Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[Vyrnx]

Sigh... I leave to write a PM and come back to see that not only is Sheik worse at killing than DHD, but her recovery along with MK and G&W's is worse than DHD's...

 

[Macchiato]

She's up there because of main bias. People such as Macchieto and Ipoit can't stand saying their main somewhre other than top tier, and will just up vote them no matter what, even if she was in her own tier at the top.

> Guy who says Kirby, his main, is top 10 calls me bias

gorl pls leave.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

> Guy who says Kirby, his main, is top 10 calls me bias

gorl pls leave.

Well this is more interesting than the crap I got stuck in, but when was this said? Last time I checked, Kirby's not even top 20.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

And you're point are? Did you even watch Paragon? Shiek and Mario were both at rage, and she couldn't ko him with rage until he was at around 200%. You know you have problems killing when you can't even ko with rage mode on.

Duck Hunt's recovery isn't as slow as Olimar with 3 purple Pikmin or Pit's custom recovery. Everyone says that Pikachu has the best recovery, yet it's pretty easy to gimp/attack/reflect it. Mario's Fludd, Pit/Dark Pit using their Arms, counters, Sonic's Spring, etc. Ryu's True Shoryuken is better than Pikachu's due to it being stronger, invincibility frames, and the fact that it's a freaking shoryuken for crying out loud.

You question me about Duck Hunt, yet I sub the dog. If anything, I know more about them than you know about the whole game.

MK, G&W, and Sheik's recoveries are even easier to stop than Duck Hunt's(if Ness/Lucas was mentioned, Rosalina, Villager, and Pit would all be able to gimp him to death).

In the end, we all have opinions. I hate your opinion, and vice versa, so until Duck Hunt gets nerfed, everyone gets better buffs than them, or even taken out the game next patch, Duck Hunt will stay mid tier.

oh gahhh i dont wanna argue again but I mean half of this is completely wrong.

DHD's' might be faster than Olimar's with 3 pikmin or Pit's recovery, but do this count? An olimar is rarely gonna be forced to use his up-b with three pikmin and Pit's is a custom, not a default.

MK's is not easy to intercept. He is 4 means of recovery (all of his specials) and 5 jumps. Down-b imo is his best since you can't hit him (like a teleport) and you can attack out of it for a surprise. His up-b has a big hitbox, tornado does a lot of damage, and side-b is good for snapping. G&W can attack out of his up-b and it has ridiculous range, and Sheik's up-b kills at 90%, is a teleport (can't be hit out of), and goes a far distance. Her down-b is also amazing because it goes far and has a hitbox, and good for mixing up.

Also, Pikachu EASILY has the best recovery in the game. His up-b goes two directions and has insane reach, has a hitbox (a jank hitbox), and it is crazily fast. To add on to this, his down-b gives him height and is hard to intercept because you can die extremely early if you miss, and his side-b has good range (like really good). A mario will only hit a fludd when a pikachu recovers high (rarely), if he gets hit out of it for recovering high (again, rarely) he can do it again and live, etc. Shoryuken is easily gimped, has less range, and doesn't snap to the ledge properly. It is EASILY worse.

We all have opinions, but yours are flat out wrong. ZeRo, ESAM, and other big competitive players for one have said Pikachu has the best recovery, you are stating wrong facts about recoveries and showing everyone you don't know anything, and you're doing it while thinking we agree with you. We don't.

Same thing happened with the Kirby argument. I gave a knowledgeable post about my opinion about Kirby. I proved that I had a decent amount of knowledge of the character on the simple fact that I knew his mechanics, tech, situations, etc. I proved that he is a character I can talk about. You haven't, with any character so far. Your DHD being mid tier arguments have literally been 'He is mid tier because he is higher than low tiers' and 'his neutral is not bad because it is better than the low tiers', but haven't given enough evidence on your knowledge, nor back-up of your arguments, to prove any of this.

Just please. When I gave good evidence about my opinion you shut me down and started a flame war, but when Vyrnx states his opinion without facts you have to ask him about it and start arguing. People have opinions and you don't have to be right. Jesus lol.

 

[XenoBlur]

+1
+1
-1

Shulk is underrated. Zelda is good, She is better than Samus. Well thats my opinion
Link isn't that good

 

[Dark_Link05]

-
-
+

 

[TMNTSSB4]

oh gahhh i dont wanna argue again but I mean half of this is completely wrong.

