Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[Cutie Gwen]

You kinda contradict yourself. A clone got a huge level of detail, but a 3rd party representative wouldn't?

That's not what I meant and you know it. Lucina has Naga's Brand in her model's eye. You can't see it, but it's there. Bayonetta is easily the most detailed character in the game with all these touches. I heard that in the Japanese trailer, her Bayo1 alt spoke English, as outside of the movie, Bayo1's design was strictly English in Japan

View attachment 88322
Alright, who pranked me?

Teehee!

 

[Strofirko]

Cloud on smash bros detracts Squeenix vision of him.

HE IS HAPPY AND CONFIDENT,U CAN'T DO THAT ,HE ISA DEPRESSIVE AND SAD EMO FOR PETES SAKE.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Cloud on smash bros detracts Squeenix vision of him.

HE IS HAPPY AND CONFIDENT,U CAN'T DO THAT ,HE ISA DEPRESSIVE AND SAD EMO FOR PETES SAKE.

Meanwhile Kamiya doesn't give a **** about Bayonetta getting leg surgery or getting toned down quite a bit lol

 

[Opossum]

Isabelle would be that character who doesn't truly want to hurt anyone but her clumsyness ends up doing just that. Plus she would be instant SSS tier because no one would want to hurt her

That's actually my main idea for how Isabelle would work, haha. Inadvertently hurting the opponent and feeling sorry in the process.

Neutral Special: Party Popper - Isabelle lets loose the popper and an explosion of confetti hurts the foe, while Isabelle looks on, horrified. The blast is more powerful if charged.

Side Special: Home Designer - Isabelle lets go of a leaf, thinking it'll turn into a cute furniture piece to make the stage comfier, but lo and behold, they're weaponized! Watch in amazement as foes are crushed by falling couches and prodded by preposterously pointy puffer fish!

Up Special: Letter - Isabelle's letter gets caught in a gust of wind as she holds on, controlling the ascent somewhat.

Down Special: Town Ordinance - Isabelle pulls out a notepad as construction begins on an ordinance. These cycle through different ordinances throughout the fight, rotating between the Keep Smashville Beautiful ordinance (a flowerbed), the Let's Go Fishing ordinance (creates a small pond), and a Let's Find Fossils ordinance (an excavation site). The flowerbed slows down foes who step in it and has the chance to make them be stung by bees for extra damage. If foes step in the pond, gigantic tentacles of an octopus hold them in place for Isabelle's next attack. If foes step in the excavation site, they get the Pitfall effect.

And other things like that. Like, her grab could be her pulling out a fishing rod to go fishing, only to snag a foe (with the pummel being her failing to take the hook off of them), and her Forward Smash could be accidentally knocking over a mountain of paperwork onto a foe. Just quirky things like that, being a sort of different take on the Villager's fight-by-not-fighting thing.

Oh, and her Final Smash could definitely use Resetti popping up and reprimanding the foes, since he's not an Assist Trophy anymore.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Final Fantasy's lack of content is probably because Square had a very limited contract. We've seen that different third party character franchises have different "levels" of content and this just has to do with how that company wants their franchise represented. This is probably why Cloud isn't dubbed, why the FF music is limited, and why Cloud's alts don't have much color variation. I doubt Sakurai had the final say.

We've seen the same thing with Street Fighter's music and Pac-Man's embarrassingly bad color set. No Mrs. Pac-Man? Probably because Bamco would've charged a ton of extra money to represent her.

SEGA, unsurprisingly, seems the most lenient in this regard since they have the closest relationship to Nintendo.

Megaman had pretty amazing representation, though. From songs, to Mii costumes, to color palette, to trophies. He's definetly better repped than Sonic, at least.

Capcom and Nintendo have been pretty close as well, though.

 

[Chrono.]

My favorite thing about Smash trailers is people saying a character is OP from just 2 minutes of footage.

 

[A Distant Demon]

OK playing KH
Just want to bring up there is a legendary keyblade called the X-blade

Its pronunced the same way as "keyblade"

Its the dumbest thing ever.

 

[Z25]

That's actually my main idea for how Isabelle would work, haha. Inadvertently hurting the opponent and feeling sorry in the process.

Neutral Special: Party Popper - Isabelle lets loose the popper and an explosion of confetti hurts the foe, while Isabelle looks on, horrified. The blast is more powerful if charged.

Side Special: Home Designer - Isabelle lets go of a leaf, thinking it'll turn into a cute furniture piece to make the stage comfier, but lo and behold, they're weaponized! Watch in amazement as foes are crushed by falling couches and prodded by preposterously pointy puffer fish!

