Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[bobadz]

I expected either Yoshi, Ness, Luigi, or Captain Falcon, preferably Jigglypuff, since we know they're coming back ANYWAY.

Ness, Luigi, Captain Falcon, and Jigglypuff are likely unlockable.

As Sakurai would say: "please be patient". We had almost no info for a year. We can survive a month or two.

 

[Oasis_S]

@Oasis: But that Still Stacks up to be a lot of Space, especially since the N64 games were OoT and Starfox 64, which were probably larger than most N64 games. And I doubt Super Metroid was negligible.

I guarantee you altogether they took up less than 64MB of space. Maybe like, 40. And maybe 7 of that is non-N64 stuff.

 

[`dazrin]

Considering the WiiU/3DS's power, and considering how many characters are sure-fire to return as well as how many of the series contained in Brawl that were most likely maxed out on spots WITHOUT realizing increased spots for WiiU/3DS (Mario, Zelda, Pokemon) or were just starting to include new characters at all (Kirby, DK),

It seems to me about 24-26 of Brawl's roster will be back, and the rest will be newcomers. Brawl has 35 characters; I can't really imagine how much of an increase in spots we'll have.

As a pointless comparison to other crossover games, UMVC3 has 48, though it's to be noted that this was after having a rerelease. Without inclusion, it leaves at 36.
Street Fighter x Tekken includes 60, but only after including each and every DLC character playable. Without inclusion, it leaves at 38.
Sony's Playstation All Stars Battle Royale also includes 48, but only after releasing DLC. Without the two, it has 46.

Can these three results be of any lead towards what we can expect? I believe they might, as PASBR includes another 11 characters than Brawl did and was the latest released, while the previous crossover games all had 34-38, including Brawl, which had the least playable out of each game even without the consideration of the other games' DLC. This leaves me to expect at least 10-15 more characters than what Brawl had to offer, realizing that PASBR is a game that is very close to Smash Bros.

This would leave us at 34-41 characters, the lowest being the least likely as it's less than what Brawl gave us, and the highest being DOUBLE the amount of "sure-fire" characters to return to us in Smash 4 I could come up with, off by just 1 slot.

Of course, 41 is being hopeful. I would be fine with simply 35, same as what we had when Brawl was released. But we do have to remember that, yes, if the 3DS can't handle the amount of characters that the WiiU can (for whatever reason, I have no knowledge on this kind of thing mind you), then we would be limited.

(Made a quick edit, typo near the first sentence of the final paragraph.)

TBH, as someone who's involved with the development of Project M, I can say that space really isn't really a big deal-- not on the Wii U version anyway, but it could definitely be a big issue on the 3DS version. However, I think the main issue here is performance and how smoothly the game will run as a result of the character's that are put into the game and how much resources the stages/items/bosses/whatever take up. I really doubt that the 3DS has the capabilities to support smooth gameplay with characters like PT and Zelda/Sheik when you factor in all the possible chaos that can occur in a smash game and especially when you factor in online play.

How transformations work (in previous smash games) is that all transformations are loaded as soon as you pick the character on the CSS and are effectively *in the background* during gameplay, ready to be switched to at anytime. Seeing how brawl had some problems with loading times on transformation characters, I really don't know if the 3DS is capable of handling this kind of thing smoothly.

As far as space is concerned, I don't know how much space a 3ds cart can hold, but regardless, Sakurai wants to keep the amount of characters on the roster around the same as brawl's. He's stated he doesn't want to add very many, if any, more character slots to the game to keep things efficient and easy for the developers. Things like balance, voice acting, sound effects, animations, modeling, texturing, and more all go into consideration when you want to add a character to the game. This is a lot of work, and uses up a lot of development time, space on the hardware, and afterwards, testing/bug fixing. This is all time that could be used on other things like making sure the core gameplay is good. I think this is the reason why Sakurai just wants to go and diversify the roster rather than adding more characters on top of what we already have. It means we'll have cuts, but it's definitely for the greater good.

 

[Oasis_S]

I don't think you've been reading much, dazrin.

 

[FalKoopa]

http://www.smashbros.com/update/images/daily.jpg

Well never expect the expected with Sakurai.[/IMG]

That picture looks wrong for so many reasons...

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

As far as space is concerned, I don't know how much space a 3ds cart can hold, but regardless, Sakurai wants to keep the amount of characters on the roster around the same as brawl's.

When did he say that? He said he wanted to add as many characters as possible. He also explicity stated that he dislikes cuts.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Ness, Luigi, Captain Falcon, and Jigglypuff are likely unlockable.

