Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[lbrasz44]

+Apparently he dominated in doubles at Pound, also, Zage has reemerged and started to place well again at xanadu. A character who has so many mixup option like this guy should probably be in t4 at least.
+I noticed that there was just generally improved play by this character the past couple months, so I think he could stand to move up a tier. Also helps that a Robin player eliminated Nairo from Pound as well (or sent him to losers? I forgot).
+ He lost uair chains but still a really solid character that can compete for a high level tourney win. People just have to do it without relying on his jank haha.
-I think she holds the same individual position, just at the top of t2 rather than bottom of t1.
-I'm not entirely convinced Lucario is that high when literally everyone else in t3 has consistently had some presence in high level tourneys (I've noticed that rob is fairly popular in Europe, or at least has some good players repping him). Of course someone should correct me if I'm wrong, as I simply never really see this guy being used anywhere.

 

[Deleted member]

+Apparently he dominated in doubles at Pound, also, Zage has reemerged and started to place well again at xanadu. A character who has so many mixup option like this guy should probably be in t4 at least.
+I noticed that there was just generally improved play by this character the past couple months, so I think he could stand to move up a tier. Also helps that a Robin player eliminated Nairo from Pound as well (or sent him to losers? I forgot).
+ He lost uair chains but still a really solid character that can compete for a high level tourney win. People just have to do it without relying on his jank haha.
-I think she holds the same individual position, just at the top of t2 rather than bottom of t1.
-I'm not entirely convinced Lucario is that high when literally everyone else in t3 has consistently had some presence in high level tourneys (I've noticed that rob is fairly popular in Europe, or at least has some good players repping him). Of course someone should correct me if I'm wrong, as I simply never really see this guy being used anywhere.

Day is a Lucario main here in FL, and Serge gets pretty good placements in Mexico.

 

[DMWN]

Interesting how things have shaped up. It's amazing how dumb people were, down voting Bayonetta "just to merge the tiers" but since everyone did it, she's not even top 10 anymore. Seriously, though, what the heck?

calm the hell down dude, you're not exactly the sharpest tool in the shed yourself

+
+
+
+
+

 

[Deleted member]

calm the hell down dude, you're not exactly the sharpest tool in the shed yourself

Runaway comin' in with the sick beats. <3

 

[Xandercosm]

Real talk, I overreacted over people posting tier lists... still triggered by people listing Palutena as bottom 5 when they lack decent knowledge, but that's a tangent for another day.

But still, let's not clog the thread up with them. Browny has to go through this thread to count all the votes and whatnot and he probably doesn't wanna dig through all of them to see people's votes.

I think you should stop being a jerk and trying to force people to think Palutena is good. Why are you so stuck on the idea that Palutena is this amazing character with great results when you consider King Dedede bottom 3. Dedede gets similar if not better results than Palutena and Big D dominates his area. That's not stopping anyone from saying the character is trash because it doesn't matter how good their results are if they are fundamentally flawed. I think you need to separate your love of Palutena from your opinion on her viability.

The character isn't going anywhere and taking a couple small tournaments because nobody has any MU knowledge on Palu since nobody plays her means nothing. You really need to stop bullying people and calling them "misinformed" or "ignorant" just because they disagree with you.

 

[Green Zelda]

oh god here we go

 

[Kaiduru Zeta]

why do people still think Dedede is good

he's not tier 5 material at all. he has a godawful approach and neutral, poor frame data, outright can't do anything against lame/smart defensive or aggresive play and is absolute combo food thanks to being a fastfaller and the worst air speed in the game. he has good results, but any ****ty character can get results ()

I can see why he's a bad character however ZeRo's vid kind of opened me up to him. Gordos are great for pressure and stage control. His attacks do some pretty good damage. Also, being heavy helps him out so he's not knocked out as early. I respect your opinion totally but I have to disagree.

 

[Deleted member]

I think you should stop being a jerk and trying to force people to think Palutena is good. Why are you so stuck on the idea that Palutena is this amazing character with great results when you consider King Dedede bottom 3. Dedede gets similar if not better results than Palutena and Big D dominates his area. That's not stopping anyone from saying the character is trash because it doesn't matter how good their results are if they are fundamentally flawed. I think you need to separate your love of Palutena from your opinion on her viability.

