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Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

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Johnknight1

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Dude, Snake's leg goes beyond a 90 degree angle without him bending his other leg or the rest of his body. That is physically impossible without being a super skinny gymnast (Snake looks like he weighs about 200 pounds) or lacking joints (which Snake clearly has).

The highest I was able to kick up to was maybe a 85 degree angle without bending, and that was when I was like 5'6, 120 pounds, and 15 years old. There's no way a grown man can be more flexible than that. Just no way. (Kuma, by the way, I do keep up my flexibility, but aging prevents you from being that flexible because bones merge together).
 

Big-Cat

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IDK, there have been times where I've been able to kick almost right in front of my face recently and I'm 5'10, 190 at 21. I haven't seen Snake's UTilt in a while so it may indeed be impossible. I'm surprised no one comments on how freakishly hard it is to do Fox's Utilt.
 

---

鉄腕
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Lol at this discussion.

Good thing it's just a game. I'm surprised no one has mentioned how Wario can unhinge his jaw for his N-Special. lol
 

Big-Cat

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Yeah, but most people would dismiss that as Wario being so cartoony in contrast to Snake.
 

Disfunkshunal

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@kuma
I knew all that :laugh:, I like to think of myself as an educated noob =]. What I was saying though is that something is either disjointed or not there is no way to be more or less disjointed. Toon link's sword is as disjointed as marth's sword because they both have seperate hit/hurtboxes from the characters' bodies.

:phone:
 

Johnknight1

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@ Kuma
Have you ever been able to kick STRAIGHT UP without swinging your foot to the side=??? Go out to a park (or really any very ope area) and try it right now. Unless you are a secret Olympic gymnast, you will look like a fool. Heck, I tried it now and I feel like I pulled my leg (dang tubing leg cramps!).

@ Triple Dash
The different is Wario is a super cartoony character, and Snake is pretty realistic. Well, except for the size of his bootie! :chuckle:
 

lordvaati

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Aren't MadCatz controllers sub-par quality?

I know that's true for GC, haven't seen or played with one in like 8 years though.
Madcatz is decent. it's Gamestop controllers that are abominations(why the hell doesn't the Z button work in Smash on those things??).

as for the button layout, i like it, because it resembes the SNES layout, which translates well for other fighting games on Wii-U. you know the reason why we had like 6 fighting games on GC? button layout. you know the reason why we had like 50 fighting games on SNES? Street Fighter II button layout. besides, I always wondered how an SNES controller worked for Smash.
 

smashmanx7

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Good point. But what I'm trying to understand is what's the point in buying the 3dsversion if I'm just going to unlock those characters later sorta just eliminates the purpose. There has to be some compelling factor to make me say "hey I should buy this because they have special stages that work with eye popping 3d " there needs to be some incentive into buy this version over another let that be stages,characters or modes

As for balancing I'm sure they'll be able to figure it out
@disfunkshunal this is what meant but thanks for clarifying
 

Johnknight1

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The incentive for people to buy Smash WiiU and Smash 3DS would be:
1. Give them different titles.
2. Different gameplay (as in like, how Melee and Smash 64 are totally different, only with the same rosters and stages [or almost the same]).
3. Different bonus content.
4. Different single-player stuff (like Event Matches, story/adventure mode, break the targets, etc).

Side note: Would anybody else like to see "Race to the Finish" become a Stadium mode=???

Lastly, would anybody else like to see "Board the Platforms" return=??? :bee:
 

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You're assuming that the two games will be identical. This is smash bros 4 wii u and smash bros 4 3DS not like arkham city on the ps3 and 360 which are the same game on different systems. The incentive to buy the 3DS version is going to be a more single player experience while the wii u will be more multiplayer. I think exclusives will come more in the form of modes/options than characters.:phone:
Don't count out Nintendo's ability to do any cheap trick to print money.
 

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except forthe Mario anniversary collection.

that was pretty meh. otherwise I pretty much agree.
 

