Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[Deleted member]

I didn't really find a problem with the ledges. If anything, that's the one thing that ticked me off about Melee: I could be right next to a ledge, but I wouldn't grab it because I'm facing the wrong way. Especially annoying on Battlefield and Final Destination.

Then get better at the game dude.

Think about it.

Can YOU grab a ledge while facing away from it?

inb4 someone lists all the things you can do in Smash that can't be done irl.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

I just think of it as your character turning in midair to grab the ledge, not reaching backwards and grabbing the ledge and then flipping around. Perhaps that is still ridiculous but yeah.

 

[Johnknight1]

Does anyone else feel like Smash 4 is going to suck as in "it's not like Melee" type of suckiness-ess?
Do you think it's going to be more like Brawl or Melee mechanics/gameplay-wise?

It can't be worse than Brawl, because it's not going to be made by a C/D-grade developer, and instead, if made by an A-grade developer who has worked on this kind of game before. Hopefully Namco Bandai does what Game Arts (awful developer IMO) didn't: Make the game fun for everyone regardless of their skill level or how good they are at the game.

Make it to where offense wins, we can get epic KO's at all levels of play (I'm sorry, but the lack of spikes and gimps in Brawl against opponents who know how to play is freaking boring; the same goes with the lack of awesome and technical combos), gets rid of stupid crap like random tripping, not being able to dash dance, Brawl's garbage balance, and stupid low item caps (seriously, if I can't have at least 16 Assist Trophy characters on the stage at once in Smash WiiU, I'll be disappoint), and makes the game able to be played competitive to where it's amazing and interest instead of making it lame, unbalanced, and boring to watch and play competitively (competitive Brawl is mostly a very sorry thing IMO).

Also, we will get fully fleshed out story modes stuff, a game with great online (like SCV has), a game NOT restricted by outdated software, and inevitably a very good smash bros game. If the game is truly what I think it will be, then I don't care about comparing it to Melee, because it will be a great game in its' own right.

As far as Game Arts goes, they tried to make it SOOO different from Melee that they made the game worse. Don't worry about how these two games compare to previous smash bros games Namco Bandai; worry about whether or not we'll want to put these two games in our consoles 10 years from now and still play them, regardless of our skill level with a game that never feels restrictive. With Melee as a casual player trying to get "good," I felt the skill level cap was infinite. With Brawl, I found the "skill level cap" was very low, which was a huge turn off.

Oh, and can we get some more options=??? You know, an on/off switch for each Pokéball Pokémon and Assist Trophy character, the ability to change the frequency of which item appears individually, making "Special Mode" have it to where you can select everything (I want to have metal and be able to have the bunny hood on at the same time!!!), allowing all the Melee (esk) single player modes playable up to the maximum number of players (story mode with up to 4 players? YES!!!), allow us to play any mode online (and make us want to by giving us more sticker loot), allow us to use our sticker character boosts online, the ability to make alternate color outfits for characters, the ability to have voice chat, the ability to choose a random game mode search option for a quick search online game, allow two or more Final Smashes to be used at once, and oh, the ability to import songs and stages into the game!

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

It can't be worse than Brawl, because it's not going to be made by a C/D-grade developer, and instead, if made by an A-grade developer who has worked on this kind of game before.

Hopefully Namco Bandai does what Game Arts (awful developer IMO) didn't: Make the game fun for everyone. Make it to where offense wins, we can get epic KO's at all levels of play (I'm sorry, but the lack of spikes in Brawl was freaking boring), gets ride of stupid crap like random tripping and Brawl's garbage balance, and makes the game able to be played competitive to where it's amazing and interest instead of making it lame, unbalanced, and boring to watch and play competitively (competitive Brawl is mostly a very sorry thing IMO).

Also, we will get fully fleshed out story modes stuff, a game with great online (like SCV has), a game NOT restricted by outdated software, and inevitably a very good smash bros game. If the game is truly what I think it will be, then I don't care about comparing it to Melee, because it will be a great game in its' own right.

As far as Game Arts goes, they tried to make it SOOO different from Melee that they made the game worse. Don't worry about how these two games compare to previous smash bros games Namco Bandai; worry about whether or not we'll want to put these two games in our consoles 10 years from now and still play them, regardless of our skill level with a game that never feels restrictive. With Melee as a casual player trying to get "good," I felt the skill level cap was infinite. With Brawl, I found the "skill level cap" was very low, which was a huge turn off.

