Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Snake and Sonic are discounted because Sakurai said so before Melee.

See how that logic falters?

Wasn't Kojima asking Sakurai for Snake to be in Melee, but because the game was so far along, it just couldn't be done, so Snake was put in Brawl instead? So he was GOING to be Melee, but time restraints said otherwise.

So basically, Snake and Lucas were in the same boat.

 

[Curious Villager]

Really I don't know why Goku would be even considered to begin with. I don't know what would Sakurai even think if that'd really happen. He'd surely know the chaotic consequences from adding Goku, and that is Smash Bros becoming just beyond inconsistent and opening way for all kinds of characters we human beings can think of. I mean, he's already feeling bit uncertain and strict on adding 3rd parties.

No really, I bet he'd get pretty dang annoyed if all kinds of fellows would be requested as 3rd parties, along with Smash Bros just becoming something near a multiplayer platformer fighter aking to M.U.G.E.N for most people.

This.

Sakurai is already trying to be careful with third parties by not wanting to add them "willy nilly", and he likely knows how that made many fans start requesting all sorts of third party characters for smash bros when Snake showed up. Adding someone like Goku will only end up encouraging fans to start requesting the likes of Luffy and other anime/manga characters, it would just become chaotic for Sakurai and only help drive the series even further from what it was originally intended to be. And I'm pretty sure he knows this.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Smash Bros is about the best Nintendo characters fighting against each other. The third parties kinda break with the purpose of the game, but are added due to many requests ( or whether it is from the creator begging for his character to be in the game). You could say the same for Goku.

 

[Deleted member]

Wasn't Kojima asking Sakurai for Snake to be in Melee, but because the game was so far along, it just couldn't be done, so Snake was put in Brawl instead? So he was GOING to be Melee, but time restraints said otherwise.

He wasn't "going" to be in Melee, he was just brought up to Sakurai during Melee's development (at a bad time).

And in all honesty, I have a hard time believing that Snake would have been in Melee even if development would allow it.
Regardless of Snake and Kojima being friends
-Sakurai stated that non-Nintendo characters were ineligible before Melee's development.
-Snake wasn't that big of a star at the time.
-Only two of then four games were on a Nintendo system, one of which was a edited port Kojima hates, and the other is a non-canon Gaiden story.
-Of the 6 non-Nintendo characters that received votes on the pre-Melee poll, Snake is not one of them.

 

[Banjodorf]

I think it's different when those particular third parties are particular iconic video game characters. Sonic and Snake are widely recognized characters from popular, successful video game franchises. If Goku were added, he wouldn't be viewed as a video game character; he'd be viewed as an Anime character.

That's not what Smash should become, and I'm very sure Sakurai knows that. It's a video game that celebrates video games, and video games that celebrate non-video games are different in that regard.

 

[Hoots]

Pretty much this for me. The only third parties who would actually properly excite me would be Professor Layton and Megaman. But like Peacock said. Laytons chances aren't that good even if he has creator's interest. His demand just isn't big enough sadly. :/

Don't lose hope just yet. Let's consider the things in Layton's favor (ASIDE from him being popular, iconic, unique, etc). You'll have to forgive my lack of sources, since I'm on my phone and it's far too much effort to hunt them down now. You'll just have to trust me.

1. He is a cultural icon in Japan. In fact, in some SF4 parody that was done where the characters were replaced by popular Japanese icons, Layton was included. Mario and Sonic were not.

2. Akiro Hino, Layton's creator, has expressed interest in having Layton be playable in Smash Bros. I understand that this doesn't mean TOO much (Travis Touchdown's creator wants to see Travis in Smash and we all know that's not happening), however who knows what could happen if Hino goes out of his way to request Layton's appearance.

3. Layton is practically a Nintendo character despite being technically 3rd party. The only game that appeared off a Nintendo console was some bizarre mobile phone game that never left Japan. In fact, in celebration of some sort of anniversary, Nintendo posted a photo of a shelf filled with all of the iconic games from Nintendo's history. Along with all of the first party classics, Professor Layton and the Mysterious Village was included.