Up Special: Letter - Isabelle's letter gets caught in a gust of wind as she holds on, controlling the ascent somewhat.

Down Special: Town Ordinance - Isabelle pulls out a notepad as construction begins on an ordinance. These cycle through different ordinances throughout the fight, rotating between the Keep Smashville Beautiful ordinance (a flowerbed), the Let's Go Fishing ordinance (creates a small pond), and a Let's Find Fossils ordinance (an excavation site). The flowerbed slows down foes who step in it and has the chance to make them be stung by bees for extra damage. If foes step in the pond, gigantic tentacles of an octopus hold them in place for Isabelle's next attack. If foes step in the excavation site, they get the Pitfall effect.

And other things like that. Like, her grab could be her pulling out a fishing rod to go fishing, only to snag a foe (with the pummel being her failing to take the hook off of them), and her Forward Smash could be accidentally knocking over a mountain of paperwork onto a foe. Just quirky things like that, being a sort of different take on the Villager's fight-by-not-fighting thing.

Oh, and her Final Smash could definitely use Resetti popping up and reprimanding the foes, since he's not an Assist Trophy anymore.

The happy home special is one I thought would be great for Nook, but it actually works really well for her to!

 

[Roaring Salsa]

All right, last time I mention Isabelle:

• The good: an Isabelle vs Ganondorf match is one of the most hilarious fight ideas ever for Smash
• The bad: Gomorrah berserkly eating her... Bayonetta's final smash should be banned from ever being used on her

 

[Cutie Gwen]

OK playing KH
Just want to bring up there is a legendary keyblade called the X-blade

Its pronunced the same way as "keyblade"

Its the dumbest thing ever.

You are playing KH. Did you REALLY expect it not to be dumb from the game titles alone?

My favorite thing about Smash trailers is people saying a character is OP from just 2 minutes of footage.

Before Sm4sh got released: GUYS LITTLE MAC IS GONNA **** OUR MOTHERS AND NOT EVEN LET US PREPARE OUR ANUS
After Sm4sh got released: lol only absolute scrubs use Mac *throws off edge and footstools*

 

[PushDustIn]

Spazzy_D you mentioned doing a case for series for Square Enix but Cloud was not brought up in particular. I forgot who was but I can check the logs later.

If we are doing a comparison of what we got right and wrong:

1. "No Best Choice..." (which talked about multiple characters)
2. "Do Not Expect a ton of DLC"
3. "Dangers of Online Polling"
4. "Is Wolf a Shoo-in?"

Kind of?
End of Smash DLC
(later stated that K Rool didn't have any support and got the number wrong. General pessimism was very rare those days and I helped introduce the concept that development is hard long ago)

Wrong:
1 SK Rumor
2. Inklings in Smash

I'm sure there are more for each category.

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

Teehee!

I'll get you one day for this, Anna! One day!

 

[Schnee117]

OK playing KH
Just want to bring up there is a legendary keyblade called the X-blade

Its pronunced the same way as "keyblade"

Its the dumbest thing ever.

Kingdom Hearts having something dumb?
In other breaking news the Earth is round.

 

[Shroob]

So, anyone else feelin' a full on Direct for January to talk about games like Fates/HW and Federation Force? Didn't Directs use to happen Bi-Monthly?

If it was around mid-January, we could also get confirmation on Corrin/Bayo's release date.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

♪So he waved goodbye saying 'I hate you guys and Anna I'll. Get. You. Some. DAAAAAY!♪

What are you gonna do? Bankrupt me? Ruin my glorious flat image? Cut off my tongue so I can no longer be the world's snarkiest ****? Just try

 

[Roaring Salsa]

Every single newcomer trailer made everyone go "Wow, so OP... ban hammer please!"

It's funny how only one newcomer, Rosalina, managed to get high on the tier list

 

[Spazzy_D]

Spazzy_D you mentioned doing a case for series for Square Enix but Cloud was not brought up in particular. I forgot who was but I can check the logs later.

If we are doing a comparison of what we got right and wrong:

1. "No Best Choice..." (which talked about multiple characters)
2. "Do Not Expect a ton of DLC"
3. "Dangers of Online Polling"
4. "Is Wolf a Shoo-in?"

Kind of?
End of Smash DLC
(later stated that K Rool didn't have any support and got the number wrong. General pessimism was very rare those days and I helped introduce the concept that development is hard long ago)

Wrong:
1 SK Rumor
2. Inklings in Smash

I'm sure there are more for each category.