Wasn't Sakurai behind the decisions on Brawl what you deem was made by Game Art though Johnny? Because I'm sorta feeling he might try bringing those things back due keeping to his own vision of what Smash Bros should be about in his eyes.

 

[Johnknight1]

Wasn't Sakurai behind the decisions on Brawl what you deem was made by Game Art though Johnny? Because I'm sorta feeling he might try bringing those things back due keeping to his own vision of what Smash Bros should be about in his eyes.

I think Sakurai was behind some things, but I think Game Art's limited knowledge of the console, of video games, of how to make a fighting game, and how to create all the extra content. Another problem was the Wii is basically the same technology as the GameCube, so there was very little processing or technological improves, and of course the Wii's online sucks for the most part.

With Namco Bandai and the WiiU, the handcuffs are off. We got a studio that makes two of the best fighting game franchises ever (Soul Calibur and Tekken). They know how to add tons of content. They know how to make games on the WiiU. They have experience with fighting games (they even made Outfoxies, the first platformer-esk fighting game with... A LOT of the staff of HAL LABORATORIES [the Smash 64 and Melee developer]), they know how to balance games, and they know how to please their fans.

As for Sakurai, a lot of decisions he made were bad, but honestly, I think he had to hold himself back because of the Brawl development team just being totally disjointed, under-qualified, and probably over-reliant on him. I understand him removing things like L-cancelling and wavedashing, but freaking making the game as stale as it is offensively I don't think was his intent at all. It seemed like Sakurai said "let's stick with making this game primarily for non-competitive gamers"" and Game Arts went "durh! Casuals Only!" Hence why the game competitively is about as boring and tedious as cricket.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I think Sakurai was behind some things, but I think Game Art's limited knowledge of the console, of video games, of how to make a fighting game, and how to create all the extra content. Another problem was the Wii is basically the same technology as the GameCube, so there was very little processing or technological improves, and of course the Wii's online sucks for the most part.

With Namco Bandai and the WiiU, the handcuffs are off. We got a studio that makes two of the best fighting game franchises ever (Soul Calibur and Tekken). They know how to add tons of content. They know how to make games on the WiiU. They have experience with fighting games (they even made Outfoxies, the first platformer-esk fighting game with... A LOT of the staff of HAL LABORATORIES [the Smash 64 and Melee developer]), they know how to balance games, and they know how to please their fans.

As for Sakurai, a lot of decisions he made were bad, but honestly, I think he had to hold himself back because of the Brawl development team just being totally disjointed, under-qualified, and probably over-reliant on him. I understand him removing things like L-cancelling and wavedashing, but freaking making the game as stale as it is offensively I don't think was his intent at all. It seemed like Sakurai said "let's stick with making this game primarily for non-competitive gamers"" and Game Arts went "durh! Casuals Only!" Hence why the game competitively is about as boring and tedious as cricket.

Great points there. Almost started to give me faith back on this game actually becoming potentially reasonable deep fighter again like Melee or P:M were. Hopefully.

Though I don't really think Wii's technology was in par of GCs though...

 

[Johnknight1]

Great points there. Almost started to give me faith back on this game actually becoming potentially reasonable deep fighter again like Melee or P:M were. Hopefully.

Not just deep, but how the game feels "limitless." That "limitless" feel of Melee IMO is what makes it the best smash game. It just feels like you could play that game forever and ever and there will still be tons of things for you to learn. You even feel that when you don't play the game competitively.

On the flip side, the lack of offense, offensive variety, and dimensions of offense in Brawl could be felt immediately after a few weeks with the game with me. After two weeks with the game I realized being "campy" was easily the quickest way to success. Sadly, it turns out stalling and minimally approaching your opponent is the best and most efficient way to win, as oppose to quality spacing, pressure, and well-timed aggression in previous smash iterations. Fortunately though, I think in that regard, we'll mostly go to the old ways. To quote 007: Skyfall, "sometimes the old ways are the best."

Though I don't really think Wii's technology was in par of GCs though...

The Wii is stronger than the GameCube, but not by a lot. The WiiU is about ten years/a decade/two generations worth of technological jumps in regard to technology, possibly including the online. It's got so much more processing power, graphics that blow the PS3 out of the water, and an online interface that looks like it's developing into something very special.

Actually, on wisdom teeth...I remember when I first got my x-ray back, my orthodontist told me that I'm not getting wisdom teeth; there's none showing (looks like there's a God after all). Advancement in evolution? I'm not sure in my case since I do have other health issues that might have accounted for that. But I'm still wondering why nonetheless.

