Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[Strofirko]

what would persuade people to buy DLC or smash in general? characters. i've never heard of anyone wanting to buy a game becasue of a stage. i'm just saying people would prefer characters over stages.

*cough*mario maker stage*cough*

 

[Icedragonadam]

The Links would stack on top of each other. And in true Triforce Heroes manner, the other two Links would just do random stuff (no cpu) and not listen to you. One would randomly shoot projectiles and the other would throw a bomb which will damage you. The Final Smash would be an omnislash clone, naturally.

And one of the Links would just constantly have the no icon spammed and then they all fall in a bottomless pit.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Here's a crappy analogy I came up with off the top of my head for the whole "representation" thing.

Sakurai is hosting a big party where all the series and their fans are invited. Sakurai is serving birthday cake.

The LoZ Series is a slightly overweight guy, kinda chubby. The FE Series is an average, skinny guy, who has great metabolism and can eat anything and not become fat.

At Sakurai's last party, FE got a decent slice of cake, while LoZ got a small snack, but he was OK with it.

As Sakurai serves the cake now, FE gets a big slice of cake, and 2 small cookies, which the partygoers say are OK, but not as tasty as the cake.
LoZ asks for a slice of cake, but Sakurai doesn't give him any, and instead gives him 6 of the small cookies, where ended up being equal in size to FE's combined total of cake and cookies.
Sakurai gives the rest of the cake to the other series.

LoZ is mildly upset, but kinda understands. Other series needed the cake more than he did, and he still got some OK cookies.

Then Sakurai announces he has more cake to give out.
FE is content with the cake he received earlier, but Sakurai gives him another big slice, equal to the one he received earlier.
LoZ asks for some cake, and Sakurai still denies him.

It's not about LoZ's overall serving size compared to FE's. It's about LoZ, at this specific party, getting the food that was seen as inferior, even though he he asked for a slice of the delicious cake, and FE got a big slice of the cake, and then a second slice later on.

I would be kinda peeved if I were LoZ in this situation.

 

[Frostwraith]

I stopped giving any ****s about representation long ago.

It's why I don't care a lot about Ice Climbers' removal, but Wolf and Snake's exclusions were disappointing. I'll miss Wolf and Snake because they were among my favorite characters to play as in Brawl, whereas I am more indifferent to the Ice Climbers.

But I'm not going to whine about it. All things considered, we only have 7 veterans absent with one of them (Young Link) having a spiritual successor in Toon Link. That's an 84.1% rate of returning characters.

Brawl had 5 veterans missing, meaning it had a rate of returning characters of 80.8%.

On a relative POV, Smash 3DS/Wii U actually had a bigger percentage of veterans returning. Without DLC, this rate would be 77.2%.

In the same way I had to accept Mewtwo's absence in Brawl, I'll have to do the same for Wolf and Snake. That's how things are. You win some, you lose some.

Brawl had no Mewtwo, but had Wolf, had Snake, had Wario and a ton of other new and fun content. Same thing for this new game. Also, there was a possibility in which we wouldn't have had DLC at all in the first place.

I've always kept my expectations in check and be open-minded. I never get any huge disappointment to the point of being so negative about the game. I just go with the flow and watch things unfold. Whatever happens, happens. In the end, it's just a game. Not something worth losing sleep over.

Speaking of sleep, it's time I actually go to sleep since it's late night here. See ya.

 

[Burb]

People want K.Rool soo badly, but if he got in, would anyone even use him? Heavy characters have always been at the bottom of the tiers. I mean, let's face it. Almost EVERYONE wanted Mewtwo back, and now that he is... who uses him?

ZeRo said it best that probably no-one would end up using K.Rool in the long run.

Can't the same be said for most characters, though? Not everyone's going to be this widely used god tier character. It doesn't mean their inclusion is pointless because of it.

Keep in mind that some of us choose characters that we like and learn how to make the best use of them in spite of their flaws. ZeRo, the guy who you're quoting, usually plays whoever's at the top of the tier list (after complaining on Twitter about how OP they are). He doesn't care about who the character is. He's the complete opposite of the kind of people who would pick a Heavyweight.

 

[Solfiner]

I'm not evene mad that FE has more character than Zelda, I just want another Zelda character because it's one of my favorite franchises.

And preferably not a different form or version of Link, Zelda or Dorf.

