Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[Autumn ♫]

Not to stave you guys from playing solo Zelda but she is god awful and the only reason you are probably winning those games is because your opponent is severely outclassed in gameplay mechanics and/or doesn't know the MU.

In all honesty, Zelda is one of those characters you can learn the MU for in like 1 game imo.

What's MU. I thought it meant My Unit...

 

[Baskerville]

Its Matchup

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The TP-inspired Sheik might not have been created for Smash at all. It's also been saidmit was meant for TP itself, but Sheik got scrapped from the game. This further proofs Nintendo actually does NOT care for Sheik at all. Since they made Impa return in Skysard Sword, which is the major Zelda console game after Twilight Princess. Impa could've easily been Sheik, but they chose Impa instead. And they will do so again the next time me thinks.

And yet it was Nintendo who gave Sakurai the Sheik design specifically. After they had made it. Yes, Sheik wasn't needed for TP because there was no good way to put her in the story. They already had Midna, who the story revolved around. Not an issue.(Ganondorf was clearly thrown into the story later, of course) How could Sheik return for SS when SS is a prequel to OOT, before Sheik existed? TP, sure, that would've made sense for Sheik to be in. SS? No, not whatsoever. Because Sheik didn't exist in the timeline yet. Impa did, respectively(and more realistically).

None of this makes any sense if they wanted the game to be a prequel. This really doesn't mean anything for Smash since Sheik is a major part of Zelda IN Smash. They were designed to be a combo character from the get-go, and I don't see why Sakurai would change that. If it means to re-use a design of Sheik, I don't see why that would be a big deal either. Or he'd make a new design. Again, SS isn't some big stepping stone for Impa at all, it just slightly heightens the chance for Sakurai to give her some slight recognition, but a Trophy is just far more likely.

@KumaOso: Sorry, I don't buy that as an excuse to not give Impa a trophy in Brawl. Saria was less important than Impa anyway, and she had a song in Melee. Impa barely got a mention in a Trophy. She just doesn't hold much importance to him, which is a key factor in this. She was also very recent enough to get one. She was also a very important character in the overall series... or so it keeps being said. Yet Sakurai doesn't think of her that way. Even Tingle got more. First a Trophy, than an upgrade to an Assist Trophy. Impa, the 5th most important character(that isn't a true main one), should've had a trophy in Melee or at least Brawl. Still didn't. ...Oh, wait, she didn't have a Sticker either. I think that says a lot, when she's unmentioned in Smash despite her "important" role in the Zelda series, when Tingle still has a Trophy in Melee and Brawl. It's clear who he cares about.

 

[Autumn ♫]

I actually see Impa appearing in SSB4 with or without Sheik. Sakarai may have trouble having both Sheik and Zelda in the same slot and decide to separate them and it would be a smarter idea to have Impa as a standalone character than Sheik as a standalone character.

@trophy thing
Wolf didn't have a trophy in Melee and he made it into Brawl so I don't see why the same thing couldn't happen to Impa.

 

[vicgur]

Well, as Link in Smash 4 confirms, the Zelda characters, or at least the Links and Zelda, are composite characters of their canon counterparts. This makes things all the more tricky for Zelda though. Link's appearance has generally been kept the same minus design evolutions and art style changes. Zelda was pretty much this, but everything changed with Waifu Zelda. She was different from all the other Zeldas that came after her both in appearance and personality.

I would like if they used the Waifu Zelda personality with a regal design inspired by her Skyward Sword clothes. She really was the best Zelda in the series.

I really liked the term "Waifu Zelda" XD

 

[FlareHabanero]

Of course Diddy Kong would come in to talk about Impa.
Of course it would ruin a perfectly fine discussion.

Of. ****ing. Course.