Are you of Eastern European descent=??? Because a lot of Eastern European people don't have wisdom teeth (or an appendix even).

 

[Metal Overlord]

Yeah, I really want this game to be great in its own right and not constantly be compared to Melee and Brawl (probably won't happen though)

 

[Dark Phazon]

I dont understand...
Cant we just have BOTH?
Is it really that hard that forbidden...i mean myyy GARRRDDDDD for christ sake...cant we just have both?

The Reason why PeePz love melee is because it way fun to play casualy and competetivly!

Damn PeePz even said they enjoyed playing Melee casualy more than Brawl!

I mean how ****ed is that! You aint gotta be bill gates/steven hawkings/albert einstein to know that Melee was by far a better game than brawl in nearly every aspect...

Why dont they just take that comfort that freedom sky is the limit playstyle melee had and the kinda bonus featurea brawl had?

Cant we just have both? If this game ends up sucking on a level that Brawl did then...ima never forgive Sakurai ever i wilk forever hate his gut and i know i aint the only one...

#RealTalk !

 

[Johnknight1]

Brawl wasn't a bad game, it just is a terribly boring and stale competitive game. It's just the offense in that game was dead awful, and the impact of the loss of L/Z-cancelling, a lot of awesome Melee moves, and stuff like the Captain Falcon/Ganondorf down B infinite jump (which should have never been removed; hence why the two characters are crap) was huge. Literally the execution Game Arts did of all of Sakurai's changes made on the game competitively terrible.

But on the bright side, even if Smash WiiU and 3DS suck as competitive games, we can mod the hell out of them like Brawl. And even better, now we have experience at modding in our community, so we can mod these two games to endless perfection (at various things) regardless of how good either game is.

Hopefully Sakurai, Namco Bandai, and Nintendo see how much customizing games is influencing people to buy games, stay into games, and enjoy games (longer), and makes it easier to upload things like stages, alternate outfits, and above all, music (without replacing other songs PLEASE! INFINITE SONGS FTW!).

More SWAG:

Spoiler

I beat Super Mario World when I was four. FOUR! It was the first game I ever beat, and when I beat it, I thought it was the easiest game I ever played. I was so used to the previous 4 Mario games (Super Mario Bros 1, 2, 3, and the Lost Levels) being so hard, that Super Mario World came off as way too easy to me. Also, the original Metroid, and some NES Mega Man games.

I was four. That means four year old me was a far superior gamer than this Andrew, LMAO!

my username is basically just my initials i always thought they sounded cool.

I considered doing that since I LOVE the way my initials sound. "JCW" just sounds cool.

 

[Zinfandel]

I really hope Iwata shuts his yap more in this/these ND(s). His English is OK but painfully slow and he sometimes spends too much time talking about inane or minute stuff. Give us Reggie. We deserve Reggie.

I also hope they get Treasure involved in something - if Retro isn't doing Starfox, then Treasure is a pretty good fit for the series considering the similar perspective of the Sin & Punishment games.

Also, motherlovers just give us VC Gamecube games already. This is not rocket surgery.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Yeah, Brawl wasn't that bad lol. The biggest problem I had with it was that it didn't do anything to advance the series or innovate it

All it really did was add content. That said though, it's still fun to play with friends and it's a great entry point for people unfamiliar with Smash

 

[Johnknight1]

^^^ Brawl is pretty boring to watch and play at a competitive level. Don't get me wrong, most Brawl competitive players are super cool, but man, that game is just terribly boring to be around at the competitive level unless you play it casually (without mods of course). With Melee, you can play it as casually as a dude with hammers on very high or as competitively as the best in the world and it's still a fun and entertaining game to watch, play, and be around.

A lot of people think that I'm some huge metalhead though when they see my username, which is ironic lol because rock/metal is actually one of my least favorite overall genres of music (not that I dislike it, I just can't get into it at all; I do like some alternative rock bands though)

YOU SHOULD BE ONE THOUGH!!! The Metal Gods call you young Overlord. Accept this mere mortal, or the end result with be a Shame on the Night.

@Johnny boi

Dude, it's the same for me. My family is filled with crazy people, that's why I'll never try drugs.

Dude no, my family doesn't have any druggies (aside from one sect of my mom's side of the family), but man, that really made me not want to do drugs.

 

[Dark Phazon]

What makes you think that Sm4sh will be abled to be modded so easily as Brawl? You never know...