 

[BluePikmin11]

LOL! Never thought I'd be linked to Reddit.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

People want K.Rool soo badly, but if he got in, would anyone even use him? Heavy characters have always been at the bottom of the tiers. I mean, let's face it. Almost EVERYONE wanted Mewtwo back, and now that he is... who uses him?

ZeRo said it best that probably no-one would end up using K.Rool in the long run.

Everyone who supported him more than likely would. I know I sure as heck would.

Also, the character's reception and usage at least partially relies on how they are implemented, heavy-weights or otherwise. I don't see how it's fair to just go and say "No one would use this character" when the character never even got the chance to be played by anyone in the first place.

 

[Shroob]

Went to the DLC section of the Smash site and saw "2/2016" for Bayo and Corrin.

Almost mistook it, almost.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Something I just wanna poke about with.
ENTIRELY HYPOTHETICAL AS I HAVE NO BELIEF OF THIS HAPPENING
E3 2016 Nintendo announces that the NX will have an expanded port of Smash WiiU with more of the 3DS stages, possibly one more 1P mode, and 5 new first-party characters.
Who do you choose?
1)
2)
3) K. Rool
4) Inklings
5) Bandana Dee

This is late but I'm just gonna post this real quick as technically I'm on hiatus.

1. Mecha-Fiora
2. Elma
3. Wolf
4. Ice Climbers
5. Snake, I know you said FIRST PARTY, but hopefully Konami might just get their crap together. Pipe dream, at least.
6 also because reasons. Bandana Dee

and if the 1P mode were an arcade style story mode where you'd fight random characters 1-on-1 before a rival set constant for each character (Elma being Fiora's rival, for example) and then a common final boss, that'd be neat too.

 

[Curious Villager]

Though I don't really use Mewtwo against human opponents very much, I do still use him a lot when battling CPU opponents. Toon Link was my most wanted Brawl character and I still use him a lot to this day. (He's practically the highest ranked character in both versions of my games)

It may depend if their overall playstyle suits you but I'm fairly sure most people do still play as the character they always wanted for fun at least, even if they don't end up very viable against tougher opponents.

 

[Wario Bros.]

Here's a question for you guys: Which mature games fighter do you think received less censorship in Super Smash Bros.? or ?

As someone who has played both series, I honestly say Bayo is more faithful to her series.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Here's a question for you guys: Which mature games fighter do you think received less censorship in Super Smash Bros.? or ?

As someone who has played both series, I honestly say Bayo is more faithful to her series.

Bayonetta got hit the hardest, no more swearing, no where near as sexual and her model has been changed, her skin around the legs is a bit more dark to make it blend and she doesn't go full naked. Snake just stops smoking.
Bayo may be more faithful, but keep in mind that's an unfair fight as Snake's about sneaking in a box. Try making a moveset with just that

 

[Wario Bros.]

Bayonetta got hit the hardest, no more swearing, no where near as sexual and her model has been changed, her skin around the legs is a bit more dark to make it blend and she doesn't go full naked. Snake just stops smoking.
Bayo may be more faithful, but keep in mind that's an unfair fight as Snake's about sneaking in a box. Try making a moveset with just that

Well, while Snake is known for stealth over weapons, guns were still a big part of the Metal Gear series and yet Bayo kept all of hers.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I've played neither series (though I do own one Metal Gear game that I regrettably haven't gotten around to playing yet) but if I may give my two cents anyway:

Bayonetta strips a lot less than in her series in order to fight.

Snake was unable to use any non-explosive firearm.

Both are fairly significant in their own ways, though at least Bayonetta is still actually able to use her hair to fight, rather than have that capability taken away altogether. I still think it's kinda hard to say.....

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Well, while Snake is known for stealth over weapons, guns were still a big part of the Metal Gear series and yet Bayo kept all of hers.

Shooting isn't the focus of MGS, stealth is, not to mention the popular final boss fight in MGSIV was a fist fight. Bayonetta's guns are part of her DESIGN

 

[SmashChu]

Unless you're someone like SmashChu .

HE WILL BUILD A WALL TO KEEP ALL THE THIRD PARTIES OUT TO MAKE SMASH GREAT AGAIN!

Here is a better though: Why does Smash Brothers even need third party characters?