Conviction

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@ Kuma
Have you ever been able to kick STRAIGHT UP without swinging your foot to the side=??? Go out to a park (or really any very ope area) and try it right now. Unless you are a secret Olympic gymnast, you will look like a fool. Heck, I tried it now and I feel like I pulled my leg (dang tubing leg cramps!).
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL, make a video please

IDK, there have been times where I've been able to kick almost right in front of my face recently and I'm 5'10, 190 at 21. I haven't seen Snake's UTilt in a while so it may indeed be impossible. I'm surprised no one comments on how freakishly hard it is to do Fox's Utilt.
Melee or Brawl?

Melee's is hard to do, Brawl's not so much.



Nintendo is above cheapness.
What planet do you live on?
 

Zzuxon

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Exclusive characters and stages are the only way most people will buy most games. The only differences you people are suggesting are very subtle gameplay differences, like slight differences in Directional Input, and also different Trophies. Only a very few people would buy 2 games based on such minor changes, especially considering the 3ds version won't be able to have anywhere near as much content as the Wii U version.
If Nintendo wants me to get both versions, I'm going to need at least 10 version exclusives, as well as several stages, and the ability to transfer data.
 

Disfunkshunal

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@above
Why should anyone have to deal out $100 for a full game in a market where all other games are $40-$60.

Nintendo is a lot less cheap than other companies give them SOME credit.

@smashman
I missed that post O_o. Anyway atleast we're on the same page now.

:phone:
 

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Zzuxon

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@above
Why should anyone have to deal out $100 for a full game in a market where all other games are $40-$60.

Nintendo is a lot less cheap than other companies give them SOME credit.

:phone:
Nintendo always releases 2 PKMN games at the same time. Each game has PKMN you can't obtain in the other. Does this make both games Incomplete husks, incapable of being played without both? No, they are both complete, self-sufficient games, but if you have both, you get bonus stuff. What I'm proposing is the same thing. If this isn't done, Nintendo will lose a lot of money and probably never make a smash game again.
 

Oasis_S

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If this isn't done, Nintendo will lose a lot of money and probably never make a smash game again.
Dumbdumbdumbdumb.

I mean, this idea was already stomped out last summer. Why does it keep coming back up. The idea doesn't make sense, why people expect it doesn't make sense, and why people want it doesn't make sense.
 

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Yeah, IGN, keep on dreaming that a DBZ character has any kind of a chance of coming to Sm4sh.

But seriously, everyone is curious which Namco Bandai character will fill a slot so this was almost a useless article (that's just me).
Yeah, that article was a bit pointless and I personally don't want to have anime characters in Smash Bros.
 

Zzuxon

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Dumbdumbdumbdumb.

I mean, this idea was already stomped out last summer. Why does it keep coming back up. The idea doesn't make sense, why people expect it doesn't make sense, and why people want it doesn't make sense.
Did you read anything of the rest of my posts? I detail my logic specifically. If you wish, please respond to that, rather than shallowly accusing me of being dumb. I'd appreciate constructive criticism. But I can't respond to something like this.
 

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Disfunkshunal

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Nintendo always releases 2 PKMN games at the same time. Each game has PKMN you can't obtain in the other. Does this make both games Incomplete husks, incapable of being played without both? No, they are both complete, self-sufficient games, but if you have both, you get bonus stuff. What I'm proposing is the same thing. If this isn't done, Nintendo will lose a lot of money and probably never make a smash game again.
Kk assume for a second brawl was on wii and DS with a metaknight being a DS exclusive. Anyone with both versions would automatically be at an advabtage against anyone with only one because MK is much better than majority if the cast.

"But, but someone threw out an electabuzz and I didn't have one so it wasn't fair"
-individual characters aren't as important in pokemon.
"But, but that's a double standard."
-Ok, let's for a second say they're equally important, all you need is one game and an Internet connection to get all the Pokemon rather than buying 2 games like you're proposing.
"But, but no one will buy them if all the characters were the same"
-Wanna put money on that?

