Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[NintenZ]

Cloud was never a "joke in the Smash community". I've been in the community in some form or another for 15 years, and the impossible, stupid suggestion meme character has always been Goku (Shrek as well, for SSB4).

I don't understand why he's constantly being put on the same tier as Goku in these "CLOUD WAS IMPOSSIBLE, BUT HE GOT IN, SO <insert unrealistic character suggestion here> COULD HAPPEN!" posts.

I don't even see how the two correlate, anyway. Cloud is proof that a popular character with no ties to Nintendo could get into Smash, not that any random pipe dream character could. There is a huge difference between Cloud Strife and Geno.



In other words "If one impossible scenario happened, it would cause another impossible scenario to happen!".

I'm just saying that it doesn't matter how important you are to the video game scene, all you have to hae done to have appeared in Smash Bros is appear in a video game.

So yes, this means that a character like Call of Duty soldier is eligible.

 

[LIQUID12A]

If anything, Cloud's inclusion only made Geno more viable as a Mii costume. It's really the perfect role for him with Square officially joining Smash.

People saying a character is impossible or unlikely doesn't make that character a meme.

I kid.

 

[NintenZ]

Eligible does not mean likely. That's all there is to it. There's no question all video game originating characters are eligible. That's clear. But likely? Definitely not.

I never said Geno was likely at all, only that he's eligible.

 

[BluePikmin11]

We don't know that. Square very well could have refused, wishing to push their character that they could actually get some use out of.

If Bayonetta indicates anything, characters from more niche series is certainly elligible for the ballot. Although less likely that Geno could won, your scenario is certainly possible if Sakurai was negotiating with the company.

 

[Bananija]

And may I remind you that Disney is making a film for him soon.

Wait what? A movie about gargoyle-satan you say? Where was I when this got announced? I hope it's good.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I never said Geno was likely at all, only that he's eligible.

Nor did I. My point is we're overall saying that eligible doesn't equal likely. At least, I'm saying it in a reasonable way.

This whole "impossible" stuff is laughable to me. The thing keeping some characters out is solely just the fact they haven't made a major impact in gaming. Which is specifically Sakurai's criteria. If he's not the next director, things could change, but I don't think they'd change heavily.

 

[Bedoop]

There's... a fallacy in the "One impossible thing happened; so another can/will" argument as well.

If you won the lottery, would you then reinvest that money for more lottery tickets?

If I won the lottery, I would use all the cash I got to build a giant bridge from Ontario to Europe so I can drive there without having the risk of crashing and dieing in an aeroplane or hitting something, sinking and being eaten by sharks in a boat
Why Europe?
IDK
I hear it has early release dates for good games nowadays

 

[A Distant Demon]

If Bayonetta indicates anything, characters from more niche series is certainly elligible for the ballot. Although less likely that Geno could won, your scenario is certainly possible.

SEGA!=Square
A character that is still relevant!=Geno

 

[Fatmanonice]

The WarioWare series eclipsed Wario Land after its introduction.

As for the part about characters....if the main series couldn't get any playable representation past variations of the Triforce trio, there is absolutely no chance of a spinoff getting one. And you've gotta remember that there's a pretty huge gap between each Smash, with the exception of 64 and Melee. Brawl came out roughly 7 years after Melee, and SSB4 came out roughly 6 years after Brawl. Do you really think Hyrule Warriors is going to have such a lasting legacy that it'll be chosen as the basis for Zelda content in SSB5 over the next main Zelda title?

But it's still a spinoff and the Wario Land games didn't completely end. Wario World and Wario Ware were the same year, Master of Disguise was 2007, and Shake It was 2009, not to mention that Wario still had a presence in the Mario spinoff games that entire timespan. If you really want to go broader on the subject, Yoshi and DK are Mario spinoffs too and I don't think anyone would call them irrelevant.

I wouldn't be surprised if Hyrule Warriors continues on, especially with Hyrule Warrior Legends' ending and its developers strongly implying that the series was going to keep going based on its success. It's hardly a one and done. As for the Triforce Trio, LoZ doesn't really have a lot of major reoccuring characters. Tingle's series did okay in Japan but flopped in Europe and that's about it. Most of the fan favorites of the series are one and done: Vaati (Wizard form), Groose, Girahim, Skull Kid, Midna, the Seven Sages in OoT, Linebeck, etc. Hyrule Warriors is kind of a game changer. Impa and Lana are major characters and you'd be nuts to think that Linkle is just going to fade into obscurity, considering she was created by sheer fan demand to begin with. Hyrule Warriors definitely has a future and, unless the next game absolutely tanks, I can easily see it sticking around until Smash 5.

