Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[Furret24]

Sorry for the double-post, but, as a side note, I still think Shrek will be a last minute reveal. Who's with me?

Sorry man. The DLC stuff is already ogre.

;P

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Cloud will be nerfed. Jigglypuff will still be garbage. Zelda will still be garbage. Ganondorf will have 1 less frame of landing lag on one of his aerials. Sheik will be buffed.

I don't think Cloud needs any nerfs...besides maybe either fair or uair and limit(only things I hear are always complained about)

 

[Xandercosm]

I don't think Cloud needs any nerfs...besides maybe either fair or uair and limit(only things I hear are always complained about)

I don't think he needs to be nerfed either. It was mostly a joke post.

 

[aεrgiα]

Could we note that that post was edited by moderator? Maybe he/she had linked to it before it was edited.

That's all I got. :/ We should start focusing on something else now.


Anyone got some predictions for the balance patch coming in February?

well i read it before the warning so either it got edited before it got warned or it didnt contain the link, but assuming that it did contain the link, then the post above it should also get a warning since that actually (still) contains the link, not that i want it to get warned as thats one of the most ******** reasons ive ever heard for getting a warning on any site; backing up ur arguments with data...

but on a more constructive note, i actually think if anything we will see a cloud buff in regards to his recovery/issues with limit break. considering what they did with mewtwo this patch i also think its likely that samus and other wonky hitboxes get fixed next patch and i hope the reason why they didnt do it this patch was simply due to lack of time. im hoping that the characters which deserve, and are in dire need of them(jiggs, d3, zelda etc) get the buffs they deserve, but, especially on the first 2, considering how much time nintendo has had to change/buff them(jiggs and d3 have been nerfed or stayed the same throughout the games lifespan afaik) i doubt it will happen, although, seeing as d3 is actually dropping in recent japanese tier lists, there may still at least be hope for him although i think hes too good on fg for that to happen. i think greninja will get another minor buff, and maybe luma will have her hp inccreased/decreased by 2%. despite the huge buffs they both got, i think bowser and lucas will stay the same. and finally, seeing that they buffed dp this patch i think they may increase the difference between the clone characters(specifically talking about lucina and dark pit). especially lucina since currently, if u average out the tipper vs non tipper damage marth does vs lucinas steady damage, marth easily wins. i can understand the logic of, its a beginner character so just an easier version of marth, but even then, or maybe especially then, beginners are more drawn towards characters that can kill at 40 with smashes(even if its just by pure luck) than a character that can kill at 75 with a smash(i dont know the exact figures, just a guesstimate), so even then, lucinas not a popular character at all, and imo, she may be one of the least used characters across all levels of play(casual, scrub, fg, mid level, high level and top level) only other contenders being miis and lucas... in fact probably the only people that use her are waifu warriors(props to them)

 

[Furret24]

well i read it before the warning so either it got edited before it got warned or it didnt contain the link, but assuming that it did contain the link, then the post above it should also get a warning since that actually (still) contains the link, not that i want it to get warned as thats one of the most ******** reasons ive ever heard for getting a warning on any site, backing up ur arguments with data...

Don't know what to tell you then. Sorry. :/

but even then, or maybe especially then, beginners are more drawn towards characters that can kill at 40 with smashes(even if its just by pure luck) than a character that can kill at 75 with a smash(i dont know the exact figures, just a guesstimate)

Marth's fsmash is not Judge. It is not luck based whether you get it's sweetspot or not.

so even then, lucinas not a popular character at all, and imo, she may be one of the least used characters across all levels of play(scrub/casual, fg, mid level, high level and top level) only other contenders being miis and lucas... in fact probably the only people that use her are waifu warriors(props to them)

Lucina's pretty common in low-level play. Atleast more than Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Olimar, Game and Watch, Bowser Jr, Duck Hunt, and Wii Fit Trainer.

 

[aεrgiα]

Don't know what to tell you then. Sorry. :/

Marth's fsmash is not Judge. It is not luck based whether you get it's sweetspot or not.

Don't know why you listed Lucas there when Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Olimar, Game and Watch, Bowser Jr, Duck Hunt, and Wii Fit Trainer exist and are far rarer. They would make better examples.