 

[Baskerville]

Nintendo have terrible security systems. I'm pretty sure somebody hacked the WiiU & 3DS already.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Nintendo have terrible security systems. I'm pretty sure somebody hacked the WiiU & 3DS already.

Yh but its improved alot none the less compared to the Wii & DS i say it could be a while probly long time after Smash 4.

im still waiting for a 3DS Flashcart...that hasent showed up yet?

 

[N3ON]

Smash 4 might be harder to hack than Brawl, but it'll happen eventually. The Smash fanbase is never satisfied.

 

[Johnknight1]

What makes you think that Sm4sh will be abled to be modded so easily as Brawl? You never know...

Nintendo have terrible security systems. I'm pretty sure somebody hacked the WiiU & 3DS already.

This. People hacked the WiiU to find the debut stuff about MGS5 and the new Yoshi game within 48 hours; we'll be able to hack Smash WiiU and 3DS to do stuff offline easily. If you don't play it online, they probably will never find out.

That and stopping hacks like texture hacks (minus nudity and stuff that messes with gameplay), music mods (minus "inappropriate" songs), and stage mods (minus mods that slow down the framerate or mess with gameplay) online or offline (especially offline) is stupid. If it's not inappropriate, and especially if it's in a situation where it is known it's a hack or mod, why should it be banned=???

I mean c'mon, how awesome would it to face a friend one and one and to play on one of their custom stages (an actually good stage builder would help)=???

Look at Valve's games (on the PC especially): All of those games are super easy to hack and mod, and those games make more money because of it. I never get why console game companies allowed gamers to do that as much or as easily as PC game developers do. It does miracles for a games' lifespan, sales, and popularity. Doom 1, Quake 1, and the original Counter-Strike are still huge because of that, and that is why those games will never die.

 

[Deleted member]

Nintendo have terrible security systems. I'm pretty sure somebody hacked the WiiU & 3DS already.

Someone was hacking the WiiU, but last I heard, they gave up on it. Said they didn't wanna keep hurting the industry.

I'm glad personally. However, I wish someone would do away with the stupid region lock on the 3DS.

Dude no, my family doesn't have any druggies (aside from one sect of my mom's side of the family), but man, that really made me not want to do drugs.

No one in my family is addicted to drugs thank God. I was actually referring to something else, but that's a story for some other time.

Still, I have my reasons for my straight edge lifestyle. That being said, I don't belittle those who drink or smoke weed. Everyone is free to enjoy life how they see fit.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Sorry off topic but i cant stand Galaxy 2...its sooo boring....how this game got 10/10 i dont even think god knows...

Ugh...im soo PISSED OFF that Majora keeps freezing!!! UGHHHH and **** Wii VC i aint using them Hideous pad that i dont even have..i have to buy...then buy Majora...when i already have it on GC...Sooo gay...

 

[Johnknight1]

Someone was hacking the WiiU, but last I heard, they gave up on it. Said they didn't wanna keep hurting the industry.

I don't care about hacking the WiiU (or 3DS), but rather, I do want to be able to mod Smash WiiU and 3DS. It would be so awesome to see a Project M-esk version of Smash WiiU or 3DS with that giant roster (especially if there was a way to ADD CHARACTERS!!!). It also would be funny, interesting, and ironic if we got like a Project M Smash 64/Brawl based mods for both games and all future smash games!

Modding IMO allows the game to have infinite content, things to do, and ways to play the game. It makes the game feel less constricted. I get that companies hate it when people do that to online games, but c'mon! Allowing it offline doesn't hurt anybody. More companies should support at least offline modding or have ways to mod it (within fine limits of course) IMO.

I'm glad personally. However, I wish someone would do away with the stupid region lock on the 3DS.

1. You are glad about what=???
2. Region-locking with anything is stupid, and quite frankly too expensive IMO.
3. I'm not entirely straight edge as I drink on occasion (because I like the taste and health benefits [it's good for my bad liver as long as I don't get intoxicated]). I can't get drunk anyways, otherwise my (awful) liver will fail, which means I'd kick the bucket!

 

[Deleted member]

This. People hacked the WiiU to find the debut stuff about MGS5 and the new Yoshi game within 48 hours; we'll be able to hack Smash WiiU and 3DS to do stuff offline easily. If you don't play it online, they probably will never find out.

