Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[Xandercosm]

So nobody is talking about the shulk buffs??? All his air attacks have decent frame data now, but far from the best. Probably won't be going farther than tier 4 though.

Poor Shulk. His character style was kind of built to fail, though, honestly... Bad frame data, wonky experimental Monado system, weak recovery. I dunno, but he really needs evening out.

By the way, what does everyone think about the state of balance patches? Sakurai never explicitly said there would be no more balance patches. Just no new characters.

 

[Deleted member]

The Monado Arts definitely aren't wonky, they're actually very useful tools that can dictate the pace of a fight and change Shulk into almost another character at will. The main issue is indeed his frame data and recovery, like you said.

 

[Xandercosm]

The Monado Arts definitely aren't wonky, they're actually very useful tools that can dictate the pace of a fight and change Shulk into almost another character at will. The main issue is indeed his frame data and recovery, like you said.

Honestly, I've always thought that his Monado arts needed work. I don't know, but there's just something about them and being a high tier character that doesn't mesh well.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

Honestly, I've always thought that his Monado arts needed work. I don't know, but there's just something about them and being a high tier character that doesn't mesh well.

The recovery issue is prevelant but can be easily solved if you switch to jump in the air(it's actually quite simple). But you are screwed if you don't know how to cancel the lag in the air with shulk. his recovery is in the bottom 15 even with jump. the Monado arts are what keep shulk out of the bottom 5

 

[Xandercosm]

The recovery issue is prevelant but can be easily solved if you switch to jump in the air(it's actually quite simple). But you are screwed if you don't know how to cancel the lag in the air with shulk. his recovery is in the bottom 15 even with jump. the Monado arts are what keep shulk out of the bottom 5

At least his recovery isn't as bad as Cloud's...

 

[Zerp]

Poor Shulk. His character style was kind of built to fail, though, honestly... Bad frame data, wonky experimental Monado system, weak recovery. I dunno, but he really needs evening out.

By the way, what does everyone think about the state of balance patches? Sakurai never explicitly said there would be no more balance patches. Just no new characters.

I think Mr. Sakurai was trying to say that he's done with Smash, so I'm kind of expecting February to be the last patch since he clearly doesn't want to work on it anymore I'd like it if he would leave some people in charge of balancing but I doubt it. Hope I'm wrong though.
( If puff does not ever get a buff at the end I will harm something.)

 

[Xandercosm]

I think Mr. Sakurai was trying to say that he's done with Smash, so I'm kind of expecting February to be the last patch since he clearly doesn't want to work on it anymore I'd like it if he would leave some people in charge of balancing but I doubt it. Hope I'm wrong though.
( If puff does not ever get a buff at the end I will harm something.)

Now just to pray that Bowser's new U-throw combo doesn't get nerfed for some reason and that some deserving low tiers get buffs.

 

[Deleted member]

Now just to pray that Bowser's new U-throw combo doesn't get nerfed for some reason and that some deserving low tiers get buffs.

...

*cough* *cough*

I'll never understand why the Japanese see him as mid-tier. He has so many issues yet he's been ignored patch after patch. Sigh.

 

[Xandercosm]

...

*cough* *cough*

I'll never understand why the Japanese see him as mid-tier. He has so many issues yet he's been ignored patch after patch. Sigh.

*cough* Gordo and D-throw *cough*

 

[Deleted member]

*cough* Gordo and D-throw *cough*

Literally anything reflects Gordos and dthrow combos usually stop working when nearing high percents, so Dedede usually has to fish for a read to KO somebody due to his moves being so sluggish.

 

[Xandercosm]

Literally anything reflects Gordos and dthrow combos usually stop working when nearing high percents, so Dedede usually has to fish for a read to KO somebody due to his moves being so sluggish.

dat moment when D3 gets killed by gordo when Mario reflects it with a single fireball...

 

[Furret24]

Literally anything reflects Gordos

LIEEESSSSZZZ!!!

