Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[PsychoIncarnate]

Fusion, one of the worst games? HA!

Well I haven't played the prime games, I don't know if the are any good.

But it's very linear. Something I dislike in a Metroid game

I don't think it's a bad game, I just don't think it stands up as much as Metroid 1,2, or super

 

[ChibiIceClimberz]

Your favorite games in the metroid series are two of the worst

Um, it's my opinion and I like them, and you can't change that. If you think they're one of the worst, then it's your opinion. Don't make it look like it's fact. :/

Well I haven't played the prime games, I don't know if the are any good.

But it's very linear. Something I dislike in a Metroid game

I don't think it's a bad game, I just don't think it stands up as much as Metroid 1,2, or super

You say you don't like linearity, yet the Prime series gameplay aren't even linear. The fact that you haven't played the Prime series doesn't mean you should judge it by how it looks and plays. If you don't like playing Samus in first-person, then oh well.

original costumes as in... made exclusively for SSB4? well, it wouldn't be a bad idea, but I prefer having costumes originating from other games.

Maybe make the exclusives different from the Wii U version with the 3DS version? I mean, both versions have to be slightly different, so yeah. c:

 

[SmashChu]

1) Even so, facing fears is not the same as removing them completely. It's only repressing them. And as that one Chozo said, "Repressed fear will grow inside you, even if you are unaware it exists". http://metroid-database.com/manga/?vid=13&cid=64#manga_top (Page 3)
And no, she doesn't kill Ridley. He obviously comes back for Metroid/Zero Mission with Super Metroid being his actual death. He even states in the manga that he has a revival mechanism where he eats the flesh of corpses.

2) It was introduced in Zero Mission's time. Which means the only games it could have been triggered is Zero Mission, Prime 2, Hunters, Prime 3, and Other M.
Zero Mission, we have the expression as you said, but as someone pointed out to me, it doesn't really seem much of a shocked expression. Also, at this point in the manga (which covers Zero Mission up to the final fight with Mother Brain), we see that Samus is more determined to kill Ridley than anything else, putting her fear aside until the job is done.
Prime 2 and Hunters doesn't even have Ridley, so point is moot.
In Prime, Meta Ridley wasn't "killed", he was repelled. Granted, he did fall without working wings, but he's survived worse. Him coming back would not be any sort of surprise, hence no PTSD in Prime 3 when he returns. Nor when he comes back as Omega Ridley later, due to him coming back through the power of Phazon, and by this time, Samus is well aware of what corruption powers Phazon has. At this point, it'd be hard to tell if it was really even Ridley in mentality fighting her at that point, or just some corrupted puppet of the Leviathan on the Pirate Homeworld.
Now, by Other M, Ridley is supposed to be dead for good. There's no possible way he could survive an exploding planet (at which he didn't to our knowledge). Samus could finally put her mind at ease in regards to him, knowing she would never have to see him again. And then BAM! SURPRISE! Here he is again without any warning! Cue repressed memories flowing back at full force.

3) It can, but in this case, Ridley is specifically the trigger. Note, that just because something CAN do something, doesn't mean it automatically DOES. For example, a war vet in Vietnam saw his comrades burned to death. Grilling on a barbecue reminds him of that and triggers his PTSD. While it's not strong enough to affect him too deeply (which the only thing that would probably do so is seeing people be burned to death again), he does mention that it feels different to barbecue ever since.
If Samus saw like, a creature that looks a bit like Ridley, or someone yelling out what Ridley said as he was trying to kill her (but instead killed her mother), it would probably trigger it as well, but it wouldn't be as strong as seeing Ridley himself after he's supposed to be deader than dead.

4) http://metroid-database.com/manga/?vid=13&cid=62#manga_top (Page 5) Translation directly states "symptoms of PTSD".

5) You do not understand how PTSD works. One does not "deal with it" or "recover". Once it's there, it's there to stay. Now, one can work with keeping it under control, which Samus has managed to do.
However, she relapsed (which can very well happen IRL) when Ridley, who's supposed to have been blown up on Zebes, is somehow back out of nowhere without any logical explanation, causing repressed memories that she thought she could put at rest to hit her like an 18-wheeler.

