Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[ShadowGuy1]

IMO this is mine:
S:
A+:


Villager and Diddy can be swapped, same with Mario and Sonic.

Fixed mine lol I forgot Meta Knight

 

[Djmarcus44]

I think that Mii Gunner will move up the tier list considerably. ROM did better than expected at Genesis (97th when he was not expected to make it out of the first pool). He also got 9th in Wombo Wednesday, a 129 man tournament that had some great players such as Komorikiri, Ranai, 9B, and Ally.
He tied for Ninth out of of 129 entrants! (This link has the placings for Wombo Wednesday).

 

[AvengerV]

Fixed mine lol I forgot Meta Knight

you also forgot Pikachu

 

[TMNTSSB4]

nah man. we gotta have P A T I E N C E. We're only a month away, yo

I kinda started something...kinda(the wait is bad, but better than the Baeonetta struggle)

I have said it before and I still say that Pit and Dark Pit should never be separated, even after Dark Pit's buffs. They are so similar that it makes no sense to see other characters between them. People have been picking up Dpit after the buff and many think he is better than Pit now. I just don't see how Pit could be any higher on a tier list.

Pit got dem positive tournament results(and has some tourney wins under his belt...aswell as the Pitty Factor)and arrows. He earned the right to move up a few spots(like he did in Japan)

 

[Dusk Pit]

Pit got dem positive tournament results(and has some tourney wins under his belt...aswell as the Pitty Factor)and arrows. He earned the right to move up a few spots(like he did in Japan)

You can't just randomly move the other character above the other everytime they do well in tourneys. When was Nairo's Dark Pit higher on a tier list than Pit when he won tourneys?

You gotta look the whole picture here, not just tourney results. They are two sides of the same coin and thus share the same tier spot unless the other gets a huge buff which kinda already happened in Dark Pit's case... I still think they are equal though.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Can anybody find YouTube videos for Genesis 3? Don't want to go through the entire streams to find stuff and I can only find top 8. For me to make my next tier list (Right now I only have a prediction; If anyone is interested, let me know), I need Regi, Hyuga, etc.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I have said it before and I still say that Pit and Dark Pit should never be separated, even after Dark Pit's buffs. They are so similar that it makes no sense to see other characters between them. People have been picking up Dpit after the buff and many think he is better than Pit now. I just don't see how Pit could be any higher on a tier list.

I guess in a way, it depends on whether or not Upperdash Arm is superior to Electroshock Arm, or the other way around. Both of those moves are different in terms of knockback after all.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

You can't just randomly move the other character above the other everytime they do well in tourneys. When was Nairo's Dark Pit higher on a tier list than Pit when he won tourneys?

You gotta look the whole picture here, not just tourney results. They are two sides of the same coin and thus share the same tier spot unless the other gets a huge buff which kinda already happened in Dark Pit's case... I still think they are equal though.

That's because usually both Pits are used at the same tourney(and Nairo barely uses Pittoo anymore, so you can't use that excuse anymore). Plus, whenever Nairo won a tournament with Dark Pit, he won another with Pit. And there's also the fact that he doesn't go through a whole major tournament with Pittoo like he does Zero Suit(Earth goes through entire tourneys with only Pit, Pink Fresh has gone through whole tournaments with only Pit. Nairo hasn't done that...ever...like, ever ever)

Pikachu, Meta Knight, and Ike have all moved up the tier lists just because of one person playing them to the max(ESAM, Ryo, Leo). Ranai has done the exact same thing with his excellent Villager. If they can all get away with it, so can ze Pit over da Dark Pit.

Also Mario & Sonic Guy Arrows...arrows can change their game alot

 

[Routa]

Hmmm... I'm not sure if we should order characters within tiers. I mean we already have hard time placing characters within correct tiers so nitpicking on character A being in front of character B is a bit too much for now.

What you need to have to be in tier A? Should we count doubles too? How should Miis be treated? Theory or results?

I also agree with Pit(s) being placed in one spot instead of separating them.

 

[Xandercosm]

Here's mine:

S:
A+:

I dropped Ness because I really don't think he deserves to be in this tier. I'd say the top of A tier makes more sense (or tier 3, if you want to call it that).

 

[Deleted member]

Here's mine:

S:
A+:

I dropped Ness because I really don't think he deserves to be in this tier. I'd say the top of A tier makes more sense (or tier 3, if you want to call it that).

So a character that usually makes it into top 12 or 32 at tournaments with multiple players representing him doesn't deserve to be in tier 2? Gorl, pls.

 

[ShadowGuy1]

So a character that usually makes it into top 12 or 32 at tournaments with multiple players representing him doesn't deserve to be in tier 2? Gorl, pls.

Top 8 at Genesis as well

 

[Bowserboy3]

Ok, here is what I would put for the top two tiers

S:
A:

The first 4 and Ness are in order, the others could do with solid placements, but it's about right.