The character isn't going anywhere and taking a couple small tournaments because nobody has any MU knowledge on Palu since nobody plays her means nothing. You really need to stop bullying people and calling them "misinformed" or "ignorant" just because they disagree with you.

I can literally say the same thing for when you whine about people downvoting Mario or thinking he's not a top tier character, lmao.

This post is just outpouring salt.

 

[Kaiduru Zeta]

Woops just read what I said at the bottom of your message lol

 

[Xandercosm]

I can literally say the same thing for when you whine about people downvoting Mario or thinking he's not a top tier character, lmao.

This post is just outpouring salt.

I've never whined about Mario. I can't say if he's top 5 or not myself.

This response is just your way of trying to make a snappy comeback to save face so you don't have to explain yourself.

 

[Bowserboy3]

To be fair though, can we not just throw offense around for somebody not agreeing with an opinion you hold?

Tier lists are created from multiple opinions, so it's normal for there to be disagreeing opinions. Just because somebody thinks differently, doesn't mean they are wrong. One person is allowed his opinion, another is allowed his. It doesn't mean one is right, as an opinion is not fact.

You can't hide though @Feelicks, you do need to respect the opinions of others more. Literally today, regarding Mewtwo, you said to me:

You're silly to think he's not a high tier character at this point.

While this is somewhat true, you can't go out on a whim and address multiple people like that, just because they have different opinions to you. I can't deny I used to be a huge offender of this in the past. Try and be more accepting, or, just discuss with people.

Discussions help make tier lists, not arguments or offenses.

Word of the day: Maturity - we could all do with a bit of this.

 

[LRodC]

+ (The winner of Pound. Deserves to be in tier 2 and has proven multiple times this weekend that he belongs there.)
- (Literally the only top player representing him right now is ESAM. Pikachu is nowhere near the anticipated huge threat everyone expected him to become. He's good, but not tier 2 good. He needs to drop ASAP.)
+ (With his ability to swing matches at a whim and instill fear in opponents, I feel he should be in tier 3. He has other advantages too like good overall mobility for a heavyweight. His placement will likely hover around high tier to upper middle tier over time, but this is where I see him currently. If Larry Lurr decides to refine his DK and keep him as an official secondary, expect him to be in low high tier.)
+ (He's low tier, but not bottom tier to me. He gets better results than Jigglypuff and Zelda. Shouldn't be lumped with them, IMO.)
+ (This may be controversial, but Mario is flat out winning tournaments or placing extremely high more than almost anyone else in the cast. He deserves to be tier 1, IMO. Ally only reinforces my belief and I think he's completely capable of taking a national.)

 

[DMWN]

I've never whined about Mario. I can't say if he's top 5 or not myself.

This response is just your way of trying to make a snappy comeback to save face so you don't have to explain yourself.

While I do agree @Feelicks can come off as pushy sometimes, your outspoken claims tend to offend anyone who dares oppose your beliefs. Feelicks has never (if so, perhaps only once) insulted anyone for not believing in Palutena--I happen to be one of the people who was once on the receiving end of one of his preaches, and yet I see you've caused more discomfort and concern in this thread than any other person here, and I'm sure several can attest to this. Sometimes you behave yourself, but it's more likely that you're going on some prolonged asinine rant about how wonderful or terrible a character is, often insulting others in the process. Hell, I think Lucas is top 25 whereas Feelicks disagrees completely, but you don't see us arguing about it. There needn't be any conversation on this thread anyway according to the original post, so why be so pushy and rude? It's not even so much that you're that much worse than Feelicks was, but the fact that he's been significantly less pushy and a lot politer than many of us in the past few months while you continue to call him out on it for doing nearly the same exact thing (see: your comment on Bayonetta being Tier 3) is grounds for calling you out.

You're not cute, you're not funny, and you're certainly not making yourself out to be very mature, so I suggest you cut it out with the attitude before you make more of an ass of yourself than you already have. And if I get infracted for this post, at least I can say it was worth it.

 

[Kaiduru Zeta]

Wow I'd never think to see so much arguing on this post but just wondering @Feelicks did you see my reasoning for DDD?

