Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[Bowserboy3]

Pretty sure jab goes into fsmash, but idk what specific percents.

Jab 1 isn't completely guaranteed to go into Fsmash, the opponent can actually act if they manage to DI the right way. That said, if Marth knows this, he can follow up with something else accordingly.

 

[Kasai]

+1
+1
-1

 

[Nessimator]

-1 He may have the best neutral, but a slight lack of kill power coupled with an easily intercepted recovery should keep him just below tier #1 imo.
-1 If it weren't for her tether grab and Pikachu I'd put her in the same place as Sheik, but I just can't.
+1 I still don't see why he should be placed so low. He has a combo throw and a powerful kill throw. He has short=hop auto-cancellable aerials too.

 

[Dcas]

I've been advocating that Jr. is underrated here for a while, but can you share your reasoning for why he should move out of his current tier? He has things going for him like aerial combos out of side-b and eventually up-b hammer, but he also has a weak hitbox on his head that gets hit far more often than his strong hitbox, especially when it comes to getting KO'ed. I'm not trying to be rude, but I need some good justification before I can see him moving up, because I love this character and want him to be accurately placed.

Sure i will.

He surely deserves to be in the spot that wft is atm. I dont know if he can climb an entire tier tho, mostly because his MU vs top tiers are very bad ( except luigi who is the more doable of all).

On the other hand, he is very underrated. It's hard to counter a good bjr ( except for massive zoning or a very fast character) because its kinda an unpredictable character, with rage he can kill with basically any of his aerials. His early % combo potential is huge so racking up damage is very easy. On the other hand, he is very vulnerable to shielding and his grab animation is long and has bad range.

My point is he is obviously not top tier by any means since he has obvious flaws ( laggy smashes, vulnerable to shielding, depending on clown kart,etc) but he sure is better than Robin, Marth, wft, dhd, etc. Even so, since he is not such a common character sometimes you might even win vs some high tiers due to lack of the MU. Now i would understand that he has a high skill ceiling for doing just good comparable to others that with MUCH less you get much more, this reason alone would be enough to not letting him get very high.

Personally, I'd say that Samus is the most underrated character in this list, BUUUT you did also give her an up vote. Kudos to you!

Yes indeed, i dont know if the most underrated but for sure Samus deserves way more .

 

[MarioMeteor]

A good Mewtwo will always get the disable, high tier obv.

Marth has nothing that combos into fsmash and it doesnt hit in front of him until around frame 12 so its not exactly fast enough to be easy to hit with whenever you want. He is never guaranteed to get an fsmash tipper. For comparison, mewtwos disable is 16, so its not too much of a stretch to suggest that almost every time marths gets a tipper, mewtwo couldnt land a disable.

Marths dont always get the tipper, thats such a poor argument because I can say that about any character with a non guaranteed powerful kill move. Please, show me some good youtube videos of marths winning a match and/or reliably getting a tipper. The only marth footage I ever see is of marth/lucina non-serious matches, or him losing.

I'd love to see some pro marth player killing everyone at mid % but I have never seen it. All i see are them losing and then switching to other characters.

Fool, Ganondorf is obviously the best character in the game. A good Ganondorf will always land an Aerial Reverse Warlock Punch.

 

[HerpFish]

Sure i will.

He surely deserves to be in the spot that wft is atm. I dont know if he can climb an entire tier tho, mostly because his MU vs top tiers are very bad ( except luigi who is the more doable of all).

On the other hand, he is very underrated. It's hard to counter a good bjr ( except for massive zoning or a very fast character) because its kinda an unpredictable character, with rage he can kill with basically any of his aerials. His early % combo potential is huge so racking up damage is very easy. On the other hand, he is very vulnerable to shielding and his grab animation is long and has bad range.

My point is he is obviously not top tier by any means since he has obvious flaws ( laggy smashes, vulnerable to shielding, depending on clown kart,etc) but he sure is better than Robin, Marth, wft, dhd, etc. Even so, since he is not such a common character sometimes you might even win vs some high tiers due to lack of the MU. Now i would understand that he has a high skill ceiling for doing just good comparable to others that with MUCH less you get much more, this reason alone would be enough to not letting him get very high.

