Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[Zerp]

This entire time, you STILL havn't noticed the characters in each tier are usally in order (With a few ties)?

I thought they weren't though since Browny said they aren't?

THIS IS CUSTOMS OFF. CHARACTERS ARE NOT RANKED WITHIN TIERS (FOR NOW)

I apologize for my ignorance, but, I thought this was up to date? Honestly, I'm pretty confused since now that you mentioned it, it does kind of look like they are ordered. Am I missing something?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I thought they weren't though since Browny said they aren't?

I apologize for my ignorance, but, I thought this was up to date? Honestly, I'm pretty confused since now that you mentioned it, it does kind of look like they are ordered. Am I missing something?

Who knows anything anymore?

 

[Paxadin]

noice generalization

You mean like most people who down vote Zelda?
You can't tell me I'm generalizing when all these people are doing the same thing.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

if kirby gets into top 25 I am literally going to do nothing but silently judge everyone

 

[Deleted member]

You mean like most people who down vote Zelda?
You can't tell me I'm generalizing when all these people are doing the same thing.

Or maybe they're downvoting Zelda because she's a bad character? Nairo and Cosmo do well with her sure, but that's because of their skill and not because she has "potential" like many try to say. It's like TheReflexWonder doing so well with Pokemon Trainer during Brawl's competitive scene. Badly designed character taken on by a great player.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Or maybe they're downvoting Zelda because she's a bad character? Nairo and Cosmo do well with her sure, but that's because of their skill and not because she has "potential" like many try to say. It's like TheReflexWonder doing so well with Pokemon Trainer during Brawl's competitive scene. Badly designed character taken on by a great player.

Nairo doesn't even play Zelda anymore too, so there's that.

 

[Wintermelon43]

I thought they weren't though since Browny said they aren't?

I apologize for my ignorance, but, I thought this was up to date? Honestly, I'm pretty confused since now that you mentioned it, it does kind of look like they are ordered. Am I missing something?

He mentioned that during the beginning of this 2.0 list voting.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Nairo doesn't even play Zelda anymore too, so there's that.

He killed off Zelda and Robin
Pit is being close to dead
Dark Pit is a very rare sight to see
ZSS is pretty much exclusively used by him...
Nairo, what are you doing?

 

[Zionaze]

He killed off Zelda and Robin
Pit is being close to dead
Dark Pit is a very rare sight to see
ZSS is pretty much exclusively used by him...
Nairo, what are you doing?

Tryna win

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Tryna win

I mean in general

 

[Zionaze]

Still tryna win

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Still tryna win

So playing for fun without caring about winning is still "tryna win"?

 

[Paxadin]

It would be great if you guys would stop typing out a single sentence to talk to each other instead of contributing a single bit to the thread.
At least people trying to criticize others for their votes are staying relevant to the thread topic.
I mean, there's private messaging for this.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

It would be great if you guys would stop typing out a single sentence to talk to each other instead of contributing a single bit to the thread.
At least people trying to criticize others for their votes are staying relevant to the thread topic.
I mean, there's private messaging for this.

This is the internet. So far, everytime there's been an argument on this thread, noone has used private messages, and quoted instead.

 

[Zionaze]

It would be great if you guys would stop typing out a single sentence to talk to each other instead of contributing a single bit to the thread.
At least people trying to criticize others for their votes are staying relevant to the thread topic.
I mean, there's private messaging for this.

Would be great if everyone can follow the rules and whatnot but things just don't work that way.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

Looks like a new voting cycle has started. Ok, I'm in.

+1
+1
+1

My major goal here is to elevate characters I feel are underrated. My reasoning on these...

Robin: She's close to the right spot, but when I think of her quality as of 1.1.0 I feel her improved throw, damage buffs, and projectile improvements justify putting her in the lower end of Tier 4. No higher than that, but that's where I feel she goes.

