Super Smash Flash 2

[dettadeus]

Copied from the discussion thread on MG forums:

Hail Yoshi. He is all powerful.

So here's my real quick review for 0.8a. (Yes, I'm a Crusade dev, but ignore that fact since I have no bias for either game).
First things first, I can't figure out why, but the audio is really buggy on mine. I talked with some other people and it appears I might be the only one with the issue. :/
This is my first time playing SSF2 in a while, so I was surprised you guys have so many beautiful stages. Fall-through platforms are a bit annoying for me (I keep crouching instead) but I'll probably get used to that.
Also on the topics of graphics, all of your sprites are amazing. ^_^
I've noticed a couple of bugs with the ledges. For instance, Megaman grabbing the right edge of Final Destination while he was still on-stage after I spiked him with Yoshi's F-Air. I have this recorded.
It feels like it flows a lot better than 0.7 (from what I can remember, I didn't play 0.7 a lot tbh because it felt kinda weird). I still have to get used to double-tap running though.
Not sure if this applies to other characters as well, but when Yoshi throws items, they are thrown from the wrong place. For example, while in the air and facing left, I threw a Pokeball straight down and it shot down from about 3 Yoshi-widths to my right.

This is just in about a half hour of playing. Very nice demo from what I can tell.
/review

I think I'll be maining Yoshi in this version. He's extremely fun to play as so far. His combos flow well and are easy to work with.
Some things I noticed he can do:
-Infinite regrab. Grab > Pummel > Grab Release > Grab. This pushes him back slightly.
-On heavier characters (and those with higher falling speeds) Yoshi can Pillar. D-Throw > SH F-Air. This applies in a very large percent range. It can also kill if near the edge.
-His aerials have almost no landing lag. The one aerial Yoshi really had landing lag on in Brawl and Melee was D-Air, but now it's actually usable in combos. B-Air combos into just about everything when landing-cancelled (as it should). F-Air can combo into a couple of moves, noticeably D- and F-Tilts.
-His B-Air is amazing. It seems like you can cancel it into an U-Air, which is great for killing.
-Neutral Special gives him quite a bit of time to rack up damage. Or that might just be the CPU not breaking out.
-Up Special has insane edgeguarding uses. It has pretty good knockback and is easy to aim. I've also combo'd an Egg into another move, but this was by accident.
Just some quick things I noticed while playing him.

Also, a Yoshi combo video I whipped up if anyone's interested.

HAIL YOSHI.

 

[[TSON]]

Hm, alright wellllllll

First things first, I can't figure out why, but the audio is really buggy on mine.

Like...how so? Does it not play or?

Fall-through platforms are a bit annoying for me (I keep crouching instead) but I'll probably get used to that.

Doubletap down instead of just pressing down c:

-On heavier characters (and those with higher falling speeds) Yoshi can Pillar. D-Throw > SH F-Air. This applies in a very large percent range. It can also kill if near the edge.

You can tech in this demo! (CPUs are just bad at it usually)

-His aerials have almost no landing lag. The one aerial Yoshi really had landing lag on in Brawl and Melee was D-Air, but now it's actually usable in combos. B-Air combos into just about everything when landing-cancelled (as it should). F-Air can combo into a couple of moves, noticeably D- and F-Tilts.

An intentional improvement! It's like in Brawl+, Auto-L-Cancelling.

-Infinite regrab. Grab > Pummel > Grab Release > Grab. This pushes him back slightly.

Nope! Every character has a way out. CPUs just don't utilize them yet >.<

I'm glad you're enjoying the demo, though! We had a blast making it c:

 

[dettadeus]

Like...how so? Does it not play or?

Actually it just happened the first time. I reloaded it and the audio works now.

You can tech in this demo! (CPUs are just bad at it usually)

You can tech the initial hit from Yoshi's D-Throw? Huh.
EDIT: Tested it, you can't tech the throw, so D-throw > F-Air will still work. The follow-up turns into a techchase situation though.

Nope! Every character has a way out. CPUs just don't utilize them yet >.<

I was talking with RoyMaster about it and he said that it is actually infinite. I'll have to do some testing on that.
EDIT: Dang, you can jump out of it. >.<

Also Peach is pretty fun. She can't kill until crazy percents, but man, that 38% D-Smash...

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

Wow, I've been playing .8 for about an hour or so and it's really exceeded my expectations, especially in terms of physics. Combos flow really well and DI and teching are just as important as in Melee. The characters all feel really polished, unique, and interesting and it's pretty amazing to see all Brawl psa's, codesets, and fan games creating new things and finding inspiration from each other. I just wish there were smarter CPU's that could tech and DI properly but I'm sure that'll come in time.

Also, Sora's nair is pretty lulzy, I'll upload a video in a bit to show you what I mean.

