Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[Xandercosm]

Everyone here(in this thread atleast)could make a better tier list(that's also not confusing)

Buuuurn.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Anyway, I think we can all agree that it was a really rushed, badly designed tier list. I really just hope they fix it after the update is released.

Agreed. Though it is nice to have some groundwork, have some sand laid down so to speak, I think I will at least accept this tier list better when I see Jigglypuff in last, Marth a bit closer to Roy, and Rosalina out of the S tier and in A tier. Samus should be a bit higher too, but really, I think the other three things need addressing more.

 

[Xandercosm]

Agreed. Though it is nice to have some groundwork, have some sand laid down so to speak, I think I will at least accept this tier list better when I see Jigglypuff in last, Marth a bit closer to Roy, and Rosalina out of the S tier and in A tier. Samus should be a bit higher too, but really, I think the other three things need addressing more.

I actually think the worst part was the fact that the lettered tiers are so messed up. The letters go down to J and mid-tier is smaller than America's middle class. Also, they put top 15 characters in mid-tier. So, yeah, someone needs to just shoot this list so it can be put out of its misery.

 

[lbrasz44]

I'm not too annoyed by the tier lettering because they still designated what was top, high etc. But I am wondering why that they couldn't wait for Bayo and Corrin. Literally a day from now, and the patch could makes it irrelevant so I completely agree with Zero saying its too early to put one out.

Other than that, Wario and ROB are in the right place I'd say, definitely in the 15-25 range so no complaints there, but Samus should be at least where DDD and Lucina is. The placing for Cloud is pretty reasonable too given that he has had the best start out of all the dlc characters and has more results in his short lifespan that most of the roster has had since release.

 

[Bowserboy3]

I actually think the worst part was the fact that the lettered tiers are so messed up. The letters go down to J and mid-tier is smaller than America's middle class. Also, they put top 15 characters in mid-tier. So, yeah, someone needs to just shoot this list so it can be put out of its misery.

That is actually pretty deep...

But yes, I also agree with the tier lettering to some degree. D tier, though mid tier, does indeed sound... meh, when infact most/all of the characters in there are really good. Even Brawl's list used + and - to help with the lettering. I just think that going all the way down to J is a bit excessive. Brawl got it right by stopping at F.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Rosalina is NOT an S-tier character by any means. Remember that her offensive game is heavily hindered while she's Lumaless, and considering that it's quite easy to KO the Luma, that really requires all Rosalina users to keep the Luma safe.

That's a flaw that Sheik and Zero Suit Samus do not have to worry about at all.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Rosalina is NOT an S-tier character by any means. Remember that her offensive game is heavily hindered while she's Lumaless, and considering that it's quite easy to KO the Luma, that really requires all Rosalina users to keep the Luma safe.

That's a flaw that Sheik and Zero Suit Samus do not have to worry about at all.

This. I'm glad other Rosalina mains are also saying the same thing.

I have no problem with her 3rd place position. But she should be at the top of A tier, not in S tier.

 

[Xandercosm]

That is actually pretty deep...

But yes, I also agree with the tier lettering to some degree. D tier, though mid tier, does indeed sound... meh, when infact most/all of the characters in there are really good. Even Brawl's list used + and - to help with the lettering. I just think that going all the way down to J is a bit excessive. Brawl got it right by stopping at F.

Just simply adding + and - tiers and fixing mid-tier would make the list worlds better.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

This. I'm glad other Rosalina mains are also saying the same thing.

I have no problem with her 3rd place position. But she should be at the top of A tier, not in S tier.

Agreed right there. Still, there are a few more things about that list that I do have to question, such as with Lucina, where I feel that she's being underestimated, and Wario seems to be a bit too low himself.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Agreed right there. Still, there are a few more things about that list that I do have to question, such as with Lucina, where I feel that she's being underestimated, and Wario seems to be a bit too low himself.

I feel both Marth and Lucina are being underestimated. But hey, Marth buffs are coming on Thursday (albeit, only two confirmed buffs). Maybe we can get a Mewtwo situation going on.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

Lol. The voters will block any constructive criticism. They did that to me too Browny

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I feel both Marth and Lucina are being underestimated. But hey, Marth buffs are coming on Thursday (albeit, only two confirmed buffs). Maybe we can get a Mewtwo situation going on.

And while Lucina may lack the KO power that Marth has with his tipped hits, there is less risk with using Lucina's attacks, thanks to the fact that her sword doesn't require any sweetspots to deliver the best possible results.

 

[lbrasz44]

Agreed right there. Still, there are a few more things about that list that I do have to question, such as with Lucina, where I feel that she's being underestimated, and Wario seems to be a bit too low himself.