 

[Deleted member]

While I do agree @Feelicks can come off as pushy sometimes, your outspoken claims tend to offend anyone who dares oppose your beliefs. Feelicks has never (if so, perhaps only once) insulted anyone for not believing in Palutena--I happen to be one of the people who was once on the receiving end of one of his preaches, and yet I see you've caused more discomfort and concern in this thread than any other person here, and I'm sure several can attest to this. Sometimes you behave yourself, but it's more likely that you're going on some prolonged asinine rant about how wonderful or terrible a character is, often insulting others in the process. Hell, I think Lucas is top 25 whereas Feelicks disagrees completely, but you don't see us arguing about it. There needn't be any conversation on this thread anyway according to the original post, so why be so pushy and rude? It's not even so much that you're so much worse than Feelicks, but the fact that he's been significantly less pushy in the past few months while you continue to call him out on it for doing nearly the same exact thing (see: your comment on Bayonetta being Tier 3) is grounds for calling you out.

You're not cute, you're not funny, and you're certainly not making yourself out to be very mature, so I suggest you cut it out with the attitude before you make more of an *** of yourself than you already have. And if I get infracted for this post, at least I can say it was worth it.

This post has officially solidified why you're my favorite person in this entire thread. I know I can come off as aggressive and pushy sometimes, and I do apologize. I just get exasperated at people making the same tired claims about characters when they simply aren't true, so I'll cool down on that. I don't hate anybody for their thoughts on a character, nor have I insulted anybody for it. I understand low tiers don't get much exposure in this game and so misinformation is bound to be a thing, but I promise I'll take a less militant approach towards it.

Wow I'd never think to see so much arguing on this post but just wondering @Feelicks did you see my reasoning for DDD?

I did. I still disagree.

 

[420quickscoper]

+
-
+
I'm sure that many will disagree with me with Mewtwo being even higher. I just think that he's better than Pikachu, as from what I've seen, ESAM has a huge losing record and he's overall kind of inconsistent, if that's the right word.

 

[ShadowGuy1]

Calm down and respect opinions. You don't see me bashing on the people down voting my characters or if the upvote characters I disagree with. But alas, this is 2016 where no one agrees with anything and that is good at times,but when people take it too far, yeah no. I personally agree with DMWN on his view point, but that is all I will say

 

[Xandercosm]

You're not cute, you're not funny, and you're certainly not making yourself out to be very mature, so I suggest you cut it out with the attitude before you make more of an *** of yourself than you already have. And if I get infracted for this post, at least I can say it was worth it.

That was SUCH a cute little post there. I adore how you tried to act all smart and pretended that everyone agrees with you and thinks I'm a fool. You're not very mature yourself for that whole rant, though. You pretty much made no point there. I can see why Feelicks likes you so much since you always suck up to him.

+ (Still tier 1 worthy in my eyes. Her insane tools have not changed and she still gets worthy results to be there. Whether or not she's overblown remains to be seen, but she's up there, love it or hate it.)
- (Literally the only top player representing him right now is ESAM. Pikachu is nowhere near the anticipated huge threat everyone expected him to become. He's good, but not tier 2 good. He needs to drop ASAP.)
+ (With his ability to swing matches at a whim and instill fear in opponents, I feel he should be in tier 3. He has other advantages too like good overall mobility for a heavyweight. His placement will likely hover around high tier to upper middle tier over time, but this is where I see him currently. If Larry Lurr decides to refine his DK and keep him as an official secondary, expect him to be in low high tier.)
+ (He's low tier, but not bottom tier to me. He gets better results than Jigglypuff and Zelda. Shouldn't be lumped with them, IMO.)
+ (This may be controversial, but Mario is flat out winning tournaments or placing extremely high more than almost anyone else in the cast. He deserves to be tier 1, IMO. Ally only reinforces my belief and I think he's completely capable of taking a national.)

I completely agree with these votes. Encore!

 

[Galgatha]

Wow....the immaturity level of this thread is getting ridiculous, especially between Feelicks and Xandercosm. I mean seriously, do you guys have to seem to almost rip each-other's throats out during every voting period?

@Feelicks: Honestly from what I have seen in your posts, you seem to have close to a God complex, claiming everybody else's opinion is wrong, or ignorant, or just plain sh*tty especially when it comes to Palutena. Some people have not seen strong gameplay from her, some have. Also....i think you may need to find an actual wife >_> just saying...

Xandercosm : Stop poking at Feelicks, a few of your comments arent even masked, the blatant jabs at him. Also, mario, some people like him, some dont (like me) and dont believe that he should be as high up as he is. No need to take offense to it, as this is a open voting tier list.

anyway, Falco power, rant done.

