Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[Pazzo.]

It's like a bad Phoenix Wright trial in here. . .speaking of. . .

Spoiler: Trials&Tribulations

it has been about 5 minutes and the 4th case has already met all of my standards.


and that is before. . .
mother
****ing
edgeworth

Spoiler: T&T Spoilers

Hope you're ready for some stuff to go down. This is my second favorite AA trial, only beaten by the next one.

 

[Zzuxon]

I'm making a list of those third party series that I deem SMASH WORTHY. If you think I've missed anything, or miscategorized something, tell me.

DEFINITE:
Pac-Man
Sonic the Hedgehog
Mega Man
Street Fighter
Final Fantasy
Dragon Quest
Castlevania
Bomberman
Crash Bandicoot
Banjo-Kazooie

Borderline:
Rayman
Tekken
Phoenix Wright
Kingdom Hearts
Tomb Raider
Metal Gear
Spyro
Skylanders
Minecraft
Mortal Kombat
EDIT: Professor Layton

 

[Pazzo.]

I'm making a list of those third party series that I deem SMASH WORTHY. If you think I've missed anything, or miscategorized something, tell me.

DEFINITE:
Pac-Man
Sonic the Hedgehog
Mega Man
Street Fighter
Final Fantasy
Dragon Quest
Castlevania
Bomberman
Crash Bandicoot
Banjo-Kazooie

Borderline:
Rayman
Tekken
Phoenix Wright
Kingdom Hearts
Tomb Raider
Metal Gear
Spyro
Skylanders
Minecraft
Mortal Kombat

*Borderline*

Spoiler

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Random prediction on Thursday we'll get both the secret Pokken reveal in the wee hours of the morning and then in the afternoon we'll get Smash direct.

Don't have much stock in it but throwing it out there.

 

[Zzuxon]

*Borderline*

Yup, that is one I missed.

 

[KenboCalrissian]

Not directed at anyone in particular, but if your devotion to Smash is such that the inclusion of a particular character will make you leave... then I hope we do get Steve. I'm tired of the skewed sense of entitlement too many Smash fans have. We could do with less of that.

Sakurai could add Shrek for all I care, and I'd keep playing. There's nearly 60 other characters in the roster besides that one you're not obligated to buy in order to enjoy.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Megaman was considered a hyped character on the level of what Cloud was as there wasn't anyone who topped him.

NO ONE

Mega Man generated more hype among people as unlike Cloud, there was very little anger at Mega Man being revealed and Mega Man was the most popularly requested third-party character next to Sonic.

None of the newcomer characters we got after Mega Man were able to live up to his hype.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm making a list of those third party series that I deem SMASH WORTHY. If you think I've missed anything, or miscategorized something, tell me.

DEFINITE:
Pac-Man
Sonic the Hedgehog
Mega Man
Street Fighter
Final Fantasy
Dragon Quest
Castlevania
Bomberman
Crash Bandicoot
Banjo-Kazooie

Borderline:
Rayman
Tekken
Phoenix Wright
Kingdom Hearts
Tomb Raider
Metal Gear
Spyro
Skylanders
Minecraft
Mortal Kombat

How is Metal Gear NOT Smash-worthy, yet Castlevania and Bomberman are?

 

[Zzuxon]

How is Metal Gear NOT Smash-worthy, yet Castlevania and Bomberman are?

Castlevania and Bomberman are much more important and widely known than Metal Gear.
And I didn't say Metal Gear wasn't smashworthy.

 

[Champ Gold]

How is Metal Gear NOT Smash-worthy, yet Castlevania and Bomberman are?

I'm trying to figure out how Crash and Banjo is more definite than freaking Rayman and Tekken? How

 

[Luigi The President]

I'm making a list of those third party series that I deem SMASH WORTHY. If you think I've missed anything, or miscategorized something, tell me.

DEFINITE:
Pac-Man
Sonic the Hedgehog
Mega Man
Street Fighter
Final Fantasy
Dragon Quest
Castlevania
Bomberman
Crash Bandicoot
Banjo-Kazooie

Borderline:
Rayman
Tekken
Phoenix Wright
Kingdom Hearts
Tomb Raider
Metal Gear
Spyro
Skylanders
Minecraft
Mortal Kombat
EDIT: Professor Layton

Scribblenauts, maybe, for borderline.
Shin Megami Tensei for borderline.
Also, why the heck is Metal Gear borderline!?

Castlevania and Bomberman are much more important and widely known than Metal Gear.
And I didn't say Metal Gear wasn't smashworthy.

No they aren't lol. Metal Gear MADE the stealth genre. It's so much more relevant and popular then Bomberman, for one thing. And Castlevania is...not more important or widely known, not sure why you think that.