That and stopping hacks like texture hacks (minus nudity and stuff that messes with gameplay), music mods (minus "inappropriate" songs), and stage mods (minus mods that slow down the framerate or mess with gameplay) online or offline (especially offline) is stupid. If it's not inappropriate, and especially if it's in a situation where it is known it's a hack or mod, why should it be banned=???

I mean c'mon, how awesome would it to face a friend one and one and to play on one of their custom stages (an actually good stage builder would help)=???

Look at Valve's games (on the PC especially): All of those games are super easy to hack and mod, and those games make more money because of it. I never get why console game companies allowed gamers to do that as much or as easily as PC game developers do. It does miracles for a games' lifespan, sales, and popularity. Doom 1, Quake 1, and the original Counter-Strike are still huge because of that, and that is why those games will never die.

I don't think you can have mods that work for everyone unless it was on some sort of cloud server. As long as the online in gaming is as it is now, mods will only be visible by you.

Also, the nude mods in Smash are ridiculously stupid... I mean, there's low, and there's that. This is coming from the guy who moded Skyrim to make all the girls look moe.


EDIT:
on your latest quote.

1.Glad the WiiU hasn't been completely hacked as that opens the door to piracy.
2.Region locking has a reason, though I agree that it's very jarring.

Anyway, I agree with what you're saying about modding, I feel the same way about things. I'm sure we'll see Smash 4 eventually get mods and hacks for it as well.

 

[Johnknight1]

Yeah the piracy part I get not wanting. However, changing the console layout would be pretty cool. I think it'd be nice if in the Big 3 let us have the layout codes and allow us to customize it and even share it (with some obvious censorship for stupid stuff). That'd be sweet.

As for region-locking, I just think worldwide releases is the way to go. However, the reason that isn't happening is because there's no international ratings board, and because some countries like their (totalitarian/communist) censorship. The ERSB IMO does a great job, and it would be awesome if they were an international governing rating board group. That would allow easy worldwide releases.

I don't think you can have mods that work for everyone unless it was on some sort of cloud server. As long as the online in gaming is as it is now, mods will only be visible by you.

Well if someone mods Brawl online, you literally play their mod. I stopped playing Brawl online, but I specifically remember playing Brawl Minus, Brawl Plus, Balanced Brawl, and Project M 2.0 when I didn't have any of those downloaded (in random matches). I'm not sure how Smash WiiU and 3DS' online will work, but it could be different from that.

Also, the nude mods in Smash are ridiculously stupid... I mean, there's low, and there's that. This is coming from the guy who moded Skyrim to make all the girls look moe.

Yeah, the nudity mods are stupid. That was mostly what I was referring to. If you want to do that, fine, you have a right to IMO, but keep it freaking offline or online only with friends who know what's coming. And if you go online with that (with users who don't know what's coming), you should be banned from using the WiiU's online forever. But seriously, what's the point of playing with nude models anyways=??? You see them naked and how they move naked. Get over it. If you're into that kind of stuff, keep it to yourself and whoever else you know approves of it. Otherwise, you are clearly violating people's rights IMO.

I also think things that adding songs with explicit lyrics, textures and stages that cause frame rate issues, and gameplay mods (with unknowing users, specifically on random matches) should be punished/warned/banned (depending on the severity of course) and enforced by whoever monitors the online.

 

[Deleted member]

Well if someone mods Brawl online, you literally play their mod. I stopped playing Brawl online, but I specifically remember playing Brawl Minus, Brawl Plus, Balanced Brawl, and Project M 2.0 when I didn't have any of those downloaded (in random matches). I'm not sure how Smash WiiU and 3DS' online will work, but it could be different from that.

Yeah, the nudity mods are stupid. That was mostly what I was referring to. If you want to do that, fine, you have a right to IMO, but keep it freaking offline or online only with friends who know what's coming. And if you go online with that (with users who don't know what's coming), you should be banned from using the WiiU's online forever. But seriously, what's the point of playing with nude models anyways=??? You see them naked and how they move naked. Get over it. If you're into that kind of stuff, keep it to yourself and whoever else you know approves of it. Otherwise, you are clearly violating people's rights IMO.

I also think things that adding songs with explicit lyrics, textures and stages that cause frame rate issues, and gameplay mods (with unknowing users, specifically on random matches) should be banned and enforced by whoever monitors the online.

Wait a second... When you get online with a mod you play someone else's mod? You sure about that? Because if it's a gameplay mod, it's crashed my game. And if it's a texture mod, we'll I've never seen someone else's textures when playing online.