4. Sakurai is aware of the possibility of making Layton a playable character (unlike for Ridley in Brawl). On a Japanese talk show, Sakurai appeared with Hino and the host of the show even suggested that Layton should be in the next Smash in front of both of them. The seed at the very least has been planted.

Now all of this could very well mean nothing to his chances, since it's all pretty much up to Sakurai's whims. However, I think he has a hell of a lot going for him than most third parties.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I think it's different when those particular third parties are particular iconic video game characters. Sonic and Snake are widely recognized characters from popular, successful video game franchises. If Goku were added, he wouldn't be viewed as a video game character; he'd be viewed as an Anime character.

That's not what Smash should become, and I'm very sure Sakurai knows that. It's a video game that celebrates video games, and video games that celebrate non-video games are different in that regard.

Smash Bros is a videogame series that celebrates Nintendo characters.
Third parties are there just because of the amount of requests (and begging)

 

[Banjodorf]

Smash Bros is a videogame series that celebrates Nintendo characters.
Third parties are there just because of the amount of requests (and begging)

They're video game characters that have appeared in Nintendo games. Sonic has a special history with Nintendo, as Mario's rival, despite being an incredibly fan-popular character. I think Snake is a special case in this regard, as he was a specific request. Snake does still have a bit of history with Nintendo. It's not much, but at the very least, Snake is a widely recognized video game icon.

I understand people love Goku. I love Goku, and I woudln't mind him, but the fact that this discussion is on-going is just...odd. I blame the lack of things to really talk about before the 11th...

 

[FlareHabanero]

I blame the lack of things to really talk about before the 11th...

Trust me, after the 11th we'll have a steady stream of details once the new DOJO!! comes around and we start a new era of Japan Time.

Just remember that you must recover.

 

[Deleted member]

If Layton is in Smash, I hope they go the "fight without fighting" route for him.
Given Layton's preference of using brain as opposed to brawn (even lampshaded by that Layton Twitter joke by a Nintendo employee in regards to Layton not wanting to participate in the Smash Bros. Tournament due to it being just a barbaric test of strength), his attacks shouldn't actually involve him directly striking the opponent (unless of course, it is self-defense, like a fencing counterattack).

I really don't have a good way to explain this....

EDIT: Wait, I got it.
Like Phoenix Wright in Marvel 3.

 

[Banjodorf]

Just remember that you must recover.

Always. Words to live by. I'll never forget.

 

[Oasis_S]

So long story short: Is Goku a possibility? Yes. Is Goku a probability? No.

Is Goku even worth being brought up in a discussion? No.

I don't know how you're even making such a newbie mistake like imagining Namco owns him just because they make games with him in it. I guess if Mega Man gets in, then Capcom better toss in Iron Man, right?

 

[Hoots]

If Layton is in Smash, I hope they go the "fight without fighting" route for him.
Given Layton's preference of using brain as opposed to brawn (even lampshaded by that Layton Twitter joke by a Nintendo employee in regards to Layton not wanting to participate in the Smash Bros. Tournament due to it being just a barbaric test of strength), his attacks shouldn't actually involve him directly striking the opponent (unless of course, it is self-defense, like a fencing counterattack).

I really don't have a good way to explain this....

Just as a bit of a correction, that twitter account was actually just a fan roleplaying and promoting the game for fun, despite the common misconception that he was affiliated with Nintendo in any way. Also, if you play Layton's game or watch his movie, he does do some fighting (sword fight, slot machine gun, etc). I think he could easily do some fighting, but I agree that they should definitely incorporate a very unique and more passive moveset.

Trust me, after the 11th we'll have a steady stream of details once the new DOJO!! comes around and we start a new era of Japan Time.

Just remember that you must recover.

I will never, EVER forget that update.


Also, forget Goku. There's only one anime character worthy enough to be in smash.

Spoiler

 

[Curious Villager]

Don't lose hope just yet. Let's consider the things in Layton's favor (ASIDE from him being popular, iconic, unique, etc). You'll have to forgive my lack of sources, since I'm on my phone and it's far too much effort to hunt them down now. You'll just have to trust me.