Palutena: She is better than people think, even with Customs OFF. A decent grab, a jab that leads to powerful mixups, u-smash, almost nothing but good aerials, and an improved utilt lead me to feel she belongs around tier 5 or 6, not 'one of the worst in the game.' The major problem here is exposure, good Defaultena's aren't getting much air time (partially because there aren't many of them) so people just don't know.

Wii Fit Trainer: Also slightly underrated, belongs in tier 4. Excellent projectiles, decent off-stage game, and unusual attack angles make her better than she appears. The recent string of massive buffs helped. She is not better than tier 4, but I do not think she is tier 5 or worse.

Honorable Mentions (not voting for these, just talking):

Swordfighter - Only this bad in 1111-only environments. As there is some ongoing debate as to how Mii move selection should be handled, I will comment on it; he's actually a decent character aside from his awful Up-B 1. Let him swap it out for anything else and he becomes decent, easily tier 5-ish and better than many of the characters ranked above him. He's a well rounded design with reasonable answers for most problems.

Duck Hunt - Rated too high. His recovery is awful, his kill moves take forever to work and people often fall out of them. Honestly needs to go down to tier 6 or 7 unless we see tournament results contradicting this.

Mewtwo - Rated too low. This character is not worse than Jigglypuff. Mewtwo has some problems, but most of his moves work like they're supposed to and he has good reach on his pokes, and good power on his kill moves. Belongs around tier 6.

 

[HerpFish]

+ Charizard has really become a threat now, compared to what he was before. I can see him being up a tier, especially as his new abilities are fleshed out.
+ Again, some great tools to use that, in my mind, puts him above others in the tier where he currently resides.
+ She might not be great, but she's better than the others in her tier that she's in, even without customs.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Looks like a new voting cycle has started. Ok, I'm in.

+1
+1
+1

My major goal here is to elevate characters I feel are underrated. My reasoning on these...

Robin: She's close to the right spot, but when I think of her quality as of 1.1.0 I feel her improved throw, damage buffs, and projectile improvements justify putting her in the lower end of Tier 4. No higher than that, but that's where I feel she goes.

Palutena: She is better than people think, even with Customs OFF. A decent grab, a jab that leads to powerful mixups, u-smash, almost nothing but good aerials, and an improved utilt lead me to feel she belongs around tier 5 or 6, not 'one of the worst in the game.' The major problem here is exposure, good Defaultena's aren't getting much air time (partially because there aren't many of them) so people just don't know.

Wii Fit Trainer: Also slightly underrated, belongs in tier 4. Excellent projectiles, decent off-stage game, and unusual attack angles make her better than she appears. The recent string of massive buffs helped. She is not better than tier 4, but I do not think she is tier 5 or worse.

Honorable Mentions (not voting for these, just talking):

Swordfighter - Only this bad in 1111-only environments. As there is some ongoing debate as to how Mii move selection should be handled, I will comment on it; he's actually a decent character aside from his awful Up-B 1. Let him swap it out for anything else and he becomes decent, easily tier 5-ish and better than many of the characters ranked above him. He's a well rounded design with reasonable answers for most problems.

Duck Hunt - Rated too high. His recovery is awful, his kill moves take forever to work and people often fall out of them. Honestly needs to go down to tier 6 or 7 unless we see tournament results contradicting this.

Mewtwo - Rated too low. This character is not worse than Jigglypuff. Mewtwo has some problems, but most of his moves work like they're supposed to and he has good reach on his pokes, and good power on his kill moves. Belongs around tier 6.

Duck Hunt has the third best recovery dude. Also, this list is customs off too.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

My comments stated as much; 'I am voting Palutena up and saying this is my vote in a Customs OFF environment' because a lot of people presume you must be talking about Customs On Palutena.

Duck Hunt can't even protect himself on the way up short of some odd can shenanigans. I would need this explained to me before I call it 'third best'.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

My comments stated as much; 'I am voting Palutena up and saying this is my vote in a Customs OFF environment' because a lot of people presume you must be talking about Customs On Palutena.