 

[420quickscoper]

That was SUCH a cute little post there. I adore how you tried to act all smart and acted as if everyone agrees with you and thinks I'm a fool. You're not very mature yourself for that whole rant, though. You pretty much made no point there. I can see why Feelicks likes you so much since you always suck up to him.



I completely agree with these votes. Encore!

Sadly, you've only proved his point for him.

...let's just stop.

 

[Xandercosm]

Sadly, you've only proved his point for him.

...let's just stop.

Top kek

Wow....the immaturity level of this thread is getting ridiculous, especially between Feelicks and Xandercosm. I mean seriously, do you guys have to seem to almost rip each-other's throats out during every voting period?

@Feelicks: Honestly from what I have seen in your posts, you seem to have close to a God complex, claiming everybody else's opinion is wrong, or ignorant, or just plain sh*tty especially when it comes to Palutena. Some people have not seen strong gameplay from her, some have. Also....i think you may need to find an actual wife >_> just saying...

Xandercosm : Stop poking at Feelicks, a few of your comments arent even masked, the blatant jabs at him. Also, mario, some people like him, some dont (like me) and dont believe that he should be as high up as he is. No need to take offense to it, as this is a open voting tier list.

anyway, Falco power, rant done.

I actually have never complained about peoples' Mario downvotes. I've only asked why.

 

[420quickscoper]

Top kek



I actually have never complained about peoples' Mario downvotes. I've only asked why.

Well. I'm not sure what to make of that.

 

[Tizio Random]

+1
+1
+1
-1
-1

I don't know how Bayonetta ended up in Tier 3, she's is tier 1 along with all the other characters that are already in there

 

[TimG57867]

Yeesh. Once again this thread is showing its dark side.


Well, I am gonna wait a bit before voting. In the meantime (and in an attempt to get discussion productive again), I want to throw out a crazy proposal: Should we merge and into one character? One common trend I've noticed over the months since I started investing in this list is that Lucina dropping below Marth is one of the first things that catch people's attention and is quickly voted against. That makes me wonder, is their viability really different enough to justify them taking different spots? Yeah I know that Marth has the tipper but the consistency of Lucina's blade does seem like it can help at times. And aside from they're literally the same character as far as I am aware. I can't imagine the loss of the tipper being enough to allow several characters to be right between them on the tier list. And if we still have merged despite their several notable differences and the buffs DPit got, would it really be crazy to merge Marth and Lucina together as well? I feel like it would save a lot votes wasted on putting them close together. Just throwing out a proposal here.

 

[420quickscoper]

Yeesh. Once again this thread is showing its dark side.


Well, I am gonna wait a bit before voting. In the meantime (and in an attempt to get discussion productive again), I want to throw out a crazy proposal: Should we merge and into one character? One common trend I've noticed over the months since I started investing in this list is that Lucina dropping below Marth is one of the first things that catch people's attention and is quickly voted against. That makes me wonder, is their viability really different enough to justify them taking different spots? Yeah I know that Marth has the tipper but the consistency of Lucina's blade does seem like it can help at times. And aside from they're literally the same character as far as I am aware. I can't imagine the loss of the tipper being enough to allow several characters to be right between them on the tier list. And if we still have merged despite their several notable differences and the buffs DPit got, would it really be crazy to merge Marth and Lucina together as well? I feel like it would save a lot votes wasted on putting them close together. Just throwing out a proposal here.

I feel like the tipper mechanic is a bigger difference than Dark Pit and Pit having a few different moves. That's just my opinion, though.
I think they can be close together on a tier list, but I think merged would be a little bit of a stretch.
But, yes, they are pretty similar.

 

[Thetwinmasters]

+ Bayo
+ Fox
- Pikachu
- Mewtwo
- Lucas

 

[Munomario777]

For Marth and Lucina, perhaps a decent compromise could be that they're always in the same tier, but they're not fully combined? That way they're never a tier apart, but during the tier-ordering period they can still be decently far apart within that tier (since the tipper affects every move, and is a bigger difference than a couple of different move properties between the Pits).

 

[Bowserboy3]

Should we merge and into one character?

My opinion...

No, certainly not.