 

[Kurri ★]

If I won the lottery, I would use all the cash I got to build a giant bridge from Ontario to Europe so I can drive there without having the risk of crashing and dieing in an aeroplane or hitting something, sinking and being eaten by sharks in a boat
Why Europe?
IDK
I hear it has early release dates for good games nowadays

But what if the bridge breaks, or you run out of gas?

 

[Burb]

I never said Geno was likely at all, only that he's eligible.

So are the Angry Sun, Gwonam the Wizard, Candy Kong, and Big the Cat.

"Eligible" means absolutely nothing.

Most of the fan favorites of the series are one and done: Vaati (Wizard form), Groose, Girahim, Skull Kid, Midna, the Seven Sages in OoT, Linebeck, etc. Hyrule Warriors is kind of a game changer. Impa and Lana are major characters and you'd be nuts to think that Linkle is just going to fade into obscurity, considering she was created by sheer fan demand to begin with. Hyrule Warriors definitely has a future and, unless the next game absolutely tanks, I can easily see it sticking around until Smash 5.

.....Yup, I do think Linkle will fade into obscurity. I think she'll be taking Lana, HW Impa, Cia, and the rest of the gang along with her, too.

As you stated yourself, Zelda doesn't typically do reoccurring characters. I don't think characters from a spinoff are going to last, especially when one of them is just another version of the Zelda series' equivalent of Cid.

 

[Bedoop]

But what if the bridge breaks, or you run out of gas?

If the bridge breaks
Darn
If I run out of gas
I'll walk there, it'll only take like 2 weeks to stroll across the Pacific at a leisurely pace
I got things to do and merchants to see in Europe

 

[BluePikmin11]

Those examples are characters whose roles in their respective series are far more minor than Geno.

And Geno was pretty important to the overall story of Super Mario RPG.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

U ****ing wat m8? How the hell can you hate someone as badass as this? He's easily a better villain than the likes of Maleficent and Jafar combined.

And may I remind you that Disney is making a film for him soon.

Being a representation of Satan certainly helps. And he does have his place in mythology, so there's that going for him.

Well you two aren't wrong, he is a pretty powerful villain in his own right being based on the Dark Prince and all (despite being named after a Russian dark god).

Maybe I didn't like him that much because people treated him like he was THE scariest thing Disney had to offer while that's false when we look at other films (Hellooooooooo Horned King). And then there's the fact that he's the ONLY thing people think of when it comes to the original Fantasia instead of the other equally good segments other than Sorcerer Mickey. Since not many people are doing anymore with Bill stealing his thunder, I can say that it shouldn't be fair to judge him like that.

In fact, I would like to see that movie whenever Disney announced it so that we may finally see some real development out of the Bald Mountain Demon. Heh, Bald Mountain Demon.

 

[Kurri ★]

If the bridge breaks
Darn
If I run out of gas
I'll walk there, it'll only take like 2 weeks to stroll across the Pacific at a leisurely pace
I got things to do and merchants to see in Europe

But food and water. You can't drink ocean water, it's salty.

You should just go back and browse dank maymays. It's safe and easy.

 

[BluePikmin11]

SEGA!=Square
A character that is still relevant!=Geno

Didn't I state that Square's problem with character rights was also a possibility, I don't deny it.
Although I think relevancy matters less so, moreso with overall worldwide popularity mattering more.

 

[NintenZ]

Nor did I. My point is we're overall saying that eligible doesn't equal likely. At least, I'm saying it in a reasonable way.

This whole "impossible" stuff is laughable to me. The thing keeping some characters out is solely just the fact they haven't made a major impact in gaming. Which is specifically Sakurai's criteria. If he's not the next director, things could change, but I don't think they'd change heavily.

Oh alright then.

Yeah I don't find Geno the most likely character (Unless popularity is really what matters) but I do think he's a vauge possibility now that the gates have been opened for more things to come.

However things could very well change if we were to get a new director.

Gwonam the Wizard

Geno/=/Gwonam the Wizard.

Also at least Geno was important in a game and people know who he is, I've never even heard of this character, and that's a serious accomplishment.

 

[Bedoop]

But food and water. You can't drink ocean water, it's salty.

