Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[~automatic]

How d'y'all feel about this here crossover?

Ah' thinks it's mighty nice.

 

[Starphoenix]

How d'y'all feel about this here crossover?

Ah' thinks it's mighty nice.

Capcom, a leading worldwide developer and publisher of video games, recently shared plans to release a new fan-made crossover title featuring two of the company's most iconic franchises. Street Fighter® X Mega Man® will celebrate the closing ceremonies of the 25th Anniversary of Street Fighter® and kick off the festivities taking place in 2013, when Mega Man takes center stage as "The Blue Bomber" reflects on his own 25 years of gaming greatness. The Street Fighter X Mega Man game will be released as a PC download beginning on December 17, 2012 and will be offered to fans for FREE through Capcom's official website, Capcom-Unity.com

So, Capcom is so inept at creating Megaman games, they've resorted to publishing fan games. If Megaman X: Corrupted doesn't get the official Capcom stamp of approval, then something is wrong with this world.

 

[Frostwraith]

So, Capcom is so inept at creating Megaman games, they've resorted to publishing fan games. If Megaman X: Corrupted doesn't get the official Capcom stamp of approval, then something is wrong with this world.

to quote a post I made in the Megaman support thread...

Doesn't let Keiji Inafune, one of the designers of the series, help on MML3's development from his own company, yet supports a fan work.

Nice logic there, Capcom.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Capcom wanted to keep budgets to a minimum so they'll have enough money to release Super Ultra Hyper Turbo Street Fighter 4: Alpha Championship edition.

 

[Frostwraith]

Capcom wanted to keep budgets to a minimum so they'll have enough money to release Super Ultra Hyper Turbo Street Fighter 4: Alpha Championship edition.

yup, just like that!

 

[Baskerville]

And the Capcom Community will still buy it and get ****ed over. Dunno whether to call it loyalty or stupidity.

 

[Big-Cat]

Capcom fans have something like Tsundere complex with Capcom.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Capcom fans have something like Tsundere complex with Capcom.

"Stupid Crapcom and your shoveling out! You w-wouldn't know anything about g-good games! I just s-support you because I l-like you guys to make Viewtiful Joe again! That is all, nothing more!"

 

[Deleted member]

Capcom wanted to keep budgets to a minimum so they'll have enough money to release Super Ultra Hyper Turbo Street Fighter 4: Alpha Championship Edition Featuring Wreck-It Ralph.

Fixed for accuracy.

 

[Big-Cat]

"Stupid Crapcom and your shoveling out! You w-wouldn't know anything about g-good games! I just s-support you because I l-like you guys to make Viewtiful Joe again! That is all, nothing more!"

Perfect.

And for all the jokes surrounding SF4 updates, I highly doubt they consume anywhere near as much of a budget as making a game from the ground up.

 

[Hoots]

And the Capcom Community will still buy it and get ****ed over. Dunno whether to call it loyalty or stupidity.

You hit the nail on the head, right there. It's the Capcom fans that are the problem. Regardless of all the terrible decisions the company makes, the Capcom fanboys will still flock to buy the latest rehashed money grab, thus eliminating market principles from the company's strategy. They can essentially do whatever they want with minimal consequences.

This, compacted with Japan's toxic corporate culture leads to stagnation that reflects their economy. Square-Enix falls into the same trap. The only way to bring about real change is to actually take a stand and NOT buy Capcom's lazy money grabs and only end your boycott when they start making games that their fans actually want.

Use the free market to your benefit (although irrational Japanese consumers will likely negate anything us Westerners can do). Oh well. I'm not a Capcom fan, so it's no skin off my back.

 

[Frostwraith]

You hit the nail on the head, right there. It's the Capcom fans that are the problem. Regardless of all the terrible decisions the company makes, the Capcom fanboys will still flock to buy the latest rehashed money grab, thus eliminating market principles from the company's strategy. They can essentially do whatever they want with minimal consequences.