 

[mariodk]

it's pretty amazing to see all Brawl psa's, codesets, and fan games creating new things and finding inspiration from each other.

that i can only agree on
like me who making PSAs for brawl i got much inspiration for my Goku moveset from here like my brawl Goku´s up-B,Down-Smash is ideas from here and maybe more
its better Goku moveset here then in SSBC´s that one is lame(already in v0.7 was it better then SSBC´s) and will for sure also get many ideas from here then i start on my own version of naruto moveset (ofc the possible ones)

anyway i finnaly finished the Downloading and i will say its amazing work on all chars. and Naruto is my new main in V0.8 before was it Goku/mario now is it naruto/mario

 

[Tid]

32 minutes to midnight here, i it doesnt come out i am going to be dissapointed at you TSON >:/

EDIT: ****ing guests, YOU ARE NOT SATTISFIED FROM COLLAPSING MG FORUMS!!!! DO YOU WANT TO TAKE THIS ONE TOO!!!!! I WILL NOT LET THAT HAPPEN!!!!!!!!

AÑVNAÑBJJABVÑJABVJPAB VJABÑJKVBKABFÑKÑAJBFJK

XD

oh my god do you have to add XD to absolutely every post you make no matter where you go?

Anyway it's nice to see all of this positive feedback, as well as some fair criticisms.
0.8b will basically be a "fixup" update, where we'll take into account the feedback we've gotten and the things we've found ourselves to create a better version of the same demo. Think of it as a polished 0.8. You can probably expect it in January.

 

[[TSON]]

it's pretty amazing to see all Brawl psa's, codesets, and fan games creating new things and finding inspiration from each other.

That's honestly my favorite part of working on a game of this caliber. You can reference anything from Wario's down smash and shoulder bash in P:M to Zero's cancellable air-dash for Sonic to create a masterpiece of a game that's interesting for everyone to play. Innovative, but subtle.

 

[SuperFlash38]

That's honestly my favorite part of working on a game of this caliber. You can reference anything from Wario's down smash and shoulder bash in P:M to Zero's cancellable air-dash for Sonic to create a masterpiece of a game that's interesting for everyone to play. Innovative, but subtle.

Hold your horses! You mean Zero is in v0.8 or something else?
Either way, can anybody tell me how to unlock all stages(and Zero if he's in)
One more thing! Since when does random count as a target smash participant (gets it's own time record)?

 

[Jaklub]

Zero's cancellable air-dash

Zero's cancellable air-dash for Sonic

There you go, SuperFlash38

 

[[TSON]]

What Jaklub said.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

Quick video showing how stupidly good Sora's nair is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCJVoTHngQk

The description pretty much explains all of it. That third clip is when I first found out about reversing and I can do it perfectly on all characters regardless of stage now.

 

[[TSON]]

DI should help with that hopefully, since in SSF2 you can DI non-tumble attacks.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

What direction do you DI when you're opponent has to option to hit you left or right?

 

[[TSON]]

Up, or down and tech

 

[dettadeus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1bSwRWjtM4
Busy being ALL of the awesome.

Team Fair: Naruto + Captain Falcon

 

[[TSON]]

Oh boy. That second-to-last combo was tasty

 

[dettadeus]

I would've made it the last combo, but all the other ones were in order of when I pulled them off in the match. I just took the 6 minute recording and clipped out anything that wasn't a Fair combo.
But yeah, if I mained Naruto, I would take every stock with that combo.

 

[dettadeus]

Double post but NEW COMBO VIDEO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MmXhDgmbxA
It's the sequel to the one I posted earlier. And it's full-length. And actually good.

 

[felipe_9595]

LoL At Crusade devs being incredible good at SSF 2 XDDDDDDDDD (me at BtT And Dett at Vs XD)

 

[Battlecow]

Hey, can I get a prelim .8 tier list from someone? I was the king of Champaign in .7 and everyone's scrambling to take my spot in .8. I don't want to waste time getting good with a useless char/get beat because a friend picked a better char than me.

Or at least can a developer or someone who knows what they're talking about tell me the top 2/3 chars in their opinion?

Thanks a bunch.

 

[[TSON]]

Just main Yoshi, basically.

After that, things get a bit more complicated.. Ichigo, Lloyd, MM, Sora, Fox, Mario, Goku, Tails, BM and Naruto (in no order) are all quite good.

 

[Battlecow]

Thanks

I have a $200 MM on Monday, so I'm nervous as hell and I gotta get some hours in. Any particularly cheap/easy/effective strategies?

 

[dettadeus]

Thanks

I have a $200 MM on Monday, so I'm nervous as hell and I gotta get some hours in. Any particularly cheap/easy/effective strategies?

http://smashflashbackroom.englishboards.com/t452-yoshi-why-he-s-pretty-dang-op
I made a big topic about stuff Yoshi can do.
Basically, B-Air > Ground > Jab > Grab > U-Throw > U-Air a bunch > U-Special when U-Air knocks them too far. Camp near the edges facing towards the center of the stage, and if your opponent approaches, use Egg Lay to get a free stock.

 

[CXXXV]

I personally find Up-B aimed upwards to be a very effective anti-approach option, can anyone confirm this?

 

[dettadeus]

I personally find Up-B aimed upwards to be a very effective anti-approach option, can anyone confirm this?

As which character? Yoshi? Just spamming U-Special directly at the opponent or doing SH-B-Air as a Fence of Pain would be better for anti-approach.