1. He is a cultural icon in Japan. In fact, in some SF4 parody that was done where the characters were replaced by popular Japanese icons, Layton was included. Mario and Sonic were not.

2. Akiro Hino, Layton's creator, has expressed interest in having Layton be playable in Smash Bros. I understand that this doesn't mean TOO much (Travis Touchdown's creator wants to see Travis in Smash and we all know that's not happening), however who knows what could happen if Hino goes out of his way to request Layton's appearance.

3. Layton is practically a Nintendo character despite being technically 3rd party. The only game that appeared off a Nintendo console was some bizarre mobile phone game that never left Japan. In fact, in celebration of some sort of anniversary, Nintendo posted a photo of a shelf filled with all of the iconic games from Nintendo's history. Along with all of the first party classics, Professor Layton and the Mysterious Village was included.

4. Sakurai is aware of the possibility of making Layton a playable character (unlike for Ridley in Brawl). On a Japanese talk show, Sakurai appeared with Hino and the host of the show even suggested that Layton should be in the next Smash in front of both of them. The seed at the very least has been planted.

Now all of this could very well mean nothing to his chances, since it's all pretty much up to Sakurai's whims. However, I think he has a hell of a lot going for him than most third parties.

I'm happy to read that Hoots. I actually knew about 2 and 4 and I've put sources of them in the Professor Layton support thread. As for 3. It wasn't just a mobile game that was made outside Nintendo consoles, Layton has been given a few spin off games for the IOS as well such as Layton Royale, Layton Brothers Mystery room and Professor Layton and the Phantom Thieves. Although wether that matters much is up for debate since Pokemon has also gotten two games released on the IOS such as Pokedex 3d Pro and another one which name escapes me right now. But all of these spin off's indeed never left Japan like you said. Except for London Life which was incorporated alongside Professor Layton and the Last Specters Call (Which again only America received alongside Japan)

The interesting thing about number 4 is how that news came around the time Curious Village was out in Japan, that was around the time people laughed at the idea of Layton making it into smash. Presumebly because Layton hasn't shown any sign's of being able to fight during that time. Now fast forward several years later. If anybody were to claim that Layton can't fight they are the ones who get laughed at instead. Of course this is just speculation at the moment but I wonder if the fact Layton has become more combat happy in the series since the very second game and onwards has anything to do with that talk show that happened and if Hino and Sakurai have discussed about Layton behind the scenes. Of course like I said, this is only speculation at the moment but still.

Also according to some people here, Sakurai and Hino are apparently good friends as well and the source is apparently on Sakurai's twitter according to someone. I have yet to see a source on this though.

Layton is definitely more likely than the fast majority of third party characters out there. But wether he is likely enough for smash is yet to be seen I suppose. I still want to see that source where Hino and Sakurai are good friends. That would certainly boost my hopes for Layton.

 

[Banjodorf]

EDIT: Wait, I got it.
Like Phoenix Wright in Marvel 3.

I dunno, I'm one of those people that really supports Layton, albeit silently, but I wasn't a big fan of Phoenix Wright's style in UMVC3, I just don't feel it would translate well to Smash, would doom him to being an overly gimmicky character when they can find ways to make him work and still be in character. Stuff from his games can be used in self-defense.

Smash is a pretty barbaric setup; if Layton was just dropped into it randomly, he'd still have to defend himself somehow. Bowser isn't much for diplomacy.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Here's my input on Monkey Boy. We all grew up with Dragon Ball and think of his as the most popular overpowered manga protagonist, he could be an Ok choice. Though, the fanboy in me beleives that the idea of a Namco Bandai video game character would be even MORE appealing than the likes of him. Besides, I'd rather have J-Stars Victory VS localized (which is a 40% chance of happening). IF he were to make it in, I would be crying myself to sleep while dreaming of Lloyd or Pac Man being in the roster instead. The overall idea is just too risky.

 

[Johnknight1]

Also, people do exaggerate the "well-known" trump card. It's not exactly the end all decision for inclusion, because let's face it a lot of people aren't even familiar with half of the cast in the Super Smash Bros. games. Hell, Roy should **** all over that notion by default due to the character literally debuting in Super Smash Bros.