As Sakurai would say: "please be patient". We had almost no info for a year. We can survive a month or two.

I kinda want Ness and Falcon to be starters again, like in Melee. I guess Lucas could be unlockable.

 

[Oasis_S]

If Captain Falcon is a starter, I will be inclined to believe there will be a second F-Zero character... WHICH MAY NOT BE VERY WISE.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

If Captain Falcon is a starter, I will be inclined to believe there will be a second F-Zero character... WHICH MAY NOT BE VERY WISE.

IS Captain falcon the fire starter? I usually pick the water starter

 

[`dazrin]

When did he say that? He said he wanted to add as many characters as possible. He also explicity stated that he dislikes cuts.

http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/39783/smash-bros-wii-u-may-not-feature-more-characters/

This is what I was referring to.

edit: here's another article saying a similar thing: http://www.officialnintendomagazine...ii-u-and-3ds-sakurai-confirms-new-characters/

Sure, Sakurai wants to add in as many characters as possible, and doesn't like giving cuts, but if he's going to make a more diverse, and more balanced roster of characters rather than just an innately bigger roster, there are going to have to be some cuts, and that's just the way it's going to be. He's already said that it's going to have to happen. :/

 

[Shorts]

After Sonic the Hedgehog — who appeared in Super Smash Bros. Brawl — Mega Man was the most requested guest character, Sakurai said.

He's using Brawl polls...

 

[Diddy Kong]

If Captain Falcon is a starter, I will be inclined to believe there will be a second F-Zero character... WHICH MAY NOT BE VERY WISE.

Like in Melee?

I believe the only other F-Zero 'character' will be Blood Falcon again.

So Sakurai uses Brawl polls?

 

[psyniac_123]

I can't believe you people are expecting more than a photo from Sakurai desk's - which is what we were explicitly told we were getting - already.

As it was said thousands of times during the development cycle last time and will no doubt hit the millions before Smash 4 comes out; It's a privilege to see anything, not a right.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Compared what we got for Brawl, this is kind of a let down though.

Just let my 12 year old brother see the trailer. Guess which character he's the most excited for?

Spoiler

It's Wii Fit Trainer. He's gonna play as her he said

Pretty much. It's sad too, because I would've loved to see the rest of the Forbidden 7 playable. Albeit, the balance would be even worse, but having a true 3rd Gen rep(Pokemon Trainer still has the 3rd Gen Pokemon Trainer Basic design, but you know what I mean), albeit, if Plusle & Minun were real would be cool. Not so much Toon Zelda and Toon Sheik, of course. The rest, yes. Roy, Dr. Mario, Dixie Kong, and Mewtwo would've been great.

I wouldn't bet on Toon Sheik being an actual Toon 'Sheik'. I'd rather expect Tetra. Filenames don't say anything. Roy isn't called Emblem for example. And Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard have actual names instead of just Pokémon. Though, Plusle & Minun are still quite interessting, but not exactly on my wishlist. But am mostly hyped for the Forbidden 7 trio of Mewtwo, Dixie Kong and Roy. Dr.Mario can stay out of Smash forever if it where up to me.

 

[bobadz]

I can't believe you people are expecting more than a photo from Sakurai desk's - which is what we were explicitly told we were getting - already.

As it was said thousands of times during the development cycle last time and will no doubt hit the millions before Smash 4 comes out; It's a privilege to see anything, not a right.

This man speaks the truth.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well, let's just say I'm looking forward to more character reveal trailers.

 

[Oasis_S]

I wonder if we'll even get character reveals on the Dojo in its current form? The former Brawl one had a rather basic precursor as well.

I forget, was there a particular occasion for when the Brawl Dojo underwent its TRANSFORMATION?

 

[psyniac_123]

I wonder if we'll even get character reveals on the Dojo in its current form? The former Brawl one had a rather basic precursor as well.

I forget, was there a particular occasion for when the Brawl Dojo underwent its TRANSFORMATION?

Not as I recall, it just kind of appeared one Monday.

 

[sonus]

Here are my thoughts on more reveals.

First off, I know it feels like its been FOREVER since E3...but it is just now a week since E3, yet we feel like we are deserving of a reveal like its been months.

SECOND- (which gives me the most hope) Consider how many characters are yet to be revealed, we only know of 12, and most of us are confident in a 36+ sized roster, which leaves at least 24 more characters. IF the game is to come out in 2014, well thats only 6 months away. IF it comes out summer next year, thats 12 months away.

