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Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

A-money2121

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Charizard's probably going to leap up a fair amount, thanks to all the buffs he's been getting.
Gotta say, this update really benefited some of the low tiers: Charizard's down smash is stronger, Bowser now has a combo throw and a true combo, Mewtwo is faster, has less lag in aerials and has stronger moves, Kirby's smash attacks and aerial are stronger, etc. I'd say it's a fair climax for Smash Bros.! Here's to more buffs next February, lord willing!
 

atreyujames

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On the topic of Charizard... I doubt he will rise much. I could see him getting higher in Tier 5 but that's about it. If Charizard was going to be going up any significant amount, it would've been after 1.0.8 which was close to 5 months ago. But really all he got was a change to his dash attack which, while a good change, isn't exactly gamebreaking or good enough to cause any noteworthy shifts. And honestly he wasn't the only one with a smash buff. A buff to a kill move is great and all, but his Dsmash is a punish or read based tool. You should only be using it when you are 100% sure it will hit and kill. The buff might give you an earlier time to use the move, but that doesn't mean it made it safer.
 

Smashoperatingbuddy123

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Not sure when this is coming

But 2 things


:4mewtwo: Is probably going to get a way higher tier since mewtwo is more usable now as of update 1.1.3

:4cloud: Is almost diddy Kong tier (before diddy got nerfed.) S tier for short.
 
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:4cloud: Is almost diddy Kong tier (before diddy got nerfed.) S tier for short.
Explain your reasoning, I highly doubt this. Cloud has a bad, linear recovery that covers little distance when not Limit Broken and he seems to lack kill setups. These flaws would easily derive him of S tier status.

Plus, the character is less than a day old, so many more capabilities (and flaws) are yet to be discovered. It's too early to decide what tier Cloud is in.
 

Smashoperatingbuddy123

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Explain your reasoning, I highly doubt this. Cloud has a bad, linear recovery that covers little distance when not Limit Broken and he seems to lack kill setups. These flaws would easily derive him of S tier status.

Plus, the character is less than a day old, so many more capabilities (and flaws) are yet to be discovered. It's too early to decide what tier Cloud is in.
I don't really know it's just

He's a fast attack version of Ike of what I'm looking at

That 3 hit combo side smash is intense

His limit break is a mix of little macs thing and can be charge if you can't wait any longer

The charge attacks are so powerful

His standard down is immense a slide under the opponments

His up special is way better than it is it can get a nasty knock back if you hit with the second B attack

But it's just my opinion. (And I was just saying in a way A or S tier easily.)

And believe it or not I got a flawless victory against a giant ROB in classic mode on the 3ds version at it was the red path
 

atreyujames

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I don't really know it's just

He's a fast attack version of Ike of what I'm looking at

That 3 hit combo side smash is intense

His limit break is a mix of little macs thing and can be charge if you can't wait any longer

The charge attacks are so powerful

His standard down is immense a slide under the opponments

His up special is way better than it is it can get a nasty knock back if you hit with the second B attack

But it's just my opinion. (And I was just saying in a way A or S tier easily.)

And believe it or not I got a flawless victory against a giant ROB in classic mode on the 3ds version at it was the red path
I'll admit, he has some good attacks... but almost every character has SOME good attacks. The thing that would stop Cloud from getting any higher than tier 4 imo is his poor recovery, (apparent) lack of good set ups and high damaging combo's, and his Lack f any efficient combo breakers. None of his aerials or specials come out fast enough to interupt the oppnents strings. He lacks a solid combo throw past low percents. Strong kill moves are cool and all, but when it becomes purely read based on whether you can hit them or not... at high level competitive play it adds up to him being rather lackluster. But like @MentalDaemon said, most of this is speculation at this point because he's only been out for a day
 

Smashoperatingbuddy123

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I'll admit, he has some good attacks... but almost every character has SOME good attacks. The thing that would stop Cloud from getting any higher than tier 4 imo is his poor recovery, (apparent) lack of good set ups and high damaging combo's, and his Lack f any efficient combo breakers. None of his aerials or specials come out fast enough to interupt the oppnents strings. He lacks a solid combo throw past low percents. Strong kill moves are cool and all, but when it becomes purely read based on whether you can hit them or not... at high level competitive play it adds up to him being rather lackluster. But like @MentalDaemon said, most of this is speculation at this point because he's only been out for a day
Reminder of clouds limit is charge that's a different story with the recovery factor.