It was 100% Cloud. I was waffling on where to start since SE had so many potential reps, but Cloud was the FF character I was going to focus on. I felt like I HAD to do Geno, but I was really not looking forward to it, lol.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Final Fantasy's lack of content is probably because Square had a very limited contract. We've seen that different third party character franchises have different "levels" of content and this just has to do with how that company wants their franchise represented. This is probably why Cloud isn't dubbed, why the FF music is limited, and why Cloud's alts don't have much color variation. I doubt Sakurai had the final say.

We've seen the same thing with Street Fighter's music and Pac-Man's embarrassingly bad color set. No Mrs. Pac-Man? Probably because Bamco would've charged a ton of extra money to represent her.

SEGA, unsurprisingly, seems the most lenient in this regard since they have the closest relationship to Nintendo.

Actually she cameos in Pac-Land after enough "trips".

Speaking of Sega, the seem to be really against anyone but them making sonic anything but a shade of blue. Sega can make red and green sonics for multiplayer no bother but as soon as Nintendo tries it...

I'm just glad Mega Man canonically changes color as one of his main mechanics.

 

[Opossum]

Characters performing well in their own reveal trailers? Wow! It's almost like they want people to play as/buy them or something!

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Characters performing well in their own reveal trailers? Wow! It's almost like they want people to play as/buy them or something!

inb4 someone whines about Corrin not being uber tier with that sexy Side B and range. Bonus points if they cried about 'muh reps'

 

[Das Koopa]

I remember when Mewtwo looked usable

Trailers can deceive

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

What are you gonna do? Bankrupt me? Ruin my glorious flat image? Cut off my tongue so I can no longer be the world's snarkiest ****? Just try

I'll find a way, and when I do....

Speaking of Sega, the seem to be really against anyone but them making sonic anything but a shade of blue. Sega can make red and green sonics for multiplayer no bother but as soon as Nintendo tries it...

I'm just glad Mega Man canonically changes color as one of his main mechanics.

I'm actually in the unpopular opinion that likes that all of Sonic palette swaps are shades of blue. Sonic being any color but blue (and yellow for Super Sonic) makes me think of a bad DeviantArt recolor.

 

[Schnee117]

I'm actually in the unpopular opinion that likes that all of Sonic palette swaps are shades of blue. Sonic being any color but blue (and yellow for Super Sonic) makes me think of a bad DeviantArt recolor.

"Schwanich ze Hedgehog OC. Plz Donut Steel."
Yeah. That sort of crap would be rampant on Miiverse.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'll find a way, and when I do....

I'm actually in the unpopular opinion that likes that all of Sonic palette swaps are shades of blue. Sonic being any color but blue (and yellow for Super Sonic) makes me think of a bad DeviantArt recolor.

Have mercy! Don't give me breasts. Totally not going to enjoy them!

Speaking of third party alts, I have to say, Bayonetta wins again with the variety of colours. I had to look at the alts and think 'Which of these 3 narrowed down choices should I do?' I didn't have this with the others

 

[Chrono.]

Every single newcomer trailer made everyone go "Wow, so OP... ban hammer please!"

It's funny how only one newcomer, Rosalina, managed to get high on the tier list

You forget Ryu

 

[Mega Bidoof]

I'm regards to this whole Fire Emblem representation vs. Zelda representation, I think it is like comparing apples to oranges, at least when talking character number.

Zelda has a defined set of main characters. Once those characters are added, anything else would be a side character.

Fire Emblem has a different main character for each game. It would take 14 characters to have all of the main protagonists!

With Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf, we have all of the "necessary" Zelda characters. There will never reach a point where we have all of the "necessary" Fire Emblem characters, but that's okay given the series's "new characters for each game" thing.


However, I think the people who are upset that Fire Emblem has more "representation" in Smash are somewhat correct, but they are using the wrong wording, and might not necessarily know how to describe why they are upset. They really feel upset because, for this game in the series in particular, Sakurai gave Fire Emblem more new playable characters than Zelda has been given since Melee. While yes, we do all of the main Zelda characters, there are a few important characters that would be unique and are important to the Zelda series, like Impa and Pig/Classic Ganon, along with smaller, one-off yet iconic characters like Skull Kid, Ghirahim, Tetra, and Midna. Those are a lot of characters to pick from.

Yes, while people will use the fact that one-off characters are one-off characters against them, I don't think that makes much sense. Almost every Zelda game stars the 3 main characters, the parts of the Triforce, in a different scenario, interacting with different memorable characters and places. Just as a main protagonist from a FE game is chosen as a "representative" of that specific game and all of its characters, an iconic one-off character could be chosen from a Zelda game as a "representative" of that specific game and its unique world and characters.