@Phazon

I didn't like Galaxy 2 either dude.

Go play something else I'd say.

May I recommend Muramasa (which is a bit repetitive too, but the art makes up for it), or NMH2?

 

[Johnknight1]

I really hope Iwata shuts his yap more in this/these ND(s). His English is OK but painfully slow and he sometimes spends too much time talking about inane or minute stuff. Give us Reggie. We deserve Reggie.

Agreed. Reggie is GOD!!! (that or just give Iwata a freaking closed captions translation; the same goes with Reggie for non-English languages)

Also, motherlovers just give us VC Gamecube games already. This is not rocket surgery.

I think they got enough things to "win us over" at this E3 and Nintendo Direct. They should save that for a rainy day, or perhaps once they have an idea as to what GameCube games they'll release on the Virtual Console first. After all, just announcing it doesn't do anything, since everyone already knows they'll be doing it.

Wait a second... When you get online with a mod you play someone else's mod? You sure about that? Because if it's a gameplay mod, it's crashed my game. And if it's a texture mod, we'll I've never seen someone else's textures when playing online.

Well it depends on the mod of course. If let's say you do the "quick match" option and the person who has a mod selects a stage and their stage wins the "pick," their mod stuff often gets loaded, and depending on the online-based coding of the mod, you can see it/play with it. This has happened to me a plethora of times back in like 2008-2010 when I played Brawl online on a regular basis.

Texture hacks are usually the rarest to be able to see for whatever reason.

 

[---]

I'm a Brawl guy so for the most part so I'm just hoping the game will be as easy to pick up and play like Brawl was, I also liked the floaty gameplay as it felt less restricting to me. However, after going back and playing Melee, I would like to see the speed and hitstun increased a tad. So I guess I'm in the "why not both" department.

Tripping doesn't bother me, and I can kinda sympathize with Sakurai a tad (competitive Melee is pretty **** intimidating), so I wouldn't be butthurt if it returned, but I do think the better option would be to remove it.

I do think Melee is the better game overall, but not for gameplay, more for that it took the larger step in progression of the series than Brawl.

Smash 4 might be harder to hack than Brawl, but it'll happen eventually. The Smash fanbase is never satisfied.

What's the point of getting a new game if we're just going to mod it later on? I can understand the fighting game ideology of striving towards perfect balance, but as it's something that no one will ever be able to accomplish unless everything was ditto matches, so it does bug me when we let that take over and make us arrogant/have a lack of appreciation for getting a new game and the hardwork of the developer.

It's basically a mix of morals, that I don't want to hurt my Wii, and that I like Brawl better anyway, that I'll never try Project M (though I do think the new moveset ideas are neat).

 

[Holder of the Heel]

I actually enjoyed Galaxy 2. Not sure if I liked it more than the first but I still adored it. I also enjoy listening to Iwata because its funny to listen to him articulate his English sentences... We should have both him and Reggie, it'd be lacking without either of them for me.

What's the point of getting a new game if we're just going to mod it later on? I can understand the fighting game ideology of striving towards perfect balance, but as it's something that no one will ever be able to accomplish unless everything was ditto matches, so it does bug me when we let that take over and make us arrogant/have a lack of appreciation for getting a new game and the hardwork of the developer.


It's basically a mix of morals, that I don't want to hurt my Wii, and that I like Brawl better anyway, that I'll never try Project M (though I do think the new moveset ideas are neat).

I'm rather "pure-blooded" with the games in that I'd rather have fun with and potentially master the original. Anything not "official", altered in any way, loses its appeal inherently to me unfortunately.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Wait a second... When you get online with a mod you play someone else's mod? You sure about that? Because if it's a gameplay mod, it's crashed my game. And if it's a texture mod, we'll I've never seen someone else's textures when playing online.


@Phazon

I didn't like Galaxy 2 either dude.

Go play something else I'd say.

May I recommend Muramasa (which is a bit repetitive too, but the art makes up for it), or NMH2?

I only have 2 Wii games..

Metroid Prime Trilogy - finished 1 & 2 but 3 doesnt work...(-_-)

& Galaxy poo i mean 2 sorry....
Ima see if i can get Twilight for GC.

 

[Baskerville]

I never cared about P:M, the movesets and stages are great but everything else is just... eh

 

[---]

I'm rather "pure-blooded" with the games in that I'd rather have fun with and potentially master the original. Anything not "official", altered in any way, loses its appeal inherently to me unfortunately.