Wario certainly should get moved up a couple positions as well, but he's definitely in the right area.Considering who is in top 15 and the fact that he struggles against a lot of the high tiers, the top of mid is his home

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

I feel both Marth and Lucina are being underestimated. But hey, Marth buffs are coming on Thursday (albeit, only two confirmed buffs). Maybe we can get a Mewtwo situation going on.

What confirmed buffs? Are you talking about the analysis you did on the umbra clock tower? Also Nairo said that he didn't notice any nerfs to some top tiers. He got to play the patch early. It's on the competitive forum

 

[Bowserboy3]

What confirmed buffs? Are you talking about the analysis you did on the umbra clock tower? Also Nairo said that he didn't notice any nerfs to some top tiers. He got to play the patch early. It's on the competitive forum

Me, and a bunch of the other great people in the Marth boards, spotted some changes.


After breaking it down, we can almost guarantee that;

- Fair tipper damage increased from 10% to 12%. Possibility that sourspot increased also from 7% to 9%.
- Uair tipper damage increased from 12% to either 13/14%. Possibility that sourspot increased from 9% to 10/11%.


Other possibilities (though I am calling placebo on these);

- Bair getting the same buffs as Uair, as sourspot Bair dealt 10% in the video, rather than 9%. Could have just been decimals carrying over.
- Dash Attack, Fsmash and Nair have slightly increased range.
- Dancing Blade (first strike) has less endlag.


He didn't use any throws in the video, but I am keeping my fingers crossed for throw buffs. Either way, the damage increases will actually help him a lot. The extra damage will not only allow him to rack up damage easier, but also make combos more reliable, as more damage = more hitstun. Assuming that BKB and KBG are untouched too, his tipped aerial moves will have very nice kill potential too, thanks to the increased damage. I'm most excited about the Fair buff though. Fair get's used a lot when playing Marth, intentional or unintentional. It's still a great move, even though it's more limited now, and so, it stales easily. Getting between 5-8% for landing sourspots/tippers is very sad. The increased damage should mean we shouldn't be getting so low damage values anymore.

 

[Xandercosm]

What confirmed buffs? Are you talking about the analysis you did on the umbra clock tower? Also Nairo said that he didn't notice any nerfs to some top tiers. He got to play the patch early. It's on the competitive forum

Why the hell would he get to play it early?

 

[LRodC]

I wouldn't put too much stock into what Nairo says right now because I doubt he had much time with the build he was playing on. Just wait until the patch comes out.

 

[TimG57867]

I am surprised that a lot of people here think this will be the very last patch. Was it ever explicitly said that they won't touch this game again after it hits? I know they won't patch it forever and will likely be rapping it up this year, but I'd like to think they would do at least one more patch after this one to take care of anything unexpected that arises. I mean we're getting two new characters. I'd be shocked if there wasn't anything to refine after this update.

 

[Xandercosm]

I am surprised that a lot of people here think this will be the very last patch. Was it ever explicitly said that they won't touch this game again after it hits? I know they won't patch it forever and will likely be rapping it up this year, but I'd like to think they would do at least one more patch after this one to take care of anything unexpected that arises. I mean we're getting two new characters. I'd be shocked if there wasn't anything to refine after this update.

He literally said that this was the final update. I don't know why people still say that there may be more. It's over.

 

[TimG57867]

He literally said that this was the final update. I don't know why people still say that there may be more. It's over.

Could you link the quote? I know he said no more DLC, but did he explicitly say no more updates in general? Much appreciated.

 

[C3CC]

And the difference between being S tier or A tier is...? Isn't it the same? Aren't you just asigned a number and that's it? Someone please explain it to me.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

And the difference between being S tier or A tier is...? Isn't it the same? Aren't you just asigned a number and that's it? Someone please explain it to me.

S-tier is for those who have negligible weaknesses. A-tier is for the very viable fighters, but their noticeable (and exploitable) weaknesses end up keeping them away from the S-tier.

Rosalina's weaknesses are NOT negligible by any means, as she needs the Luma to keep her offensive game strong; without it, her offense is heavily hindered.

 

[FamilyTeam]

Yeah, there are plenty of things I disagree about with that list, but they have all been listed here. The position of some characters are very debatable, the position of the tiers themselves is odd (If you do rounding, we have approximately 60 characters in this game. Why does MID tier start with the 13th character? And why do we have Top 15 characters in Mid Tier, anyway?), Marth and Lucie are being underestimated, the position of a few people in Mid, Low and Bottom kind of disturbs me, etc.

