Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[ChikoLad]

So, with Minecraft on the Wii U, does this mean that Steve has a chance of getting into Smash?
Personally I'd ditch Smash if that ever happened, but hypothetically would it be possible?

I'd say so.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliability_of_Wikipedia
http://www.livescience.com/32950-how-accurate-is-wikipedia.html
http://www.cnet.com/news/study-wikipedia-as-accurate-as-britannica/
http://www.pcworld.com/article/251796/has_wikipedia_beat_britannica_in_the_encyclopedia_battle_.html

Wikipedia represents the greatest advancement in information aggregation in the history of man. It will overtake all other encyclopedias.

That's irrelevant here as the Britannica does not have extensive coverage of video games as a topic. I don't care if Wikipedia will be perfectly accurate in the future. It definitely isn't now, and this discussion is happening now, with the current Wikipedia being referenced, and it is an inaccurate reference.

 

[TheAnvil]

It might just be me.
But it feels weird to have all these third parties in the trophy section.

And then there's Rayman, just sitting In the "Other" Section along with Globox and Barbara.
It just feels so odd to me.

You're damn right.

 

[Retroend]

ok i'm reading about isaac and a golden sun stage, whats going on here?

 

[Deleted member]

"Wikipedia"

You know in my college courses in game design, they always told me not to use Wikipedia for reports. Thanks for reminding me why. :V



Not if your opponent is good.

And yes, absolutely.

I mean Mario is often pretty devoid of STORY cut scenes to begin with...

Wait, am I in Middle School again?

Neither of you have considered the fact that you're using different definitions of the word "gameplay," and that linking to an 'authority' won't change anything?

The problem is that he is saying that gameplay is "objectively" just about the buttons you press
I'm linking to a broader term because me repeating it won't change anything

 

[Wario Bros.]

I'm actually not surprised some were disappointed about Minecraft U. It's not a game for everyone.

Good thing I predicted nothing yesterday.

And I'm not surprised Nintendy is working on the game to offer content, especially when the Microsoft & Sony versions done the same thing. But Nintendo skins aren't enough for me to get this game.

 

[Strofirko]

So, with Minecraft on the Wii U, does this mean that Steve has a chance of getting into Smash?
Personally I'd ditch Smash if that ever happened, but hypothetically would it be possible?

Steve is basically the "worst possible gaming icon character that can appear in smash", yeah so he would be the only "bad"character that could fit sakurai criteria.

 

[DMurr]

ok i'm reading about isaac and a golden sun stage, whats going on here?

You tell us. Where are you reading it?

 

[ChikoLad]

Wait, am I in Middle School again?

The problem is that he is saying that gameplay is "objectively" just about the buttons you press
I'm linking to a broader term because me repeating it won't change anything

Just because the term is broader, doesn't make it right.

 

[Champ Gold]

I understand that Minecraft is such a major franchise and the biggest thing in gaming for a long while but just because it's on Nintendo console doesn't mean it has to lead into anything Smash related.


Not everything revolves around Smash, damnit. Would you guys do this crap if The Witcher, Fallout 4, Skullgirls, Devil May Cry or even if Yazuka 1&2 HD gets localized.

But that's just the nature of he beast. I don't mind Minecraft but don't jump to conclusions since it got on the Wii U. Not everything has to be related to Smash.

 

[Jaedrik]

I'd say so.





That's irrelevant here as the Britannica does not have extensive coverage of video games as a topic. I don't care if Wikipedia will be perfectly accurate in the future. It definitely isn't now, and this discussion is happening now, with the current Wikipedia.

lmao did you even read the links thoroughly? Bet you completely ignored the first one, which has way more sources and alternate studies than just looking at Britannica.
Again, you're both using different definitions of the word "gameplay."
To suggest there is a "right" and "wrong" definition of each word is utterly ignorant of the fact that language is organic and doesn't have commissars shouting what something means.
This is why the scholar's mantra has "always distinguish," when two people mean something different they should define and break things into clear terms so they understand eachother's meaning.
The words are irrelevant, the meaning is what's important.

 

[aldelaro5]

From Wikipedia
"Gameplay is the specific way in which players interact with a game, and in particular with video games. Gameplay is the pattern defined through the game rules, connection between player and the game, challenges and overcoming them, plot and player's connection with it."
As you can see, it's not just about the buttons you press

.....this might be unrelated to what that conversation was suppose to be, but i woudl like to tell my opinion on that term because I realised that gameplay isn't the thing I care the most about a game and I realised it's much bigger than that.

Idk if I use the right word to describe that, but I realised the msot important part of how I coudl enjoy a game is how it would be made and organised to actually be enjoyable in whatever it is tryign to do. I tend to refer as engineering when talking about it, not jsut the actuall source code engineering, but mostly everything that required planification for soemthing int he game to react like it was intended to.