DHD's' might be faster than Olimar's with 3 pikmin or Pit's recovery, but do this count? An olimar is rarely gonna be forced to use his up-b with three pikmin and Pit's is a custom, not a default.

MK's is not easy to intercept. He is 4 means of recovery (all of his specials) and 5 jumps. Down-b imo is his best since you can't hit him (like a teleport) and you can attack out of it for a surprise. His up-b has a big hitbox, tornado does a lot of damage, and side-b is good for snapping. G&W can attack out of his up-b and it has ridiculous range, and Sheik's up-b kills at 90%, is a teleport (can't be hit out of), and goes a far distance. Her down-b is also amazing because it goes far and has a hitbox, and good for mixing up.

Also, Pikachu EASILY has the best recovery in the game. His up-b goes two directions and has insane reach, has a hitbox (a jank hitbox), and it is crazily fast. To add on to this, his down-b gives him height and is hard to intercept because you can die extremely early if you miss, and his side-b has good range (like really good). A mario will only hit a fludd when a pikachu recovers high (rarely), if he gets hit out of it for recovering high (again, rarely) he can do it again and live, etc. Shoryuken is easily gimped, has less range, and doesn't snap to the ledge properly. It is EASILY worse.

We all have opinions, but yours are flat out wrong. ZeRo, ESAM, and other big competitive players for one have said Pikachu has the best recovery, you are stating wrong facts about recoveries and showing everyone you don't know anything, and you're doing it while thinking we agree with you. We don't.

Same thing happened with the Kirby argument. I gave a knowledgeable post about my opinion about Kirby. I proved that I had a decent amount of knowledge of the character on the simple fact that I knew his mechanics, tech, situations, etc. I proved that he is a character I can talk about. You haven't, with any character so far. Your DHD being mid tier arguments have literally been 'He is mid tier because he is higher than low tiers' and 'his neutral is not bad because it is better than the low tiers', but haven't given enough evidence on your knowledge, nor back-up of your arguments, to prove any of this.

Just please. When I gave good evidence about my opinion you shut me down and started a flame war, but when Vyrnx states his opinion without facts you have to ask him about it and start arguing. People have opinions and you don't have to be right. Jesus lol.

That flame war ended up with us ending it, and then it'll be used alot in the future about Kirby...and anything else.

Plus, I already said we all have opinions and that we hated each others...but it continues! Oh well

 

[Bowserboy3]

+1 : No way she isn't in the top tier. Albeit, probably the worst out of the top tier, but certainly in the top tier.

+1 : I wish I could someday change up having to vote for Samus, but I can't enforce enough what she can do. I'm not being biased and like "Samus is really high tier, you're all wrong", no. Samus isn't fantastic, but is still REALLY usable (in my honest opinion, actually a good solid character). Samus isn't in the bottom tier 8. She deserves to be tier 7 or even tier 6 (though she would be near the bottom of it). I still find it hard to believe how people think Samus is worse than Ganon, Swordfighter and Dedede, who I think Samus beats them all easily. Debatable whether she is better than Mewtwo (who I also believe is still decent, regardless of his weight), and the Palutena matchup is pretty even in my eyes. Samus is much better than Mii Gunner, no questions asked. Zelda is... a tough decision. I really like using Zelda, I use her nearly as much as Samus these days, and do believe she is pretty good. In fact I think that Zelda also beats a few characters, namely Ganon, Gunner, and Mewtwo, but in the grand scale, I think Samus has an easier matchup spread than Zelda (Like Samus has an easier time against Falcon, Luigi, Ganon, Bowser, Roy etc than Zelda IMO), and thus, deserves to be higher than Zelda.

+1 : Gah, I can't decide on a 3rd vote between Marth and Bowser (somebody do me a favour and vote Bowser up, thanks, love you lots). I think I said last time that it wouldn't be too far off in the future to see Marth in tier 4. I'll be honest, if Roy can be in tier 4, I think Marth can too. So Roy has a bit easier time with combos I hear you say? And has a super powerful blade? Well Marth actually has an off stage game (and one of the best at that), something Roy struggles at. And Marth's sweetspot (tipper) is actually more powerful than Roy's, probably due to the fact that Roy's is a bit easier to land. Generally, I think that Marth and Roy are pretty even these days, with Roy maybe edging out Marth just slightly, even though I think Marth beats him in the Marth:Roy matchup. Even if Marth doesn't move up to tier 4, I still think that tier 5 is a fair place for him. I just think there is more potential in Marth, and it is hype to see people giving him more of a chance nowadays.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Its bolded
Its capitalised
Its italicised
Its underlined

Exactly how much more clearer did I need to make it that the characters are not ranked within tiers? That is for the next phase.