 

[Kamikazek]

I've never understood the "Sheik is holding back Zelda" argument.
1. Shiek goes Zelda gets a new down B, but she's still going to be the same type of character. Yes, the idea is presumably that Shiek racks up damage and Zelda does the killer moves. I don't think that would change if the two are separated. There are stand alone character in the game who are good at building up damage but not at killing and there are characters that hit had but are hard to hit with(just look at Gannondorf!), so Sakurai is fine with a character being one or the other.
2. This is just a guess, but as far as I can tell, Sakurai doesn't seem to be trying to balance the characters so that one of them alone is weaker than the other characters, I think it's more balanced in mind of you could use one or the other, or both if you want, so I don't think Zelda would be balanced all that differently if Sheik was gone. And if he does try to balance them as a pair, it sure didn't stop solo Sheik from being top tier in melee anyway.
3. Solo Zelda is perfectly viable for casual play and intermediate play in Brawl. Me and my friends are intermediateish level Zelda always does fine. I've also meet more than one casual player who thinks she's overpowered. It's only at high level play that she really suffers, because high level play focuses on very particular aspects that some characters just don't focus in, but that doesn't make them a bad character. So if Sakurai is aiming for the "middle" level of skill like he's said in interviews there really isn't any need to change Zelda at all.

On a lighter note YAAAAAAY EARTHBOUND!

 

[Big-Cat]

And why are we discussing the whole importance thing to begin with? It's just one of the many arbitrary things we discuss on Smashboards.

And now for something totally different. I found this on Google:

ONE MILLION YEARS! ONION!

There was another good one I found, but the URL would get censored. It was Pikmin!Lemongrab chasing after a Bulborn with his sound sword. HIS SOUND SWORD!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Wolf didn't have a trophy in Melee and he made it into Brawl so I don't see why the same thing couldn't happen to Impa.

Wolf was in the Melee opening. Impa was not. So it's not as equal as we can think. His team of Wolfens fully appear in Venom and Corneria. In addition, he's mentioned in the Wolfen Trophy. So... yeah, he does have respectable appearances in Melee that Impa still lacks in any Smash. If anything, we know that Sheik's original Up B was an Impa move specifically, but that's only if you played OOT, as the Trophies don't note that either. It's sad, but Impa is completely currently not any part of Smash whatsoever thus far.

 

[Metal Overlord]

yall are still talking about Impa -_-

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I have no problems with them seperating Zelda and Sheik as a Zelda player it'd be nice for her down b to be freed up for something that's unique to her.

I also have no problem if once they seperated them they got rid of Sheik all together and put Impa in with a similar moveset. I do like Impa and she's a huge part of the Zelda history.

However. I just don't see this happening or likely to happen.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

yall are still talking about Impa -_-

Diddy Kong wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[Oddyesy]

I have no problems with them seperating Zelda and Sheik as a Zelda player it'd be nice for her down b to be freed up for something that's unique to her.

I also have no problem if once they seperated them they got rid of Sheik all together and put Impa in with a similar moveset. I do like Impa and she's a huge part of the Zelda history.

However. I just don't see this happening or likely to happen.

I don't see what could possibly be Zelda's down B..

 

[Opossum]

To change the subject, I propose a question.


If we know Dasher, Dancer, Prancer, Vixen, Comet, Cupid, Donder and Blitzen, why wouldn't you recall the most famous reindeer of all?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don't see what could possibly be Zelda's down B..

Bombos? Ether? Her Harp? Nayru's Love could move to that and she could do Fire Arrows for B. Not that I support her being separate, but there are options.

 

[metaknave]

If Impa makes it in, she'd better be a good Gimpa....

I'm sorry, but I'm in a punny mood today.

 

[Kamikazek]

Because you're old and can't be darned to learn about the new fangled reindeer all the kids are talking about.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Zelda's Down B can be anything. What about her holding down opponents like she held Ganon for Link in OOT? How about a lightning ball attack as in TP? How about that Triforce light magic attack from TP? Something with the Harp from SS? A healing attack with a Fairy? Anything goes.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If Impa makes it in, she'd better be a good Gimpa....

I'm sorry, but I'm in a punny mood today.

Her Oracles appearance is her best look. She actually looks ready to fight and protect Zelda. Not so much in her other appearances. Where she looks like a standalone character who has no real relation to Zelda at all.(key term being Zelda, not Sheik. And yes, I mean the character, not the franchise.)