List of Things That Can't Reflect Gordos
- Fox's lasers from a great distance
- Most (if not all) rapid jab hits
- Finishing Touch
- Mac's Nair if it's stale

And that's it I believe.

If you haven't noticed, I'm no longer pranked, so...

...

That doesn't look right anymore. I'm sticking with dark blue. :|

(I'm still maining greenie gaw though)

 

[Deleted member]

LIEEESSSSZZZ!!!

List of Things That Can't Reflect Gordos
- Fox's lasers from a great distance
- Most (if not all) rapid jab hits
- Finishing Touch
- Mac's Nair if it's stale

And that's it I believe.

If you haven't noticed, I'm no longer pranked, so...

...

That doesn't look right anymore. I'm sticking with dark blue. :|

(I'm still maining greenie gaw though)

Fox still bodies Dedede so it's not like blasters not being able to reflect Gordos helps him much in that MU. Sheik's needles don't reflect Gordos either, and she still beats D3.

Those other two are situational, yo

 

[Furret24]

Fox still bodies Dedede so it's not like blasters not being able to reflect Gordos helps him much in that MU. Sheik's needles don't reflect Gordos either, and she still beats D3.

Those other two are situational, yo

They still exist though, so not literally everything can reflect it, even if the things that don't are negligible at best.

 

[Xandercosm]

Y'know, on another note, I find it interesting how many people are so dedicated to their mains even though they're low tier or worse. Look at those Jiggs and Zelda mains. Dayum that's some dedication...

 

[Deleted member]

Y'know, on another note, I find it interesting how many people are so dedicated to their mains even though they're low tier or worse. Look at those Jiggs and Zelda mains. Dayum that's some dedication...

I agree. Though the ones that try to defend their character to the grave and say they're national-tournament viable are just annoying, especially when they lack the results or theorycraft to back it up.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

At least his recovery isn't as bad as Cloud's...

Or even worse, Little Mac. At least Cloud has Limit Break to help him out, but Little Mac has nothing that can help his bad recovery.

 

[flieskiller]

Or even worse, Little Mac. At least Cloud has Limit Break to help him out, but Little Mac has nothing that can help his bad recovery.

He has Counter if the opponent tries to edgeguard, ignoring the attack and the counter moves him closer to the stage.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

He has Counter if the opponent tries to edgeguard, ignoring the attack and the counter moves him closer to the stage.

It's still a risky maneuver though, since it actually requires the opponent to attack Little Mac.

 

[Furret24]

Y'know, on another note, I find it interesting how many people are so dedicated to their mains even though they're low tier or worse. Look at those Jiggs and Zelda mains. Dayum that's some dedication...

I enjoy watching and playing and too much to just drop them.

 

[Xandercosm]

I enjoy watching and playing and too much to just drop them.

Good for you, sir!

 

[aεrgiα]

Poor Shulk. His character style was kind of built to fail, though, honestly... Bad frame data, wonky experimental Monado system, weak recovery. I dunno, but he really needs evening out.

By the way, what does everyone think about the state of balance patches? Sakurai never explicitly said there would be no more balance patches. Just no new characters.

did he even explicitly claim there will be no more characters? bc afaik he didnt, he did imply it though, same goes for any additional work on it. the only official statement i believe we have is that there will be no more smash exclusive directs... please correct me if im wrong though... and anyway, looking at the end of the direct its 99% likely that february will be the final update for the game looking at how sentimental it was

 

[Xandercosm]

did he even explicitly claim there will be no more characters? bc afaik he didnt, he did imply it though, same goes for any additional work on it. the only official statement i believe we have is that there will be no more smash exclusive directs... please correct me if im wrong though... and anyway, looking at the end of the direct its 99% likely that february will be the final update for the game looking at how sentimental it was

Yeah. It IS Sakurai. He's a troll, y'know...

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

Y'know, on another note, I find it interesting how many people are so dedicated to their mains even though they're low tier or worse. Look at those Jiggs and Zelda mains. Dayum that's some dedication...