I've been getting back into Heroes of the Storm. I enjoy the simpler take on MOBA (with games like Dota feeling weighed down by their mechanics), but the game has become attractive because Blizzard really respects their series. The reason I like Heroes of the Storm is because Blizzard is not afraid of their own content. Sakurai is afraid of Nintendo content. Blizzard only has three series and a fourth on on the way, yet they are able to create a roster of about 45 heroes with even more on the way. Smash Bros has 22 Nintendo series total, so there is no reason they can not fill a roster of Nintendo characters. And mind you, every hero cost money in Heroes of the Storm. So clearly they don't have to add other characters. So why does Smash Bros have to have non-Nintendo characters?

There are two things I expect with DLC. First, I think there was bias from Sakurai, and Corrin kind of proves this. There are other series that could have been promoted in the same way (Xenoblade Chronicles X). He chose Fire Emblem because he is a fan of the series. He may have added Ryu and Cloud because he wants to work on them. The other scenario is that he is afraid Nintendo content wont sell. I suspect this is a big part of it because the main game has a lot of Nintendo content. Again, this isn't true because Heroes of the Storm has done incredibly well. Blizzard reported 70 million players and 1.25 billion in revenue between Heroes, Hearthstone and Destiny, and Heroes may have around 10 million players. So clearly having a crossover about a single company wont hurt the piggy bank. And I'm sure you all are thinking "there aren't enough Nintendo characters left." Heroes has 22 characters from the Warcraft series alone, a game series that has fewer games than Starfox. Super Smash Brothers has always been about celebrating Nintendo, and I'm sure many of you started playing Smash Bros because you wanted to see your favorite Nintendo icons duke it out.

So I have two questions for you all:
1) Why does Super Smash Brothers have to have third party characters
2)What is the issue with having only Nintendo characters (mind you, 64 and Melee only had Nintendo characters)?

 

[epicmartin7]

@PushDustIn: So, I know you tend to look out for Sakurai written Famitsu column's in order to translate them. Has Sakurai stated in the past if any of the development teams for past Smash games have disbanded or not?

 

[KenboCalrissian]

An unspoken rule...
Just like the rule that all-third parties need to be iconic.

It's stuff like this that makes me think those of us making up these fan rules are only shooting ourselves in the foot. Little do we know, he's lurking, waiting for us to reveal our deepest terrors and insecurities...

He's making a list, he's claiming "I might,"
He's gonna find out who's salty or trite,
Sakurai is coming for tears.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Sonic alts are fine

The colors are nice

 

[KingofPhantoms]

He's making a list, he's claiming "I might,"
He's gonna find out who's salty or trite,
Sakurai is coming for tears.

Well, it didn't take very long for that to get stuck in my head.

 

[Chandeelure]

https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAADVHktS-3zmg

My collection of badges is growing.

 

[Khoru]

i'm pretty glad at bayo's model change tbh
her original designs fall pretty firmly in the uncanny valley. what are proportions

 

[A Distant Demon]

Vanitas is a *****.
That is all

1) Why does Super Smash Brothers have to have third party characters

Because those 3rd party characters are fun and cool and appeal to a broader audience than nintendo only.

2)What is the issue with having only Nintendo characters (mind you, 64 and Melee only had Nintendo characters)?

We dont get those fun and cool characters that appeal to a broader audience

 

[Cutie Gwen]

So I have two questions for you all:
1) Why does Super Smash Brothers have to have third party characters
2)What is the issue with having only Nintendo characters (mind you, 64 and Melee only had Nintendo characters)?

Because some of the most requested characters were third party, see Sonic, Mega Man, arguably Cloud and Bayonetta.
Limiting your options. What's the issue with having a small amount of third party characters? Nothing. Instead of being a Nintendo purist, you have to realize that if Smash had no third party characters, we might have less Smash fans too. MGS fans that weren't interested got interested because of Snake. Sonic was the sole reason I gained interest in Brawl when I was young. Mega Man was an absurdly high request considering how it hasn't done as well as other third parties. Pac-Man is THE gaming character, more than Mario. Ryu id THE fighting game character who has made crossover appearances before, so him being in Smash is less surprising. Cloud REVOLUTIONIZED JRPGS and quite frankly, helped people who aren't blinded by purism like you to experiment with other consoles And finally, Bayonetta. I think it's very safe to assume that not everyone who had the games voted for her and considering how well she was received outside of a teeny tiny vocal minority, lots of people are very excited, I know someone who loved her games, and after finding out she actually got in, he got Smash just because of Bayonetta

 

[Substitution]

He's making a list, he's claiming "I might,"
He's gonna find out who's salty or trite,
Sakurai is coming for tears.