But yea these are good points. Of what keeps him from being higher.
 

zeldasmash

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Cloud is good and a lot of fun, but is no way top tier.

His recovery is god awful without Limit Break. He can't even do a reliable edge-guard without risking getting jibbed by his recovery and the fact that Up B doesn't auto-snap the edge makes him among the easiest characters in the game to gimp.

Cloud's throws range from mediocre to just plain bad and his grab range isn't good either. This is not good considering that throws are very important in Smash 4 and Cloud doesn't have one throw that is at the very least decent and he also has no good way to rack up damage due to his apparent lack of set-ups, something in which throws could have helped.

Basically, Cloud needs to be in Limit Break to be threatening, which he definitely is by the time he gets there, but once you get him offstage without it, he can die almost about as easy as Little Mac.

The most i see him is a low high tier due to how great Limit Break is, but i think he is mid tier right now.
 

TMNTSSB4

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Does Cloud have to rely on limit breaks alot?
 

lordvaati

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I am legit worried that Bayonetta will become the worst matchup for Lucario on the face of the planet.
 

Xandercosm

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GUYS!!! HOLY ****ING ****!!! Bowser now has a kill confirm off of U-throw that kills all weights from 80-120 (U-throw now true combos into Fair, Uair, and U-smash at almost all percents above 40). True ****ING COMBO B****ES!!! TRUE MOTHER****ING COMBO!!! WOMBO COMBO!!! Please forgive me for being so intense but this is, literally, the most hype I've been since the release of Smash 4. It's a new age for Bowser, people. A NEW AGE!!!
 

TMNTSSB4

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GUYS!!! HOLY ****ING ****!!! Bowser now has a kill confirm off of U-throw that kills all weights from 80-120 (U-throw now true combos into Fair, Uair, and U-smash at almost all percents above 40). True ****ING COMBO B****ES!!! TRUE MOTHER****ING COMBO!!! WOMBO COMBO!!! Please forgive me for being so intense but this is, literally, the most hype I've been since the release of Smash 4. It's a new age for Bowser, people. A NEW AGE!!!
Nothing about yesterday hyped you up at all?
 

atreyujames

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GUYS!!! HOLY ****ING ****!!! Bowser now has a kill confirm off of U-throw that kills all weights from 80-120 (U-throw now true combos into Fair, Uair, and U-smash at almost all percents above 40). True ****ING COMBO B****ES!!! TRUE MOTHER****ING COMBO!!! WOMBO COMBO!!! Please forgive me for being so intense but this is, literally, the most hype I've been since the release of Smash 4. It's a new age for Bowser, people. A NEW AGE!!!
Little late to the party aren't cha ;P this was already spoken of in detail in the last couple of pages
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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I am legit worried that Bayonetta will become the worst matchup for Lucario on the face of the planet.
I don't know. It might come down to how light Bayonetta is, since if she ends up being a super lightweight fighter, building up Lucario's damage could actually end up working against her.
 

TMNTSSB4

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I don't know. It might come down to how light Bayonetta is, since if she ends up being a super lightweight fighter, building up Lucario's damage could actually end up working against her.
But what if she's heavy as hell? As in Pit heavy
 
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Mario & Sonic Guy

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But what if she's heavy as hell? As in Pit heavy
I don't know. I kind of think that Bayonetta should be as light as Mewtwo (72). She's quite an athletic person, and if you want to utilize those insane combos of her's, there has to be an added risk to go with it, and making her super light would mean that she'd have to tread more cautiously against the heavy hitting threats like Ganondorf and Bowser.

And of course, Rosalina would no longer be the lightest human fighter if she's heavier than Bayonetta.
 

TMNTSSB4

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I don't know. I kind of think that Bayonetta should be as light as Mewtwo (72). She's quite an athletic person, and if you want to utilize those insane combos of her's, there has to be an added risk to go with it, and making her super light would mean that she'd have to tread more cautiously against the heavy hitting threats like Ganondorf and Bowser.