I've explained it before. Characters only move within tiers when they actually move up a rank. if 3 characters in one tier go up to the next, they are ordered by who got more votes. Any characters within a tier that didnt get enough to move, stand still. Its almost impossible to rank characters within tiers every single update, thats what the next phase is for where we focus on one tier at a time, starting from the bottom.

I know, I'm saying the characters are in some sort of order (with some ties), but these numbers aren't the real tiers.

Villager's recovery isn't the best in the game. Pikachu's is the best. Sheik, MK, and G&W are all probably better. Anyway.
I'm 90% sure that DHD's up-b is the single slowest up-b recovery in the game and it doesn't even have a hitbox... How can you say it's good and pretend like you know anything about DHD.

And did you just say Sheik has trouble killing... Omg... With her edge guarding and 50-50s? Are you even mentioning Sheik's kill capabilities in the same sentence as DHD's? You're actually comparing the two?

I'm just sitting here and the more I read this post of yours the more I just... Wow... You didn't even make any good points at all...

You say DHD is better than low tier, and didn't give one reason with evidence... DHD has long aerial chains? Show me a video of it in competitive play. Then show me tournament results that back up DHD being mid tier.

Anything beyond this I will take to PM, but I couldn't let that go unchallenged in such a widely read thread

Villager's go the highest, so it is the best.

> Guy who says Kirby, his main, is top 10 calls me bias

gorl pls leave.

Like FOUR MONTHS ago, I think he's 29 now

 

[Macchiato]

+1

 

[Vyrnx]

Villager's go the highest, so it is the best.

There is so much more to recovery than distance.

 

[Zeth444]

-1
+1
+1

 

[TMNTSSB4]

+1
+1
+1

There is so much more to recovery than distance.

Yet it's more important than a simple hitbox. Otherwise, Little Mac and Donkey Kong would have some of the best recoveries. Distance is way better no matter how fast it is.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

+1
+1
+1


Yet it's more important than a simple hitbox. Otherwise, Little Mac and Donkey Kong would have some of the best recoveries. Distance is way better no matter how fast it is.

No there isn't. Both are taken into account but not having a hitbox definitely is bad for your recovery. Mac's has no distance so it is really bad, but a character who doesn't have a hitbox on their recovery is almost as bad.

pikachu has distance + hitbox, making it one (if not the) best. Duck Hunt's is slow, average range, and no hitbox. Recovery means actually making it back to the stage if you didn't know. If 9/10 times duck hunt gets offstage he can't recover, his recovery is bad. Almost every character can drop down and spike/b-air DH out of his recovery. That makes it bad.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Almost every character can drop down and spike/b-air DH out of his recovery. That makes it bad.

Every single recovery in the game can be spiked...except Ryu's True Shoryuken(as in forward, down, down-forward)until it's proven(which might be a while).

 

[atreyujames]

+1
+1
+1

+1
+1
+1

Ugh didn't you already vote... like... yesterday?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Ugh didn't you already vote... like... yesterday?

Ugh, why you asking? Like...it's called a free country with a once a day rule, didn't do it twice today.

 

[Rinku リンク]

+1
Honestly doesn't get enough representation and credit for what he's capable of.

+1
Not sure how she's an entire tier down from Marth considering the range she has is only slightly shorter.
-1
Over rated inferior Mario clone.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Ugh, why you asking? Like...it's called a free country with a once a day rule, didn't do it twice today.

No, once each voting period.

 

[atreyujames]

Ugh, why you asking? Like...it's called a free country with a once a day rule, didn't do it twice today.

HA

 

[TMNTSSB4]

No, once each voting period.

To late now M8. Good thing I can still do thought...but if it's only once a voting period, then why have there been alot of votes less than a day old...besides me once a day? Not saying now, but like last month and stuff like that.

HA

Don't hate the comment, hate the freedom.