1) yep thats exactly the reason why im confused.

2) i know its not, i never said it was, so sorry if it came across like that, rather i meant that even if the player(we are talking about beginners/casuals here) lands it by pure coincidence, NOT spacing.

3) very simple, ive seen 1 lucas on fg aka hes the character ive seen the least out of the whole cast, so personal experience, and in competitive play hes one of the least used characters, check this sites tournament usage for proof, mewtwo, just look at event scrubs, theres a surprising number of people that use him and think highly of him outside of competitive play, olimar is rare in low level yes, but in high level play hes surprisingly frequent, game and watch is quite rare, ive still seem much more of him than of lucas, bowser junior is not rare, im from germany, everyone here plays junior, its crazy but true, i once heard someone say on a german stream that germanys the land of the bowser jr.s and its true, duck hunt is in the same boat as g&w, although he sees more use in mid level play, and wii fit really isnt that rare, not a popular playing style but even then theres still a few people that play her/him... as for lucas, low level play dont play him bc "hes just a ness clone", mid level play dont play him because... i guess he got overshadowed by the other dlc characters that released at the same time? and high level play/top level play... well u name me one or two top level players... theres nakat who doesnt even secondary him and pink fresh who uses pit and lucas(and i have no clue which of those is currently his main) and appart from that... well i cant think of any other relatively know players, while i can for all the other characters i listed(although g&w is also scarily underrepped so yh... i should have included him too, but at least he has regi, songun(?) and gimr who are well known). on the topic though, doc comes to mind as a hardly used character too...

 

[Deleted member]

Why were you warned for this post?

It was because it was a double post, but now it was merged by a mod.

It has nothing to do with linking to kuroganehammer.com or anything like that.

 

[Routa]

Yeah the amount of double posting in here is....

<.<
>.>

a bit higher than 9000...

But anyways should we change the Mii voting from 1111 Guest to XXXX Guest? Many small tournaments use XXXX Guest size rule. Also many Mii mains are more familiar with their "own" moves than with 1111.

 

[aεrgiα]

Yeah the amount of double posting in here is....

<.<
>.>

a bit higher than 9000...

But anyways should we change the Mii voting from 1111 Guest to XXXX Guest? Many small tournaments use XXXX Guest size rule. Also many Mii mains are more familiar with their "own" moves than with 1111.

id be fine with that, since thats the standard "here" anyway, the ony "problem" i see with it that people are just gonna put brawler at #1 bc hes "broken" and "jank" etc

 

[Bowserboy3]

Why were you warned for this post?

I posted a reply to you first, then replied to somebody else afterwards. Hence, a "double post". If you look at the post now, my two posts were merged together. Didn't realise there was a restriction like that. No biggie, I'm not one to get eat up about a silly infraction when I clearly made a mistake.

 

[Routa]

id be fine with that, since thats the standard "here" anyway, the ony "problem" i see with it that people are just gonna put brawler at #1 bc hes "broken" and "jank" etc

"AMHG HELIKICK OP PLZ BAN!!!"

"I'm fine with Boost Kick."

 

[aεrgiα]

I posted a reply to you first, then replied to somebody else afterwards. Hence, a "double post". If you look at the post now, my two posts were merged together. Didn't realise there was a restriction like that. No biggie, I'm not one to get eat up about a silly infraction when I clearly made a mistake.

while thats fine and all, i would love someone to tell me how i can edit in a quote from someone into my comment then, because ive also "double posted" numerous times because i replied to one person, and then, later, came back to realise i wanted to reply to someone else too, and found i couldnt edit their post into my already existing comment... because i dont want to get a warning for such a trivial reason... :/

 

[Xandercosm]

(casual, scrub, fg, mid level, high level and top level)

I love how "scrub" is one of the levels of play you listed.

 

[Bowserboy3]

I just want to point out how impressed I am with the speed increases on Lucario. My results are becoming a lot more consistent with him thanks to it (either that or I "got gud").