Now, to me, the gameplay is only a part of the engineering because it is definetely a definition of how someone coudl enjoy a game, but I feel there's much more to it. For example, Earthbound is imo one of the most well engineered game I played because there's stuff that I got mind blown from a dev perspective and often had to think "how the heck they figured that out?" and just prasing how it was genius ideas.

Here's an example (spoiler)

Spoiler: this spoils the end

When the game asks your "player name" twice for seemingly no reasons (the game humore being very weird and silyl anyway) for the ONLY purpose to actually use it in the end. That end btw, think about it, the fact that they put the pray as the way to defeat gygas is the perfect representation of what most players woudl do: use the pray command as last resort because at that point, you woudl be desperate as you can't beat it unless you pray. That's alsready a mind blown, but after you do it repeatedly, your player name is used to tell that the player is praying and let's be honest, my brain exploded here: it is EXACTLY as if the game knows how you feel, that's really what I call good engineering because you really had to think about that.

As for why this example, it's because the reason it's so good doesn't have to do with the technical aspect of the gameplay, it's really the game leading you. Good engineering that has to do with gameplay would be the rolling hp meter because that's an element of the battle system which you use throughout the entire game to play it.

So I tend to less use that term, I don't think it is including all that is defining everything about how a game is organised. To me, gameplay is more the technical aspect of how the game works and the engineering is more how it works.....at all.

 

[Substitution]

Why the hell are we arguing what makes a game a game? I'm very confused here.
It's like when people say that Angry Birds isn't a game. Well then what is it?

I understand that Minecraft is such a major franchise and the biggest thing in gaming for a long while but just because it's on Nintendo console doesn't mean it has to lead into anything Smash related.


Not everything revolves around Smash, damnit. Would you guys do this crap if The Witcher, Fallout 4, Skullgirls, Devil May Cry or even if Yazuka 1&2 HD gets localized.

But that's just the nature of he beast. I don't mind Minecraft but don't jump to conclusions since it got on the Wii U. Not everything has to be related to Smash.

To be fair, people were already talking about Steve getting into Smash before this (but mostly after Cloud).

 

[Pazzo.]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliability_of_Wikipedia
http://www.livescience.com/32950-how-accurate-is-wikipedia.html
http://www.cnet.com/news/study-wikipedia-as-accurate-as-britannica/
http://www.pcworld.com/article/251796/has_wikipedia_beat_britannica_in_the_encyclopedia_battle_.html

Wikipedia represents the greatest advancement in information aggregation in the history of man. It will overtake all other encyclopedias.

That doesn't mean it's infallible.

I have both corrected data that had no source and/or was just false on Wikipedia.

 

[Luigi The President]

Honestly, the 3rd party character I want that would be a huge surprise is Jack Frost.

What do you guys think of him being in Smash?

 

[Baskerville]

I understand that Minecraft is such a major franchise and the biggest thing in gaming for a long while but just because it's on Nintendo console doesn't mean it has to lead into anything Smash related.


Not everything revolves around Smash, damnit. Would you guys do this crap if The Witcher, Fallout 4, Skullgirls, Devil May Cry or even if Yazuka 1&2 HD gets localized.

But that's just the nature of he beast. I don't mind Minecraft but don't jump to conclusions since it got on the Wii U. Not everything has to be related to Smash.

I have a feeling that at least one person here or out there will do that. Just the nature of over speculative fans unfortunately.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I mostly agree, however I think at this point Inkling would get as much press as 3rd party newcomers.

Not even close. They're well-known, but not even close to the same level as Cloud and Ryu.

At this point the biggest curve ball would be a character that the Smash community speculated instead of a seemingly left field silent majority choice.

Krystal confirmed!

 

[Strofirko]

Why the hell are we arguing what makes a game a game? I'm very confused here.

The word is "gameplay" though.

 

[Substitution]

The word is "gameplay" though.

...Which is what makes a game. You can't have one without the other.
So, once again, why are we trying to define what is and what isn't a game?

 

[Jaedrik]

That doesn't mean it's infallible.

I have both corrected data that had no source and/or was just false on Wikipedia.

I was addressing two alternate points I should've clarified.
One, Wikipedia is a reliable source. You're literally what makes it reliable btw.
Two, there are no language commissars. No "right" or "wrong" definitions.

 

[Pazzo.]

Strangely enough, people argued over whether Gone Home was a game or not strictly because of the gameplay.

 

[Wario Bros.]

All this talk of wanting yet another 3rd party character and I feel like the only one who wants a Nintendo DLC character that isn't a veteran...