 

[atreyujames]

To late now M8. Good thing I can still do thought...but if it's only once a voting period, then why have there been alot of votes less than a day old...besides me once a day? Not saying now, but like last month and stuff like that.


Don't hate the comment, hate the freedom.

Not a clue why, but It doesn't really change the rules. ALL HAIL BRITANNI- ugh I mean... SWF

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Not a clue why, but It doesn't really change the rules. ALL HAIL BRITANNI- ugh I mean... SWF

All hail indeed...all hail indeed...to Donatello of course, not SWF.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Every single recovery in the game can be spiked...except Ryu's True Shoryuken(as in forward, down, down-forward)until it's proven(which might be a while).

They can, but it is significantly harder and more risky, since it doesn't leave your hurbox wide open. Spiking Duck Hunt's slow no hitbox recovery then a fast long range up-b.

 

[Qwibbles]

While I agree that Luigi should've moved down a bit, I think he's too low now.

+
+
-

 

[atreyujames]

Just thought I'd mention that Luigi now has 9 upvotes for this round. 1 more and he goes up to tier 1... again. If that's what you want then go ahead and upvote. But if you prefer him to be tier 2 like I know a lot of us do, then now might be the time to stop upvoting, or hell even start to downvote him a little.

 

[monzer]

I think people really underestimate the usefulness of a long distance recovery. While you won't live any longer, you can gimp or spike much safer. I can't even count all the kills I would have been able to get if Captin Falcon or Mario had a recovery that covered much more distance.

Also recovery doesn't matter after a certain threshold. Of course Pikachu, Villager, King Dedede and Shiek are getting back to the stage.

On the terms of Duck Hunt, he really just strikes me as a worse version of Villager. I see him as a low mid tier.

 

[Zionaze]

in terms of "best" recovery I believe have the best. When was the last time you saw any of these guys get gimped/spiked.

Distance is cool and all like but your going to take some % before you make it back on the stage.
Invincibility or hitboxes are cool like but your most likely not going to make it back.

The combination of the 2 is what makes a recovery "good" but its not just that. The ability to mixup your recovery and still be safe is what makes it truly shine

 

[Vyrnx]

Villager's recovery is still top 5. It isn't just his up b when it comes to recovering--it's using his side b and aerials to cover his options. He has a lot of good moves when it comes to this. If you replaced his up b with like, Mega Man's, his recovery would still be pretty good.
But his up b is also really good. It doesn't have invincibility or a hotbox, but it has range and speed, which sets it apart from other similar recoveries, notably DHD. And you can stall when recovering.
Using moves to cover options when recovering is something to be considered for all characters, not just Villager.
It's true Villager gets hit off stage much more than Sheik, but hitting Villager will not gimp Villager. Hitting Sheik (which keep in mind is very very hard) can potentially gimp Sheik. Regardless both recoveries are amazing, Sheik's probably better, but it was worth mentioning.

The other characters you mentioned are all very true Zionaze . In addition to those definitely Greninja is top 5ish, and Pacman and Jiggs are both up there. Maybe Ryu?

Also Ryu's up b is not the only up b with invincibility ofc. G&W for instance, and several others.

 

[Zionaze]

Right i knew i was missing the frog and pizza. But jiggs? I feel like jigs along with yoshi is debatable in terms of recovery. The list I provided was for the safest/fastest/longest recovery and will most likely not get hit.

 

[Jiggly]

Its been a while since Ive been here, tier list is looking a bit better

-1
+1
+1

 

[atreyujames]

GAH. someone upvoted him T_T dammit. Come people, Luigi needs your downvotes to go to tier 2

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Villager's recovery is still top 5. It isn't just his up b when it comes to recovering--it's using his side b and aerials to cover his options. He has a lot of good moves when it comes to this. If you replaced his up b with like, Mega Man's, his recovery would still be pretty good.
But his up b is also really good. It doesn't have invincibility or a hotbox, but it has range and speed, which sets it apart from other similar recoveries, notably DHD. And you can stall when recovering.
Using moves to cover options when recovering is something to be considered for all characters, not just Villager.
It's true Villager gets hit off stage much more than Sheik, but hitting Villager will not gimp Villager. Hitting Sheik (which keep in mind is very very hard) can potentially gimp Sheik. Regardless both recoveries are amazing, Sheik's probably better, but it was worth mentioning.

The other characters you mentioned are all very true Zionaze . In addition to those definitely Greninja is top 5ish, and Pacman and Jiggs are both up there. Maybe Ryu?