I might have a look at the whole roster, take everything into account and post my opinion of a current tier list tomorrow.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I'm to lazy to put them in order
S:
A+:

Reminder, so noone complains like in the past, no order

 

[ShadowGuy1]

Ok we have a code red, no really it legit is a code red. Ally said he is going to main Sheik/ZSS on twitter, but making mario his secondary for certain matchups. Thoughts?

 

[Wintermelon43]

Ok we have a code red, no really it legit is a code red. Ally said he is going to main Sheik/ZSS on twitter, but making mario his secondary for certain matchups. Thoughts?

Mario is going to become high tier or bottom of top tier in the future.

I bet "Certain Matchups" is just Pikachu

 

[Deleted member]

Basically for mine: Shiek and Zero suit then everyone else.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Ok we have a code red, no really it legit is a code red. Ally said he is going to main Sheik/ZSS on twitter, but making mario his secondary for certain matchups. Thoughts?

That's...horrible(Anti might become the only best Mario main, filling in two spots now). Everyone wants to play Shiek/ZSS now don't they?

 

[A10theHero]

Not ESAM it seems. He's dropping Yoshi for Cloud.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Not ESAM it seems. He's dropping Yoshi for Cloud.

Never knew ESAM played Yoshi

 

[Dusk Pit]

That's because usually both Pits are used at the same tourney(and Nairo barely uses Pittoo anymore, so you can't use that excuse anymore). Plus, whenever Nairo won a tournament with Dark Pit, he won another with Pit. And there's also the fact that he doesn't go through a whole major tournament with Pittoo like he does Zero Suit(Earth goes through entire tourneys with only Pit, Pink Fresh has gone through whole tournaments with only Pit. Nairo hasn't done that...ever...like, ever ever)

Pikachu, Meta Knight, and Ike have all moved up the tier lists just because of one person playing them to the max(ESAM, Ryo, Leo). Ranai has done the exact same thing with his excellent Villager. If they can all get away with it, so can ze Pit over da Dark Pit.

Also Mario & Sonic Guy Arrows...arrows can change their game alot

I get it that you want to see Pit higher because he performed well but that I don't get why you are so eager to separate them... and in Pit's favor. (you are just obviously ignoring the buffs)

Also it's not wise to compare them to someone like MK. These 2 are almost the same character so why wouldn't the other move as well? As if you said Olimar should move up the tier list but Alph shouldn't just because Olimar was the one to perform well. If you can play Pit, you can play Dark Pit as well, and don't say arrows change their gameplay notably, cause they don't. I could say the same about their side b.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I get it that you want to see Pit higher because he performed well but that I don't get why you are so eager to separate them... and in Pit's favor. (you are just obviously ignoring the buffs)

Also it's not wise to compare them to someone like MK. These 2 are almost the same character so why wouldn't the other move as well? As if you said Olimar should move up the tier list but Alph shouldn't just because Olimar was the one to perform well. If you can play Pit, you can play Dark Pit as well, and don't say arrows change their gameplay notably, cause they don't. I could say the same about their side b.

Last time I checked, arrows are way more important than any of the arms. Pit, unlike Dark Pit, can easily gimp a man with the weakest of arrows. Sure you can play both Pits, but the original got more results, a more balanced MU sheet,*a better personality*, etc. So immature just ask you one last question about this specific topic, and I don't expect you to answer(unless you're just waiting for me to finish this specific comment, like a creeper or whatever those green bomb things are called from Minecraft)but...How the hell do you not see the impotence of arrows? Anything afterwards is me replying to the rest of your post...anyways

•You saying I'm ignoring the buffs for Pittoo makes me think you're only saying everything you've said I based on just an Electrobuff.

•Did...did you really use an alternativery costume as an example? Please tell me that you didn't just say that Pit and Meta Knight are the same characters? Because Alph is a bad example, while Pit/Meta Knight are pretty much nothing alike(besides them being Sakurai's kids of course).

•Why do you, out of all the other Pit mains who think the two should be seperated(even if it's by 1 or 2 spaces)or Pit's better in general, only have arguments with me? All it took was an electrobuff for Dark Pit for me to even notice you(since I'm always more focused on the Pit instead of the edge)and vice versa for you to all of a sudden have alot of arguments over/about/for Pit vs Dark Pit("Pit's better", "Dark Pit still needs some results once again if he wants people to actually use him in major tournaments and not be seen as just an edgy Pit", etc.); Everytime, while I back myself up with more than just Arrows or Upperdash, you always bring up the Electroshock and how much Dark Pit is edgy and awesome and edgy again(sure there's the whole "Pit and Dark Pit are still fully equal to eachother", but...not really anymore). Can we just have a normal *Non Dark Pit vs Pit Related* conversation about...normal things instead of Pit vs Dark Pit conversation #9001?


this is where I drop the mic,but there isn't a mic to be dropped,it's quite sad how the mic is gone,I bet that anyone who reads this,won't notice the color pattern,that I currently have going on,up in here up in here.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Ok we have a code red, no really it legit is a code red. Ally said he is going to main Sheik/ZSS on twitter, but making mario his secondary for certain matchups. Thoughts?