 

[TheCatPhysician]

Just found out about this game, looks really interesting. So is using some kind of controller via USB pretty much standard for anyone who's actually good at this?

 

[Battlecow]

are there any player vs. player matches on YT (from .7 or .8)?

Also, do you guys have extensive PvP experience, or is it all vs. CPU?

 

[standardtoaster]

Thanks

I have a $200 MM on Monday, so I'm nervous as hell and I gotta get some hours in. Any particularly cheap/easy/effective strategies?

The 200 is a typo right? o.o

 

[[TSON]]

Just found out about this game, looks really interesting. So is using some kind of controller via USB pretty much standard for anyone who's actually good at this?

You definitely can get damn good with the keyboard, although it feels weird playing without tap jump at first.

are there any player vs. player matches on YT (from .7 or .8)?

Also, do you guys have extensive PvP experience, or is it all vs. CPU?

I have a lot of both, you should check out Zalozis on YouTube, he's got quite a few full matches and combo videos from the past 2 demos.

Thanks

I have a $200 MM on Monday, so I'm nervous as hell and I gotta get some hours in. Any particularly cheap/easy/effective strategies?

Damn man, 200?!

Idk, egg lay is gay in general, use that alot.

 

[dettadeus]

So I hear Black Mage took lessons from Ken.

 

[felipe_9595]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB17E2cQmxQ

COMBO VIDEO!!!!

 

[[TSON]]

A friend of mine is doing a stream if you guys wanna check it out

http://www.livestream.com/koshehtime

EDIT: Starts at 9 (that's in an hour if you're not EST)

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

My first impressions:

played this for a...long time. Tested a ton of mechanics...

Goku is by far the best. Hes ****ing broken. He has an incredible teleport (which has a hitbox, you can do moves after, and autocombos into his entire moveset), and by the end of my session I was pulling off 0-deaths every stock. His projectile approach is pretty much unstoppable.

Ichigo and Lloyd are next. They are a lot easier to play than Goku and can just spam range. Their uairs are absurd, and both have combos off throws. Lloyd's tempest is hilariously good. Both have terrible recoveries tho.

After that, other than Sora and Naruto the entire cast is garbage. The returning characters can't compete with the new ****. Megaman might be the worst character in smash history tho. They gave him a super interesting down B to projectile spam with...but it doesnt matter when Goku is teleporting behind you and comboing you to death lol.

I wasn't able to test a lot of defensive stuff (DI, etc) but most advanced techniques aren't present. Moves go until completion on landing (Castlevania style), there is no wavedashing, and I suppose there is no tripping but dashdancing is garbage so who cares. The dash speeds in general are super slow so its very tough to avoid things like an ichigo or lloyd spamming sword in your face. There are a lot of unpunishable moves....rolls are great tho to make up for it but overall, defense is *** and if you get hit you die.

Fun fun. I'm really impressed by the guy who made it. Must have taken a lot of dedication

I could be completely wrong but thats what I got out of my first session. Never played any other builds so I'm completely new. I was pleasantly surprised by how easy I was able to combo and control my characters

I'm reading what you guys are saying about yoshi but after playtesting it I'm....more than skeptical lol.

 

[[TSON]]

You really need to take a second look, a lot of our characters (Yoshi, case and point) are bad on first glance but are actually ridiculously good. Black Mage is also crazy good, because of Haste mostly.

Yoshi has basically infinite property on sideB, massive combos out of bair, autocombo uair, eggs have like infinite priority... Crazy stuff.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

Do you guys plan on making Pika's uair flip the normal direction again? It doesn't really do anything to make it face the other way except for force you to face the opposite direction of what you would normally do in Melee/64 so I don't see any reason to keep it flipped other than to troll Pika mains.

 

[dettadeus]

...I'm pretty sure it's exactly the same as it was in Brawl.
And the ending of it is a semi-spike. When his tail is coming down.

 

[[TSON]]

Yeah... It's the same. Iunno what you're talking about.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

I main Blackmage, and I must say, he's pretty dam good lol, He can chaingrab people to about 40% into a spike, at the ledge he can downthrow spike lol.

 

[felipe_9595]

I main Blackmage, and I must say, he's pretty dam good lol, He can chaingrab people to about 40% into a spike, at the ledge he can downthrow spike lol.

Yep, he is top 3 at least. The grab box for haste is ridicolous. Its almsot the half of the FD, by far the best edgeguarder and anti-edgeguarder of the game. Dthrow comboes into everything, same for Ground canceled uair. Dair is one of the best spike of the game.

There is a flash 2 BR if you are interested

http://smashflashbackroom.englishboards.com/

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Yea, his sideb is ridiculous, definitely needs a range nerf, or made so it can only catch people horizontally, not slightly vertically.

My change list to it would be something along the lines of;

Range nerf/ only pure horizontal range
Less knockback
Haste can only catch people from like say(making up numbers, don't know frame data) 4-7, and should have a higher cooldown if it whiffs
And going into freefalll even if you catch somebody with it(maybe)