6) For the time being; as I've said, one never gets over it completely.

Again, the problem with the argument is STILL is that Other M is at the end of the timeline. This means she fought him 3 times already, 5 if you include Prime. It also being triggered by ONLY Ridley (which surprisingly, isn't how PTSD works only exasperating the awful writting) and not other Space Pirates is poor writting. Again, she is a bounty hunter, so she has to be emotionally strong . The fact that we are arguing whether or not they ****ed up in a source outside the script itself shows how bad everything is.

To your points
5 & 6) A quick google search proves these points wrong.
1)Facing fears is how you get over them. Rest of the point is irrelevant.
2)Point makes no sense because she fought him 5 times. If your trying to rationalize why it never happened in all the other games, then your point is already lost. You can't bend the rules. We call the BAD WRITTING. See where I'm going with this.
3)You proved my point.
4)I'll give you that one.

As a note, we are only talking about one point which is considered minor to the rest of the awful script. There is the fact that there are scenes that are worse and the entire script is poorly written.

you can never get completely over PTSD. but, I do agree that there are some inconsistencies in the story, but then again, Other M's story has already been subjected to many interpretations, so whether the story is good or not is really subjective.

No. It's just bad. There really isn't defending it because there are too many counter arguments to speak of. The video I posted is one example. Of course, no one will watch it, so I have to keep explaining it.

 

[Baskerville]

Other M isn't as bad as a lot of people say. It's just Average.

 

[Deleted member]

Yjust don't get it;
Ridley is supposed to be fully dead at this point, with no possible way to return. All the times he had his *** handed to him, he survived.
Unless you think being able to come back after a planetary explosion in which he's already heavily wounded by Samus, has no dead bodies to eat (assuming he DOES survive the initial explosion), has no Space Pirates to revive him, and no Phazon to absorb is believable.

The point is, her main source of fear is gone.
Then, he comes out of nowhere, with no possible logic. BAM! Repressed memories and fears come back full force.

As to your sources, I love how all you did was search for pretty much how to cure PTSD, looked at sources that say "treatment" and call it a day. You didn't even read them. It's all about coping with it and being able to keep it under control.
And even then, have you even seen the methods of treatment? Do you honestly think Samus does therapy? Obviously not, as she's "supposed to be tough for she is a bounty hunter".

And there is no bending the rules involved.
PTSD can't appear in games before the PTSD was introduced, nor can it appear in games Ridley is not in when Ridley is clearly the trigger.
As for "but Ridley is in Prime 3 and she didn't PTSD there", why is it so hard for you to grasp that she pretty much KNEW Ridley was still out there as compared to Other M, where for all she knew, Ridley was dead and she could put the fear to rest?

And no, not being tiggered by the Pirates is not poor writing.
THIS is what she remembers. http://metroid-database.com/manga/?vid=19&cid=55#manga_top (Page 25)
The Pirates didn't do this; Ridley did. Why would the Pirates cause a trigger? Because they are associated with Ridley and the attack as a whole?

She never loses the fear; only utilizes it into anger in a method to destroy the fear.
Note how when Ridley first appears, it freaks her out, but once Anthony is "killed" by him, her hatred overides the fear. Similar to the manga; the death of Gray Voice had overiden the fear she had in that the next time she saw Ridley, she was ready to kill him.

And I honestly don't give a crap about the rest of the story's flaws, as I don't really give a crap about the game itself. The only thing I'm concerned about is people's misconceptions of the Ridley scene.

 

[Starphoenix]

The stuff you people choose to bicker over... I swear.

Anyways, Shorts made a new SSB4 poll, so for anyone interested, take a look. Looks like it's IP locked, which is good.

 

[FlareHabanero]

So, uhh...

Is there a summit button, or is that poll closed?

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

No Starfy makes me a sad man. (-l´l-); Also what Habanero said (ninja'd me)

 

[FlareHabanero]

No Starfy makes me a sad man.