...I did read that as Grandma Impa first and not Gimp Impa. Huh. Well, her Old or Heavyweight appearances are still cool none the less.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Interesting......it looks like a crossover.....two franchises currently having an anniversary.....Mega Man's comic-con title?

http://newgame1.bngames.net/

 

[Oddyesy]

Huh. I stand corrected.

 

[Kamikazek]

Interesting......it looks like a crossover.....two franchises currently having an anniversary.....Mega Man's comic-con title?

http://newgame1.bngames.net/

Bottom one says Famicom 30th anniversary.

Top one says V Jump 20th anniversary. I'm pretty sure V Jump is a manga magazine.

So I'd guess either a Jump Super Star esque manga crossover or a NintendoXManga crossover game.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Bottom one says Famicom 30th anniversary.

Top one says V Jump 20th anniversary. I'm pretty sure V Jump is a manga magazine.

So I'd guess either a Jump Super Star esque manga crossover or a NintendoXManga crossover game.

inb4 Pac-Man X Obscure Shonen Jump Food manga that came before Toriko

Seriously though.....i'm really curious right now.

 

[Kamikazek]

According to Wikipedia V Jump is a (at least somewhat) video game themed manga magazine owened by Shueisha(the same guys who own Shonen Jump, unsurprisingly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_Jump

 

[Wario Bros.]

.. You guys know that EarthBound is on the Wii U eShop for North America & Europe RIGHT NOW, right?

 

[LaniusShrike]

I actually could see a scenario where Sheik comes back to Zelda, at least someone named Sheik.

Keep in mind that Zelda was trying to be in disguise and so she assumed the "Sheik" persona.
However, "Sheik of the Sheikah" is basically as bad as a white girl putting on a sombrero and calling herself "Mexico of the Mexicans".
Unless, Sheik is an actual Sheikah name, perhaps the name of the founder of the Sheikah tribe, that being where the Shadow Clan got its name.

So, I think it's possible that we'll see someone very similar in design to Sheik with the name Sheik in a Zelda game that takes place rather early in the timeline that follows the founding of Hyrule and those who protect the divine royal bloodline.

 

[Reznor]

.. You guys know that EarthBound is on the Wii U eShop for North America & Europe RIGHT NOW, right?

I don't have a Wii U why don't they put it on the Wii eShop

 

[Wario Bros.]

A funny thing about EarthBound is that for the Wii U it's given an ESRB rating of T for Teen (the original SNES game gave it a K-A, the old name for E for Everyone).

 

[Diddy Kong]

Impa debates are at least more lively and interessting than Fire Emblem debates.

Speaking of, we can combine the two if we'd like?

I mean, Impa could totally fit into the Fire Emblem Universe. She could be a Trickster, or a Mage Fighter. Or a FE9 Sage, with Knives, like Callil. Or be a totally different class alltogheter, something in the likes of a Whisperer (Sothe, FE:RD) , Rogue (FE8), Assassin and Sage.

She could be the Seth / Titania- like character, but in Sage form. Protecting Zelda from harm. She seems like the ideal Zelda 'Jeigan'-like character. But like Seth and Titania, able to kick serious ass. Or to nerf her a little, give her good Speed and Skill bases, but low Strenght and Magic, but higher growths in Strenght and Magic.

So, list of Zelda characters in Fire Emblem classes:

Link - Hero (like Ike, placeholder for Lord title). Uses Swords before promotion, and Swords and Bows after promotion. Also has a Hammer-like weapon after promotion, but doesn't use other Axes. Like Celice in FE4, he can mount and unmount. This doesn't change his stats outside movement however.
Zelda - Princess (placeholder Lord title name). Uses Magic before promotion. And Bows and Staffs after promotion. Can use Light Magic and Anima Magic.
Impa - Sage (explained above, could be a new class to). Magic and Knives before promotion, additional Swords and Staffs after promotion.
Ganondorf - Dark Lord (unique class of coarse). Can use Swords, Lances, Axes and Dark Magic.
Tingle - Dancer (can promote however)

Other universes we can turn into Fire Emblem fashion?

 

[Mr. OC]

A funny thing about EarthBound is that for the Wii U it's given an ESRB rating of T for Teen (the original SNES game gave it a K-A, the old name for E for Everyone).