Though Marth and Lucina are very similar, unlike Pit and Dark Pit, they do have matchup specific differences. You choose between Pit and Dark Pit for different reasons, such as "Oh, I'll use DP because I want a strong kill move" or "I want Pit because I want a reliable kill move". These things are unrelated to matchups, but personal preference. Anything Pit can do, Dark Pit can also do, so it's down to which move in general you prefer.

For Marth and Lucina, each character has matchup specific benefits. For example, Marth can psuedo "hoo hah" a handful of the cast, and this works due to his tipper. Lucina cannot do this, because she lacks the tipper strength to be able to KO the opponent when Marth gets this to work, and as such, in general, the characters where Marth can perform this, are better for Marth. Certain matchups Marth and Lucina perform differently in too. Marth v Sheik is a great example. Sheik struggles to KO, giving Marth rage. As such, this only helps him, as his tipper becomes immensely powerful on lightweight Sheik, and his sourspots become stronger and safer on hit, essentially making his sourspot better at killing. What's more, he can still use his sourspot to combo under rage. Lucina's combos however, stop working a lot quicker than Marth's due to having no sourspot, so while she gets better KO power, she cannot safely rack up damage on Sheik as easily as Marth. On the flipside, Lucina can do more consistently in matchups where it can be harf for Marth to land a tipper, such as Sonic and Pikachu, or matchups like Dedede where Marth essentially must land a tipper to KO, Lucina doesn't have to, so in theory, can do more consistently. Of course, playing at perfect spacing for them both, Marth is noticeably safer, due to his tipper.

Both have different pro's and cons to different matchups, but in reality, while they are similar, picking one character in a certain matchup can affect the outcome, something that can't be said for Pit and Dark Pit.

Thanks for the good discussion topic though, good way to get things back on track.

 

[Stick Dude]

+1
-1
-1
+1
+1

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Yeesh. Once again this thread is showing its dark side.


Well, I am gonna wait a bit before voting. In the meantime (and in an attempt to get discussion productive again), I want to throw out a crazy proposal: Should we merge and into one character? One common trend I've noticed over the months since I started investing in this list is that Lucina dropping below Marth is one of the first things that catch people's attention and is quickly voted against. That makes me wonder, is their viability really different enough to justify them taking different spots? Yeah I know that Marth has the tipper but the consistency of Lucina's blade does seem like it can help at times. And aside from they're literally the same character as far as I am aware. I can't imagine the loss of the tipper being enough to allow several characters to be right between them on the tier list. And if we still have merged despite their several notable differences and the buffs DPit got, would it really be crazy to merge Marth and Lucina together as well? I feel like it would save a lot votes wasted on putting them close together. Just throwing out a proposal here.

Compared to Marth/Lucina, Pit/Dark Pit are the exact same character

 

[Turrin]

+ I continue my endeavor - man, do people just think Roy is the worst now, or what?
- Yet Mii sword-fighter is above him somehow. I cannot think of a single thing that any swordfighter build does better than Roy. More endlag. Slower startups and overall worse frame data. Less knockback on attacks. All three recovery options are worse than Roy's. Roy actually has good follow-ups (not many guarantees but great options) out of throws.
-
- They've gotten better, yeah. I'd still put them just a little lower, though. Top of the next tier down.
- Yeah, Samus. I want to pull for her - I do - but all the buffs really did were make her attacks work like normal, proper attacks. That doesn't fix the problems that she has in her overall build and playstyle.

 

[420quickscoper]

+ I continue my endeavor - man, do people just think Roy is the worst now, or what?
- Yet Mii sword-fighter is above him somehow. I cannot think of a single thing that any swordfighter build does better than Roy. More endlag. Slower startups and overall worse frame data. Less knockback on attacks. All three recovery options are worse than Roy's. Roy actually has good follow-ups (not many guarantees but great options) out of throws.
-
- They've gotten better, yeah. I'd still put them just a little lower, though. Top of the next tier down.
- Yeah, Samus. I want to pull for her - I do - but all the buffs really did were make her attacks work like normal, proper attacks. That doesn't fix the problems that she has in her overall build and playstyle.

I think people think that Roy is pretty bad is because he's overall a character that doesn't exactly work.
He's supposed to play rushdown, however:
1. His approach options and neutral are weak, especially approach options
2. There are a lot of characters who play that game better than he does.