At least we got the "fan favorite" characters Black Shadow, Ghiraham, and Krystal.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

They're more popular and none cares about Starfy because he's pathetic, obscure and doesn't have a moveset potential. Also he's mostly japan-only like Takamaru is.

And I'll cut my tongue if I have to say anymore...

 

[SmashChu]

Yjust don't get it;
Ridley is supposed to be fully dead at this point, with no possible way to return. All the times he had his *** handed to him, he survived.
Unless you think being able to come back after a planetary explosion in which he's already heavily wounded by Samus, has no dead bodies to eat (assuming he DOES survive the initial explosion), has no Space Pirates to revive him, and no Phazon to absorb is believable.

If he has a tendency of dying and coming back, then why would be surprised of him coming back a 5th time. She would have thought he's be dead the other times. Why now?

The point is, her main source of fear is gone.
Then, he comes out of nowhere, with no possible logic. BAM! Repressed memories and fears come back full force.

Except he's done that before. And she's fought him before. It's routine at this point.

As to your sources, I love how all you did was search for pretty much how to cure PTSD, looked at sources that say "treatment" and call it a day. You didn't even read them. It's all about coping with it and being able to keep it under control.

Actual quotes
Women and men around the world working on recovering from PTSD

YES! you can get rid of it. the trick is finding a psychologist that works in psychosomatic therapy. There are several programs out there.

I am a therapist. I practice yoga-breath therapy. In 1984 I was quickly healed of years of emotional problems with yoga breathing. It changed my life and I became a therapist.

Effective recovery work leads to an ongoing gradual reduction of emotional flashbacks.

(Note that all of these use the work "recover," not "treat")
Thank you for wasting my time by pulling these up. Next time, read the dang thing. Actual get your facts straight before you come barking up a tree.

And there is no bending the rules involved.
PTSD can't appear in games before the PTSD was introduced, nor can it appear in games Ridley is not in when Ridley is clearly the trigger.
As for "but Ridley is in Prime 3 and she didn't PTSD there", why is it so hard for you to grasp that she pretty much KNEW Ridley was still out there as compared to Other M, where for all she knew, Ridley was dead and she could put the fear to rest?

You can't retcon your game to explain bad story writting. Let's say, in the 7th Harry Potter book, his magic sickness is getting worse and is causing him problems. It isn't explained in the 7th book. But instead a side manga came out after book 5 that said that he caught magical sickness in the first book from the Sorcerer's Stone. Yeah, you technically explained it, but you did everything else wrong. Your trying to rework the old story because you messed up now. Same concept. Bad story telling.

And no, not being tiggered by the Pirates is not poor writing.
THIS is what she remembers. http://metroid-database.com/manga/?vid=19&cid=55#manga_top (Page 25)
The Pirates didn't do this; Ridley did. Why would the Pirates cause a trigger? Because they are associated with Ridley and the attack as a whole?

Same as your barbeque example. it was a space pirate raid where her parents died.

She never loses the fear; only utilizes it into anger in a method to destroy the fear.

Why didn't she just do it now. She did it all the other time, even when she though he was dead (see Opening to Metroid Prime)

And I honestly don't give a crap about the rest of the story's flaws, as I don't really give a crap about the game itself. The only thing I'm concerned about is people's misconceptions of the Ridley scene.

No, people get it. You don't. This is you talking as if you understand something you clearly don't.

 

[FlareHabanero]

They're more popular and none cares about Starfy because he's pathetic, obscure and doesn't have a moveset potential.

I blame the assist trophy for this misconception.

Though then again, I'm not complaining about that. I'm more complaining about how characters like Krystal and Black Shadow are even remotely popular. The former is even more despised then praised, which confuses me even more.

 

[Hoots]

I blame the assist trophy for this misconception.

Though then again, I'm not complaining about that. I'm more complaining about how Krystal and Black Shadow are even remotely popular.

Agreed. Anyone who actually plays a Starfy game will agree that he is perfect for Smash Bros. Yeah, I think Shorts' new poll is a little lackluster on the options. I know he's obsessed with Bandana Dee, but including him and leaving out a ton of characters far more likely than a generic enemy with a title is a little ridiculous.