He sees you when you're posting;
He knows when salt will shake.
He knows when you've been mad or rude,
So be good for Ridley's sake.

 

[Captain Fun]

So I have two questions for you all:
1) Why does Super Smash Brothers have to have third party characters
2)What is the issue with having only Nintendo characters (mind you, 64 and Melee only had Nintendo characters)?

It doesn't need to, but they are popular requests. You might brush this off, but most of the Nintendo characters who didn't make it in yet are basically nobodies in the grand scheme of things. Bayonetta might not be the best selling series, but she was a popular pick and turned plenty of heads- probably more than someone like K. Rool would.

64 and Melee had only Nintendo characters, but Smash is bigger than that now. It feels like there's no going back.

 

[Pazzo.]

i'm pretty glad at bayo's model change tbh
her original designs fall pretty firmly in the uncanny valley. what are proportions

What did her old model look like compared to SSB4's?

 

[BluePikmin11]

Based on the emphasis of "dream come true" when it came to Bayonetta, I think he lowers his standards on third-parties a bit when it comes to the ballot and opens himself to non-iconic characters who have high popularity.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

What did her old model look like compared to SSB4's?

Bayonetta's legs are ridiculously long in her games, but in Smash, she has normal legs. They also added extra shading on skin around her thighs and didn't make Bayo go full nekkid when using Wicked Weaves, but Khoru's talking about the legs

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

So I have two questions for you all:
1) Why does Super Smash Brothers have to have third party characters
2)What is the issue with having only Nintendo characters (mind you, 64 and Melee only had Nintendo characters)?

1. It doesn't.

2. The issue is with having only Nintendo characters is that it appeals to a smaller audience than say, if there were third party characters.

Honestly, Smash to me is a series that has evolved past the point that of "Your favourite Nintendo all-stars duking it out" to "Your favourite video game all-stars duking it out", except that the latter has that emphasis on being a game with mostly Nintendo characters.

Its a celebration of video games in general that still has a large emphasis on Nintendo related content, in other words.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Based on the emphasis of "dream come true" when it came to Bayonetta, I think he lowers his standards on third-parties a bit when it comes to the ballot and opens himself to non-iconic characters who have high popularity.

Considering how much love and care was put in Bayonetta, making her the most detailed character in the game, it's clear she wouldn't have gotten in without ballot support

 

[Shroob]

Rearranged @Neorice's Smash sprites ala the WiiU's CSS. All credit goes to him.

 

[Pazzo.]

Considering how much love and care was put in Bayonetta, making her the most detailed character in the game, it's clear she wouldn't have gotten in without ballot support

Can you explain this a bit further? It's an interesting thought.

 

[Strofirko]

I think custom moves DLC have zero chance to be added,considering complex combos and limit ability.

 

[Burruni]

Yo.
Just gonna say.
Melee almost had 3rd Party characters. and
And 64 was a VERY experimental project that scraped by on the team and budget it had.

Source: http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/04/13/the-definitive-unused-fighters-list-in-smash/

 

[Shroob]

Here is a better though: Why does Smash Brothers even need third party characters?

I've been getting back into Heroes of the Storm. I enjoy the simpler take on MOBA (with games like Dota feeling weighed down by their mechanics), but the game has become attractive because Blizzard really respects their series. The reason I like Heroes of the Storm is because Blizzard is not afraid of their own content. Sakurai is afraid of Nintendo content. Blizzard only has three series and a fourth on on the way, yet they are able to create a roster of about 45 heroes with even more on the way. Smash Bros has 22 Nintendo series total, so there is no reason they can not fill a roster of Nintendo characters. And mind you, every hero cost money in Heroes of the Storm. So clearly they don't have to add other characters. So why does Smash Bros have to have non-Nintendo characters?

There are two things I expect with DLC. First, I think there was bias from Sakurai, and Corrin kind of proves this. There are other series that could have been promoted in the same way (Xenoblade Chronicles X). He chose Fire Emblem because he is a fan of the series. He may have added Ryu and Cloud because he wants to work on them. The other scenario is that he is afraid Nintendo content wont sell. I suspect this is a big part of it because the main game has a lot of Nintendo content. Again, this isn't true because Heroes of the Storm has done incredibly well. Blizzard reported 70 million players and 1.25 billion in revenue between Heroes, Hearthstone and Destiny, and Heroes may have around 10 million players. So clearly having a crossover about a single company wont hurt the piggy bank. And I'm sure you all are thinking "there aren't enough Nintendo characters left." Heroes has 22 characters from the Warcraft series alone, a game series that has fewer games than Starfox. Super Smash Brothers has always been about celebrating Nintendo, and I'm sure many of you started playing Smash Bros because you wanted to see your favorite Nintendo icons duke it out.