And at that last line, I feel this needs to be repeated:
Dumbdumbdumbdumb.
John you're just mad because that's too much woman for you to handle =P
:phone:
 

Johnknight1

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@ N3ON
That IGN picture made Samus look freaking ugly. C'mon man, let's make 'em look natural. No one likes the Kardashians!:mad:
(stay away from the Golden State Warriors Lamar!!!)
:mad:
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL, make a video please
I'll post it when you post a video of yourself dancing the Dougie with Mike Tyson. ;)
@John
*Raises Hand*
Good. Because Board the Platforms returning and Race to the Finish being a Stadium Mode (and being able to make challenges for both) would kick so much SMASH!!!! :awesome:
Did you read anything of the rest of my posts? I detail my logic specifically. If you wish, please respond to that, rather than shallowly accusing me of being dumb. I'd appreciate constructive criticism. But I can't respond to something like this.
Your logic is from the Pokémon Company, not Masahiro Sakurai. Plus, again, roster and stages aren't everything. If you think they are, you probably haven't played more than 1 smash game. Just make the 2 games completely different in terms of gameplay (say, one like Smash 64, and another like Melee). That would make both games worth it. That and releasing the 2 new smash games at different times would create hype. Also, simple re-releases is not something Sakurai likes. At all. That's why he left Nintendo 8 years ago! :chuckle:
 

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Kk assume for a second brawl was on wii and DS with a metaknight being a DS exclusive. Anyone with both versions would automatically be at an advabtage against anyone with only one because MK is much better than majority if the cast. That is a balancing issue, it is irrelevant to the issue at hand. Ideally the game is balanced.

"But, but someone threw out an electabuzz and I didn't have one so it wasn't fair"
-individual characters aren't as important in pokemon.
"But, but that's a double standard."
-Ok, let's for a second say they're equally important, all you need is one game and an Internet connection to get all the Pokemon rather than buying 2 games like you're proposing. 2 friends. 1 friend has the 3ds version. Blam, same thing.
"But, but no one will buy them if all the characters were the same"
-Wanna put money on that? Give me one good reason why anyone would.

:phone:
My respones in bold.
 

Oasis_S

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OKAY, for one Pokemon and Smash are different. A fighting game is nothing without its characters. You can have all the neat and intricate mechanics and systems you want, but without a varied cast of characters to make use of them in different ways, it means nothing. So yes, having a fighting game is incomplete when some of its cast are excluded.

The whole idea only came about because one (very pessimistic, I might add) guy thought the 3DS JUST COULDN'T POSSIBLY have a large roster of characters. He was also convinced the 3DS version was going to do terribly because I mean it's on the 3DS y'know. Awful. So "not enough space" and "more sales," the one I'm guessing you subscribe to, are the two primary reasons people expect exclusive rosters.

So Smash 3DS needs a separate cast to make sales, huh? Why? Does a SMASH game really have to worry about sales? Is freaking Starfy or Isaac going to add sales to it? The only CHARACTERS that could drive sales are like, the original starting eight? No one's going to buy another Smash game just to play as MUDDY MOLE or something.

People also think these characters would be transferable, not understanding what that entails. For the characters to be transferable, that would require ALL THEIR COMPLETE CHARACTER DATA on BOTH VERSIONS. So that kind of destroys the "not enough space" argument itself. So basically, transferring characters only acts as a "key" to unlock already existing characters. Sakurai, for one, probably wouldn't believe in this kind of marketing scheme. I couldn't point to any sources, but he seems like a man that likes to make a game as complete as can be the first time around. Nintendo also apparently seems to have learned that people hate DLC that works like that. They say over and over again that DLC will be additional content that's worth the money. That is not QUITE the same as this situation, but it shows they would probably disapprove of it as well.