Roy ain't third party, and so far, Snake is the least well-known 3rd party playable character in smash, and he isn't exactly an unknown character to gamers.

I knew I was ironic.
The idea of Goku in Smash Bros. is just... I can't even...

Brawl Vault literally has probably at least 200 Goku-based hacks and well over 1,000 Dragon Ball-media hacks. There's gotta at least be 50 mods of Goku where he replaces another character with a brand new moveset.

 

[8-peacock-8]

I'd rather have J-Stars Victory VS localized (which is a 40% chance of happening).

Lol.....yeah keep dreaming of that 40%.

 

[Johnknight1]

Goku would open up the floodgates to any character, which would result in people either wanting Smash vs. Dragon Ball, Smash: M.U.G.E.N. Edition, or something else.

Seriously, if you want a M.U.G.E.N. smash game so bad guys, hack the game, and make it that way, or go hack M.U.G.E.N., and make it very much like Smash.

Whenever I read people drag out the silent e in a word my brain isn't unsure whether to read it as just "Science" or read, "Science-eeeeeeeee!"

The latter.

I keep forgetting that I have Sticker Star...

Probably because it let you down in so many painful ways.

 

[Deleted member]

Is Goku even worth being brought up in a discussion? No.

I don't know how you're even making such a newbie mistake like imagining Namco owns him just because they make games with him in it. I guess if Mega Man gets in, then Capcom better toss in Iron Man, right?

More worth than Sukapon. At least Sakurai actually said something on the order of him never being a possibility

And once again, you misinterpret what I say and use a horrible counterpoint. (In other words, you're being weak )
I never once said nor implied Namco-Bandai owns him. They merely have power to do what they want with him within the realm of video games, given that Bandai holds the license for media outside the manga itself (which is licensed by Shueisha for publication) and the anime itself (which is licensed by Toei Animation) and have had held it since before 1990.
This includes toys and video games.
Same holds true for the Naruto franchise, which is why they are able to include a character from Namco's Tekken franchise as a guest in Ultimate Ninja Storm 2, and why they are able to include a special Goku costume for Naruto in Ultimate Ninja Storm 3 despite Naruto's license for the anime belonging to Studio Pierrot rather than Toei Animation.

Your Iron Man example falls because not only is Capcom not working on Smash 4, but they hold no rights to Marvel characters whatsoever by any stretch of the means.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Lol.....yeah keep dreaming of that 40%.

Better believe it, my mind is like a demon. :trollface: (Apparently, the damn gamepad doesn't want me to put the damn icon in the right location.)

All jokes aside, you are right. I over estimated the chances and I highly doubt a "Tatsunoko vs. Capcom" situation would happen again.

 

[Johnknight1]

Well, in an article about the Tekken staff wanting to addd a character, it was said that Sakurai wasn't really sold on the idea and wanted to really think about third party additions because of how much it takes to add them. That's all I really mean and I wish I could find the article.

Well just getting a character considered is a huge deal, but it's gotta be someone with history or huge significance. I don't even think Lloyd Irving, despite being in something of a cult classic GameCube game fits that qualification. You look at Tekken, and there's no real "Ryu" above and beyond main character status. Maybe with Siegfried in Soul Caliber you have that, but not really anywhere else.

And all that really leaves us with (from Namco Bandai) is Pac-Man, who as we know is easily the biggest and most well-known character to not be in smash.

However, I'd love Simon Belmont and Maxwell and Layton and Bomberman and Mega Man. If we could have all of those, I'd do unsightly things to my pants as long as we get K. Rool and Takamaru as well.

I'd love all of those 3rd party characters, too, plus Pac-Man (although I don't know Professor Layton enough to want him). I'd also love it if Nintendo got the rights to the old Rare franchises so maybe we could get Joanna Dark, Conker, Banjo, and perhaps even a Killer Instinct character playable in smash.

And as long as we get the big dogs (Ridley, K. Rool, Mewtwo, and perhaps characters like Shulk, Dixie Kong, Mega Man, and Little Mac), the fan base will be pleased.

I've got no problem with them, but yeah. I just don't expect so many.