 

[Xandercosm]

I just want to point out how impressed I am with the speed increases on Lucario. My results are becoming a lot more consistent with him thanks to it (either that or I "got gud").

Speed increases for Lucario?

 

[Furret24]

Speed increases for Lucario?

His airspeed, fall speed, and walking speed were increased this patch.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I don't think he needs to be nerfed either. It was mostly a joke post.

Someone will complain that he will need one

 

[Xandercosm]

His airspeed, fall speed, and walking speed were increased this patch.

Oh. Wow. Good for him. I must not have noticed that in the patch notes.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Would it be wrong for Rosalina to receive an air speed buff? It would probably help with her recovery if she tries to recover from above.

On a similar note, Peach's air speed has been below average after Melee, which is also a bit disappointing.

 

[Xandercosm]

Would it be wrong for Rosalina to receive an air speed buff? It would probably help with her recovery if she tries to recover from above.

On a similar note, Peach's air speed has been below average after Melee, which is also a bit disappointing.

Lets be really honest here. Rosalina doesn't need one. single. ****ing. buff.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Lets be really honest here. Rosalina doesn't need one. single. ****ing. buff.

I guess there's the Glider equipment for that, though it's very hard to rebalance your fighter's stats back to 0 if they're given bonus effects.

 

[Furret24]

Would it be wrong for Rosalina to receive an air speed buff? It would probably help with her recovery if she tries to recover from above.

Considering that her airspeed is not bad by any means, and the fact that's she's already top tier, I'd say yes.

On this subject though, I'd like it if they buffed 's aerial acceleration. Is there any reason for it to be the third worst in the game, borderline forcing him to commit to a single direction after jumping? Megaman's aerial acceleration is disgusting by the way.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

Lets be really honest here. Rosalina doesn't need one. single. ****ing. buff.

How about a better air speed? Seriously have seen a lot of players take advantage of that when she is Luma-less, can't say anything personal about this because she isn't a character I use nor I commonly fight against and when I do, it's only casuals like myself.

 

[Xandercosm]

How about a better air speed? Seriously have seen a lot of players take advantage of that when she is Luma-less, can't say anything personal about this because she isn't a character I use nor I commonly fight against and when I do, it's only casuals like myself.

And that's a good thing. She needs something that opponents can take advantage of.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

And that's a good thing. She needs something that opponents can take advantage of.

Being Lumaless is obviously one thing, and having no hitbox for her Launch Star special is another. I should also point out that Mewtwo doesn't have a hitbox for its third jump either, and yet its air speed is top 3 material.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

And that's a good thing. She needs something that opponents can take advantage of.

Can't say anything about this because I mostly just rush in on any opportunity I get, mostly this is why Lucina fits me better than Marth, and I have started maining Cloud.

 

[Xandercosm]

Being Lumaless is obviously one thing, and having no hitbox for her Launch Star special is another. I should also point out that Mewtwo doesn't have a hitbox for its third jump either, and yet its air speed is top 3 material.

And she's still top tier after all of that. I don't think you can really complain about her, to be honest. If anything, she needs to be nerfed.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

And she's still top tier after all of that. I don't think you can really complain about her, to be honest. If anything, she needs to be nerfed.

Frankly, Rosalina doesn't need any more nerfs than what she has now. She already got nerfed before Smash Wii U was released in that it takes longer for a new Luma to spawn.

 

[Zionaze]

Markus one of our PR players in socal won a 55man tourney with a day 1 cloud sooo.

Also corrin hype

 

[Ark of Silence101]

And she's still top tier after all of that. I don't think you can really complain about her, to be honest. If anything, she needs to be nerfed.

The Luma is her main gimmick, take that off and well.... You just have to deal with that near impossible-to-intercept recovery.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Would it be wrong for Rosalina to receive an air speed buff? It would probably help with her recovery if she tries to recover from above.

On a similar note, Peach's air speed has been below average after Melee, which is also a bit disappointing.

Rosalina doesn't need any kind of buffs(hell I see Ryu getting buffed more before her)

And she's still top tier after all of that. I don't think you can really complain about her, to be honest. If anything, she needs to be nerfed.