Really? I used to have so much fun rooting for Ally, because he played Mario. Can't see myself cheering for him any more. This is saddening, really unfortunate. Says a lot about the future of our metagame when players feel they have no option but to turn to Sheik/ZSS...

I picked up a lot of my Mario play from him. I sincerely hope that he keeps playing Mario more than whoever else he decides to pick up. I wouldn't mind if he used one of them occasionally, but he really should stick with Mario.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I get it that you want to see Pit higher because he performed well but that I don't get why you are so eager to separate them... and in Pit's favor. (you are just obviously ignoring the buffs)

Also it's not wise to compare them to someone like MK. These 2 are almost the same character so why wouldn't the other move as well? As if you said Olimar should move up the tier list but Alph shouldn't just because Olimar was the one to perform well. If you can play Pit, you can play Dark Pit as well, and don't say arrows change their gameplay notably, cause they don't. I could say the same about their side b.

The funny thing is, Alph isn't even a separate character.

Anyway, the main focus between Pit and Dark Pit is just determining which side special move is the superior one. This is especially notable with certain match-ups, where against Rosalina, Dark Pit can contain the Luma more easily than Pit.

 

[Xandercosm]

Ok we have a code red, no really it legit is a code red. Ally said he is going to main Sheik/ZSS on twitter, but making mario his secondary for certain matchups. Thoughts?

He was my favorite smasher and I considered him to be the standard of competitive Mario play. He's dead to me now.

 

[Furret24]

What's so horrible about Ally playing who he wants? Sure, it's a shame that he won't be playing Mario much anymore, but is that a reason for him to be dead to you?

 

[Bowserboy3]

Ok, so after a bit of analysis and thought, here is my current opinion on the cast of characters (mainly based upon changes bought about in 1.1.3, but Genesis 3 also played a part in certain characters).

S:

A:

B:

C:

D:

E:

F:

There seems to be a lot more characters edging towards the middle now (examples include Mewtwo and Bowser). I was thinking of placing Ness at the top of B tier, but he still is a rather common face in competitive play, and still places relatively well, even with his abysmal matchup with Rosalina.

 

[Xandercosm]

What's so horrible about Ally playing who he wants? Sure, it's a shame that he won't be playing Mario much anymore, but is that a reason for him to be dead to you?

He's showing us where this game's meta is going. Because it seems like everyone is moving to Sheik/ZSS and forgetting about every other cast member. Basically, this game is going to be another nightmare where only 2 characters are worth playing. It's disgusting in my opinion. Now he's just one of the crowd of faceless Sheik/ZSS players that nobody will ever care about.

 

[Deleted member]

Ok, so after a bit of analysis and thought, here is my current opinion on the cast of characters (mainly based upon changes bought about in 1.1.3, but Genesis 3 also played a part in certain characters).

S:

A:

B:

C:

D:

E:

F:

There seems to be a lot more characters edging towards the middle now (examples include Mewtwo and Bowser). I was thinking of placing Ness at the top of B tier, but he still is a rather common face in competitive play, and still places relatively well, even with his abysmal matchup with Rosalina.

>Dedede worse than Ganon and 1111 Gunner

lol

Also, Robin is significantly better than Marthcina and Roy.

 

[Bowserboy3]

>Dedede worse than Ganon and 1111 Gunner

lol

Also, Robin is significantly better than Marthcina and Roy.

I placed Gunner above Dedede because IIRC there is a Gunner player (can't remember who), who recently placed in the top 10 in a rather large tournament (I think it was over 100 players). Some of the stuff 1111 Gunner can do is pretty sick.

And I just feel that any more patches that go by where Dedede doesn't get buffed and he will continue to fall. I think that the few changes Ganon received are enough to edge him out over Dedede.

And regarding Robin, it really depends. I have seen people who think he is in the top 20ish (ESAM I believe thinks this), and others who think he is terrible (I'm pretty sure there is a user who comes here quite often votes Robin down for example). Me personally, I think he's relatively standard. A great zoner/harasser but has some terrible matchups due to his abysmal movement. To be fair, I can see why you think he would be better than Marth and Roy, but significantly better? I can't see that. I suppose it depends what you mean by significantly. If I was being nice, I would put him maybe above DK, but no higher.

Anyway, we need to play again soon. I need to see some more Dedede action.