Duck Hunt can't even protect himself on the way up short of some odd can shenanigans. I would need this explained to me before I call it 'third best'.

Pit/Dark Pit and Rosalina can't protect themselves with their recoveries, yet they're top 16. Duck Hunt might not be top 16, but his recovery is great. If his recovery sucks, then so does Pit's and Rosalina's.

 

[CleanOgre]

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Besides Ally, I can't think of a good Mario player who doesn't lose to a bad Samus at a Xanadu. DK and G&W definitely need some rep.

Other notable Mario mains are Zenyou, Xzax, and XeroXen. Zenyou and Xzax both placed Top 32 in Paragon.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

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Other notable Mario mains are Zenyou, Xzax, and XeroXen. Zenyou and Xzax both placed Top 32 in Paragon.

Didn't see Top 32, was busy during that time...glad I didn't miss Mario vs Ryu though. Most hype Sm4sh game to me since Pit vs G&W.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

Pit and Rosalina also have kill moves that work correctly, so their exploitable recovery isn't as crippling because they can carry out their game plans to conclusion. Duck Hunt scores tons of damage, then has major trouble finishing the stock. Unless there have been some matches lately showing otherwise? This is not sarcasm, but genuine inquiry; I'd actually like to be wrong about Duck Hunt.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Duck Hunt has the third best recovery dude. Also, this list is customs off too.

What? No lol, his recovery is absolute ****. No hitbox, slow, average range. If their character isn't Little Mac or Dr. Mario you are screwed if you ever get off stage. Spikes, b-airs, even footstools man. Bad recovery.

 

[Wintermelon43]

What? No lol, his recovery is absolute ****. No hitbox, slow, average range. If their character isn't Little Mac or Dr. Mario you are screwed if you ever get off stage. Spikes, b-airs, even footstools man. Bad recovery.

It goes really high up. It can't be bad until it doesn't give much distance.

My comments stated as much; 'I am voting Palutena up and saying this is my vote in a Customs OFF environment' because a lot of people presume you must be talking about Customs On Palutena.

Duck Hunt can't even protect himself on the way up short of some odd can shenanigans. I would need this explained to me before I call it 'third best'.

That includes Miis. I know you said that, I was just saying that Swordfighter counts as 1111

 

[Ze Diglett]

+1Muh buffs
+1Savage memes can't melt Mac's absurdly strong attacks and stupid frame data.
+1Again, I just can't believe a character with frame data akin to Mario's can be considered low-tier...
Dear top half of the list, literally never change.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Pit and Rosalina also have kill moves that work correctly, so their exploitable recovery isn't as crippling because they can carry out their game plans to conclusion. Duck Hunt scores tons of damage, then has major trouble finishing the stock. Unless there have been some matches lately showing otherwise? This is not sarcasm, but genuine inquiry; I'd actually like to be wrong about Duck Hunt.

Pit has to work his wings off to get people in ko percentage, be it offensive and defensive, Duck Hunt has to do the same, but mostly defensively. If anything, Mr.Peppers and his ducks(Quakers or something)would be mid tier at best.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

Well, the reason I mentioned Swordfighter is some venues are starting to reject the idea that the Miis have true 'default moves.' It's uncommon, certainly nowhere near the norm yet, but I brought it up as a point of consideration. I'm saying even 1111-Swordfighter isn't THAT bad, even if his up-B 1 is terrible. He's not Tier 7 bad. I'd put him around 5 or 6, and would be willing to consider 4 if he's allowed to pick his moves freely.

 

[Vyrnx]

Duck Hunt has the third best recovery dude. Also, this list is customs off too.

Duck Hunt has one of the worst recoveries in the game. It's really bad.
It's an unpopular opinion, I know, but Duck Hunt's initial reception at launch is keeping him too high in tier lists right now. He should start being considered as a low-bottom tier character~~so many reasons, but I don't want to make such a lengthy post on a thread meant for voting.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Duck Hunt has one of the worst recoveries in the game. It's really bad.
It's an unpopular opinion, I know, but Duck Hunt's initial reception at launch is keeping him too high in tier lists right now. He should start being considered as a low-bottom tier character~~so many reasons, but I don't want to make such a lengthy post on a thread meant for voting.