Since you considers shulk low tier, yeah I am looking for some breakthrough with him.

 

[Wintermelon43]

LIEEESSSSZZZ!!!

List of Things That Can't Reflect Gordos
- Fox's lasers from a great distance
- Most (if not all) rapid jab hits
- Finishing Touch
- Mac's Nair if it's stale

And that's it I believe.

If you haven't noticed, I'm no longer pranked, so...

...

That doesn't look right anymore. I'm sticking with dark blue. :|

(I'm still maining greenie gaw though)

What does being pranked even mean?

 

[Furret24]

What does being pranked even mean?

I dunno. All I know is

-Only premium users can do it.
-It changes your user color to purple.
- It changes your tagline to "Pranked!".
- You can't do anything about it once you're pranked.

 

[Xandercosm]

I dunno. All I know is

-Only premium users can do it.
-It changes your user color to purple.
- It changes your tagline to "Pranked!".
- You can't do anything about it once you're pranked.

How do you even get that little G&W at the end of all your posts?

 

[Furret24]

How do you even get that little G&W at the end of all your posts?

I take an image of it and paste it there. SmashWiki (where I got this image) has a properly sized image of each head icon and their pallete swaps from each Smash game.

 

[aεrgiα]

and i was thinking it was bb code... something like

edit: im stupid, img is also bb code, what i meant was through the attachment option, makes no difference though :/

 

[Deleted member]

I think Mr. Sakurai was trying to say that he's done with Smash, so I'm kind of expecting February to be the last patch since he clearly doesn't want to work on it anymore I'd like it if he would leave some people in charge of balancing but I doubt it. Hope I'm wrong though.
( If puff does not ever get a buff at the end I will harm something.)

I personally hope you're right. I think we need a stable metagame now, and since we get patches often we can't develop the metagame and have an actual Backroom tier list. Plus, I feel the SSB4 community is pretty spoiled by the possibility of nerfs and buffs. If the game stopped updating now, I'd personally be content.

I take an image of it and paste it there. SmashWiki (where I got this image) has a properly sized image of each head icon and their pallete swaps from each Smash game.

Seems like a burden to copy and paste the image at the end of every post made.

 

[Furret24]

Seems like a burden to copy and paste the image at the end of every post made.

More of a habit now than anything. Mainly because I only have to do the copy part occasionally, as I can paste the image as many times as I like as long as I don't copy another image.

 

[Routa]

Seems like a burden to copy and paste the image at the end of every post made.

Cool kids have special image as their "signature" in the end of each post.

 

[Bowserboy3]

So, with all the new info on patch details of 1.1.3 settling in, what are your guys first impressions?

I personally think that the Up Throw buff for is enough for him to be takes seriously in competitive play now. Bowser already has the best non tether grab and pivot grab range (IICR?), and his options from a grab are great wherever he is on the stage. His F/Bthrows can kill at around 130%, and can true combo a "Koo-Pah" combo, UThrow into Uair at around 90% and kill. Though I still don't think he is anywhere higher than mid tier at all, I wouldn't argue seeing him in mid tier, or lower mid.

's buffs are nice, but they aren't as game changing as Bowser's for example.

's buffs on the other hand I feel are enough to let people see him as a decent character. I could see him moving up a tier in the list.

's buffs for me are in the same boat as Ganon. Welcomed, but not game changing. They just make him more solid.

and's buffs are also in the same boat for me. However, for Kirby, his Up Throw buff was the most important IMO.

Overall, I think that Bowser's throw is enough to give him competitive usage. We will see in the future whether that is true or not, but that is my stance. Everyone else who was buffed extensively just feel like bonuses to me, apart from Mewtwo, who I feel should be seen as slightly better than before.

 

[aεrgiα]

Cool kids have special image as their "signature" in the end of each post.

i wish that i could be like the cool kids 'Cause all the cool kids, they seem to fit in.

im sorry i had to, ok? i know its stupid but i just saw this ... maybe i should put it in my signature

 

[Xandercosm]

So, with all the new info on patch details of 1.1.3 settling in, what are your guys first impressions?