Metal Gear is more important and more widely known then both of those.

 

[TheAnvil]

I'm making a list of those third party series that I deem SMASH WORTHY. If you think I've missed anything, or miscategorized something, tell me.

DEFINITE:
Pac-Man
Sonic the Hedgehog
Mega Man
Street Fighter
Final Fantasy
Dragon Quest
Castlevania
Bomberman
Crash Bandicoot
Banjo-Kazooie

Borderline:
Rayman
Tekken
Phoenix Wright
Kingdom Hearts
Tomb Raider
Metal Gear
Spyro
Skylanders
Minecraft
Mortal Kombat
EDIT: Professor Layton

I feel like people greatly under estimate Mortal Kombat.

I also would put Rayman/Metal gear and Spyro (Skylanders is a top 20 franchise of all time and directly influenced one of Nintendo's most lucrative ventures ever) in the definite section.

 

[IceBreakerXY]

All this talk about 3rd parties in smash and I wasn't invited
Anyway yeah I'm expecting nothing but 3rd parties for now.It just makes sense.They bring more hype and sales easier to get contacts for DLC.Allows you to save those B- tier characters for next smash. #team3rdparty

 

[Deleted member]

The problem is that "worthiness" is subjective and the only point of view that matters is Sakurai's
So
Worthy:
Sonic
Metal Gear
Mega Man
Pac-Man
Street Fighter
Final Fantasy

The Rest:
The rest

 

[Pazzo.]

Third-party characters are exciting... until everyone expects them instead of Nintendo characters.

 

[TheAnvil]

I kind of feel like Crash would be the next natural fit for a 3rd Party character if he'd managed to retain ANY kind of relevance over the years.

Crash was ****ing huge back in the day.

 

[Luigi The President]

All this talk about 3rd parties in smash and I wasn't invited
Anyway yeah I'm expecting nothing but 3rd parties for now.It just makes sense.They bring more hype and sales easier to get contacts for DLC.Allows you to save those B- tier characters for next smash. #team3rdparty

What, K. Rool won't bring tons of hype? "Bringing more hype" isn't as huge as a point for a character as people make it out to be.
Many 1st party characters will make TONS of sales, even if not as many sales as 3rd parties.
#team1stparty

 

[ChikoLad]

That's not my point at all
Your definition of gameplay is inside the broader term
It's not wrong, it's wrong saying that's the only definition of it

I would love him(?) personally because that would open the possibility of Atlus Mii Costumes

But the broad term you presented isn't correct, and you did nothing to prove it was. I established the definition of gameplay from the beginning, based on academic study, but you just refuted it because you felt it helped your defense of turn based RPGs (which I was never attacking to begin with), and never gave proof. You literally just posted and definition and didn't establish why it's the correct one.

I admittedly didn't fully break down my definition, but it is the one that's academically taught, and I can break it down. It just didn't think I'd have to go that far because it's pretty obvious.

oh you did studied into that?

Then I am actually curious because i didn't but I feel we agree on that gameplay isn't everything. I'm goign to try to tell the own definitions I made up and just want your opinion on them, I am very curious.

Like, when I was actually trying to review sticker star, i realised that the issues what that game is a bit complex to explain unless I defineed stuff. One of the definition I did was the "logistic", I defined it as how the flow of the game is organised to .....i guess be intuitive, but I mgiht change that part. basically, it's little stuff like in a zelda dungeon, to me, I think it is a good logistic to have like hearts before the boss door beccause there's a very likely chance you woudl need that, but the game simply was made so that this was there for that entire purpose: it was likely goign to be used.

Another exampel coudl be how a long rpg would manage its difficulty leve, if it has spikes or it seems consistent.

In contrast, bad logistic would be basically having not much chance to know what you would do in a linear sequence (one of the sticker star problems here).

The other one i would want your opinion, that might sound too vague, but I tried to define what is an rpg. i came with soemthign very vague being that as a role playing game, the game FOCUS on immersing the player into the role of a character and its surrounding. I said focus in caps because i realised games coudl do that without being an rpg, but if they actually try to focus on that aspect, then it seems more like an rpg. The best example is how an rpg makes you feel a sense of progression justifying why the exp system is so used. Though, undertale, that's a very special game because i realised the progression is more in the choices you do, not necessarly in doing the battles.

Woudl like your opinion because I'm not a professional for sure, but I am VERY detailed and pciky when it comes to playign games

What you are referring to as "logistic" would be academically referred to as "design theory".