First off, thank you for this. I can see Jr. taking WFT's spot with some more results (which we are getting more of), but I guess what confused me was the vote being more for intra-tier placement versus moving up the tier. Otherwise, I think that this explanation is pretty spot on. The fact that side-b can guarantee a KO at multiple percent ranges along with being bale to hold rage decently makes him quite the threat. I just wish there were more of us who use him and (hopefully) he'll get the Ike treatment next patch.

On a side note, Robin may be better than Jr. now with the recent buffs, but I'm not sure yet.

 

[Dcas]

First off, thank you for this. I can see Jr. taking WFT's spot with some more results (which we are getting more of), but I guess what confused me was the vote being more for intra-tier placement versus moving up the tier. Otherwise, I think that this explanation is pretty spot on. The fact that side-b can guarantee a KO at multiple percent ranges along with being bale to hold rage decently makes him quite the threat. I just wish there were more of us who use him and (hopefully) he'll get the Ike treatment next patch.

On a side note, Robin may be better than Jr. now with the recent buffs, but I'm not sure yet.

Yeah, well maaybe he can be where Lucario is atm at most. If they add a couple of improvements tho, he can go even higher. I think that he is the kind of character they gotta be careful of what they buff since it might end up adding just too much, like for example i think his frame data is kinda bad but is necessary, otherwise he would be too overwhelming, even adding an autocancel nair and reducing mecha koopa frames could be too much so yeah.

As for Robin i think he has better MU than Bjr so for that fact alone he might be higher but i think Bjr if using all the tools could be more dangerous than robin.

 

[Nintendoge_]

- Lack of kill options does not win him a spot above Rosa imo
+ Ranai... Just Ranai...
- Still don't think he's better than Ike...

 

[DiZ0X]

-1

+1

+1

 

[Bobert]

+
+
-

 

[Browny]

I will update this tonight... If a patch comes out on sept 30 like people expect, then we will continue this phase. if it doesnt, the next phase will be the last whole-list voting round.

Mewtwo +1
Pikachu, Lucas -1

 

[Galgatha]

+1
+1
-1

 

[Browny]

UPDATED

Yes I did put Luigi on the top of tier 2 and not the bottom of tier one, he is still in the same relative position on the list but this should hopefully stop him bouncing around so much.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

UPDATING...

...still updating

 

[Browny]

You have got to be kidding me, posting that one minute after I started updating.

Try to be funny in this thread again, and I'll try to remember to count your votes in future, no guarantee though.

 

[wedl!!]

+1
-1

 

[Bowserboy3]

VOTES

+1 : Until I see Samus atleast above Ganondorf and King Dedede, I refuse to stop voting for her.

-1: Sorry, but I just think this character has nothing incredible going for him. Ok, so he does have a decent Dthrow, but his killing moves are too slow for my liking (except Dsmash, which is ok), and his neutral is really bad and/or predictable. Add in a huge hurtbox and one of the worst air speeds, and you have combo/juggle food. As mentioned above, I think Samus (and maybe even Zelda) deserve to be above him.

+1 : I know it's pointless just voting a character up just to try and counteract some down votes, but if people actually looked what others voted for before posting, we wouldn't have had the Luigi situation would we? At this rate, Marth will be going to the bottom, which is wrong. Roy and Marth are both good characters. In reality, Roy is probably a bit better than Marth, just being slightly above him in the tier list.



EXTRA OPINIONS

: I think Lucas could do with dropping a tier. He is still good, but I don't think he is that good.

: I still don't get why Lucina is this far apart from Marth. Should be at least in tier 5 IMO, and would be sitting somewhere in the mid/top of it.

: I am not sure whether this is bias, but I feel Bowser should be also at least tier 5, albeit, probably near the bottom of it.

: Still think this guy should be higher up too.

/ : I also feel these two deserve to be in tier 3. Much better than the 4th tier IMO (better than DK for example).

: Better than Luigi in my eyes. I think she deserves to be up there in tier 1, probably the worst out of the tier though.

 

[Equin0x]

+
-
+

 

[IPoit]

+1
-1
-1

 

[Raijinken]

-1
-1
+1

 

[Nekomori]

+1
+1
+1

 

[DarkK]

+
-
+

 

[Robertos0511]

+1
+1
-1

 

[aquaticpineapples]

+
+
-

 

[TMNTSSB4]

You have got to be kidding me, posting that one minute after I started updating.