Why do you think Duck Hunt has one of the worst recoveries and should be bottom tier? Ya better have actual and good reasoning behind this.

 

[Zionaze]

unlike olimars recovery that is like the closest thing to duckhunts, he can't act out of it nor can he make sharp turns as his aerial mobility isn't fantastic. your either going to get stagespiked or hit. Although it isn't like ROBs where he runs out of fuel so you don't need to worry about that.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

unlike olimars recovery that is like the closest thing to duckhunts, he can't act out of it nor can he make sharp turns as his aerial mobility isn't fantastic. your either going to get stagespiked or hit. Although it isn't like ROBs where he runs out of fuel so you don't need to worry about that.

Still better than Rosalina's mobility. She, like Pit/Dark Pit, can barely move much and doesn't have a hitbox either.

 

[Vyrnx]

Why do you think Duck Hunt has one of the worst recoveries and should be bottom tier? Ya better have actual and good reasoning behind this.

His neutral is strong and it's what's going for him. It may even make him appear to be better than the low tiers. However, his neutral has been shown to be weaker over time rather than stronger as many predicted at launch. Don't get me wrong, it's still good, but not amazing enough to compete with some of the top tiers.

Past his neutral, he doesn't have much... No great aerials or combo breakers, a really bad grab game (which is so important in this game), pretty sub par landing options, his bad recovery, and so much trouble killing. I mean, he really struggles to get the kill. If his smash attacks kill a player, then that person had to really mess up. Can is okay but it kills at like 130% and isn't very reliable by any means.

As for his recovery, I'm not even gonna bother because I thought this discussion was over 8 months ago... Tell me why you think it isn't bad and ya better have actual good reasoning behind this...

 

[Zionaze]

Still better than Rosalina's mobility. She, like Pit/Dark Pit, can barely move much and doesn't have a hitbox either.

What? You cant even compare those 2 since no one recovers high with rosa/pit. And neither pit nor rosa have good recoverys in the first place. Good as in hard to intercept. Distance alone isn't what makes a recovery good.

 

[Browny]

He mentioned that during the beginning of this 2.0 list voting.

Its bolded
Its capitalised
Its italicised
Its underlined

Exactly how much more clearer did I need to make it that the characters are not ranked within tiers? That is for the next phase.

I've explained it before. Characters only move within tiers when they actually move up a rank. if 3 characters in one tier go up to the next, they are ordered by who got more votes. Any characters within a tier that didnt get enough to move, stand still. Its almost impossible to rank characters within tiers every single update, thats what the next phase is for where we focus on one tier at a time, starting from the bottom.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

What? You cant even compare those 2 since no one recovers high with rosa/pit. And neither pit nor rosa have good recoverys in the first place. Good as in hard to intercept. Distance alone isn't what makes a recovery good.

If that statement was true, then Villager wouldn't have the best recovery in the game. The fact that you'd say that Pit doesn't have a good recovery just because it's only distance is a load of crap.

His neutral is strong and it's what's going for him. It may even make him appear to be better than the low tiers. However, his neutral has been shown to be weaker over time rather than stronger as many predicted at launch. Don't get me wrong, it's still good, but not amazing enough to compete with some of the top tiers.

Past his neutral, he doesn't have much... No great aerials or combo breakers, a really bad grab game (which is so important in this game), pretty sub par landing options, his bad recovery, and so much trouble killing. I mean, he really struggles to get the kill. If his smash attacks kill a player, then that person had to really mess up. Can is okay but it kills at like 130% and isn't very reliable by any means.

As for his recovery, I'm not even gonna bother because I thought this discussion was over 8 months ago... Tell me why you think it isn't bad and ya better have actual good reasoning behind this...