For example, it is bad design theory to not give the players any conveyance on where they should go or on what they could be doing, even in an open world game. However, it is good design to give the player a sense of the direction. However, the best method of giving the players a sense of direction, depends on the game you are making. You present that idea well by comparing how the main method of progression is different between Undertale and something like Paper Mario.

What's the standard definition of gameplay BTW?

How the players interacts with the game.

"Game" is the thing you are interacting with.
"Play" is the method of interaction.

Gameplay primarily entails how the players control the game. That being with inputs from a controller. It also discusses the mechanics caused by inputs.

The reason why turn based RPGs have less gameplay than an action RPG, is because the attack animations have nothing to do with gameplay. The player selects the move, watches the animation, and at the end, the damage or whatever is inflicted. However, only the button press before the animation and the status change at the end, relate to the mechanics (not counting stuff like Paper Mario since those are more interactive - think a typical Final Fantasy).

You'll notice that in reviews of turn based RPGs attack animations are discussed in the "Presentation" section, not "Gameplay". Because the attack animation itself serves no mechanical purpose. It just looks pretty.

However, the same is not true of a real time game, since the animations indicate my attack range and speed. The animations for attacks, now serve a mechanical purpose.

 

[Chrono.]

XCX status:

Spoiler: no story spoilers

lmao I'm so dead

 

[IceBreakerXY]

What, K. Rool won't bring tons of hype? "Bringing more hype" isn't as huge as a point for a character as people make it out to be.
Many 1st party characters will make TONS of sales, even if not as many sales as 3rd parties.
#team1stparty

In all honesty Dixie would bring more sales than k rool.Any character would bring hype and sales but yes banjo,rayman,bomberman would bring wayyy more sales than k tool isaac or bdee(just for example) and if there easier to get yes go for the 3rd parties

 

[Luigi The President]

In all honesty Dixie would bring more sales than k rool.Any character would bring hype and sales but yes banjo,rayman,bomberman would bring wayyy more sales than k tool isaac or bdee(just for example) and if there easier to get yes go for the 3rd parties

In all honesty she probabaly wouldn't, can I ask why you think that

Here's something that may sound ignorant, but hey; you act like Nintendo needs Smash to make tons more money. No. Smash is basically printing money with any of it's DLC. The added bonus money 3rd party DLC characters will make shouldn't make Sakurai choose a 3rd party over a 1st party.

 

[Z25]

Well I see Minceraft was announced, I figured as much. I still don't really care but we shall see if the port doesn't suck and if the Nintendo Content is worth buying. The fact that it is out in 10 days concerns me though.

Also wouldn't it be hilarious if the smash broadcast is announced later today? Could actually be a smart move to.

 

[AreJay25]

Minecraft U was expected. Cool that it releases next week.

Also, this was inevitable.
https://www.change.org/p/nintendo-p...twitter&utm_campaign=share_twitter_responsive

 

[TheAnvil]

What, K. Rool won't bring tons of hype? "Bringing more hype" isn't as huge as a point for a character as people make it out to be.
Many 1st party characters will make TONS of sales, even if not as many sales as 3rd parties.
#team1stparty

I want K. Rool a lot but he does not have the kind of casual appeal that viable 3rd Parties have. The hardcore Smash fanbase is only a small portion of the entire Smash demographic.

Hell, he doesnt have the kind of casual appeal that Dixie, Inklings, Toad etc have due to his inactivity.

 

[Shroob]

Did someone seriously bring up Mickey Mouse?

 

[Z25]

Minecraft U was expected. Cool that it releases next week.

Also, this was inevitable.
https://www.change.org/p/nintendo-p...twitter&utm_campaign=share_twitter_responsive

I love these petitions. I like how this tried to present reasonable arguments, but all can be countered easily.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Did someone seriously bring up Mickey Mouse?

This is at least the 3rd time.

Although at least 2 of those times had to do with bashing sora >_>

 

[Schnee117]

Minecraft U was expected. Cool that it releases next week.

Also, this was inevitable.
https://www.change.org/p/nintendo-p...twitter&utm_campaign=share_twitter_responsive

I love how he uses "spammy, low-quality posts" on Miiverse as an argument against Steve.

 

[AreJay25]

I love how he uses "spammy, low-quality posts" on Miiverse as an argument against Steve.

I also like how he implies that Steve would somehow make online worse.

Steve "derping around on For Glory" would be much more entertaining to fight than a spammy Link player.

 

[Luigi The President]

I want K. Rool a lot but he does not have the kind of casual appeal that viable 3rd Parties have. The hardcore Smash fanbase is only a small portion of the entire Smash demographic.

Hell, he doesnt have the kind of casual appeal that Dixie, Inklings, Toad etc have due to his inactivity.