 

[Xandercosm]

I think they should make a new official tier list with a different letter tier for every character. Once they run out of letters they can move on to numbers.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I think they should make a new official tier list with a different letter tier for every character. Once they run out of letters they can move on to numbers.

Anything that's set up differently

 

[Xandercosm]

Anything that's set up differently

It was a joke.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

It was a joke.

I DON'T CARE!. And now I do...

 

[C3CC]

I have another question, pure curiosity. Why is the S the first letter in the tier list, and after that it starts going in the right order (A, B, C, D, etc)? Do the letters stand for something in specific?

Thanks!

 

[atreyujames]

Ive always assumed that S stood for Superior or Super and SS stood for Super Saiyan

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Super Saiyan Tier Confirmed Then...?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I have another question, pure curiosity. Why is the S the first letter in the tier list, and after that it starts going in the right order (A, B, C, D, etc)? Do the letters stand for something in specific?

Thanks!

The S-rank is often considered to be superior to the A-rank in certain games. One example of such a game is Excitebots: Trick Racing.

 

[Bowserboy3]

The S-rank is often considered to be superior to the A-rank in certain games. One example of such a game is Excitebots: Trick Racing.

Another example would be Sonic and All Stars Racing Transformed, where S class is a racing speed, being faster than A class, B class and C class. Sonic games also commonly use S as the top rank for clearing a stage, being higher than A rank.

In general, it stands for "superior" or "special".

 

[Xandercosm]

I actually have been wondering about that for a while, myself. Now I know.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Another example would be Sonic and All Stars Racing Transformed, where S class is a racing speed, being faster than A class, B class and C class. Sonic games also commonly use S as the top rank for clearing a stage, being higher than A rank.

In general, it stands for "superior" or "special".

That's only true with Sonic the Hedgehog 2006 and the later Sonic installments. The GameCube era Sonic titles (such as Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog) had the A-rank be the best ranking to get.

 

[Xandercosm]

That's only true with Sonic the Hedgehog 2006 and the later Sonic installments. The GameCube era Sonic titles (such as Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog) had the A-rank be the best ranking to get.

But Sanic wasn't satisfied with just "A". He had to go faster. Because no one else would.

 

[Furret24]

That's only true with Sonic the Hedgehog 2006 and the later Sonic installments. The GameCube era Sonic titles (such as Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog) had the A-rank be the best ranking to get.

I believe Sonic Rush also had the S-rank, which predated 06 by a year. Probably the first Sonic game to use it.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I believe Sonic Rush also had the S-rank, which predated 06 by a year. Probably the first Sonic game to use it.

Meaning Nintendo/Sega did it first(Sonic should probably stick with Nintendo and Mobile/PC)

 

[Vyrnx]

Me, and a bunch of the other great people in the Marth boards, spotted some changes.


After breaking it down, we can almost guarantee that;

- Fair tipper damage increased from 10% to 12%. Possibility that sourspot increased also from 7% to 9%.
- Uair tipper damage increased from 12% to either 13/14%. Possibility that sourspot increased from 9% to 10/11%.


Other possibilities (though I am calling placebo on these);

- Bair getting the same buffs as Uair, as sourspot Bair dealt 10% in the video, rather than 9%. Could have just been decimals carrying over.
- Dash Attack, Fsmash and Nair have slightly increased range.
- Dancing Blade (first strike) has less endlag.


He didn't use any throws in the video, but I am keeping my fingers crossed for throw buffs. Either way, the damage increases will actually help him a lot. The extra damage will not only allow him to rack up damage easier, but also make combos more reliable, as more damage = more hitstun. Assuming that BKB and KBG are untouched too, his tipped aerial moves will have very nice kill potential too, thanks to the increased damage. I'm most excited about the Fair buff though. Fair get's used a lot when playing Marth, intentional or unintentional. It's still a great move, even though it's more limited now, and so, it stales easily. Getting between 5-8% for landing sourspots/tippers is very sad. The increased damage should mean we shouldn't be getting so low damage values anymore.

Nair looked like it had significantly more range, that or they just changed the animation. These Marth buffs are exciting.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Nair looked like it had significantly more range, that or they just changed the animation. These Marth buffs are exciting.

Hmm, after comparing some old videos, I still think it's the camera angle, though if it really does have more range, that'd be cool. Really though, his aerials need better AC frames/less landing lag.

I thought more about tipper Uair getting more damage. Assuming that that BKB and KBG are untouched, falling Uair into tipper Uair could kill at about just over 90%. That would be a really nice option for Marth.

 

[Xandercosm]

Well, I can't wait to get back to voting. It's been too long!