Also, Other M was bad and if you liked it you should feel bad. A 12 year old Naruto fanfiction writer could write Samus better than Team Ninja did.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

It's pretty dumb tho, I was so hyping to see him in Smash and now regret to see him in Smash everytime he's appears out as an Assist. And people had even thought Sakurai hates Starfy. (-l_i-)

Okay but I think we should move this to character discussion I guess.

 

[FlareHabanero]

At least this topic is more on subject then SmashChu clogging everything with drivel related to Metroid: Other M.

 

[Big-Cat]

I've got a good topic for you guys.

What if all characters were unlocked from the start? In "return", we get tons of unlockables like costumes, music (preferably not the CD way), etc. that are more cosmetic than anything?

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Hmm, I dunno. The good part would be able to play the characters featured in the game right from get-to-go but I think it'd take away one of the most thrilling aspects of Smash Bros's unlockable content (unlockable characters).

I though might wish we'd have at least some unlockable characters because I dunno how one wishes to unlock the music, costumes and such if they don't expand the game much bigger than characters or stages do (or even new modes which come from the unlocking all characters like All-Star)

 

[Big-Cat]

Part of my problem with unlockable characters is that some play it just for that which seems like you're not playing it for the right reasons (meaning unlocking should only be a small part of the experience). And even then, most people find out the unlockable characters rather early, usually with three days range of the game's release so the unlocking becomes more of a chore than exploration.

They could try something like Tekken's Ghost Mode where you fight opponents to acquire in-game currency and assorted unlockables. Treat it like an offline ranked mode where you gradually fight smarter AI as you go on.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I'd miss the "Warning! Challenger Approaching!" screen if there were not unlockables that's for sure.

 

[Big-Cat]

I will admit, it is a thrill to see that screen.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I happen to like unlocking characters, though I wish the game would tell you what you needed to do to unlock them, rather than having to play through every single player mode hoping you unlock something.

 

[Frostwraith]

Agreed. Anyone who actually plays a Starfy game will agree that he is perfect for Smash Bros. Yeah, I think Shorts' new poll is a little lackluster on the options. I know he's obsessed with Bandana Dee, but including him and leaving out a ton of characters far more likely than a generic enemy with a title is a little ridiculous.

Also, Other M was bad and if you liked it you should feel bad. A 12 year old Naruto fanfiction writer could write Samus better than Team Ninja did.

Correction: Team Ninja did not write Other M's story, Sakamoto did.

I've got a good topic for you guys.

What if all characters were unlocked from the start? In "return", we get tons of unlockables like costumes, music (preferably not the CD way), etc. that are more cosmetic than anything?

ehh... I like having unlockable characters for the surprise factor.

I'd miss the "Warning! Challenger Approaching!" screen if there were not unlockables that's for sure.

me too ^

 

[---]

Yeah keep things unlockable, I like the sense of accomplishment and surprise. Honestly it's one of the big nitpicks that I have with UMvC3 and PS All Stars.

 

[RomanceDawn]

I've got a good topic for you guys.

What if all characters were unlocked from the start? In "return", we get tons of unlockables like costumes, music (preferably not the CD way), etc. that are more cosmetic than anything?

I love unlocking the characters, but if all oh them were already unlocked and it meant that more resources went to the trivial cosmetic stuff, then yes please!

Locked or unlocked doesn't mean anything to me since the end result is the same. But if those unlocking conditions were put towards more costumes and such I would welcome it with open arms.

I want to play as Squirrel Mario and Supper Strikers Bowser oh so badly.

 

[FlappyFalco]

From what I've been able to gather, a lot of the people are playing as each character more so for the characters themselves and less because of how they play.

That's why I always have a Tyrogue and a Treecko in my party in Pokemon, lol.

Starfy isn't that original in terms of appearance, but I haven't played a Starfy game before so I don't how he would play.