I personally think that the Up Throw buff for is enough for him to be takes seriously in competitive play now. Bowser already has the best non tether grab and pivot grab range (IICR?), and his options from a grab are great wherever he is on the stage. His F/Bthrows can kill at around 130%, and can true combo a "Koo-Pah" combo, UThrow into Uair at around 90% and kill. Though I still don't think he is anywhere higher than mid tier at all, I wouldn't argue seeing him in mid tier, or lower mid.

's buffs are nice, but they aren't as game changing as Bowser's for example.

's buffs on the other hand I feel are enough to let people see him as a decent character. I could see him moving up a tier in the list.

's buffs for me are in the same boat as Ganon. Welcomed, but not game changing. They just make him more solid.

and's buffs are also in the same boat for me. However, for Kirby, his Up Throw buff was the most important IMO.

Overall, I think that Bowser's throw is enough to give him competitive usage. We will see in the future whether that is true or not, but that is my stance. Everyone else who was buffed extensively just feel like bonuses to me, apart from Mewtwo, who I feel should be seen as slightly better than before.

I agree, although, I think Bowser is closer to high-mid now, considering I thought he was mid tier before the patch. Honestly, this is huge for him. I'm not sure how exactly this will effect Bowser in tournaments. All I know is that this is the biggest buff since DK's Ding Dong.

 

[Bowserboy3]

I agree. Though the ones that try to defend their character to the grave and say they're national-tournament viable are just annoying, especially when they lack the results or theorycraft to back it up.

You have to admit though, its great to see the lower tier characters having a passionate player base. It's these sort of people who when they do eventually get buffed, will be labbing and pushing the characters as hard as possible. It's great.

But I get what you are saying about lower tier characters. For example, Samus is one of my secondaries. She is one for a reason, as she just isn't fantastic (I think top of the low tier). When I go on about Samus, I try to show that she is not the worst character in the game, but I know in her current state she would struggle in a national level, which is why she is a secondary, and why I main Rosalina and Mario. To be fair, at least Samus has results and evidence/combos etc to back her up, unlike characters like Jigglypuff.

In fact, I might create an early impressions 1.1.3 tier list...

Here are my first impressions on 1.1.3. This is just for fun, and it is not reliable yet, as the patch is just settling in. Nonetheless...

Top)
High)
Low High)
Mid)
Low Mid)
Low)
Bottom)

Just a few notes about this...

• I usually put Ness in the High tier. But after reconsidering his abysmal matchup with Rosalina, I just felt that he should be top of Low High.
• I also feel Greninja and Toon Link deserve Low High places, results or not. Greninja gets a lot of sh** but is still very good, and I feel Toon Link is slept on highly, especially considering the things he can do with Bombs.
• I placed Cloud at the top of Mid for now. I don't think he is any lower at this point in time. However, give him a month or so to settle in and that opinion is open to change.
• Bowser, I placed near the top Low Mid. I feel there is potential for him to go up to Mid Tier, but just to be safe, I placed him there, because he still struggles against projectiles etc.
• Samus and Mewtwo are now near the bottom of Low Mid, due to various buffs and metagame developments.
• I placed Little Mac in Low tier. Now I am not ignoring his insanely good ground game. I just feel at top level where there is more than just FD, and players know how to exploit and mindgame him, I just feel he is outclassed. Also, no input lag.
• Zelda, Sword, Dedede, Palutena and Gunner were tough to order for me, so they are all very similar by my standards.
• Brawler and Jigglypuff are definitely my choices to go in Bottom tier.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

Here are my first impressions on 1.1.3. This is just for fun, and it is not reliable yet, as the patch is just settling in. Nonetheless...

Top)
High)
Low High)
Mid)
Low Mid)
Low)
Bottom)

Just a few notes about this...