She doesn't need anymore nerfs either. The character with the most amount of nerfs shouldn't have another added just for the fun of it)

 

[Xandercosm]

Rosalina doesn't need any kind of buffs(hell I see Ryu getting buffed more before her)

She doesn't need anymore nerfs either. The character with the most amount of nerfs shouldn't have another added just for the fun of it)

It doesn't matter how many nerfs a character has had. If they are still overpowered, they need to be nerfed. She could have been nerfed a trillion times already. All that matters is that she's too powerful and needs to be nerfed along with Sheik and ZSS.

 

[aεrgiα]

Lets be really honest here. Rosalina doesn't need one. single. ****ing. buff.

while i do agree 100% with u on that, i just find it funny that this is coming from the person who wanted meta knight to be buffed ;p but yes, i dont see why people want buffs on high/top tier characters, they definitely dont need the help, especially when theres characters like jiggs which are in dire need of help yet dont get anything

It doesn't matter how many nerfs a character has had. If they are still overpowered, they need to be nerfed. She could have been nerfed a trillion times already. All that matters is that she's too powerful and needs to be nerfed along with Sheik and ZSS.

this first part !!! i wouldve liked the comment if not for the last part, as i dont think any character really needs a nerf, maybe sheik could do with a minor nerf to her needles(imo at least, though most people will say fair should get nerfed). but that first part, so so so true, ive heard the argument "sheik has received the most nerfs out of the whole cast(dont quote me on this as i have no clue, im just repeating what ive heard) so she doesnt need to be nerfed any further"... well no, its not the number of nerfs that counts its what they actually achieved... weegee got nerfed way harder in a single patch than sheik did in all of hers combined afaik.

Rosalina doesn't need any kind of buffs(hell I see Ryu getting buffed more before her)

She doesn't need anymore nerfs either. The character with the most amount of nerfs shouldn't have another added just for the fun of it)

and to say rosa has received the most nerfs out of the cast well... thats cherry picking, i mean yes at the start of the game she received a huge(and deserved imo) nerf but since then, yes shes received nerfs especially with lumas hp but then they reverted it back in the next patch anyway, so saying shes received the most nerfs out of the whole cast is a very one sided argument. do i think rosa should get nerfed? no lol, shes barely top 5 material and unless they plan to nerf all top tier characters she shouldnt get nerfed either. but that has absolutely nothing to do with how many times shes been nerfed or anything like that

 

[Bowserboy3]

Markus one of our PR players in socal won a 55man tourney with a day 1 cloud sooo.

Also corrin hype

Day 1, where nobody knows the Cloud matchup. Huge advantage.

I was actually very exited for Corrin, but am now actually more excited for Bayonetta. I can't wait to give her a try.

 

[Xandercosm]

while i do agree 100% with u on that, i just find it funny that this is coming from the person who wanted meta knight to be buffed ;p but yes, i dont see why people want buffs on high/top tier characters, they definitely dont need the help, especially when theres characters like jiggs which are in dire need of help yet dont get anything

I wanted Meta Knight to be buffed in Brawl too.

this first part !!! i wouldve liked the comment if not for the last part, as i dont think any character really needs a nerf, maybe sheik could do with a minor nerf to her needles(imo at least, though most people will say fair should get nerfed). but that first part, so so so true, ive heard the argument "sheik has received the most nerfs out of the whole cast(dont quote me on this as i have no clue, im just repeating what ive heard) so she doesnt need to be nerfed any further"... well no, its not the number of nerfs that counts its what they actually achieved... weegee got nerfed way harder in a single patch than sheik did in all of hers combined afaik.