I got a Wii U on Friday. I had some problems setting it up, but it's good so far. Looking forward to playing Smash on it!

 

[Frostwraith]

I love unlocking the characters, but if all oh them were already unlocked and it meant that more resources went to the trivial cosmetic stuff, then yes please!

Locked or unlocked doesn't mean anything to me since the end result is the same. But if those unlocking conditions were put towards more costumes and such I would welcome it with open arms.

I want to play as Squirrel Mario and Supper Strikers Bowser oh so badly.

unlockable costumes doesn't necessarily mean the inexistence of unlockable characters, does it?

it is even better like that, as it adds replay value to the games.

 

[Gamingboy]

Some ideas for "alternate outfits":

Mario: The return of Doctor Mario seems a no-brainer if Alternate Outfits came about, but he could just as easily have a Wrecking-Crew outfit and such.

Samus: She's got tons of suits and such. There could be a "Justin Bailey" Zero-Suit Samus...

Pokemon Trainer: Red (the generic male Generation 1 Pokemon trainer) originally looked like this, not this. The original could easily be an alternate costume.

Bowser: Original Box-Art Bowser

 

[Frostwraith]

how about Mega Man's costumes?

there are a lot of choices here, no?

oh, I almost forgot! we also need THIS Mega Man!

Mega Man fans, u mad?

 

[FlareHabanero]

Yes we get it, the Bad Boxart Mega Man is absolute rubbish. What else is new?

 

[~automatic]

I found a dollar on the bus.

 

[Deleted member]

I would be sorely dissapointed if there was no unlocking characters.
Even if I knew ahead of time who they were and how to unlock them, that feel of actually doing it is just indescribable.

I mean, I'm willing to bet most of you knew Mewtwo was unlocked by playing 20 combined hours of VS Mode in Melee, and when you all set your controllers into VS mode and went to bed, the feel of waking up in the morning to unlock Mewtwo....it's like a smaller form of Christmas, is it not?

 

[Starphoenix]

Agreed. Anyone who actually plays a Starfy game will agree that he is perfect for Smash Bros. Yeah, I think Shorts' new poll is a little lackluster on the options. I know he's obsessed with Bandana Dee, but including him and leaving out a ton of characters far more likely than a generic enemy with a title is a little ridiculous.

A) I'm the obsessed Bandana Dee supporter.
B) Shorts compiled the top twenty-five characters from all of his polls spanning the past two and a half years, so he didn't pick them per se. They were already voted upon, he just chiseled it down to those specific twenty-five.

 

[Mishudo]

I never knew why people wanted every character to be already unlocked. It reduces the feeling of accomplishment, and no one can deny the pure ecstasy of seeing that Challeneger Approaching scenes. I do agree it'd be awesome if there was a form of ingame instructions of how to unlock new characters though.

 

[Deleted member]

While seemingly "cheap" at first, having in-game guidelines for unlocking characters without actually revealing who the character is could end up benefitting those who want to know how to unlock characters without spoilers.

 

[The Real Gamer]

I mean, I'm willing to bet most of you knew Mewtwo was unlocked by playing 20 combined hours of VS Mode in Melee, and when you all set your controllers into VS mode and went to bed, the feel of waking up in the morning to unlock Mewtwo....it's like a smaller form of Christmas, is it not?

OH MY GOD THIS.

Sorry for the overreaction but you just brought back so many memories. XD

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I never knew why people wanted every character to be already unlocked. It reduces the feeling of accomplishment, and no one can deny the pure ecstasy of seeing that Challeneger Approaching scenes. I do agree it'd be awesome if there was a form of ingame instructions of how to unlock new characters though.

People don't like having to unlock characters because they don't like doing what they feel are a set of arbitrary tasks just to be able to play as their favorite/preffered character. It's even worse if you don't like any of the characters made avaliable at the start.

IMO it would be interesting if all veterans, maybe sans villains, were avaliable from the start, with only newcomers being unlockeables.

 

[Gamingboy]

I found a dollar on the bus.

I don't know if because of the randomness of that or just the image in my head of automatic's Jolteon avatar picking up a dollar in the bus, but I laughed.