You should just go back and browse dank maymays. It's safe and easy.

But I don't like dank maymays, Lady Kurri
I like Merchants

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Wait what? A movie about gargoyle-satan you say? Where was I when this got announced? I hope it's good.

Yes, it was announced about last year on Business Insider. Maybe we can see his true origins or know more about the secrets of Bald Mountain.

As much as I loved the original short, I felt that Chernabog was a wee bit underdeveloped as a character since the original Fantasia shorts were too short. But with a new movie on the horizon like Maleficent, we may get to know more about his sinister character (and probably see how much the local humans wanted to exorcist the demon).

http://www.businessinsider.com/disney-chernabog-live-action-movie-2015-6

 

[Burb]

Oh alright then.

Yeah I don't find Geno the most likely character (Unless popularity is really what matters) but I do think he's a vauge possibility now that the gates have been opened for more things to come.

However things could very well change if we were to get a new director.

Geno/=/Gwonam the Wizard.

Also at least Geno was important in a game and people know who he is, I've never even heard of this character, and that's a serious accomplishment.

Those examples are characters whose roles in their respective series are far more minor than Geno.

And Geno was pretty important to the overall story of Super Mario RPG.

Important overall to the story of one game. From the mid-90s. From the end of the SNES' lifespan. That didn't sell particularly well. That wasn't even initially released worldwide. And was a spinoff.

Who cares if he's important to SMRPG? SMRPG is a small part of a major series. The Sprixie Princesses were important to Super Mario 3D World. Do you think they'll be in the next Smash?

Spoiler

It's not even true, anyway. Big had his own story in SA2, and Gwonam kicked off the plot in Link: Faces of Evil. They were very much important to their games of origin.

The part about a new director is laughable, by the way. Not only do I not see Sakurai stepping down, but what are the chances of them finding a director who's among those who think that a one off character from a single Mario spinoff is Smash newcomer material? Creating ridiculous hypothetical situations doesn't make anything likelier.

 

[LIQUID12A]

Being important in one game really doesn't solidify a character as major to their franchise.

I of course look like a hypocrite saying that because I want a character that hasn't had a game in 8 years but is ironically more plausible due to being first party and soon to be relevant.

And even I'll admit my character is a massive long shot.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't know if i should be asking here (and i apologize in advance if i shouldn't) but:

Spoiler

Does anybody here know how to use photoshop?
If so, can i make some sort of request?

 

[NintenZ]

So are the Angry Sun, Gwonam the Wizard, Candy Kong, and Big the Cat.

"Eligible" means absolutely nothing.



.....Yup, I do think Linkle will fade into obscurity. I think she'll be taking Lana, HW Impa, Cia, and the rest of the gang along with her, too.

As you stated yourself, Zelda doesn't typically do reoccurring characters. I don't think characters from a spinoff are going to last, especially when one of them is just another version of the Zelda series' equivalent of Cid.

Well to be fair Aonuma did say that they'd consider Linkle for future installments of the Zelda series, whenever a new game is put into production.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

All aboard the hype train! I hope Disney can do him some justice once the movie is announced with a spoopy trailer and lots of attitude.

Just don't make him a joke like Him from the Powderpuff Girls.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I don't think Geno is ridiculous as of a request as the others you mentioned. I think he barely achieves the minimum of appearing on a Nintendo console and being a video game character to be eligible. But that's just my opinion.

 

[Deleted member]

Important overall to the story of one game. From the mid-90s. From the end of the SNES' lifespan. That didn't sell particularly well. That wasn't even initially released worldwide. And was a spinoff.

Who cares if he's important to SMRPG? SMRPG is a small part of a major series. The Sprixie Princesses were important to Super Mario 3D World. Do you think they'll be in the next Smash?

Spoiler

It's not even true, anyway. Big had his own story in SA2, and Gwonam kicked off the plot in Link: Faces of Evil. They were very much important to their games of origin.

The part about a new director is laughable, by the way. Not only do I not see Sakurai stepping down, but what are the chances of them finding a director who's among those who think that a one off character from a single Mario spinoff is Smash newcomer material? Creating ridiculous hypothetical situations doesn't make anything likelier.

Correction.
Big had his own story in SA1, not 2.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Just don't make him a joke like Him from the Powderpuff Girls.

You dare call of the greatest Cartoon Network Villain a joke!?