Yup. I think Weegee's nerf was too hard, though, since he actually had weaknesses. Sheik has no weaknesses.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

while i do agree 100% with u on that, i just find it funny that this is coming from the person who wanted meta knight to be buffed ;p but yes, i dont see why people want buffs on high/top tier characters, they definitely dont need the help, especially when theres characters like jiggs which are in dire need of help yet dont get anything


this first part !!! i wouldve liked the comment if not for the last part, as i dont think any character really needs a nerf, maybe sheik could do with a minor nerf to her needles(imo at least, though most people will say fair should get nerfed). but that first part, so so so true, ive heard the argument "sheik has received the most nerfs out of the whole cast(dont quote me on this as i have no clue, im just repeating what ive heard) so she doesnt need to be nerfed any further"... well no, its not the number of nerfs that counts its what they actually achieved... weegee got nerfed way harder in a single patch than sheik did in all of hers combined afaik.


and to say rosa has received the most nerfs out of the cast well... thats cherry picking, i mean yes at the start of the game she received a huge(and deserved imo) nerf but since then, yes shes received nerfs especially with lumas hp but then they reverted it back in the next patch anyway, so saying shes received the most nerfs out of the whole cast is a very one sided argument. do i think rosa should get nerfed? no lol, shes barely top 5 material and unless they plan to nerf all top tier characters she shouldnt get nerfed either. but that has absolutely nothing to do with how many times shes been nerfed or anything like that

The amount of nerfs she's been given really does matter when it affects your placement in the tier list(she went from being the best to barely top 5 due to them). Not sure about this patch, but Rosalina has pretty much been nerfed in every...single...patch...which lead to the Hoo Haa Regime's Reign and currently The Fair/Up Air to Up B Dynasties. People could be saying to nerf Zero Suit and Shiek more than Rosalina, but nope let's target the character who's not much of a threat anymore cause lol.

It doesn't matter how many nerfs a character has had. If they are still overpowered, they need to be nerfed. She could have been nerfed a trillion times already. All that matters is that she's too powerful and needs to be nerfed along with Sheik and ZSS.

Literally the only thing that can be considered op is her Uair with Luma...that's it. She's, compared to Shiek, Zero Suit, Pikachu, and even Ryu(who's a tad but broken, but reasonable), is an overly nurtured top tier character who keeps on being complained about when there hasn't been a tournament win from that character in months(maybe even a year idk).
Earth's won a tournament and Zionaze said someone won one with(someone else who was in the same tournament as Earth got 5th place) recently...but not Rosalina. win tourneys on a daily basis pretty much...but not Rosalina. The 1st 2(Pitty Pat and Cloud9)are probably not so good examples since one's the only all around/balanced character and the other one's...Cloud, but the last ones are good. Those 2 mofos need to be nerfed before Rosie does, or buff the rest of the deserving characters(a certain King finally got this pleasure...)

 

[Xandercosm]

The amount of nerfs she's been given really does matter when it affects your placement in the tier list(she went from being the best to barely top 5 due to them). Not sure about this patch, but Rosalina has pretty much been nerfed in every...single...patch...which lead to the Hoo Haa Regime's Reign and currently The Fair/Up Air to Up B Dynasties. People could be saying to nerf Zero Suit and Shiek more than Rosalina, but nope let's target the character who's not much of a threat anymore cause lol.

Literally the only thing that can be considered op is her Uair with Luma...that's it. She's, compared to Shiek, Zero Suit, Pikachu, and even Ryu(who's a tad but broken, but reasonable), is an overly nurtured top tier character who keeps on being complained about when there hasn't been a tournament win from that character in months(maybe even a year idk).
Earth's won a tournament and Zionaze said someone won one with(someone else who was in the same tournament as Earth got 5th place) recently...but not Rosalina. win tourneys on a daily basis pretty much...but not Rosalina. The 1st 2(Pitty Pat and Cloud9)are probably not so good examples since one's the only all around/balanced character and the other one's...Cloud, but the last ones are good. Those 2 mofos need to be nerfed before Rosie does, or buff the rest of the deserving characters(a certain King finally got this pleasure...)

Actually she basically destroys all combo characters since Luma pokes them whenever they get a grab and she has a walking shield everywhere she goes. Also, all her attacks have insane range and power. Plus, unlike Ice Climbers, Luma comes back after just 7 seconds. It's absolutely ridiculous to say she's not broken. That's why she's top tier.

 

[David Viran]

Actually she basically destroys all combo characters since Luma pokes them whenever they get a grab and she has a walking shield everywhere she goes. Also, all her attacks have insane range and power. Plus, unlike Ice Climbers, Luma comes back after just 7 seconds. It's absolutely ridiculous to say she's not broken. That's why she's top tier.