You have a good point.

However, there's a lot of 1st party characters casuals would love. Paper Mario, for one. He's very casuals-relevant right now. And even though I don't want them in Smash 4, Inklings have it too.

 

[Deleted member]

Minecraft U was expected. Cool that it releases next week.

Also, this was inevitable.
https://www.change.org/p/nintendo-p...twitter&utm_campaign=share_twitter_responsive

Oh boy

Spoiler

"Speculation ran wild and the hope was that an announcement would be made regarding the date of the promised Smash Direct.
But those hopes and dreams were swiftly and suddenly dashed when it was revealed that Minecraft Wii U was the major announcement of the day. Many such fans, including myself, were incredibly salty about this bait and switch troll tactic."
Lol, this is your own fault
"We simply wish to prevent the travesty of Steve joining Smash 4. Since Minecraft Wii U was announced, the prospects of Steve joining Smash have increased exponentially,"
Holy ****, I'm dying
"and we wish to avert this cancer from ever occurring."
>cancer
Is this a youtube comment?
"Steve should not join Smash 4 for a multitude of reasons, but we shall list the top four here."
It's gonna start
"(2) Many other much more deserving characters."
I don't need to say anything here, do I?
"With the announcement of Cloud, and estimates ranging that 2-4 DLC roster spots are left, those slots "
Dead
"Encourages poor play."
Incredible
"Most of the Minecraft fan base is composed of a much younger audience than the typical Smash 4 gamer. Adding Steve to Smash 4 would swiftly deteriorate the quality of online play as legions of younger gamers would join the servers and literally derp around with Steve on For Glory. Hoards of little kids would make the experience of Smash 4 incredibly frustrating and irksome to both casual and competitive players alike on both the servers and Miiverse. Spammy, low-quality posts would flood Miiverse in an unstoppable deluge."
I was revived just to read all of this

 

[SuperMii3D]

I also like how he implies that Steve would somehow make online worse.

Steve "derping around on For Glory" would be much more entertaining to fight than a spammy Link player.

Hes saying that the kids who play Minecraft would migrate over to Smash servers and cause more lag/disconnect in online matches.

Still not a valid argument, but that petition is funny to read nonetheless.

 

[TheAnvil]

You have a good point.

However, there's a lot of 1st party characters casuals would love. Paper Mario, for one. He's very casuals-relevant right now. And even though I don't want them in Smash 4, Inklings have it too.

Inklings are the most feasible first party characters right now IMO.

 

[AreJay25]

Hes saying that the kids who play Minecraft would migrate over to Smash servers and cause more lag/disconnect in online matches.

Still not a valid argument, but that petition is funny to read nonetheless.

He didn't mention lag at all, though. Just "poor play". Not that I disagree.

 

[IceBreakerXY]

In all honesty she probabaly wouldn't, can I ask why you think that

Here's something that may sound ignorant, but hey; you act like Nintendo needs Smash to make tons more money. No. Smash is basically printing money with any of it's DLC. The added bonus money 3rd party DLC characters will make shouldn't make Sakurai choose a 3rd party over a 1st party.

TheAnvil toke the words right out of mouth earlier. But anyway look at it this way sakurai said he wanted this to be the best character game ever. Iconic character like cloud, ryu,mega man,etc.that's what I feel DLC is kinda focusing on.There is no Nintendo character left besides inklings and Dixie who I feel are missing from this game and I feel both should be saved till next time. DLC should focus on those iconic characters for smash.

 

[Pazzo.]

That petition...

My word, what a read. XD

 

[Soul.]

Speculation ran wild and the hope was that an announcement would be made regarding the date of the promised Smash Direct.

And people were expecting this because?

 

[SuperMii3D]

He didn't mention lag at all, though. Just "poor play". Not that I disagree.

Hoards of little kids would make the experience of Smash 4 incredibly frustrating and irksome to both casual and competitive players alike on both the servers and Miiverse.

I assumed that lag would be included

My favorite thing about this petition is that people seriously think that the announcement of Minecraft Wii-U means that Steve is going to be in Smash. I really cant get over the fact that this exists

 

[Pazzo.]

And people were expecting this because?

Because hope springs eternal.

Rather, speculation springs eternal.

 

[Fenriraga]

Good god, is getting a petition as easy as getting a McDonalds Burger or something? It's just so hilarious to me.

-Tell the Government to Fund research for Gun Control in the USA
-Punish the Officers who used unnecessary force and broke this man's arm
-Help protect the Prarie Dogs of Colorado
-KEEP STEVE BLOCK GUY OUT OF SMASH GAME PLZ KTHX