This, compacted with Japan's toxic corporate culture leads to stagnation that reflects their economy. Square-Enix falls into the same trap. The only way to bring about real change is to actually take a stand and NOT buy Capcom's lazy money grabs and only end your boycott when they start making games that their fans actually want.

Use the free market to your benefit (although irrational Japanese consumers will likely negate anything us Westerners can do). Oh well. I'm not a Capcom fan, so it's no skin off my back.

Quoted For Truth

once the company learned that the fans would by any crap they shoved on them, they stopped caring. why waste resources when people are easily satisfied?

of course, that people that would like to have some quality games end up losing... oh well.

and I kind of agree that thare are many japanese people that completely disregard anything that isn't made in their country. why do you think that the Xbox sells so bad there?

fortunately, there've been some devs that criticize such behavior, like Hideo Kojima of MGS fame.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

To tell ya guys something, I think Mario-games nowadays are run under this what Capcom's doing nowadays with their fans. NSMB-series are biggest offenders: people still keep buying Mario because it's Mario. No quality needed, only quantity.

And that is before even speaking about recent spinoffs like Mario Tennis Open and MK7 (with neutered items and online and bit too deep stat researching behind the kart parts) and what else.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Mario sells, so naturally they'd promote Mario.

Though after the New Super Mario Bros. situation and the meddling with Paper Mario: Sticker Star, people are more stingy with the series as a whole lately.

 

[Frostwraith]

To tell ya guys something, I think Mario-games nowadays are run under this what Capcom's doing nowadays with their fans. NSMB-series are biggest offenders: people still keep buying Mario because it's Mario. No quality needed, only quantity.

And that is before even speaking about recent spinoffs like Mario Tennis Open and MK7 (with neutered items and online and bit too deep stat researching behind the kart parts) and what else.

can't argue with that!

Mario sells, so naturally they'd promote Mario.

Though after the New Super Mario Bros. situation, people are more stingy with the series as a whole lately.

NSMB2 was disappointing in my opinion. but you can't argue with the fact that both Galaxy games were masterpieces. but it's as you said, Mario simply sells because everyone likes Mario.

if not for Pokémon Black / White (and its sequels) having a deeper storyline and you could use this same argument for the series. so, I must praise GameFreak for attempting something different with Pokémon, but they still have a long way to go.

 

[Big-Cat]

and I kind of agree that thare are many japanese people that completely disregard anything that isn't made in their country. why do you think that the Xbox sells so bad there?

fortunately, there've been some devs that criticize such behavior, like Hideo Kojima of MGS fame.

The XBOX sells so bad in Japan most likely because of the types of games the Japanese like to play. Both XBOX consoles have historically been very supportive of FPS games, and that's not a very popular genre there. Of course, some developers have taken gambles on the 360, some with rather good success. The iDolM@ster series was originally an arcade music-idol-raising game until it was ported to the 360. The PS3 didn't get a single game in that series until iDolM@Ster 2 (and there were two games between the two games) and that was essentially an enhanced port.

To tell ya guys something, I think Mario-games nowadays are run under this what Capcom's doing nowadays with their fans. NSMB-series are biggest offenders: people still keep buying Mario because it's Mario. No quality needed, only quantity.

And that is before even speaking about recent spinoffs like Mario Tennis Open and MK7 (with neutered items and online and bit too deep stat researching behind the kart parts) and what else.

When even Mario has fallen into this, you know things have gone wrong.

Now, to be a bit fair on the developers, the international economy is bad. It's inherently risky to develop a big budget game for a brand new IP, but the economy makes those gambles even riskier while the reward is about the same. The safest thing would be to not change things so much without upsetting fans. Of course, the fans can be the best friend or the worst enemy for a developer depending on their views. I'm personally in the camp that a game should aim for higher quality as much as possible while still retaining some of its original charm where applicable, and that I view sequels as their own animals without too much comparison to its predecessors.

Spoiler

This is why I've advocated for Smash to take traditional FG mechanics. I don't want a carbon copy, I just want the optimal game and sometimes you have to sacrifice a little bit of "individuality" for that.