Also Ryu's up b is not the only up b with invincibility ofc. G&W for instance, and several others.

I don't think people would like Ryu if his True Shoryuken was the only recovery with invincibility, but his is definitely top 5(both shoryukens...thought true is better).

When has Shiek's recovery ever been hard? I have to fight her alot, and it's easy as Pit,Ryu, Orr anyone who doesn't have to worry about not making it to the stage.

 

[Jiggly]

GAH. someone upvoted him T_T dammit. Come people, Luigi needs your downvotes to go to tier 2

But he's already tier 3 :/

 

[TMNTSSB4]

But he's already tier 3 :/

Then let them down vote him to tier 4, just because they like to downvote.

Also, Palutena is hotter than Jigglypuff...fight me

 

[atreyujames]

But he's already tier 3 :/

Yes but if you look back and count over this voting round he had 9 votes until you voted him up. He now has 10. 10 will take him up 2 tiers. I already said this earlier =P. Do we really want him to go jumping back and forth between 3 and 1? If you want him in 1 then by all means ignore me =)

 

[Vyrnx]

Right i knew i was missing the frog and pizza. But jiggs? I feel like jigs along with yoshi is debatable in terms of recovery. The list I provided was for the safest/fastest/longest recovery and will most likely not get hit.

It's debatable. IMO, though Jiggs recovery isn't interesting or anything like that, its a combination of air speed, six jumps, and good aerials that makes her recovery good. Unlike other characters who have multiple jumps, all of Jiggs jumps go full speed and height, so she can weave in and out, air dodge almost as much as she wants, and even if she gets hit, she can make it back usually. Though gimmicky up bs like G&W and Pika are better overall.

TMNTSSB4 I'm pretty sure Sheik's up-b is only vincible for one frame. If you mess up, it can kill you, and the windbox when she reappears makes her so hard to punish. I mean, Sheik's up b is relatively safe on stage, let alone off. The thing is, you probably won't be in any position to punish her up b at startup because she will have knocked you away or forced an air dodge with the ridiculous range and disjoint on one of her aerials like fair. Also wall jump and bouncing fish help a lot. She can pretty much recover from almost anywhere at any angle.

What sets apart many of the best recoveries is their nonlinear-ness. Their are exceptions, like Zelda and G&W, but you aren't going to intercept any of those within reason and the risk is too great. Pikachu, MK, Sheik, ZSS can do pretty much whatever they want off stage and recover anyway they want. They are very nearly ungimpable.

Ryu's recovery is linear for sure, but invincibility and the risk of edge guarding may make his recovery top 10-15. For now though, it isn't the same level of Pikachu/MK/Sheik/Greninja/etc.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Villager's recovery is still top 5. It isn't just his up b when it comes to recovering--it's using his side b and aerials to cover his options. He has a lot of good moves when it comes to this. If you replaced his up b with like, Mega Man's, his recovery would still be pretty good.
But his up b is also really good. It doesn't have invincibility or a hotbox, but it has range and speed, which sets it apart from other similar recoveries, notably DHD. And you can stall when recovering.
Using moves to cover options when recovering is something to be considered for all characters, not just Villager.
It's true Villager gets hit off stage much more than Sheik, but hitting Villager will not gimp Villager. Hitting Sheik (which keep in mind is very very hard) can potentially gimp Sheik. Regardless both recoveries are amazing, Sheik's probably better, but it was worth mentioning.

The other characters you mentioned are all very true Zionaze . In addition to those definitely Greninja is top 5ish, and Pacman and Jiggs are both up there. Maybe Ryu?

Also Ryu's up b is not the only up b with invincibility ofc. G&W for instance, and several others.

Greninja's isn't top 5. Side-b is good but used improperly to recover and you will get heavily punished, and up-b doesnt have a hitbox anywhere so it auto makes it not top 5. Not having a hitbox = huge potential to die when you're offstage.

 

[Jiggly]

Greninja's isn't top 5. Side-b is good but used improperly to recover and you will get heavily punished, and up-b doesnt have a hitbox anywhere so it auto makes it not top 5. Not having a hitbox = huge potential to die when you're offstage.

Rosalina says otherwise

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Rosalina says otherwise

Well its still easy to hit rosa out of her up-b. You main jigglypuff so you would know :o