 

[ChikoLad]

lmao did you even read the links thoroughly? Bet you completely ignored the first one, which has way more sources and alternate studies than just looking at Britannica.
Again, you're both using different definitions of the word "gameplay."
To suggest there is a "right" and "wrong" definition of each word is utterly ignorant of the fact that language is organic and doesn't have commissars shouting what something means.
This is why the scholar's mantra has "always distinguish," when two people mean something different they should define and break things into clear terms so they understand eachother's meaning.
The words are irrelevant, the meaning is what's important.

So I guess grass isn't green because I define it as blue?

As a matter of fact, people can be mistaken in topics they did not study. I actually academically study video games. And there is a correct definition of the term "gameplay".

Why the hell are we arguing what makes a game a game? I'm very confused here.
It's like when people say that Angry Birds isn't a game. Well then what is it?


To be fair, people were already talking about Steve getting into Smash before this (but mostly after Cloud).

It's not about what makes a game a game, it's about the term "gameplay".

I never once said gameplay does or doesn't make a game (for the record, it's a part of what makes a game a game, but not all of it).

 

[Strofirko]

People are taking the "next caracter has to top cloud and ryu"too hard,I know it makes sense business wise ,but a popular character would be enough.

 

[Retroend]

You tell us. Where are you reading it?

some posts on here i was reading that mentioned isaac and a golden sun stage. also i just woke up so i could have misread.

 

[Pazzo.]

All this talk of wanting yet another 3rd party character and I feel like the only one who wants a Nintendo DLC character that isn't a veteran...

You're not alone. I'd buy Inklings in a heartbeat.

I was addressing two alternate points I should've clarified.
One, Wikipedia is a reliable source. You're literally what makes it reliable btw.
Two, there are no language commissars. No "right" or "wrong" definitions.

Fair enough.

I will point out that Wikipedia requires information to be sourced in order for it to be accurate. So not all Wikipedia pages are created equal.

Then you have to take into account writer bias, accuracy of source, context, and a whole bunch of other stuff that just adds an extra unnecessary layer onto research.

So yes, it is VERY nice to have as a quick resource, but I personally wouldn't use it as the fact arbitrator.

 

[Champ Gold]

I have a feeling that at least one person here or out there will do that. Just the nature of over speculative fans unfortunately.

It's the nature but I hate that nature.

It's why I don't look forward Undertale being ported to consoles because of its on Wii U or 3DS then it opens up the stupid floodgates of "SANS FOR SMASH, PAYPAS FOR SMASH, TEMMIE FOR SMASH" which at that point I stop being respectful and sincere and say 'please shut the hell up'.

 

[MasterofMonster]

I preordered the Lucina Figma, months after it was overbooked, expecting to MAYBE get it, maybe first half od 2016.

It just shipped. My wallet wasn't prepared for it. But oh well! Lucina Figma is mine. ^^ She will look nice next to my Link Figma.

Still sad I hadn't started collecting when the Samus, Pit and Dark Pit Figmas was available. Sigh.

 

[Jaedrik]

So I guess grass isn't green because I define it as blue?

"Always distinguish."
Grass, as it is most commonly meant, is green. Therefore, when attempting to understand another, one should first use this definition by implication, and clarify if there is a misunderstanding.
Again, there are no right or wrong definitions. Otherwise would suggest that the word grass is literally grass. The thing and the word used to represent it are two utterly different things.
The thing itself is objective and 100% knowable. Word's meanings themselves are subjective, that is they are found within the subject. What someone means by a word may not be what another connects to it.
If we had a means of conveying information that was unmistakable, this world would be much more peaceful (no misunderstandings).
Besides, there are variants of legitimately blue grass, I've got some outside.

As a matter of fact, people can be mistaken in topics they did not study. I actually academically study video games. And there is a correct definition of the term "gameplay".

Maybe you should take that up with the people who actually academically study epistemology and etymology.

 

[Pazzo.]

So I guess grass isn't green because I define it as blue?

As a matter of fact, people can be mistaken in topics they did not study. I actually academically study video games. And there is a correct definition of the term "gameplay".



It's not about what makes a game a game, it's about the term "gameplay".

I never once said gameplay does or doesn't make a game (for the record, it's a part of what makes a game a game, but not all of it).

What's the standard definition of gameplay BTW?

 

[Substitution]

It's not about what makes a game a game, it's about the term "gameplay".

I never once said gameplay does or doesn't make a game (for the record, it's a part of what makes a game a game, but not all of it).

Oh. Well in that case I'd say is the mechanics and design of the game. Whether it'd be the level design to how the game progresses from one part to another.

Not much else to it.

 

[aldelaro5]

So I guess grass isn't green because I define it as blue?

As a matter of fact, people can be mistaken in topics they did not study. I actually academically study video games. And there is a correct definition of the term "gameplay".



It's not about what makes a game a game, it's about the term "gameplay".

I never once said gameplay does or doesn't make a game (for the record, it's a part of what makes a game a game, but not all of it).

oh you did studied into that?