 

[Diddy Kong]

one reason not to buy KFC.

Cuccos for Sm4sh!

Angry Cucoos for Assist Trophy status!

And yeah, New Super Mario Bros. is getting old.

 

[Frostwraith]

Angry Cucoos for Assist Trophy status!

would be a nice AT especially if it was faithfully recreated, meaning you had to attack it to anger him and call the "revenge squad".

And yeah, New Super Mario Bros. is getting old.

oh, the irony lolz

 

[---]

With Mario honestly I think it's just a bit of bad timing releasing both sequels within months of each other. It's a good bet however we won't be seeing another 2D Mario platformer until the next Gen of consoles, over-saturation before the drought. The timing between at the games at least has been pretty good, NSMB (06), NSMBWii (09), NSMB2 (12), NSMBU (12). Three years to Capcom's 1 or 2 years (and in a few cases less than a year) isn't all that bad.

That said reusing the same graphics/music/presentation all the time is definitely stale.

 

[Diddy Kong]

It's not a bad timing, because if they released it even later than at launch, people would be more upset spending money on a game which plays exactly like a DS game, on a so called 'next generation home console'.

Spoiler

They'd make mad money on me if they'd give this privilidge to the DKC series by making tons of DKCR-games but noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo... *gladly keeps money*

 

[Big-Cat]

I'd love to see a 2D Mario with an orchestral score like Galaxy. To me, the use of an orchestra shows how far Mario has come. The same way for Zelda.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Don't know why they are so hot for making NSMB games if they made Super Mario 3D Land. If they just made a game like THAT on Wii U it'd be a lot more acceptable.

 

[Hoots]

It's not a bad timing, because if they released it even later than at launch, people would be more upset spending money on a game which plays exactly like a DS game, on a so called 'next generation home console'.

Spoiler

They'd make mad money on me if they'd give this privilidge to the DKC series by making tons of DKCR-games but noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo... *gladly keeps money*

Call me a DKC purist, but I don't really see the difference. DKCR was a reskinned Mario game that was so heavily gutted of everything that made DKC memorable that it ended up being a pretty good, but generic platformer with a few DK characters slapped on to sell copies. Either way, it doesn't get Nintendo any points.

Rehashed Mario games are incredibly safe. Japan's multi-decade recession and collectivist culture have bred a risk-averse business environment that causes all of these issues we complain about. However, Nintendo gets a little more credit than Capcom and Square-Enix because they DO try to innovate occasionally and people really do want to play Zelda, Mario, and Pokemon. The biggest flaw is the apparent abandonment of smaller franchises like Starfox and F-Zero.

At least we're getting a new Smash.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Only the look of the maps and 'hearts' where somehow Mario-related. Everything else felt like a Return of Donkey Kong Country, but not a full one yet. There was a lot missing and the original games where much better. Then again, Super Mario World is also better than current gen Mario platformers.

 

[Gamingboy]

Nintendo's franchises are in tiers.

The first tiers is made up of Mario, Pokemon, Zelda, Donkey Kong and Kirby (in roughly that order). They are always going to be having games made of them and basically every Nintendo system will have at least one game with them, although they might just be spin-offs or as part of party games (there isn't always a main-line DK game on every system, for example, but he almost always pops up in Mario Kart, etc.)

Then there's a tier made up of Metroid, Fire Emblem (at least in Japan) and Animal Crossing. They definitely aren't in the top tier- their game releases are far more spread out and don't sell nearly as well- but they definitely are above the realm of Star Fox and F-Zero. Pikmin is probably somewhere between this tier and the next tier- talk to me after Pikmin 3 comes out.

So then there's the tier of misfit franchises, the ones that are still well-known and have at times been higher up, but have been in a rut for awhile. Star Fox, F-Zero, the Famicom/Advance Wars series... stuff like that. They get a remake or reimagining now and then, but they more exist as brands than actual games.

Kid Icarus, Punch-Out, PilotWings, etc. are between the above tier and the final tier below. They show up every once and awhile, but...

