilliant lol.

 

[Vipermoon]

Verison 2.0 will involve customs which is happening in 4 months.

Also yeah I agree. Doc is rated way too low cause people be like Docs recovery sux or Docs slower then mario. I mean I wouldn't say he should be placed with mario but bottom tier imo is a bit to much for doc.

I really hope it doesn't happen this way. I've said this before:

We NEED separate voted tier lists for customs and no customs. Even if every tournament ever from now on allows customs, it is still a great idea to rate characters without customs both for Smash tradition reasons and the ability to say "this character gets a lot better/worse with customs". It is really important that 2.0 continues the work we put in on 1.0 by having separate lists that aren't clouded by a switch to customs.

We can either make a separate thread with the same rules (better idea) or we can vote for two things at once in this thread. Whatever it is, there must be two.

I'd like to also say that I agree that there are too many tiers. The lower characters really aren't "low" in this game.

 

[Sir Tundra]

I really hope it doesn't happen this way. I've said this before:

We NEED separate voted tier lists for customs and no customs. Even if every tournament ever from now on allows customs, it is still a great idea to rate characters without customs both for Smash tradition reasons and the ability to say "this character gets a lot better/worse with customs". It is really important that 2.0 continues the work we put in on 1.0 by having separate lists that aren't clouded by a switch to customs.

We can either make a separate thread with the same rules (better idea) or we can vote for two things at once in this thread. Whatever it is, there must be two.

I'd like to also say that I agree that there are too many tiers. The lower characters really aren't "low" in this game.

I agree with that having a separated tier list for customs and no customs would be a great idea since not all tournies like C.E.0 will be allowing custom moves.