Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[SlickWylde]

I'm totally down for Minecraft on Wii U. I played hundreds of hours on the PC. That'll be cool! Hopefully they bring splitscreen

 

[Freduardo]

I've played most, and Kingdom Hearts may be out of the norm, but I don't want FF7 Kingdom Hearts. If I want to play that kind of gameplay I'll play Kingdom Hearts. Similar to if I want to play Tales of games I'll play Tales of. Kingdom Hearts still uses a style of gaming from PS2 era, and Tales of uses it (although improved upon) from that era as well. Even then, though, I'd say FF7's combat and RPG system had way more depth than Kingdom Hearts has despite Kingdom Hearts having depth and I've played both. I'm not saying Kingdom Hearts is bad or anything, but FF7 hit all the right cards for me with the Materia system the boss battle designs, the Gold Saucer arena and the depth among the characters like Vincent.

I have not seen a single new action RPG combat system from PS360Wii era that held the mantle into the future.

What's your opinion on the combat and battle system in Dillon's Rolling Western?

 

[NintenZ]

"I don't like Minecraft... Like at all. I've always considered it a filthy casual game, up there with the likes of Call of Duty and Club Penguin. But if you do like it, more power to ya." Every person who hates Minecraft ever.

 

[TheAnvil]

And why so? I don't see why you'd bank on that, I'm genuinely curious.

-Guest characters generally sell better than 1st Party characters.
-Guest characters get more publicity and draw far more attention.
-DLC is seen as an "extra" by Sakurai. 3rd Party characters fit more comfortably along those lines than 1st Party newcomers, or veterans do. There's never an air of "this character should have been on the disc" with them.
-Cloud is the teaser for the presentation, so I would say it's likely that there is something planned that is a bigger deal than Cloud. There are no 1st Party characters left that would be bigger than Cloud. I'm sure Smash DLC is going to end with a bang.

 

[Chrono.]

http://kotaku.com/sounds-like-the-f...m_source=Kotaku_Twitter&utm_medium=Socialflow

They're pulling a Xenosaga, basically.

 

[DoodleDuck97]

I think two more third parties would sit just right with me.
Mostly because of 8 player smash and I think it would work really well as an 8 Player battle Royale.
Say these:
: Banjo.
I think this would be an incredible line-up.
Even though there are still a few others I would like to see: For example. Bomberman and Rayman are two to name a few.
I do think Snake has a pretty decent chance at returning but it's now or bust for him IMO
Same goes for Wolf and potentially Ice Climbers.

 

[ChikoLad]

http://kotaku.com/sounds-like-the-f...m_source=Kotaku_Twitter&utm_medium=Socialflow

They're pulling a Xenosaga, basically.

Can you elaborate on what Xenosaga pulled?

 

[aldelaro5]

It's a 1.7 ghz Intel i3-core. I knew it would happen.

depends, a good i3 CAN be "ok", but a less performance oritented will be bad.

I searched an i3 with that speed and the onyl one I foudn is the 4010U:

http://ark.intel.com/products/75107/Intel-Core-i3-4010U-Processor-3M-Cache-1_70-GHz

the U means ultra low power aka, you very likely are using a laptop and the cpu tries to be more about power consumption as it's a laptop.

AKA, yeah, don't expect much tbh. The fact that you are likely using a laptop means you're pretty much stick with it

To give you an idea, I bought my cpu specifically for dolphin to run best at the best price and I got the i5 4690, it's a quad core and I think 2.4ghtz, never had a drop under 60fps for both spm and TTYD.

But that's a desktop cpu.....

Dolphin is just very demanding. However, the features it gives is just awesome like I can play spm with a real wiimote and have frame advance, free look, tons of saves, and of course, I can hack it with CE

and before you ask, the gpu doesn't impact much the performance unless your gpu is VEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRY old or you tried to crank the graphics setting to have better resolution than the orignal system.

But the cpu is the main factor, you want the fastest for one core as dolphin only uses 2 cores.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

-Guest characters generally sell better than 1st Party characters.
-Guest characters get more publicity and draw far more attention.
-DLC is seen as an "extra" by Sakurai. 3rd Party characters fit more comfortably along those lines than 1st Party newcomers, or veterans do. There's never an air of "this character should have been on the disc" with them.
-Cloud is the teaser for the presentation, so I would say it's likely that there is something planned that is a bigger deal than Cloud. There are no 1st Party characters left that would be bigger than Cloud. I'm sure Smash DLC is going to end with a bang.

I'd argue against your third point for Lucas but otherwise I'm on the same level.

Only question is who's either more hype or more unexpected than an unofficial PS1 mascot that didn't even get into the big Sony crossover and even if Square was approached they'd have instead have used it as another excuse to force Lightning onto the world?