Either he is going to have to reveal 2 characters a month, (or more) or he may have a month where he reveals a ton of characters at once to make up for the months missed in order for us to know the whole roster before release.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I wouldn't bet on Toon Sheik being an actual Toon 'Sheik'. I'd rather expect Tetra. Filenames don't say anything. Roy isn't called Emblem for example. And Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard have actual names instead of just Pokémon. Though, Plusle & Minun are still quite interessting, but not exactly on my wishlist. But am mostly hyped for the Forbidden 7 trio of Mewtwo, Dixie Kong and Roy. Dr.Mario can stay out of Smash forever if it where up to me.

Nope. There's little chance for Tetra overall. After Sheik was given a specific Twilight Princess style, there's little chance they wouldn't do so for Toon Sheik as well. Of course, I'm talking about what was planned for Brawl. Of course I wouldn't want Toon Sheik in For. I'd prefer Toon Zelda/Phantom Zelda. Not that that would've happened in Brawl, and it's now quite doubtful for For.

Tetra would've been given the filename if it was who was in the data. Also, Dr. Mario isn't even the original Mario anyway according to Miyamoto. He's just some guy who's dressed similar to him. Because Mario just plain wouldn't play as a Doctor. He just has the same body as Mario, justifying him be a clone. Which also means he won't be in For, mainly because Sakurai refuses to make him a lame costume, because he's too important.

\effect\fighter\ef_dixie.pac, size: 128 off:2A940A20
\effect\fighter\ef_dr_mario.pac, size: 128 off:2A953C0
\effect\fighter\ef_mewtwo.pac, size: 128 off:2AB1D5E0
\effect\fighter\ef_pra_mai.pac, size: 128 off:2AC9DE40
\effect\fighter\ef_roy.pac, size: 128 off:2AD02780
\effect\fighter\ef_toon_sheik.pac, size: 128 off:2ADBF4A0
\effect\fighter\ef_toon_zelda.pac, size: 128 off:2ADBF520

Hmm... Yeah. No. I don't see how it could've been Tetra. Not when the rest are blatantly obvious. Pra_Mai could be anyone, but they're clearly a character slot. It's speculated as random, but still. They're zero reason to believe it's anything but Toon Sheik at the time this was put in the data. It could mean that he decided against her and might've put Tetra in later. Sure, that's believable. But there's really no question that it was meant to be Toon Sheik in the data.

 

[Oasis_S]

I'm guessing it's going to be a long while before we even get a veteran revealed, much less (more?) a newcomer.

 

[`dazrin]

Here are my thoughts on more reveals.

First off, I know it feels like its been FOREVER since E3...but it is just now a week since E3, yet we feel like we are deserving of a reveal like its been months.

SECOND- (which gives me the most hope) Consider how many characters are yet to be revealed, we only know of 12, and most of us are confident in a 36+ sized roster, which leaves at least 24 more characters. IF the game is to come out in 2014, well thats only 6 months away. IF it comes out summer next year, thats 12 months away.

Either he is going to have to reveal 2 characters a month, (or more) or he may have a month where he reveals a ton of characters at once to make up for the months missed in order for us to know the whole roster before release.

.... uh, or--

he will just choose not to reveal certain characters at all until after launch? No one on nintendo is obligated to show us EVERYTHING before the game comes out lol.

In fact, I hope they dont show everything before the game comes out. It would really make the experience of playing the game and unlocking everything not as exciting, similarly to how brawl was. In brawl, I felt like it was a chore to unlock everyone since I knew full well the entire roster before the game came out. It makes unlocking "hidden" characters not so "hidden" anymore, and just another task to do in order to play who you want.

Growing up with ssb64 and Melee, the internet wasn't as popular as it is today, and so it really was a mystery to me as a kid as to what characters were hidden in the game. Finding out who was unlockable was part of the fun back in the day, so I hope they leave us with some surprises to explore once the game is out.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I doubt he'll show us everything. I wouldn't mind atleast all the Starters and Newcomer Starters. As well as all Third Parties. I like having a surprise~

 

[bobadz]

I doubt he'll show us everything. I wouldn't mind atleast all the Starters and Newcomer Starters. As well as all Third Parties. I like having a surprise~

That's how it was in melee and brawl. Unlockables (minus the third party's) were shown after the game was released.

 

[Oasis_S]

That's how it was in melee and brawl. Unlockables (minus the third party's) were shown after the game was released.

I don't think people realize that when we have starter vs unlockable discussions. It's about who might be revealed before the game is released.