 

[IceBreakerXY]

I supported and really like the idea of Cloud and for awhile Sora(not as much as cloud but i have thought be be a cool addition).I think there's a differece between joke characters,unlikely characters,pipe dream characters.Someone like Goku,Shrek and Cory are joke characters.I know this seems like basic stuff but you'd be surprise how many people on this forum dont know this.An unlikely character would probably be the characters we saw for DLC more so Cloud and bayonetta.One of the main reasons cloud,bayonetta,and ryu were unlikely characters were just that they just felt unlikely.Like why would sakurai add a character whose never been on nintendo consoles,why would sakurai add a character who would probably raise the rating of the game,why would sakurai add a fighting game character to his fighitng game.People thought they were possible choices but just didn't have a big enough to think they would ever happen.Pipe dream characters to me are characters like Geno,Frisk,Mike Jones,hell even a character i support to death Shovel Knight.Their either indie,too little know ,made by western developers, or have been dead for so many years that their own company doesn't care about them.

 

[Burruni]

I want to open this saying that I was a supporter for Geno even into early Smash 4 speculation.

Geno's largest issue, and grows so with every year, is irrelevancy.

The fact that he's had two appearances in the past 19 years; both being small cameos is very daunting against him.

As much as people may want to toss or as justification...

's two games have been in the past 6 years. Both of which, while not selling greatly, got some of the best awards possible for itself. One of these two being a 3rd Party game that Nintendo pushed for the funding personally and got it and a port/remake of the first game included in thanks for the chance. Even such an "insignificant" character placed as well as she did.

is CLOUD FRIGGIN STRIFE.

FF7 was 17 years ago now. Yes. But it was a game that is one that shaped gaming. And I do NOT use those words lightly. This is a game that, in spite of how poorly some of the visuals have aged, has stood the test of time in just about every front and for YEARS has been one of the most requested remakes in gaming history. Even past this "one game," Cloud has been ever present in gaming. FF7's supplemental material, Kingdom Hearts, his outfit in FF13, being one of the most requested characters for PSASBR, Dissidia, and the mobile games that FF has delved in have put him as one of the most promoted.

The RAW HYPE we saw for Cloud. didn't match it and THAT says something. As mixed as I am about him, is the only other character who got people as excited as Cloud did.

 

[Deleted member]

You dare call of the greatest Cartoon Network Villain a joke!?

The greatest Cartoon Network villain?

Surely you must be joking.

 

[NintenZ]

Important overall to the story of one game. From the mid-90s. From the end of the SNES' lifespan. That didn't sell particularly well. That wasn't even initially released worldwide. And was a spinoff.

Who cares if he's important to SMRPG? SMRPG is a small part of a major series. The Sprixie Princesses were important to Super Mario 3D World. Do you think they'll be in the next Smash?

Spoiler

It's not even true, anyway. Big had his own story in SA2, and Gwonam kicked off the plot in Link: Faces of Evil. They were very much important to their games of origin.

The part about a new director is laughable, by the way. Not only do I not see Sakurai stepping down, but what are the chances of them finding a director who's among those who think that a one off character from a single Mario spinoff is Smash newcomer material? Creating ridiculous hypothetical situations doesn't make anything likelier.

That conversation wasn't directed at you for one, and you had misinterpreted what I had said.

By the rules changing, I meant Geno's chances could lessen if the new director decides to return to form.

 

[wedl!!]

so to change the current discussion

I'm currently playing against Board's very own @ASC | Red Ryu on FG randomly

and his drunk Peach/Cloud

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

The greatest Cartoon Network villain?

Surely you must be joking.

This guy knows what's up.

And I'd say Katz is up there too.

 

[Burruni]

If we're talking Cartoon Network villains...

Grandfather did achieve Global Domination.

 

[NintenZ]

Wait guys this was the best CN villan!

Spoiler: Big Image

If we count Toonami that is...

Okay for real...

Probably gonna go with Ice King.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Ice King will always be the best villain. No denying it.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Wait guys this was the best CN villan!

Spoiler: Big Image

If we count Toonami that is...

Okay for real...

Probably gonna go with Golden.

Freiza isn't even the best DBZ villain

Bow to perfection

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Wait guys this was the best CN villan!

Spoiler: Big Image

If we count Toonami that is...

If we go there, then I know someone who easily beats him.

 

[Chrono.]

Eddy's brother tho

 

[Burruni]

I'm just going to say.

THIS IS ONE OF THE WORST TEASES IN CARTOON HISTORY.