That was a little long winded.

 

[Chrono.]

Can you elaborate on what Xenosaga pulled?

3 separate games that told one huge story.

All the 3 episodes of Xenosaga were full games on their own as well.

 

[Kenith]

-Guest characters generally sell better than 1st Party characters.
-Guest characters get more publicity and draw far more attention.
-DLC is seen as an "extra" by Sakurai. 3rd Party characters fit more comfortably along those lines than 1st Party newcomers, or veterans do. There's never an air of "this character should have been on the disc" with them.
-Cloud is the teaser for the presentation, so I would say it's likely that there is something planned that is a bigger deal than Cloud. There are no 1st Party characters left that would be bigger than Cloud. I'm sure Smash DLC is going to end with a bang.

I mostly agree, however I think at this point Inkling would get as much press as 3rd party newcomers.

 

[Freduardo]

I think two more third parties would sit just right with me.
Mostly because of 8 player smash and I think it would work really well as an 8 Player battle Royale.
Say these:
: Banjo.
I think this would be an incredible line-up.
Even though there are still a few others I would like to see: For example. Bomberman and Rayman are two to name a few.
I do think Snake has a pretty decent chance at returning but it's now or bust for him IMO
Same goes for Wolf and potentially Ice Climbers.

Someone that was a pillar during the 16 bit era beholden with Mario and Sonic?

Someone who, like Bomberman, suffered having Hudson being bought by Konami and shelving his 3DS game that looked awesome?

Bonk!

 

[ChikoLad]

3 separate games that told one huge story.

All the 3 episodes of Xenosaga were full games on their own as well.

Hmm, so I guess that makes it more possible that they will include elements from Crisis Core and what not.

 

[wedl!!]

If we go by the theory that Snake's inclusion is largely part of Sakurai and Kojima's friendship, his return is essentially impossible. If we go by the theory that Konami is absolutely insane and probably wouldn't put him into the game so they can make more pachikno machines and spite Kojima, his return is essentially impossible.

 

[Deleted member]

I like TB RPGs fine but I wasn't making a jab and I'm not wrong. Each and every action in a TB battle is a little cutscene, and they can be long *coughKnightsoftheRoundcough*.

That means there IS less gameplay time than an action RPG. In an action RPG, you constantly make decisions at every second. In turn based, you don't, once you decide an attack, it goes out and you can relax.

Some TB RPGs remedy this by having button timing events like Paper Mario, but you still make way more inputs per minute than a TB RPG in an action RPG. Objectively, that's more gameplay.

The number of actions and buttons you press doesn't equals to "more gameplay"
What matters is the depth and quality of them
Aftef all, a game can have Loads and Loads of Characters but if none of them are given characterization or aren't fun to play as, it's pointless and the game with just a few developed characters gets to the point
No RPG is resumed to "choose action, watch cutscene"
You have to strategize, by thinking ahead, predicting enemies' actions, forming character parties with sinergy, etc.
I'm not trying to undervalue ARPGs, I'm just saying they're different and what my personal preference is but you are using words like "objectively" and "I'm not wrong"

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Hmm, so I guess that makes it more possible that they will include elements from Crisis Core and what not.

Maybe. They said they are gonna port over the more light hearted moments that everyone forgets like CLoud's crossdressing rescue but if they're expanded they may as well add more. Especially if they charge full price or each episode.

Looks like they're using the art style of later FF7 works as Barret's biceps are only the size of dumptruck wheels now instead of an entire dumptruck each.

 

[Luigi The President]

-Guest characters generally sell better than 1st Party characters.
-Guest characters get more publicity and draw far more attention.
-DLC is seen as an "extra" by Sakurai. 3rd Party characters fit more comfortably along those lines than 1st Party newcomers, or veterans do. There's never an air of "this character should have been on the disc" with them.
-Cloud is the teaser for the presentation, so I would say it's likely that there is something planned that is a bigger deal than Cloud. There are no 1st Party characters left that would be bigger than Cloud. I'm sure Smash DLC is going to end with a bang.

Alright, I completely disagree with all of this, but if that's what you think, then alright.

Banjo-Kazooie isn't a bad choice by any means; I want him. Don't see him happening, though. Maybe Smash 5.

 

[NintenZ]

Here's what I really think of Minecraft... I'm indifferent, I neither dislike it, nor do I like it, but I know there's an audience for those games, so I don't really need to go on.

 

[Substitution]

Minecraft on Wii U? Eh, I guess that's neat.
So now it's only the Playstation that doesn't have Minecraft? Or maybe it does and I didn't know.

 

[Pazzo.]

3 separate games that told one huge story.

All the 3 episodes of Xenosaga were full games on their own as well.

Multiple disks?