Same here. Hypocritically though, I'm fine with official patches.

For me it's mostly a mixed issue more than anything. Some things I'm cool with (music/skin/camera mods), others I'm not (like PM). I do think, however, that Sakurai got a lot of unneeded heat with Brawl, as it was more the Wii hardware rather than himself that prevented patches.

 

[N3ON]

What's the point of getting a new game if we're just going to mod it later on? I can understand the fighting game ideology of striving towards perfect balance, but as it's something that no one will ever be able to accomplish unless everything was ditto matches, so it does bug me when we let that take over and make us arrogant/have a lack of appreciation for getting a new game and the hardwork of the developer.

It's basically a mix of morals, that I don't want to hurt my Wii, and that I like Brawl better anyway, that I'll never try Project M (though I do think the new moveset ideas are neat).

I can see both sides of the argument, but I tend to agree with you. Of course, I'm not a very competitive Smasher, so I don't focus on the technical aspects or the minute details as much as others. I found Brawl fun, and didn't see the personal need to change it, so I've left my Wii unhacked, and I'm perfectly content. I have downloaded Project M, but that was solely to play on Fourside and Hyrule Castle with the cast of Brawl. I adapt to the game, I don't change the game to adapt to what I want.

But I can't deny that there are flaws with Brawl, so, as a successor to Melee, and with a fanbase as competitive and focused as Smash, I can see why they would want to change it them. However I was really referring to every aspect of Smash that people were never satisfied with. Didn't get a character you wanted? Hack them in. Don't like a mechanic? Change it through hacks. I wouldn't do it, and it is disrespectful, but as it might be the only way to ever play as... I dunno, like Geno, or... Sora or something, I can understand why some people do it on that level. Even those unfamiliar with Brawl hacks still complain about Brawl, sometimes about legitimate flaws, but even if just because their favourite character didn't make it, and people used to complain about Melee as well, so... even with SSB4, they'll never be satisfied.

 

[Johnknight1]

Tripping doesn't bother me, and I can kinda sympathize with Sakurai a tad (competitive Melee is pretty **** intimidating), so I wouldn't be butthurt if it returned, but I do think the better option would be to remove it.

I want tripping to return, but not random tripping. Tripping as the result of a move (or even an action) is an acceptable proposition. I mean, how valuable would Diddy Kong's banana peels be if they didn't cause tripping=??? Random tripping, on the flip end, is the most unwanted and unneeded detail ever, and nobody enjoyed it. It literally made the game worse for no articulate reason ever.

What's the point of getting a new game if we're just going to mod it later on? I can understand the fighting game ideology of striving towards perfect balance, but as it's something that no one will ever be able to accomplish unless everything was ditto matches, so it does bug me when we let that take over and make us arrogant/have a lack of appreciation for getting a new game and the hardwork of the developer.

I think modding games is cool. Valve has been open to modders for their game, and they've gotten some fantastic character models, stages, game modes, objectives, and ideas from it. Heck, Counter-Strike was a mod, and it's made them hundreds of millions of dollars. Adding content should be what the developer wants, because it adds stuff not in the game, and really makes people play games longer.

No really, without Project M or any Brawl-gameplay mod, Brawl is a worthless game to me. I don't enjoy the gameplay, the online is freaking slow as can be, all of the "single-player" modes are inferior to Melee and Smash 64, Brawl doesn't entertain me, it literally is mentally painful to play competitively, and I enjoy Smash 64, Melee, and dozens of other fighting games and party games from a casual angle more.

I probably would have sold the game if not for mods, and I probably wouldn't cared much for any smash sequels. Because Project M and other Brawl gameplay mods exist, I still play and love that game to death, and I still care about Smash Bros sequels because of that. The idea of modding these games even if it has the perfect roster and roster balance, stage choices, item choices and balance, music, online, graphics, and processing is awesome.

Seriously, I cannot tell you the joy something as simple as my Banjo texture hack over a Mario outfit brings me. It like it somewhat fulfills a dream for me I wouldn't otherwise experience, and how it makes the sorrow that Banjo will never be in Smash go away. The no Ridley/Mega Man/K. Rool pain will go away when they're confirmed.

 

[Deleted member]

What's the point of getting a new game if we're just going to mod it later on? I can understand the fighting game ideology of striving towards perfect balance, but as it's something that no one will ever be able to accomplish unless everything was ditto matches, so it does bug me when we let that take over and make us arrogant/have a lack of appreciation for getting a new game and the hardwork of the developer.