Destroys combo characters? Um sheik and zss are combo characters and still combo rosa. Rosa destroys characters that have trouble getting in and/or killing luma. Luma cannot hit you every time you get a grab unless you take to long to do the throw. And luma is not comparable to nana because when nana was around then ONE grab at ANY percent could be the stock.

 

[aεrgiα]

The amount of nerfs she's been given really does matter when it affects your placement in the tier list(she went from being the best to barely top 5 due to them). Not sure about this patch, but Rosalina has pretty much been nerfed in every...single...patch...which lead to the Hoo Haa Regime's Reign and currently The Fair/Up Air to Up B Dynasties. People could be saying to nerf Zero Suit and Shiek more than Rosalina, but nope let's target the character who's not much of a threat anymore cause lol.

Literally the only thing that can be considered op is her Uair with Luma...that's it. She's, compared to Shiek, Zero Suit, Pikachu, and even Ryu(who's a tad but broken, but reasonable), is an overly nurtured top tier character who keeps on being complained about when there hasn't been a tournament win from that character in months(maybe even a year idk).
Earth's won a tournament and Zionaze said someone won one with(someone else who was in the same tournament as Earth got 5th place) recently...but not Rosalina. win tourneys on a daily basis pretty much...but not Rosalina. The 1st 2(Pitty Pat and Cloud9)are probably not so good examples since one's the only all around/balanced character and the other one's...Cloud, but the last ones are good. Those 2 mofos need to be nerfed before Rosie does, or buff the rest of the deserving characters(a certain King finally got this pleasure...)

..no, its not the amount of changes that counts its what they actually change that counts... and well, going through patch notes so i dont say something stupid, patch 1.0.4 -> mainly nerfs with a few buffs, i found no rosa changes for 1.0.5, 1.0.6 ->lumas health decreased, thats it. found nothing for 1.0.7... 1.0.8 -> buffed lumas hp and nerfed jabs kb. 1.0.9 -> no gameplay changes. 1.1.0-> rosa stayed the same. 1.1.1 ->multi jab got a small damage nerf(0.3%). 1.1.2 -> no changes really. 1.1.3-> no changes to rosa. so since patch 1.0.4 rosa got luma hp decreased, which got increased later again, for a total change of -2 hp(?), jabs knockback got decreased a small amount, still kills(and is still one of the best jabs in the game), and muti jab damage got decreased by a small amount... so yeah, i completely agree, she got nerfed into oblivion over the course of all the patches... NOT! patch 1.0.4 hit her hard, but thats a single patch, the others are nothing gamebreaking... im 100% sure any rosa main would, if given the choice, take all the nerfs from patch 1.0.5 to 1.1.3 over taking only the nerfs from 1.0.4-> yep its the amount of patches that counts right??? anyway we both agree that rosa doesnt need nerfs so i wont coment on the part about people complaining about her but not zss and sheik.

as for results... big nope... dabuz wins any tournament not attended by zero or nairo, rayquaza wins tournaments, falln has also won tournaments afaik, the only thing rosa hasnt won in over a year is majors... but sheik and diddy(zero) have won all majors bar one, which was won by zss(nairo)... i dont follow you on that logic... though i do agree that zss and sheik should be nerfed way before rosa should

Edit: i found nothing on the patches before 1.0.4 so i cant talk about that...

 

[Furret24]

Actually she basically destroys all combo characters since Luma pokes them whenever they get a grab and she has a walking shield everywhere she goes. Also, all her attacks have insane range and power. Plus, unlike Ice Climbers, Luma comes back after just 7 seconds. It's absolutely ridiculous to say she's not broken. That's why she's top tier.

It was never 7 seconds. It used to be 8 and then got changed to 13 in 1.0.4, which I find reasonable. While Rosaluma is definitely my least favorite character to play against/with, I will adimit that she isn't the best character in the game (which goes to Sheik).

Top tier characters don't have to be broken by the way. Just look at 64 Pikachu or Brawl Diddy.