Playing a spacing game with Roy isn't optimal either, as from what I've seen. He has short range, and his tipper moves really...
don't do anything?
I mean, I understand they're supposed to be weak, but their angle makes it so that the most you can get out of it is, a tech chase I suppose.

Let's look at all of Roy's flaws:
1. Lackluster neutral
2. Very few reliable approach options
3. Very easy to combo due to height and fall speed
4. Tippered moves that don't do anything
5. Horrendous end lag on some of his moves, and also landing lag
6. Non-threatening throw game
7. Subpar killing ability, as the only kill setups he has are like, jab to forward air/up air and even then those won't kill until high percents
8. No results at all

I think all that is enough to say that Roy is bottom 10, in my opinion.

At one point I thought Roy was bottom 5 and that may be a bit of a stretch, he does have some good moves but his design just really holds him back.

But, jeez. He has the results of a bottom 3 character. Literally nothing... just. Nothing. It's a shame.

 

[Xandercosm]

It's kind of surprising actually how little rep Roy has. In fact, the only thing that keeps him above bottom 3 is that he has slightly better theory than a couple of the characters around that area. But, he actually has less rep than a lot of bottom 10 characters. If he continues on this path he could, dare I say it, drop to bottom 5.

 

[420quickscoper]

It's kind of surprising actually how little rep Roy has. In fact, the only thing that keeps him above bottom 3 is that he has slightly better theory than a couple of the characters around that area. But, he actually has less rep than a lot of bottom 10 characters. If he continues on this path he could, dare I say it, drop to bottom 5.

I wouldn't be surprised if Roy actually has the least representation and results out of anybody in the game. Even less than Jigglypuff.
In that case...
-Roy

 

[Deleted member]

I wouldn't be surprised if Roy actually has the least representation and results out of anybody in the game. Even less than Jigglypuff.
In that case...
-Roy

Funnily enough, this is actually true.

@RDR7 is a Jiggs main ranked 7th on South Carolina PR, and is about to rise on the next season iteration of it. He's beaten players like Rango and Elin, and almost beat ESAM in a close set. CrazieCuban plays Puff here in FL, and Serynder some of you probably know from Xanadu. BrianYDG got 17th at Super Smash Con using Puff as well. She's still a terrible character, but she has at least some results.

 

[Turrin]

I think people think that Roy is pretty bad is because he's overall a character that doesn't exactly work.
He's supposed to play rushdown, however:
1. His approach options and neutral are weak, especially approach options
2. There are a lot of characters who play that game better than he does.

Playing a spacing game with Roy isn't optimal either, as from what I've seen. He has short range, and his tipper moves really...
don't do anything?
I mean, I understand they're supposed to be weak, but their angle makes it so that the most you can get out of it is, a tech chase I suppose.

Let's look at all of Roy's flaws:
1. Lackluster neutral
2. Very few reliable approach options
3. Very easy to combo due to height and fall speed
4. Tippered moves that don't do anything
5. Horrendous end lag on some of his moves, and also landing lag
6. Non-threatening throw game
7. Subpar killing ability, as the only kill setups he has are like, jab to forward air/up air and even then those won't kill until high percents
8. No results at all

I think all that is enough to say that Roy is bottom 10, in my opinion.

At one point I thought Roy was bottom 5 and that may be a bit of a stretch, he does have some good moves but his design just really holds him back.

But, jeez. He has the results of a bottom 3 character. Literally nothing... just. Nothing. It's a shame.

Yeah, I've always gotten the fact that his abilities weren't good, but I've never really thought of them as being straight up bad. Being bottom ten just makes him sound like a bad character to me, which I don't think he is. Some of that is probably just bias from me - because he feels ridiculously smooth and fast in my hands. I also have to respectfully disagree with his killing ability. His aerials and tilts are almost all kill moves, so you can get a kill with pretty much one air-dodge read at higher percents.
There are also still characters that I think are only higher because people play them more out of popularity (like don't kill me). And still!? Anyway, if I'm just doomed to have an unpopular opinion, that's fine. If anything, I'm gonna start playing him more now.

 

[420quickscoper]

Funnily enough, this is actually true.

@RDR7 is a Jiggs main ranked 7th on South Carolina PR, and is about to rise on the next season iteration of it. He's beaten players like Rango and Elin, and almost beat ESAM in a close set. BrianYDG got 17th at Super Smash Con using Puff as well.