So I have two questions for you all:
1) Why does Super Smash Brothers have to have third party characters
2)What is the issue with having only Nintendo characters (mind you, 64 and Melee only had Nintendo characters)?

Just one thing.... but... of all the Mobas, you play Heroes of the Storm?

.....Like, really? That's the butt of Moba jokes.

 

[Strofirko]

Just one thing.... but... of all the Mobas, you play Heroes of the Storm?

.....Like, really? That's the butt of Moba jokes.

Bruh,I think this is irrelevant to this point though.

 

[Oasis Dealer]

While Smash Bros will always have a main focus on Nintendo characters, 3rd parties are something nice to acknowledge. Partly the reason why characters like Sonic and Mega Man were so popular was because of how they were closely tied to Nintendo. Besides those two, the other ones we got (Besides Bayonetta) were characters that were considered giants within the gaming industry (Minus Bayonetta who was added as a popular request from fans). If Sakurai is one who appreciates adding 3rd parties, then I think he likes the idea of Smash being a huge Nintendo all star fighting game, while also having some of the biggest 3rd parties join the fray. He did want to make this game "The greatest character fighting game in the world".

It's funny too, 3rd parties have been thought of ever since Melee. Only reason why they weren't for the first game is because the idea of a Nintendo cross over was the main point at first (And this was a new idea too, so it's not like they could afford to spend much on this project), and Melee just couldn't include them in time. Brawl was really the game that opened that idea.

Here is a better though: Why does Smash Brothers even need third party characters?

I've been getting back into Heroes of the Storm. I enjoy the simpler take on MOBA (with games like Dota feeling weighed down by their mechanics), but the game has become attractive because Blizzard really respects their series. The reason I like Heroes of the Storm is because Blizzard is not afraid of their own content. Sakurai is afraid of Nintendo content. Blizzard only has three series and a fourth on on the way, yet they are able to create a roster of about 45 heroes with even more on the way. Smash Bros has 22 Nintendo series total, so there is no reason they can not fill a roster of Nintendo characters. And mind you, every hero cost money in Heroes of the Storm. So clearly they don't have to add other characters. So why does Smash Bros have to have non-Nintendo characters?

There are two things I expect with DLC. First, I think there was bias from Sakurai, and Corrin kind of proves this. There are other series that could have been promoted in the same way (Xenoblade Chronicles X). He chose Fire Emblem because he is a fan of the series. He may have added Ryu and Cloud because he wants to work on them. The other scenario is that he is afraid Nintendo content wont sell. I suspect this is a big part of it because the main game has a lot of Nintendo content. Again, this isn't true because Heroes of the Storm has done incredibly well. Blizzard reported 70 million players and 1.25 billion in revenue between Heroes, Hearthstone and Destiny, and Heroes may have around 10 million players. So clearly having a crossover about a single company wont hurt the piggy bank. And I'm sure you all are thinking "there aren't enough Nintendo characters left." Heroes has 22 characters from the Warcraft series alone, a game series that has fewer games than Starfox. Super Smash Brothers has always been about celebrating Nintendo, and I'm sure many of you started playing Smash Bros because you wanted to see your favorite Nintendo icons duke it out.

So I have two questions for you all:
1) Why does Super Smash Brothers have to have third party characters
2)What is the issue with having only Nintendo characters (mind you, 64 and Melee only had Nintendo characters)?

I just have a problem with thinking Sakurai was afraid of the idea of just Nintendo content. Part of the reason why some of the 3rd party content was added was because of the demand of them from fans. While most aren't going to be playable (Geno, Monster Hunter character, Virtua Fighter character, Heihachi, and Lloyd), it seems alright to represent them through mii costume or possibly trophies.

I guess this can be countered argued with that Sakurai didn't need to listen to these demands however. Either way, most love the 3rd party content, so I see no need to just remove content like that from the game.

 

[Shroob]

Bruh,I think this is irrelevant to this point though.

I know, just... it blows my mind people play that sad excuse for a Moba.