 

[BlackSmoke]

The servers weren't the (big) issue with Brawl, the Wii's online capabilities were. They didn't help, but they are the big reason. In other words, expect positive changes, especially with the Soul Calibur team at Namco Bandai making Smash Bros. WiiU and 3DS. They did a fantastic job (or so I hear) with Soul Calibur V's online.

Thank the Smash Gods some competent fighting game people are working on this!

 

[Johnknight1]

^^^ Thank the Smash Gods some competent console people are working on this! And seeing as how the WiiU is much more powerful than the Xbox 360 and PS3, the online might actually trump Soul Calibur V's online!

Bamco definitely knows about this. I can't say for certain for Soul Caliber, but prior to Tekken 6, you had some moves that started up in 8 frames and were considered OP from my understanding. Come Tekken 6, this was changed where the fastest attack was 10 frames and that every single character had a 10 frame jab available to them and this still holds for TTT2. This also helped with the turn taking nature of fighting as most attacks are unsafe on block, but there are a handful of safer ones, some with a positive advantage (not much). I've mentioned this in the frame data thread, but thought it was mentioning again.

I don't think it needs to be quite that slow, but the jab speeds need to be about as equal and powerful with most characters for most of their attacks. The speed of Fox's shine (including the pre and post-lag) is what makes that move the most overpowered move in smash bros. It kills, it sets up kills, it breaks momentum, it murders combos, it helps with spacing, it leads to combos, it continues your combos, it combos itself, it combos itself into kills, it helps mix up your recovery timing... it is a Switz Army Knife in Melee!

Aww, whether it's fake or not, that rumour has basically summed up in to words what i think we'd all want for the game, except not sure about Beta testing.

but I mean the single player and balancing issues... I think we can all agree that'd be incredible. oh well.

That would be great if true, which is why it is fake. Sakurai is never up front with this stuff. The only guy that could get this kind of stuff out would be the guy who runs Serebii.net.

Please, Other M wasn't that bad.

Aside from the female stereotype of "women can't be independent" that Team Ninja employs (their top guy basically flat out laid out how sexist he is), Samus being terribly characterized (and impossible to relate to), and the fact the game pales in comparison to Metroid Prime 1-3, Metroid Fusion, Zero Mission, and Super Metroid (all legendary games IMO), it's a good game. If it wasn't Metroid, it would have gotten a much more positive response. I'd say it's kinda like Star Wars Episode III, to where, in the greater universe of their series, they "hurt" the series, but as a single, isolated thing, they are pretty good.

So pretty much, I (mostly) sided with SmashChu. I guess that makes us an AXIS OF EVIL! Que the music of the newly formed evil empire! Now start my BAMF theme music!!!

Lol, someone responding to Sakurai's page is salty about Mewtwo and Roy. Not sure what specifically, but something pertaining to them.

For once it wasn't me or Chrono sending those messages to Sakurai!

I mean, I'm willing to bet most of you knew Mewtwo was unlocked by playing 20 combined hours of VS Mode in Melee, and when you all set your controllers into VS mode and went to bed, the feel of waking up in the morning to unlock Mewtwo....it's like a smaller form of Christmas, is it not?

How do you know me, and how do you know where I lived=??? But seriously, you just brought me over to agree with you. I remember pissing my pants with excitement over that!

 

[Big-Cat]

I don't think it needs to be quite that slow, but the jab speeds need to be about as equal and powerful with most characters for most of their attacks. The speed of Fox's shine (including the pre and post-lag) is what makes that move the most overpowered move in smash bros. It kills, it sets up kills, it breaks momentum, it murders combos, it helps with spacing, it leads to combos, it continues your combos, it combos itself, it combos itself into kills, it helps mix up your recovery timing... it is a Switz Army Knife in Melee!

Oh no, I wasn't implying that jabs be at 10 frames. The point I was making was that the fastest attack in Tekken in 10 frames and everyone has a 10 frame jab to balance the roster.

Something like 3-4 frames is fine for a game like this.