Let's see, what else. It only increases the amount of work load for less gain. They would have to work even harder to create all those extra characters that don't appear on each version. I can't really form this other idea into a sentence very well... BUT LIKE. Sakurai isn't going to sit there and consider which characters would be better on one version over the other. He's going to consider what characters are GOOD. Characters that ADD something to the game are best for both versions. A lot of people see exclusive rosters as a way to include more characters as a way to avoid saying "Toad should get in over Bowser Jr." or something. But if Junior isn't worth then he just plain shouldn't be in Smash. That accommodation bull**** is for the WEAK.

Also, stop saying "Nintendo will do it just to make money." It's a bad decision because it will make a lot of players feel cheated out. If they can't play as one character on one version because it's in the other version, that's going to cause a lot of BUTTHURT. This also doesn't effect Pokemon, because it's so easy to trade and stuff now. That's also kind of one of the founding pillars of Pokemon. BUT ANYWAY THE POINT IS, that kind of DISSATISFACTION is what would cause Nintendo to lose money.
 

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@ N3ON


Your logic is from the Pokémon Company, not Masahiro Sakurai. Plus, again, roster and stages aren't everything. If you think they are, you probably haven't played more than 1 smash game. Just make the 2 games completely different in terms of gameplay (say, one like Smash 64, and another like Melee). That would make both games worth it. That and releasing the 2 new smash games at different times would create hype. Also, simple re-releases is not something Sakurai likes. At all. That's why he left Nintendo 8 years ago! :chuckle:
Roster and stages are all that matter for the casual crowd, which is the vast majority of smash fans, like it or not.
I own all 3 smash games and love them. And, I acknowledge that Brawl is a bit slower, melee is a bit faster, and 64 has strange amounts of hitstun. But, If they were all released simultaneously, I would only buy Brawl. The differences in mechanics would not make melee worth an extra $50 for me, or for the majority of people.
 

Disfunkshunal

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No game is balanced- idealistic =\= releastic. you have to take into consideration human error. Plus also think about tournament goers, how can you practice against a character you don't have access too?

I'm sure everyone who has the wii u version will have a friend with a 3DS and vice versa. Again while this is ideal it's not realistic.

Because it's smash.

:phone:
 

Holder of the Heel

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OKAY, for one Pokemon and Smash are different. A fighting game is nothing without its characters. You can have all the neat and intricate mechanics and systems you want, but without a varied cast of characters to make use of them in different ways, it means nothing. So yes, having a fighting game is incomplete when some of its cast are excluded.

The whole idea only came about because one (very pessimistic, I might add) guy thought the 3DS JUST COULDN'T POSSIBLY have a large roster of characters. He was also convinced the 3DS version was going to do terribly because I mean it's on the 3DS y'know. Awful. So "not enough space" and "more sales," the one I'm guessing you subscribe to, are the two primary reasons people expect exclusive rosters.

So Smash 3DS needs a separate cast to make sales, huh? Why? Does a SMASH game really have to worry about sales? Is freaking Starfy or Isaac going to add sales to it? The only CHARACTERS that could drive sales are like, the original starting eight? No one's going to buy another Smash game just to play as MUDDY MOLE or something.

People also think these characters would be transferable, not understanding what that entails. For the characters to be transferable, that would require ALL THEIR COMPLETE CHARACTER DATA on BOTH VERSIONS. So that kind of destroys the "not enough space" argument itself. So basically, transferring characters only acts as a "key" to unlock already existing characters. Sakurai, for one, probably wouldn't believe in this kind of marketing scheme. I couldn't point to any sources, but he seems like a man that likes to make a game as complete as can be the first time around. Nintendo also apparently seems to have learned that people hate DLC that works like that. They say over and over again that DLC will be additional content that's worth the money. That is not QUITE the same as this situation, but it shows they would probably disapprove of it as well.

Let's see, what else. It only increases the amount of work load for less gain. They would have to work even harder to create all those extra characters that don't appear on each version. I can't really form this other idea into a sentence very well... BUT LIKE. Sakurai isn't going to sit there and consider which characters would be better on one version over the other. He's going to consider what characters are GOOD. Characters that ADD something to the game are best for both versions. A lot of people see exclusive rosters as a way to include more characters as a way to avoid saying "Toad should get in over Bowser Jr." or something. But if Junior isn't worth then he just plain shouldn't be in Smash. That accommodation bull**** is for the WEAK.