It's that fact that FE gets more of that than the Zelda fans, who want a new character just as much as the FE fans do.

Basically, its not so much about representation, but more so about what the fans want and think is fair.

 

[PushDustIn]

Ms. PAC-MAN would have to be a different character (a clone)! She would be slightly faster, have lower attack power and I believe her fruit order would be different.

They should have put Triforce Heroes Link (all 3) as a character.

 

[epicmartin7]

Fumi-Chan confirmed to be the next Sal Romano.

 

[Roaring Salsa]

I wonder if Bayonetta will be Jigglypuff/Mewtwo lightweight. I imagine she'll be as heavy as Rosalina at most

 

[Substitution]

Ms. PAC-MAN would have to be a different character (a clone)! She would be slightly faster, have lower attack power and I believe her fruit order would be different.

Yeah I can see that. Maybe have the fruit order be that of Ms. Pac Man (cherry, strawberry, orange, pretzel, apple, pear, banana) and replace the Galaga enemy with someone from Mappy or Rally-X.

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

Have mercy! Don't give me breasts. Totally not going to enjoy them!

Speaking of third party alts, I have to say, Bayonetta wins again with the variety of colours. I had to look at the alts and think 'Which of these 3 narrowed down choices should I do?' I didn't have this with the others

I'll give them, then take em away!

I'm happy Bayonetta has her original outfit, I always preferred that one.

 

[Z25]

Ms. PAC-MAN would have to be a different character (a clone)! She would be slightly faster, have lower attack power and I believe her fruit order would be different.

They should have put Triforce Heroes Link (all 3) as a character.

Imagine if triforce heroes link got in but no ice climbers. The salt would be real!

I remember when Mewtwo looked usable

Trailers can deceive

At least the latest patch buffs him and makes him very good and fun to use!

 

[Shroob]

People want K.Rool soo badly, but if he got in, would anyone even use him? Heavy characters have always been at the bottom of the tiers. I mean, let's face it. Almost EVERYONE wanted Mewtwo back, and now that he is... who uses him?

ZeRo said it best that probably no-one would end up using K.Rool in the long run.

 

[Substitution]

Fumi-Chan confirmed to be the next Sal Romano.
View attachment 88328

Oh my God... Fumi is on Reddit! He's an Internet celebrity!
You've made it Fumi! Congrats! :D

 

[Z25]

People want K.Rool soo badly, but if he got in, would anyone even use him? Heavy characters have always been at the bottom of the tiers. I mean, let's face it. Almost EVERYONE wanted Mewtwo back, and now that he is... who uses him?

ZeRo said it best that probably no-one would end up using K.Rool in the long run.

I main Bowser, so yes, I'd main him! But I could actually see this be a decent scenario. Maybe casual play he would be used more but not in competitive.

 

[Opossum]

People want K.Rool soo badly, but if he got in, would anyone even use him? Heavy characters have always been at the bottom of the tiers. I mean, let's face it. Almost EVERYONE wanted Mewtwo back, and now that he is... who uses him?

ZeRo said it best that probably no-one would end up using K.Rool in the long run.

I use Mewtwo in friendlies on occasion, but really, this isn't a very good argument.

 

[PushDustIn]

Imagine if triforce heroes link got in but no ice climbers. The salt would be real!

At least the latest patch buffs him and makes him very good and fun to use!

The Links would stack on top of each other. And in true Triforce Heroes manner, the other two Links would just do random stuff (no cpu) and not listen to you. One would randomly shoot projectiles and the other would throw a bomb which will damage you. The Final Smash would be an omnislash clone, naturally.

 

[Burb]

Every single newcomer trailer made everyone go "Wow, so OP... ban hammer please!"

It's funny how only one newcomer, Rosalina, managed to get high on the tier list

Yup, I remember it happening over and over again.

Palutena might've been the worst I saw due to her ginormous Up Smash. And then she ended up being one of the worst characters in the game without customization.

 

[Retroend]

And that matters...why?

Fans having a shifted view of things doesn't equate to "The Legend of Zelda is so inadequately represented." It's just altering reality to suit one's viewpoint.

what would persuade people to buy DLC or smash in general? characters. i've never heard of anyone wanting to buy a game becasue of a stage. i'm just saying people would prefer characters over stages.

 

[Opossum]

what would persuade people to buy DLC or smash in general? characters. i've never heard of anyone wanting to buy a game becasue of a stage. i'm just saying people would prefer characters over stages.

And while that may be true, it has nothing to do with my original point, that there's more to representation than just characters.