This really is a remake.

 

[TheAnvil]

I'd argue against your third point for Lucas but otherwise I'm on the same level.

Only question is who's either more hype or more unexpected than an unofficial PS1 mascot that didn't even get into the big Sony crossover and even if Square was approached they'd have instead have used it as another excuse to force Lightning onto the world?

That was a little long winded.

In my opinion:

Crash Bandicoot, Master Chief, Banjo-Kazooie, Mickey Mouse, Spyro The Dragon

Would be a bigger deal than Cloud. They're all significant, and have an air of "holy crap these characters are in Smash to them". Rayman is borderline, as there's kind of a feeling that he's "likely" among a lot of people. Maybe a Resident Evil character. I feel like there are a couple others I'm overlooking too.

 

[Chrono.]

Also, FF7R is gonna use the Unreal Engine 4 instead of their usual in-house engine, Luminous.

 

[ChikoLad]

The number of actions and buttons you press doesn't equals to "more gameplay"
What matters is the depth and quality of them
Aftef all, a game can have Loads and Loads of Characters but if none of them are given characterization or aren't fun to play as, it's pointless and the game with just a few developed characters gets to the point
No RPG is resumed to "choose action, watch cutscene"
You have to strategize, by thinking ahead, predicting enemies' actions, forming character parties with sinergy, etc.
I'm not trying to undervalue ARPGs, I'm just saying they're different and what my personal preference is but you are using words like "objectively" and "I'm not wrong"

Actually, inputs per minute does define gameplay. Gameplay is the player's interaction with the game world, done through inputs.

I didn't say TB is objectively worse than ARPG. I said that the latter has more actual gameplay, you can't argue against that since gameplay is literally the player's interaction with the game, and ARPGs have you constantly do this outside of cutscenes, while TB RPGs don't. The average required inputs per minute is a gauge for how much gameplay a game actually features. Thinking about strategies is not part of the gameplay as you can actually do this without booting up the game. You execute your strategies through inputs though, and since carrying out a strategy in an ARPG requires more inputs than a TB RPG, ARPGs do indeed have more gameplay.

 

[Fenriraga]

Minecraft on Wii U? Eh, I guess that's neat.
So now it's only the Playstation that doesn't have Minecraft? Or maybe it does and I didn't know.

Playstation has had it a good long while. So yeah, the trilogy is complete

 

[Deleted member]

@Naoshi WE GONNA FITE IN MINECRAFT WII U

 

[Substitution]

I just want first parties. We already have a good amount of third parties as it is, and I'm hoping they could instead bring some new or veteran Nintendo reps.

 

[Deleted member]

Actually, inputs per minute does define gameplay. Gameplay is the player's interaction with the game world, done through inputs.

I didn't say TB is objectively worse than ARPG. I said that the latter has more actual gameplay, you can't argue against that since gameplay is literally the player's interaction with the game, and ARPGs have you constantly do this outside of cutscenes, while TB RPGs don't. The average required inputs per minute is a gauge for how much gameplay a game actually features. Thinking about strategies is not part of the gameplay as you can actually do this without booting up the game. You execute your strategies through inputs though, and since carrying out a strategy in an ARPG requires more inputs than a TB RPG, ARPGs do indeed have more gameplay.

Actually, it really depends on what you are defining as "gameplay". Street Fighter IV as Ultra Attacks that go into a cutscene, but it is very much a significant part of the gameplay and gameplay experience. So even though you stop for that moment, it's part of the game balance and part of that initial gameplay to do said move. You still execute it all, it's just some games execute them in different ways, it's still gameplay imo.

 

[ChikoLad]

Actually, it really depends on what you are defining as "gameplay". Street Fighter IV as Ultra Attacks that go into a cutscene, but it is very much a significant part of the gameplay and gameplay experience. So even though you stop for that moment, it's part of the game balance and part of that initial gameplay to do said move. You still execute it all, it's just some games execute them in different ways, it's still gameplay imo.

But those moves don't define the whole experience of Street Fighter, and aren't required either. Outside of those brief breaks for big fancy super moves, you are active.

Those cutscenes super moves are every move in a TB RPG, though.

 

[KenboCalrissian]

Man, the stars are literally aligning for Banjo-Kazooie to finally enter Smash. There's only one hurdle left. Unfortunately it's the biggest one.

Spoiler

Hasn't he expressed interest in the characters in the past? @PushDustIn, do you know?

 

[Deleted member]

Actually, inputs per minute does define gameplay. Gameplay is the player's interaction with the game world, done through inputs.