 

[Deleted member]

I placed Gunner above Dedede because IIRC there is a Gunner player (can't remember who), who recently placed in the top 10 in a rather large tournament (I think it was over 100 players). Some of the stuff 1111 Gunner can do is pretty sick.

And I just feel that any more patches that go by where Dedede doesn't get buffed and he will continue to fall. I think that the few changes Ganon received are enough to edge him out over Dedede.

And regarding Robin, it really depends. I have seen people who think he is in the top 20ish (ESAM I believe thinks this), and others who think he is terrible (I'm pretty sure there is a user who comes here quite often votes Robin down for example). Me personally, I think he's relatively standard. A great zoner/harasser but has some terrible matchups due to his abysmal movement. To be fair, I can see why you think he would be better than Marth and Roy, but significantly better? I can't see that. I suppose it depends what you mean by significantly. If I was being nice, I would put him maybe above DK, but no higher.

Anyway, we need to play again soon. I need to see some more Dedede action.

What does Ganon do better than Dedede when Dedede is better at spacing, has much more rewarding followups out of a grab, a long-distanced recovery that's hard to edgeguard while Ganon's is absolutely abysmal, and a projectile with deadly options at the ledge? Dedede at least has players that make impressions at large tournaments, like Big D's 17th placing at Paragon and CaptainVul getting 33rd at Dismantle 2. I can't say the same for Ganon. He's nonexistent at majors for a reason.

Robin is better than both definitely, and has a bigger playerbase and better tournament results than both characters.

 

[Routa]

What does Ganon do better than Dedede when Dedede is better at spacing, has much more rewarding followups out of a grab, a long-distanced recovery that's hard to edgeguard while Ganon's is absolutely abysmal, and a projectile with deadly options at the ledge?

Superior punish game, better footsies game, better edgeguarding game and he is better at killing and... He doesn't get ****ed by his own moves *stares at Gordon*. I think Ganondorf is a bit better than DDD in theory (and if we count customs and doubles) than DDD even when results show otherwise. But once again theory vs results.

I can see Marth and Lucina being in the same tier as Robin only if we count doubles and customs, but having Roy there is a bit... Well you know my opinion about him...

 

[TMNTSSB4]

The funny thing is, Alph isn't even a separate character.

Anyway, the main focus between Pit and Dark Pit is just determining which side special move is the superior one. This is especially notable with certain match-ups, where against Rosalina, Dark Pit can contain the Luma more easily than Pit.

If it weren't for the fact that Pit's arrows are so much better than Dark Pit's, then I'd disagree with you. Though both are important depending on the matchups.

 

[Deleted member]

Superior punish game, better footsies game, better edgeguarding game and he is better at killing and... He doesn't get ****ed by his own moves *stares at Gordon*. I think Ganondorf is a bit better than DDD in theory (and if we count customs and doubles) than DDD even when results show otherwise. But once again theory vs results.

I can see Marth and Lucina being in the same tier as Robin only if we count doubles and customs, but having Roy there is a bit... Well you know my opinion about him...

Customs aren't really relevant nowadays, and I disagree with Ganon being better in doubles than Dedede. Dedede is a genuinely great doubles character, even if Ganon is good in the field in his own right.

Ganon definitely beats Dedede in the edgeguarding and punishing department, but he can't really afford to go deep (though one could say he really doesn't need to) offstage due to his poor recovery, and Dedede is at a much greater advantage when he has a stock lead compared to Ganon because of how hard he is to kill.

 

[wedl!!]

Here we see people argue about the placement of irrelevant low tier heavies while the list has Pika and Mario in top 5 in 2016.

why

 

[Deleted member]

Here we see people argue about the placement of irrelevant low tier heavies while the list has Pika and Mario in top 5 in 2016.

why

To be fair the list hasn't been updated in three months, so things definitely have changed since then.

 

[wedl!!]

...

I was talking about Bowserboy's list.

 

[Xandercosm]

Here we see people argue about the placement of irrelevant low tier heavies while the list has Pika and Mario in top 5 in 2016.

why

And why shouldn't Mario be in top 5? If you're going to make idiotic statements that nobody else agrees with, at least bring evidence.

 

[Deleted member]

...

I was talking about Bowserboy's list.

Oh sorry... lol. I really gotta pay more attention to things in general.

And why shouldn't Mario be in top 5? If you're going to make idiotic statements that nobody else agrees with, at least bring evidence.

Why do you have to be so rude whenever somebody disagrees with something you think, breh? She's not idiotic for believing Mario isn't top 5, and many others have the same sentiment regarding Mario as well.

 

[Xandercosm]

Oh sorry... lol. I really gotta pay more attention to things in general.



Why do you have to be so rude whenever somebody disagrees with something you think, breh? She's not idiotic for believing Mario isn't top 5, and many others have the same sentiment regarding Mario as well.

I hope u die 4 thinking I'm r00d