 

[sonus]

.... uh, or--

he will just choose not to reveal certain characters at all until after launch? No one on nintendo is obligated to show us EVERYTHING before the game comes out lol.

In fact, I hope they dont show everything before the game comes out. It would really make the experience of playing the game and unlocking everything not as exciting, similarly to how brawl was. In brawl, I felt like it was a chore to unlock everyone since I knew full well the entire roster before the game came out. It makes unlocking "hidden" characters not so "hidden" anymore, and just another task to do in order to play who you want.

Growing up with ssb64 and Melee, the internet wasn't as popular as it is today, and so it really was a mystery to me as a kid as to what characters were hidden in the game. Finding out who was unlockable was part of the fun back in the day, so I hope they leave us with some surprises to explore once the game is out.

lol...

even with this logic, you really think he would leave out THAT many characters before launch?? I could maybe MAYBE see a few but it wouldn't be a large number. Most characters would be revealed, with a hint saying some we will have to discover for our selves or something.

I already know comments have been made about how the internet already ruins things that they could otherwise keep a secret so its not even worth doing now.

 

[bobadz]

I don't think people realize that when we have starter vs unlockable discussions. It's about who might be revealed before the game is released.

I agree. For example Villains (minus bowser) seem more likely to be unlockables then starters.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That's how it was in melee and brawl. Unlockables (minus the third party's) were shown after the game was released.

Was it? I thought some were still shown... but eh. I hope he keeps that trend.

 

[sonus]

That's how it was in melee and brawl. Unlockables (minus the third party's) were shown after the game was released.

are we talking about Japan release or US?

 

[bobadz]

are we talking about Japan release or US?

The Japanese release. Ness was revealedon the site ether the day Brawl launched in Japan , or the day after. I don't remember.

 

[sonus]

That's how it was in melee and brawl. Unlockables (minus the third party's) were shown after the game was released.

Brawl only had like 14 unlockables so that would mean the majority of the cast was revealed prior to release, which is what I hope happens with this one, meaning we probably have quite a few more reveals left to show with fewer months until release(just a guess)

 

[bobadz]

also, Brawl only had like 14 unlockables so that would mean the majority of the cast was revealed prior to release

Correct, the last starter newcomer confirmed was Olimar, and the last starter veteran confirmed was Shiek.

 

[Oasis_S]

I agree. For example Villains (minus bowser) seem more likely to be unlockables then starters.

I think that's more coincidence than anything, with Mewtwo (if he counts) as the only real example of that. Ganondorf and Wolf are hidden away because they're similar to other characters. Then you have Bowser, Wario, Dedede (IF HE COUNTS?) as starters.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Correct, the last starter newcomer confirmed was Olimar, and the last starter veteran confirmed was Shiek.

Now he just has to confirm these guys much faster. Although to be honest, I wouldn't mind having Ganondorf playable from the start and Child Link and Zelda/Sheik unlockable. >_> Unless, maybe, we get another bad guy, I.E. Vaati, and Zelda/Sheik are chooseable from the start.

 

[bobadz]

Now he just has to confirm these guys much faster. Although to be honest, I wouldn't mind having Ganondorf playable from the start and Child Link and Zelda/Sheik unlockable. >_> Unless, maybe, we get another bad guy, I.E. Vaati, and Zelda/Sheik are chooseable from the start.

He was trolling with Shiek though. Zelda was the first Veteran confirmed on the site, and he always avoided mentioning her moveset.

 

[sonus]

even if he only reveals 12 more of the whole roster, that's still an average of 1 per month assuming it comes out a year from now.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

He was trolling with Shiek though. Zelda was the first Veteran confirmed on the site, and he always avoided mentioning her moveset.

True. Now he can troll, with say... Jigglypuff. It'd be funnier.

Also, about the image shown today. Maybe it means we can actually jump on the tightropes like a spring to get height? Or there might be some kind of unique move one can do off of it? Alternatively, Fox's Air Down A or Air Neutral A could be a body slam now. A lot is possible.

 

[bobadz]

In other news, some people are taking Sakurai's statements on Samus's design ("She looks powered up") as him taking a jab at Other M. It's also interesting to note he avoided talking about Link in the developer direct even when he was lined up with Pit and Samus.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Maybe Namco-Bandai is working on Link for the most part. He was a really good character in Soul Calibur II, soooooooooo...

 

[FlareHabanero]

It's also interesting to note he avoided talking about Link in the developer direct even when he was lined up with Pit and Samus.

Well, he does hate The Legend of Zelda.