I didn't say TB is objectively worse than ARPG. I said that the latter has more actual gameplay, you can't argue against that since gameplay is literally the player's interaction with the game, and ARPGs have you constantly do this outside of cutscenes, while TB RPGs don't. The average required inputs per minute is a gauge for how much gameplay a game actually features. Thinking about strategies is not part of the gameplay as you can actually do this without booting up the game. You execute your strategies through inputs though, and since carrying out a strategy in an ARPG requires more inputs than a TB RPG, ARPGs do indeed have more gameplay.

From Wikipedia
"Gameplay is the specific way in which players interact with a game, and in particular with video games. Gameplay is the pattern defined through the game rules, connection between player and the game, challenges and overcoming them, plot and player's connection with it."
As you can see, it's not just about the buttons you press

 

[TheAnvil]

Hasn't he expressed interest in the characters in the past? @PushDustIn, do you know?

Considered for Melee http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/04/13/the-definitive-unused-fighters-list-in-smash/.

 

[Soul.]

The announcement came from a guy working on indie stuff at Nintendo and people get disappointed lmao

They should have set their expectations low.

 

[wildvine47]

Hasn't he expressed interest in the characters in the past? @PushDustIn, do you know?

IIRC, the only time he commented on them was in relation to trophies in Melee, which he said he couldn't do due to "adult matters." Although, considering his negotiation skills with other companies now, something tells me that those "adult matters" don't really, well, matter as much now.

 

[Deleted member]

But those moves don't define the whole experience of Street Fighter, and aren't required either. Outside of those brief breaks for big fancy super moves, you are active.

Those cutscenes super moves are every move in a TB RPG, though.

In honesty, no move is required in Street Fighter, you can literally use any move and win.

Well, would you define Pokemon as having less gameplay compared to Mario?

 

[Strofirko]

Actually, inputs per minute does define gameplay. Gameplay is the player's interaction with the game world, done through inputs.

I didn't say TB is objectively worse than ARPG. I said that the latter has more actual gameplay, you can't argue against that since gameplay is literally the player's interaction with the game, and ARPGs have you constantly do this outside of cutscenes, while TB RPGs don't. The average required inputs per minute is a gauge for how much gameplay a game actually features. Thinking about strategies is not part of the gameplay as you can actually do this without booting up the game. You execute your strategies through inputs though, and since carrying out a strategy in an ARPG requires more inputs than a TB RPG, ARPGs do indeed have more gameplay.

You have a point,but you are using the wrong words.

 

[ChikoLad]

From Wikipedia
"Gameplay is the specific way in which players interact with a game, and in particular with video games. Gameplay is the pattern defined through the game rules, connection between player and the game, challenges and overcoming them, plot and player's connection with it."
As you can see, it's not just about the buttons you press

"Wikipedia"

You know in my college courses in game design, they always told me not to use Wikipedia for reports. Thanks for reminding me why. :V

In honesty, no move is required in Street Fighter, you can literally use any move and win.

Well, would you define Pokemon as having less gameplay compared to Mario?

Not if your opponent is good.

And yes, absolutely.

I mean Mario is often pretty devoid of STORY cut scenes to begin with...

 

[Jaedrik]

From Wikipedia
"Gameplay is the specific way in which players interact with a game, and in particular with video games. Gameplay is the pattern defined through the game rules, connection between player and the game, challenges and overcoming them, plot and player's connection with it."
As you can see, it's not just about the buttons you press

Neither of you have considered the fact that you're using different definitions of the word "gameplay," and that linking to an 'authority' won't change anything?

 

[DoodleDuck97]

In my opinion:

Crash Bandicoot, Master Chief, Banjo-Kazooie, Mickey Mouse, Spyro The Dragon

Would be a bigger deal than Cloud. They're all significant, and have an air of "holy crap these characters are in Smash to them". Rayman is borderline, as there's kind of a feeling that he's "likely" among a lot of people. Maybe a Resident Evil character. I feel like there are a couple others I'm overlooking too.

It might just be me.
But it feels weird to have all these third parties in the trophy section.

And then there's Rayman, just sitting In the "Other" Section along with Globox and Barbara.
It just feels so odd to me.

 

[Substitution]

So, with Minecraft on the Wii U, does this mean that Steve has a chance of getting into Smash?
Personally I'd ditch Smash if that ever happened, but hypothetically would it be possible?

 

[Jaedrik]

"Wikipedia"

You know in my college courses in game design, they always told me not to use Wikipedia for reports. Thanks for reminding me why. :V

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliability_of_Wikipedia
http://www.livescience.com/32950-how-accurate-is-wikipedia.html
http://www.cnet.com/news/study-wikipedia-as-accurate-as-britannica/
http://www.pcworld.com/article/251796/has_wikipedia_beat_britannica_in_the_encyclopedia_battle_.html

Wikipedia represents the greatest advancement in information aggregation in the history of man. It will overtake all other encyclopedias.