I think 5 3rd party characters is the most we'll get in these 2 games (sans if we get a few DLC characters, which I doubt), but realistically we'll probably get only 3 or 4, both of which are numbers I am okay with (especially if Snake and Sonic return, which they ought to).

 

[8-peacock-8]

So.....how would you guys react if Mega man and Chun Li got in but we didn't get Saaaaawwwwwnack back?

 

[FlareHabanero]

Roy ain't third party, and so far, Snake is the least well-known 3rd party playable character in smash, and he isn't exactly an unknown character to gamers.

Congratulations, you missed the bloody point.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Where's Ryu?

 

[Johnknight1]

Congratulations, you missed the bloody point.

No, I changed the point.

So.....how would you guys react if Mega man and Chun Li got in but we didn't get Saaaaawwwwwnack back?

Who on God's green Earth that we turned brown wants Chun Li in freaking smash=???

 

[8-peacock-8]

Where's Ryu?

He died.

No, I changed the point.

Who on God's green Earth that we turned brown wants Chun Li in freaking smash=???

People who don't want Ryu but want an SF rep for some reason.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Where's Ryu?

You mean this Ryu?

Spoiler

 

[Shorts]

Just pushed my lip piercings back through after having them out for 24 hours. Youchies.

#manly #leOUCH #bloodforbeauty

 

[Johnknight1]

People who don't want Ryu but want an SF rep for some reason.

Umm... freaking Guile (aka my avatar dude) would be nice... and if you lost to him, you'd have to go home and be a family man!!!

Blanka and Dhalsim would also make for nice and unique characters that will never happen.

 

[Frostwraith]

Street Fighter? M. Bison would be interesting.

For us, the day Bison graced his presence in Smash Bros. would be the most important day of our lives... but for him, it would be Tuesday.

 

[8-peacock-8]

I do see a lot more support for Chun Li in all honesty.

 

[Big-Cat]

How about some yummy Juri?

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Chun Li? That man woman with the big thighs? I'd order Sigma and Akuma to destroy the Capcom headquaters. Then we will celebrate by dancing around Ono and the other employee's decapitated heads. It would be so delicious. * snickers like Bison*

I agree with you, Kuma. Koreans over Chinese.

 

[lobotheduck21]

well, if mega gets in, can't wait to see where all the 3rd party support goes
actually it will end up going to cloud so I take that back

and I'll take my sun goddess, my cherry knight, or mr. viewtiful before a SF character (unless it's a villain)

 

[FlareHabanero]

Speaking of Breath of Fire for a second, but I'm kind of surprised none of the incarnations of Ryu appeared in a vs. Capcom game yet. A tad odd, but a tad understandable considering Breath of Fire is a pretty niche series.

 

[Johnknight1]

well, if mega gets in, can't wait to see where all the 3rd party support goes

I think we'll see a lot of Pac-Man support, a rising number of Professor Layton fans, and a whole lot of randoms other than that.

actually it will end up going to cloud so I take that back

IGN: TO HELL WITH WARIO AND MR. GAME AND WATCH, GIVE US CLOUD SO HE CAN CRY AND BE A BABY IN SMASH BROTHERS, TOO!!!

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Speaking of Breath of Fire for a second, but I'm kind of surprised none of the incarnations of Ryu appeared in a vs. Capcom game yet. A tad odd, but a tad understandable considering Breath of Fire is a pretty niche series.

To be fair, it went downhill since the existence of Breath of Fire IV and Dragon Quarter (The BoF equivalent of Sonic 06 ).

 

[Johnknight1]

Street Fighter? M. Bison would be interesting.

For us, the day Bison graced his presence in Smash Bros. would be the most important day of our lives... but for him, it would be Tuesday.

M. Bison would be another great choice, too. I'm surprised I didn't think of one of the only other Street Fighter characters I like that isn't a Ryu clone.

Koreans over Chinese.

If you are talking women, then you are dead wrong in so many ways.

 

[Curious Villager]

So next to Megaman, is Pacman the next most supported third party newcomer? I wonder who the fans would generally support once Megaman is in as another third party newcomer now that Lobotheduck mentions it. I hope Layton would be close to next in line... :x