Well, that's good to know that I'm right.


What if Roy is the worst character, and instead of being ranked 58th, the worst, he's ranked 59th, worse than the worst?
Eh. Whatever.

I honestly could see Roy as bad as Zelda. Like, sure, Zelda is bad, but at least her design works.
I mean, she doesn't fit in the metagame, but there's a difference.
Take for example Ganondorf, he does what he is supposed to do well.
Does Roy?
Sadly not.

Yeah, I've always gotten the fact that his abilities weren't good, but I've never really thought of them as being straight up bad. Being bottom ten just makes him sound like a bad character to me, which I don't think he is. Some of that is probably just bias from me - because he feels ridiculously smooth and fast in my hands. I also have to respectfully disagree with his killing ability. His aerials and tilts are almost all kill moves, so you can get a kill with pretty much one air-dodge read at higher percents.
There are also still characters that I think are only higher because people play them more out of popularity (like don't kill me). And still!? Anyway, if I'm just doomed to have an unpopular opinion, that's fine. If anything, I'm gonna start playing him more now.

And, yet, you seem to fail to recognize what I said above.
Yes, he has superb mobility, but with such a weak neutral and approach options... his speed really isn't that useful, honestly.

I once, thought, too, that Roy was a good killer.
You are right that his aerials and tilts kill, however.
Roy has very few setups into his kill options, and, like you said, requires a read.
If you are a character with very little kill setups or kill confirms and you have to completely rely on a read to kill, then you are probably bad at killing.

"Roy is the best swordsman, he has speed, power, and combos." A ZeRo video way back then
All of us know that Roy was never, ever the best swordsman, even before the likes of Cloud and others.
Having speed, power and combos don't mean anything when you can not use them as well as other characters can.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Spoiler

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-1 People just think Link should be here because they either don't know how bad his flaws are for so little strength, or just don't want to admit Link is bad yet again.

-1I'm surprised nobody has noticed this yet. Samus doesn't have the theory to be this good, nor the matchup spread or results. She got voted a little too much a few period ago and then nobody bothered to vote her down.

+1What the hell??? Pac-Man's projectile tricks, being hard to approach when going aganist him ,his good specials, jab, dash attack, and aierals, pretty good smashes, good recovery, and pretty good matchup spread for a high tier (Assuming high tier is like tiers 3 and 4; people have differant prespectives.) makes me think this is defitenly way off.

+1You know what I want to say.

-1 Holy crap when are people gonna realize that his matchup spread is terrible for a high tier and that his theory and results aren't even THIS good either.

I might replace a vote with a up vote too, since I'm worried people might down vote him and he'll end up too low. But I'll risk it for now.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, that's good to know that I'm right.


What if Roy is the worst character, and instead of being ranked 58th, the worst, he's ranked 59th, worse than the worst?
Eh. Whatever.

I honestly could see Roy as bad as Zelda. Like, sure, Zelda is bad, but at least her design works.
I mean, she doesn't fit in the metagame, but there's a difference.
Take for example Ganondorf, he does what he is supposed to do well.
Does Roy?
Sadly not.



And, yet, you seem to fail to recognize what I said above.
Yes, he has superb mobility, but with such a weak neutral and approach options... his speed really isn't that useful, honestly.

I once, thought, too, that Roy was a good killer.
You are right that his aerials and tilts kill, however.
Roy has very few setups into his kill options, and, like you said, requires a read.
If you are a character with very little kill setups or kill confirms and you have to completely rely on a read to kill, then you are probably bad at killing.

Like somebody said before, Roy's mess of a design is only somewhat saved by his mobility. Even then despite having the fourth best air speed in the game, it's screwed over by godawful air acceleration (0.03).

Zelda got 9th at a regional here in FL that had 150+ entrants called Come to Papa on a solo run, which is also more than anything Roy has pulled off lol

 

[420quickscoper]

Like somebody said before, Roy's mess of a design is only somewhat saved by his mobility. Even then despite having the fourth best air speed in the game, it's screwed over by godawful air acceleration (0.03).

Zelda got 9th at a regional here in FL that had 150+ entrants called Come to Papa on a solo run, which is also more than anything Roy has pulled off lol

Yeah.
At one point I actually considered Roy to nearly be the worst character in the game due to his messy design and nothing results, just...
He's only saved from a few things.