And then there's the "dead" franchises: Mother is finished because it's creator says so, every Ice Climber game is basically a remake or port of the original and I can't even remember when the last Wave Race, 1080 or Custom Robo came out.

(I'd have to guess Smash would be either in the second tier or just above it)

 

[Diddy Kong]

Nothing is Mario-tier, Mario is a whole tier by himself. Then comes Pokemon. Zelda is still leagues above Donkey Kong in priority as well, even though sales say they should both be about on the same level.

 

[Gamingboy]

Nothing is Mario-tier, Mario is a whole tier by himself. Then comes Pokemon. Zelda is still leagues above Donkey Kong in priority as well, even though sales say they should both be about on the same level.

I kind of hinted at that when I said "in that order", but I see your point. It's more like:

MARIO TIER

POKEMON TIER

ZELDA TIER

DK-AND-KIRBY TIER: Close enough where they can share a tier, Kirby is higher in Japan, but DK is higher in the west, roughly.

PRETTY-GOOD TIER: Metroid, Fire Emblem, Animal Crossing, etc.

MISFIT TIER/TOO NOTABLE TO BE DEAD BUT NOT ACTIVE ENOUGH TO BE HIGHER TIER: Star Fox, F-Zero, Famicom/Advance Wars...

SEMI-DEAD TIER/SHOWS UP EVERY FEW GENERATIONS TIER: Kid Icarus, Punch-Out, Pilotwings, etc.

DEAD TIER: Mother (purposely ended sub-tier), Ice Climber, Custom Robo, Wave Race, 1080, etc.

LOST TIER (3rd party characters that were once super-connected to Nintendo but are not longer): Basically every Rareware franchise that didn't have the word "Kong" in it.


I'm thinking maybe there is a "casual tier" somewhere there too, but the problem is that casual games can vary so widely based. I mean, the "Wii _____" series is probably behind only Mario, Pokemon and maybe Zelda, but some of the other ones would be elsewhere.

 

[Big-Cat]

Guys, guys. Tires don exits.

 

[~automatic]

Guys, guys. Tires don exits.

You really are from 2007.

 

[Luco]

I totally agree with SMW being better than a lot of mario games today. Man I swear, that game had so many secret paths and passages... I loved it, still do, love it to bits. <3

 

[~automatic]

SMW is my favorite Mario game

Spoiler

after Galaxy

!

 

[Luco]

I liked Galaxy but found it far too easy for my taste until after you beat Bowser (if you want to be kind, I suppose those levels directly before him were... intermediate.). It also would have been nice to see more secrets in SMG... but I suppose that's just something I learnt to love from SMW.

 

[The Real Gamer]

I'll always be a SM64 guy since I grew up with that game.

But I can admit that Galaxy is definitely the better game overall. Both 1 and 2 were platforming masterpieces... And dat orchestral soundtrack.

 

[Gamingboy]

The thing about main series Mario though is that even the worst ones like Sunshine are immensely enjoyable.

 

[Frostwraith]

The thing about main series Mario though is that even the worst ones like Sunshine are immensely enjoyable.

true that. even the worst games of the series are enjoyable overall. they may not be as great as the others but are atill good, enjoyable games.

 

[---]

Personally I enjoyed Sunshine more than 64.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Personally I enjoyed Sunshine more than 64.

Same here. Sunshine is underrated.

 

[Frostwraith]

yep, Sunshine was good. people bash it for its different mechanics, but it was one of my favorite games of the GCN.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

My only gripe with Sunshine is the fake difficulty level design and camera issues (yes, the camera's quite a **** in this game. I need to adjust it more than necessary)

Otherwise it's a good game. Though I sometimes get bored with it's lack of distinctivity in levels.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

My only gripe with Sunshine is the fake difficulty level design and camera issues (yes, the camera's quite a **** in this game. I need to adjust it more than necessary)

f***ing mudboats!

Edit: Since we're kind of in a rut as far as news, and since this is kinda Smash related, I think it's worth discussing this.

Would any of you be interested in playing "Super Smash Kart"?