Try to be funny in this thread again, and I'll try to remember to count your votes in future, no guarantee though.

Who says I was being funny? Plus, my phone says otherwise on the minute thing...by 3 hours or so...votes?

 

[Wintermelon43]

Spoiler

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4: ( )

5:

6:

7:

8:

+1 Okay now he's too low

-1HE. IS. NOT. ANYWHERE. CLOSE. TO. THERE. AT. ALL.

+1 Haters gonna hate.

Also Browny I thought Samus got enough votes to go down? (Up votes not enough to remove her from -3)

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Spoiler

1:

2:

3:

4: ( )

5:

6:

7:

8:

+1 Okay now he's too low

-1HE. IS. NOT. ANYWHERE. CLOSE. TO. THERE. AT. ALL.

+1 Haters gonna hate.

Also Browny I thought Samus got enough votes to go down? (Up votes not enough to remove her from -3)

Kirby I agree on, Jiggs I hate(especially in lag, horrible), and Marth...idk why everyone hates on all 3 of them.

 

[Bowserboy3]

+1 Okay now he's too low

-1HE. IS. NOT. ANYWHERE. CLOSE. TO. THERE. AT. ALL.

+1 Haters gonna hate.

I honestly think you are misjudging Marth. He is actually a solid mid tiered character thanks to these buffs he's been getting. Unfortunately, unless they give him more buffs to address his poor neutral and sub par grab game etc, he won't be any higher. The thing that strikes me is that Roy is currently below him, which he clearly isn't. I think Marths placement is fine. Roy just needs to be back above him.

 

[Ze Diglett]

+1: A tier lower than Marth? Oh, SWF, how you make me chuckle sometimes... [Disclaimer: Marth and Roy are both solid characters]
+1: Self-explanatory.
+1: Not bad enough to be isolated in its own tier at the very bottom.

 

[NickRiddle]

+
+
-

 

[Peppermint1201]

-
+
+

 

[Dcas]

+1 ( deservers tier 6)
+1 ( he is a total beast, could see him reaching tier 3 bottom or t4 top)
-1 ( even tho a skilled player will land tippers, theres no way he has better neutral than roy nor killl options).

Notes:

: Even tho i feel he deserves a higher place within his tier, there are other issues that requires priority within this tier list.
: He is too high he could even drop down to t5, he has many issues
: Another candidate for bottom tier 4 or top t5, he has too many tools.

List is improving, tho i would like it to be less fragmented, like just 3 or 4 tiers:

-S tier ( characters that has no bad MU and have a good amount of positive match ups)
-A tier ( characters that are very viable and have good MU but a few sorta bad ones )
-B tier ( characters that even tho they have huge strengths they get very bad match ups again others)
-C tier( characters that struggle against most of the characters, requires huge amount of knowledge to even try to win with them).

 

[TMNTSSB4]

+1(always)
+1(shouldn't be lower than Marth)
-1(shouldn't be higher than Roy)

OTHER THOUGHTS AND JUNKIE STUFF
Doing great as always, be it from the streets or final destination.
Finally being shown some PK Love after all this time.
Should be in Tier 1 still
The Gaming Icons hould bother be in Tier 1
NO!
Needs to be near the Pitboys
Ryo shows she can be a solid mid tier
Ace will be happy
How long will you be tourmented?
Poyo better get higher people
Waka Waka...that is all

 

[Chalice]

+
-
-

 

[Dagon97]

+1
+1
-1

 

[kirby509]

+
+
+

 

[Byou]

+1
+1
+1

 

[xXx_w$$d_xXx]

+1
+1
+1

 

[Deleted member]

+
+
+

 

[atreyujames]

Yes I did put Luigi on the top of tier 2 and not the bottom of tier one, he is still in the same relative position on the list but this should hopefully stop him bouncing around so much.

Thanks for that. I tried to make everyone aware when he was about to go back up to tier 1 again, but either they passed over my comments or just really did want him up in tier one

+1: Not bad enough to be isolated in its own tier at the very bottom.

Exactly which is why...

-1: she is garbage imo. Even friends I have who play her tons agree she's probably the worst in the game
-1
-1