And of course, Rosalina would no longer be the lightest human fighter if she's heavier than Bayonetta.
I'd expect her to atleast be either Pit or ZSS weight size

And Xandercosm Xandercosm Noni haven't
 
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TMNTSSB4

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I simply prefer Rosalina a lot more.
But why don't you like Bayonetta? I'm not going by Smash since she ain't out yet(heck she could be better or worse than Rosalina for all we know, equal would he weird), I'm going off of character(aka her personality).
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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But why don't you like Bayonetta? I'm not going by Smash since she ain't out yet(heck she could be better or worse than Rosalina for all we know, equal would he weird), I'm going off of character(aka her personality).
I guess it mostly has to do with her character, and how she operates.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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But nothing about her personality?
Well, that too, since she feels like a person that you don't ever want to be around. She's sort of like Rosalina's polar opposite, since Rosalina is a much more comfortable person with her nice and caring personality. I get nothing but bad vibes from Bayonetta.

Thank god! Someone who shares my opinion on bayonetta. I never thought I'd see the day... *sniff*
Yeah I've never cared about the Bayonetta series myself. Besides, I tend to avoid all M-rated games anyway.
 

aεrgiα

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Yeah, I was treally disappointed. Another FE character we don't need and Bayonetta. I don't like Bayonetta...
i can understand about not liking bayonetta(well i cant but i can respect it) but the fe character? i could undertsand if it was just another marthina clone but with such a unique moveset whats the problem? is the series the character comes from really that important? because to me it isnt... and lets face it, corrin was more like a present/surprise character to celebrate fates, and imho if we didnt get corrin, we wouldnt have gotten any other character instead. i dont know where this notion came from that multiple ballot characters would make it in, but when the ballot was first announced i straight away thought we will get ONLY the winning character, and thats how it happened... i can understand u not being happy that ur character didnt get in and i understand the sentiment (i would have wanted mawile and monster hunter in but i didnt vote for them because i knew it wouldnt happen, im probably the only person in the whole world who wants mawile, and monsterhunter is just not successsful enough in the west, add on the fact that we already have ryu and mega man as capcom 3rd party characters and i knew it would be impossible, so i voted for the most plausible option which i would still be extremely happy about) but as u know i did get lucky with my vote so all i can say is my condolences...

I thought I knew you guys
i dont know why but this made me laugh so hard :joyful:
 

TMNTSSB4

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Well, that too, since she feels like a person that you don't ever want to be around. She's sort of like Rosalina's polar opposite, since Rosalina is a much more comfortable person with her nice and caring personality. I get nothing but bad vibes from Bayonetta.



Yeah I've never cared about the Bayonetta series myself. Besides, I tend to avoid all M-rated games anyway.
That's kinda the point in Bayonetta(like Pit and Dark Pit, you got Bayonetta and Rosalina/Palutena)
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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That's kinda the point in Bayonetta(like Pit and Dark Pit, you got Bayonetta and Rosalina/Palutena)
The funny thing is, Dark Pit has more in common with Shadow the Hedgehog, since they're both anti-heroes, and have very similar personalities; they're often very serious, and have a very little sense of humor. Also, Dark Pit and Shadow are identical in that they've both been portrayed as bosses and playable characters in their respective games, AND have antagonized the main protagonist at one point.
 

TMNTSSB4

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The funny thing is, Dark Pit has more in common with Shadow the Hedgehog, since they're both anti-heroes, and have very similar personalities; they're often very serious, and have a very little sense of humor. Also, Dark Pit and Shadow are identical in that they've both been portrayed as bosses and playable characters in their respective games, AND have antagonized the main protagonist at one point.
True, but Dark Pit atleast stayed a boss(as in badass), and Shadow...RIP
 

richy90

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It's sad. You'll never know the good side of Bayonetta or any person by just looking at them. So without playing her games there is no point on saying that she's not kind, she's bad or that she give bad vibes. She has acted as a caring friend, as a mother and as a daughter. You are losing all the point being just based on appearances, when I'm sure a lot other characters as Rosalina are very less developed in that way and only seems "better persons" by judging their manners rather than their acts.
 

valakmtnsmash4

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So nobody is talking about the shulk buffs??? All his air attacks have decent frame data now, but far from the best. Probably won't be going farther than tier 4 though.
 
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