His neutral looks like he's better than low tier characters because he is better than them. The only reason why it looks weaker is because only DunnoBro, MVD(subbing),and Guy play the duo. Pit's Upperdash kos at 130%, and noone has a problem with that, the cans are like fireballs and arrows, not meant to be the best ko move.

Have you ever used Duck Hunt before? In good hands, you can do a very long airials chain combo(so long that I'm not gonna type it in). Shiek has trouble killing, watch Mr.R vs Ally for example. Besides fair to bouncing fish or D-throw to uair, she ain't got crap. If someone gets ko'd to a smash attack, it's called being read like a book.h

I'd rather not look for an 8 month old discussion, so I'll just explain why.

Duck Hunt's recovery, like Rosalina's or even Sonic(which has no hitbox even though he can do an airial after the animation finishes), has to be used at the right time and moved in the right direction. It may not have a hitbox(nor every recovery needs a hitbox just to satisfy people, that's what customs are for), but it still gets good distance and if timed right, can move past alot of moves.

 

[Vyrnx]

Villager's recovery isn't the best in the game. Pikachu's is the best. Sheik, MK, and G&W are all probably better. Anyway.
I'm 90% sure that DHD's up-b is the single slowest up-b recovery in the game and it doesn't even have a hitbox... How can you say it's good and pretend like you know anything about DHD.

And did you just say Sheik has trouble killing... Omg... With her edge guarding and 50-50s? Are you even mentioning Sheik's kill capabilities in the same sentence as DHD's? You're actually comparing the two?

I'm just sitting here and the more I read this post of yours the more I just... Wow... You didn't even make any good points at all...

You say DHD is better than low tier, and didn't give one reason with evidence... DHD has long aerial chains? Show me a video of it in competitive play. Then show me tournament results that back up DHD being mid tier.

Anything beyond this I will take to PM, but I couldn't let that go unchallenged in such a widely read thread

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Villager's recovery isn't the best in the game. Pikachu's is the best. Sheik, MK, and G&W are all probably better. Anyway.
I'm 90% sure that DHD's up-b is the single slowest up-b recovery in the game and it doesn't even have a hitbox... How can you say it's good and pretend like you know anything about DHD.

And did you just say Sheik has trouble killing... Omg... With her edge guarding and 50-50s? Are you even mentioning Sheik's kill capabilities in the same sentence as DHD's? You're actually comparing the two?

I'm just sitting here and the more I read this post of yours the more I just... Wow... You didn't even make any good points at all...

Anything beyond this I will take to PM, but I couldn't let that go unchallenged in such a widely read thread

And you're point are? Did you even watch Paragon? Shiek and Mario were both at rage, and she couldn't ko him with rage until he was at around 200%. You know you have problems killing when you can't even ko with rage mode on.

Duck Hunt's recovery isn't as slow as Olimar with 3 purple Pikmin or Pit's custom recovery. Everyone says that Pikachu has the best recovery, yet it's pretty easy to gimp/attack/reflect it. Mario's Fludd, Pit/Dark Pit using their Arms, counters, Sonic's Spring, etc. Ryu's True Shoryuken is better than Pikachu's due to it being stronger, invincibility frames, and the fact that it's a freaking shoryuken for crying out loud.

You question me about Duck Hunt, yet I sub the dog. If anything, I know more about them than you know about the whole game.

MK, G&W, and Sheik's recoveries are even easier to stop than Duck Hunt's(if Ness/Lucas was mentioned, Rosalina, Villager, and Pit would all be able to gimp him to death).

In the end, we all have opinions. I hate your opinion, and vice versa, so until Duck Hunt gets nerfed, everyone gets better buffs than them, or even taken out the game next patch, Duck Hunt will stay mid tier.

 

[Zionaze]

60% of the people here including me don't know jack besides our own characters. Some of us don't even know our own characters ayee

 

[TMNTSSB4]

60% of the people here including me don't know jack besides our own characters. Some of us don't even know our own characters ayee

Make that 100%. Did you forget about the Kirby situation?