Also, stop saying "Nintendo will do it just to make money." It's a bad decision because it will make a lot of players feel cheated out. If they can't play as one character on one version because it's in the other version, that's going to cause a lot of BUTTHURT. This also doesn't effect Pokemon, because it's so easy to trade and stuff now. That's also kind of one of the founding pillars of Pokemon. BUT ANYWAY THE POINT IS, that kind of DISSATISFACTION is what would cause Nintendo to lose money.
Are you smart.


And yeah, Sakurai heavily suggested connectivity between the two systems, he isn't going to turn around and make a rift between the two games. You don't even have to go out and make a large post like this. The reasons for getting both is that they add to the overall experience of the other.

That, and its freaking Smash Bros., I'm GOING to get both versions. And even those who aren't hardcore into Smash, they can get the one that fits their tastes/conveniences. SSB4 is going to sell like hotcakes even more because of these factors.
 

Johnknight1

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Roster and stages are all that matter for the casual crowd, which is the vast majority of smash fans, like it or not.
What people play smash for is the gameplay. That is the main reason people come back to each smash game. Each of them are unique, each are entertaining, and that is why ultimately new smash bros. games will always sell. That and smash is unique. That's what separates smash from similar one-hit garbage games like Play-Station All Stars! :chuckle:
I own all 3 smash games and love them. And, I acknowledge that Brawl is a bit slower, melee is a bit faster, and 64 has strange amounts of hitstun. But, If they were all released simultaneously, I would only buy Brawl. The differences in mechanics would not make melee worth an extra $50 for me, or for the majority of people.
If you were to only buy Brawl WiiU, your friend would show you Melee 3DS and how awesome it is. It would make you envious, which would make you buy it. :awesome:
 

Oasis_S

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Are you smart.


And yeah, Sakurai heavily suggested connectivity between the two systems, he isn't going to turn around and make a rift between the two games. You don't even have to go out and make a large post like this. The reasons for getting both is that they add to the overall experience of the other.

That, and its freaking Smash Bros., I'm GOING to get both versions. And even those who aren't hardcore into Smash, they can get the one that fits their tastes/conveniences. SSB4 is going to sell like hotcakes even more because of these factors.
WELL YOU SEE, concise for me is "don't be dumb." Because when I explain myself, I do THAT. And when I do that, the chance for the dumb to listen is low because they'll get defensive because of dumb. So just keeping it at "don't be dumb" saves a lot of time.

I think you explained it much more... poetically. Connection, not rift.
 

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OKAY, for one Pokemon and Smash are different. A fighting game is nothing without its characters. You can have all the neat and intricate mechanics and systems you want, but without a varied cast of characters to make use of them in different ways, it means nothing. So yes, having a fighting game is incomplete when some of its cast are excluded. It's not exclusion. They are merely different games.
Unless of course, the 3ds version has no exclusive content. Then it would be exclusion.


The whole idea only came about because one (very pessimistic, I might add) guy thought the 3DS JUST COULDN'T POSSIBLY have a large roster of characters. He was also convinced the 3DS version was going to do terribly because I mean it's on the 3DS y'know. Awful. So "not enough space" and "more sales," the one I'm guessing you subscribe to, are the two primary reasons people expect exclusive rosters.

So Smash 3DS needs a separate cast to make sales, huh? Why? Does a SMASH game really have to worry about sales? Is freaking Starfy or Isaac going to add sales to it? The only CHARACTERS that could drive sales are like, the original starting eight? No one's going to buy another Smash game just to play as MUDDY MOLE or something. What do you think having no reason to buy the 3ds version will do to sales?