Just proves ESRB ratings are inaccurate as hell.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Seems I appeared at a wrong time based on the topic?

 

[Kamikazek]

Impa debates are at least more lively and interessting than Fire Emblem debates.

Speaking of, we can combine the two if we'd like?

I mean, Impa could totally fit into the Fire Emblem Universe. She could be a Trickster, or a Mage Fighter. Or a FE9 Sage, with Knives, like Callil. Or be a totally different class alltogheter, something in the likes of a Whisperer (Sothe, FE:RD) , Rogue (FE8), Assassin and Sage.

She could be the Seth / Titania- like character, but in Sage form. Protecting Zelda from harm. She seems like the ideal Zelda 'Jeigan'-like character. But like Seth and Titania, able to kick serious ***. Or to nerf her a little, give her good Speed and Skill bases, but low Strenght and Magic, but higher growths in Strenght and Magic.

So, list of Zelda characters in Fire Emblem classes:

Link - Hero (like Ike, placeholder for Lord title). Uses Swords before promotion, and Swords and Bows after promotion. Also has a Hammer-like weapon after promotion, but doesn't use other Axes. Like Celice in FE4, he can mount and unmount. This doesn't change his stats outside movement however.
Zelda - Princess (placeholder Lord title name). Uses Magic before promotion. And Bows and Staffs after promotion. Can use Light Magic and Anima Magic.
Impa - Sage (explained above, could be a new class to). Magic and Knives before promotion, additional Swords and Staffs after promotion.
Ganondorf - Dark Lord (unique class of coarse). Can use Swords, Lances, Axes and Dark Magic.
Tingle - Dancer (can promote however)

Other universes we can turn into Fire Emblem fashion?

You forgot to say what Sheik would be. ^_^

 

[Big-Cat]

Not to mention the changes in values along with more attention to subtle humor.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Impa debates are at least more lively and interessting than Fire Emblem debates.

Because ****ting on each other is more interesting then vomiting on each other?

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Zelda's Down B can be anything. What about her holding down opponents like she held Ganon for Link in OOT? How about a lightning ball attack as in TP? How about that Triforce light magic attack from TP? Something with the Harp from SS? A healing attack with a Fairy? Anything goes.

I'd like to see her use that attack with the glowing Triforce on the ground and have light shooting from it.
But I don't think it's worth removing Sheik or making her a separate character.

On the surface, making the two of them separate fighters and giving them their own down+B moves is cool, but it would seem weird to me. Shiek is the alter-ego of Zelda (OOT Zelda), so the two are meant to be part of the same character.

I actually could see a scenario where Sheik comes back to Zelda, at least someone named Sheik.

Keep in mind that Zelda was trying to be in disguise and so she assumed the "Sheik" persona.
However, "Sheik of the Sheikah" is basically as bad as a White girl putting on a sombrero and calling herself "Mexico of the Mexicans".
Unless, Sheik is an actual Sheikah name, perhaps the name of the founder of the Sheikah tribe, that being where the Shadow Clan got its name.

So, I think it's possible that we'll see someone very similar in design to Sheik with the name Sheik in a Zelda game that takes place rather early in the timeline that follows the founding of Hyrule and those who protect the divine royal bloodline.

The "Mexico of the Mexicans" part gave me a pretty good laugh.

Um, so what you're saying in the last part is that you think the Shiekah will be named after someone named Shiek, like how the land of Hyrule was named after the goddess Hylia?

---

 

[Diddy Kong]

You forgot to say what Sheik would be. ^_^

... A Bard.

Possibly the same class as Impa in all seriousness though. If Zelda can use magic, so could Sheik. Probably. Unless she goes all Volke on us, holding back and all that jazz.

 

[Mr. OC]

Not to mention the changes in values along with more attention to subtle humor.

I'll assume that's in reply to my statement and also add that the standards in difficulty have also changed.

 

[Frostwraith]

>Diddy Kong posts Impa stuff
>Argument ensues

Why am I not one bit surprised?

Also, Fire Emblem: Awakening is one of the best games I've ever played.

 

[Diddy Kong]

It all started as a joke.

 

[Mr. OC]

It all started as a joke.

You forget nobody here has a sense of humor