• I usually put Ness in the High tier. But after reconsidering his abysmal matchup with Rosalina, I just felt that he should be top of Low High.
• I also feel Greninja and Toon Link deserve Low High places, results or not. Greninja gets a lot of sh** but is still very good, and I feel Toon Link is slept on highly, especially considering the things he can do with Bombs.
• I placed Cloud at the top of Mid for now. I don't think he is any lower at this point in time. However, give him a month or so to settle in and that opinion is open to change.
• Bowser, I placed near the top Low Mid. I feel there is potential for him to go up to Mid Tier, but just to be safe, I placed him there, because he still struggles against projectiles etc.
• Samus and Mewtwo are now near the bottom of Low Mid, due to various buffs and metagame developments.
• I placed Little Mac in Low tier. Now I am not ignoring his insanely good ground game. I just feel at top level where there is more than just FD, and players know how to exploit and mindgame him, I just feel he is outclassed. Also, no input lag.
• Zelda, Sword, Dedede, Palutena and Gunner were tough to order for me, so they are all very similar by my standards.
• Brawler and Jigglypuff are definitely my choices to go in Bottom tier.

Shulk below Zard? I think he should be in the middle of low mid, right after bowser

 

[Bowserboy3]

Shulk below Zard? I think he should be in the middle of low mid, right after bowser

I still don't think he is all that great. Yes, his aerials got a couple frames less lag this time, but his ground kill moves are still as laggy as ever. Still, this is just my opinion. I could move him up 3 spaces or so, but that is all I would move him

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Looks okay at spots. I do agree with putting Rosalina at the top of High, since pretty much all of the top tiered characters have an advantage against her, and she does have a disadvantageous match-up against Meta Knight as well. All the other high tiered match-ups so far, range from even to positive for her.

I can't really offer much feedback on the rest though.

 

[Xandercosm]

You have to admit though, its great to see the lower tier characters having a passionate player base. It's these sort of people who when they do eventually get buffed, will be labbing and pushing the characters as hard as possible. It's great.

But I get what you are saying about lower tier characters. For example, Samus is one of my secondaries. She is one for a reason, as she just isn't fantastic (I think top of the low tier). When I go on about Samus, I try to show that she is not the worst character in the game, but I know in her current state she would struggle in a national level, which is why she is a secondary, and why I main Rosalina and Mario. To be fair, at least Samus has results and evidence/combos etc to back her up, unlike characters like Jigglypuff.

In fact, I might create an early impressions 1.1.3 tier list...

Here are my first impressions on 1.1.3. This is just for fun, and it is not reliable yet, as the patch is just settling in. Nonetheless...

Top)
High)
Low High)
Mid)
Low Mid)
Low)
Bottom)

Just a few notes about this...

• I usually put Ness in the High tier. But after reconsidering his abysmal matchup with Rosalina, I just felt that he should be top of Low High.
• I also feel Greninja and Toon Link deserve Low High places, results or not. Greninja gets a lot of sh** but is still very good, and I feel Toon Link is slept on highly, especially considering the things he can do with Bombs.
• I placed Cloud at the top of Mid for now. I don't think he is any lower at this point in time. However, give him a month or so to settle in and that opinion is open to change.
• Bowser, I placed near the top Low Mid. I feel there is potential for him to go up to Mid Tier, but just to be safe, I placed him there, because he still struggles against projectiles etc.
• Samus and Mewtwo are now near the bottom of Low Mid, due to various buffs and metagame developments.
• I placed Little Mac in Low tier. Now I am not ignoring his insanely good ground game. I just feel at top level where there is more than just FD, and players know how to exploit and mindgame him, I just feel he is outclassed. Also, no input lag.
• Zelda, Sword, Dedede, Palutena and Gunner were tough to order for me, so they are all very similar by my standards.
• Brawler and Jigglypuff are definitely my choices to go in Bottom tier.

I think it's funny how you put Marth and Lucina in mid. They should both be in the middle of low mid, in my opinion and almost everyone else's. No h8 just could you explain your logic?