People also think these characters would be transferable, not understanding what that entails. For the characters to be transferable, that would require ALL THEIR COMPLETE CHARACTER DATA on BOTH VERSIONS. So that kind of destroys the "not enough space" argument itself. So basically, transferring characters only acts as a "key" to unlock already existing characters. Sakurai, for one, probably wouldn't believe in this kind of marketing scheme. I couldn't point to any sources, but he seems like a man that likes to make a game as complete as can be the first time around. Nintendo also apparently seems to have learned that people hate DLC that works like that. They say over and over again that DLC will be additional content that's worth the money. That is not QUITE the same as this situation, but it shows they would probably disapprove of it as well.Additional characters and stages woudn't be worth the money? maybe if they were $10 each, but Nintendo wouldn't do that, for exactly the reasons you detailed. They'd likely charge, $1 or $2 Besides, If you had the 3ds version, downloading the exclusives would be free. Keep in mind, what I'm suggesting is not on disc. It is a download. Plus, the DLC could increase Replay value, when Nintendo releases even more content after the games released. Off disc DLC on the 3ds has already happened in the Mario kart 7 online patch. It's confirmed for 2 future 3ds games. And there is a problem if the Wii U can't do most of the processing type stuff the 3ds can.

Let's see, what else. It only increases the amount of work load for less gain. They would have to work even harder to create all those extra characters that don't appear on each version. I can't really form this other idea into a sentence very well... BUT LIKE. Sakurai isn't going to sit there and consider which characters would be better on one version over the other. He's going to consider what characters are GOOD. Characters that ADD something to the game are best for both versions. A lot of people see exclusive rosters as a way to include more characters as a way to avoid saying "Toad should get in over Bowser Jr." or something. But if Junior isn't worth then he just plain shouldn't be in Smash. That accommodation bull**** is for the WEAK. I don't follow what you're trying to say here.

Also, stop saying "Nintendo will do it just to make money." It's a bad decision because it will make a lot of players feel cheated out. If they can't play as one character on one version because it's in the other version, that's going to cause a lot of BUTTHURT. This also doesn't effect Pokemon, because it's so easy to trade and stuff now. That's also kind of one of the founding pillars of Pokemon. BUT ANYWAY THE POINT IS, that kind of DISSATISFACTION is what would cause Nintendo to lose money. It is the only way they really could make money. They wouldn't be being greedy, they would be being good businessmen. It would be an unfortunate necessity.
I appreciate you're feedback. there are some problems with my position, I know. But there are prolems with everything. My replies in bold.
 

Oasis_S

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What you need to understand is that Smash 3DS and Smash Wii U are not the same game. The 3DS version will be tailored to an experience appropriate for a handheld. The cast can be, and will be, the same and you will still gain a different experience.

The reason to buy the 3DS version should not be because it has different characters. It can only be because you want to enjoy playing Smash on a handheld. Sakurai understands there is a difference in what players will want out of that, whether or not they know it, and he is going to deliver appropriately.
 

Zzuxon

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And yeah, Sakurai heavily suggested connectivity between the two systems, he isn't going to turn around and make a rift between the two games. You don't even have to go out and make a large post like this. The reasons for getting both is that they add to the overall experience of the other. This is what exclusive content would do.

That, and its freaking Smash Bros., I'm GOING to get both versions. And even those who aren't hardcore into Smash, they can get the one that fits their tastes/conveniences. SSB4 is going to sell like hotcakes even more because of these factors.If you're going to get both versions anywayy, why not get specil stuff out of it.
My replies in bold.

What you need to understand is that Smash 3DS and Smash Wii U are not the same game. The 3DS version will be tailored to an experience appropriate for a handheld. The cast can be, and will be, the same and you will still gain a different experience.

The reason to buy the 3DS version should not be because it has different characters. It can only be because you want to enjoy playing Smash on a handheld. Sakurai understands there is a difference in what players will want out of that, whether or not they know it, and he is going to deliver appropriately. Smash on a handheld would be just the same as smash on a console, other than that it's portable. Or at least, i can't think of any way it would be different.
Unless of course, it had version exclusive content.
Again replies in bold.
 
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