Then I am actually curious because i didn't but I feel we agree on that gameplay isn't everything. I'm goign to try to tell the own definitions I made up and just want your opinion on them, I am very curious.

Like, when I was actually trying to review sticker star, i realised that the issues what that game is a bit complex to explain unless I defineed stuff. One of the definition I did was the "logistic", I defined it as how the flow of the game is organised to .....i guess be intuitive, but I mgiht change that part. basically, it's little stuff like in a zelda dungeon, to me, I think it is a good logistic to have like hearts before the boss door beccause there's a very likely chance you woudl need that, but the game simply was made so that this was there for that entire purpose: it was likely goign to be used.

Another exampel coudl be how a long rpg would manage its difficulty leve, if it has spikes or it seems consistent.

In contrast, bad logistic would be basically having not much chance to know what you would do in a linear sequence (one of the sticker star problems here).

The other one i would want your opinion, that might sound too vague, but I tried to define what is an rpg. i came with soemthign very vague being that as a role playing game, the game FOCUS on immersing the player into the role of a character and its surrounding. I said focus in caps because i realised games coudl do that without being an rpg, but if they actually try to focus on that aspect, then it seems more like an rpg. The best example is how an rpg makes you feel a sense of progression justifying why the exp system is so used. Though, undertale, that's a very special game because i realised the progression is more in the choices you do, not necessarly in doing the battles.

Woudl like your opinion because I'm not a professional for sure, but I am VERY detailed and pciky when it comes to playign games

 

[Chrono.]

FF7R is being developed by CyberConnect2.

For those who don't know, they make the Naruto Storm games and they did the .hack series before.

 

[Pazzo.]

"Always distinguish."
Grass, as it is most commonly meant, is green. Therefore, when attempting to understand another, one should first use this definition by implication, and clarify if there is a misunderstanding.
Again, there are no right or wrong definitions. Otherwise would suggest that the word grass is literally grass. The thing and the word used to represent it are two utterly different things.
The thing itself is objective and 100% knowable. Word's meanings themselves are subjective, that is they are found within the subject. What someone means by a word may not be what another connects to it.
If we had a means of conveying information that was unmistakable, this world would be much more peaceful (no misunderstandings).
Besides, there are variants of legitimately blue grass, I've got some outside.
Maybe you should take that up with the people who study epistemology and etymology.

This so much.

I mentioned it a few days ago (when everyone was having an argument over who was "niche" in Smash), if you want to be taken seriously/dissolve misunderstandings, you must establish a definition to words before debate.

The last time I failed to do so, my entire thesis was ignored in favor of defining "community".

 

[Deleted member]

Just because the term is broader, doesn't make it right.

That's not my point at all
Your definition of gameplay is inside the broader term
It's not wrong, it's wrong saying that's the only definition of it

Honestly, the 3rd party character I want that would be a huge surprise is Jack Frost.

What do you guys think of him being in Smash?

I would love him(?) personally because that would open the possibility of Atlus Mii Costumes

 

[Con0rrrr]

Honestly after Cloud I feel we're good on 3rd Parties in Smash.

I really just want to see Nintendo newcomers and Vets.

But for Smash 5? I hope everyone returns. Megaman, Pacman, and Sonic were the only 3rd parties Smash needed. Ryu and Cloud would be much appreciated as wel but I don't put them on the same level of importance considering the game is first and foremost about Nintendo.

Even though I love Shovel Knight more. If an Indie Rep gets a spot, it'd be a shame if it wasn't Steve/Something from Minecraft. That game changed the entire industry, and the future of Indie games.

 

[Champ Gold]

FF7R is being developed by CyberConnect2.

For those who don't know, they make the Naruto Storm games and they did the .hack series before.

And the recent JoJo games. They are pretty cool devs.

People are taking the "next caracter has to top cloud and ryu"too hard,I know it makes sense business wise ,but a popular character would be enough.

Megaman was considered a hyped character on the level of what Cloud was as there wasn't anyone who topped him.

NO ONE

@Swampasaur said it best, Cloud isn't like someone to attract the main event, HE IS THE MAIN EVENT

 

[Pazzo.]

Cloud's inclusion is unprecedented by anything we've ever seen before.

As long as Sakurai will have him back, there will be very few objections.

 

[Solfiner]

CC2 is really good at making flashy games, Naruto Storm, Asura's Wrath etc.

 

[A Distant Demon]

It's like a bad Phoenix Wright trial in here. . .speaking of. . .

Spoiler: Trials&Tribulations

it has been about 5 minutes and the 4th case has already met all of my standards.


and that is before. . .
mother
****ing
edgeworth

 

[Chrono.]

CC2 is really good at making flashy games, Naruto Storm, Asura's Wrath etc.

Yeah, plus they're RPG veterans.

I think the remake is in good hands.