It's basically a mix of morals, that I don't want to hurt my Wii, and that I like Brawl better anyway, that I'll never try Project M (though I do think the new moveset ideas are neat).

Let me put it to you this way.

You ever play a game that feels unfinished or that just has potential but doesn't harness it?

Mods make that work. Sometimes devs come up with great ideas, and those ideas spark creativity in the community.

Half-Life 2 for example brought about the creation of CounterStrike, Team Fortress and Gary's Mod because Valve gave the players the opportunity to modify the source code and create their own ideas from it. Devs aren't Gods, they are people just like you and me, and like you and me, they are simply creating programs for you to play, you can come up with ideas just as good as theirs with the right amount of inspiration and effort.

And well, "the point" I suppose would be the fact that it basically extends the life of a game far beyond it's original intend value. Look at Skyrim, entire quests have been modded into the game complete with their own worlds. And Bethesda, like Valve is proud of its modding community. This is why PC is the best console.

I don't really see anything wrong with modding games and how someone could be against it in any way, but hey whatever floats your boat.

Oh, and you can play P:M without modding your Wii.

 

[---]

But I can't deny that there are flaws with Brawl, so, as a successor to Melee, and with a fanbase as competitive and focused as Smash, I can see why they would want to change it them. However I was really referring to every aspect of Smash that people were never satisfied with. Didn't get a character you wanted? Hack them in. Don't like a mechanic? Change it through hacks. It is disrespectful, but as it might be the only way to ever play as... I dunno, like Geno, or... Sora or something, I can understand why some people do it on that level. Even those unfamiliar with Brawl hacks still complain about Brawl, somtimes about legitimate flaws, but even if just because their favourite character didn't make it, and people used to complain about Melee as well, so... even with SSB4, they'll never be satisfied.

I can understand some of the motives for modding, as Sakurai was unable to do patches due the Wii hardware, so forgive me if I started to sound completely anti-mod.

What really bugs me is that I've seen a lot of hate towards Sakurai and vanilla Brawl within the modding and Project M forums, but honestly that leads into an even greater and honestly dumber issue that I would prefer not to get into.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Same here. Hypocritically though, I'm fine with official patches.

For me it's mostly a mixed issue more than anything. Some things I'm cool with (music/skin/camera mods), others I'm not (like PM). I do think, however, that Sakurai got a lot of unneeded heat with Brawl, as it was more the Wii hardware rather than himself that prevented patches.

Nah, that's not hypocritical, those are still official updates by the people who made the thing to begin with. It's still pure-blooded.

But yeah, N3ON and you pretty much describe the sensible view on the subject. If people want to make some personal adjustments to the game and ruin the purity (damn mudbloods) of the characters then they can do so. Though, music, stages, and "Geno" hacks are neat, that doesn't bother me so much. Those are basically like personal additions more than anything.

 

[Johnknight1]

Mods allow so much awesome stuff to be made and keep people coming back guys. If you're into PC games, just check out what mods have done for games like Quake, Doom, Counter-Strike (that game is actually a Half-Life mod), Team Fortress (which was originally a Quake mod), Half-Life, Left 4 Dead, many Grand Theft Auto titles, numerous Elder Scrolls games, etc. etc. etc. It's a big reason why PC gaming is still alive.

Also, why don't you guys want Reggie doing the American/English Nintendo Direct=??? Reggie's body is ready, he's about kicking a** and making games, and he's got that whole strut going. Also, he's not afraid of the Wii(U) Fit (Plus?) Scale!

I'm a Brawl guy so for the most part so I'm just hoping the game will be as easy to pick up and play like Brawl was, I also liked the floaty gameplay as it felt less restricting to me. However, after going back and playing Melee, I would like to see the speed and hitstun increased a tad. So I guess I'm in the "why not both" department.

You see, I agree with you that I like the floatiness, but I'd rather it be more like Smash 64. I also feel like Brawl was definitely easier to jump into than Melee, even though Melee was fairly easy to jump into. I believe a lot of that can be solved just in how the way the "How to Play" aspect is presented to players.

 

[Baskerville]

I can understand some of the motives for modding, as Sakurai was unable to do patches due the Wii hardware, so forgive me if I started to sound completely anti-mod.

What really bugs me is that I've seen a lot of hate towards Sakurai and vanilla Brawl within the modding and Project M forums, but honestly that leads into an even greater and honestly dumber issue that I would prefer not to get into.

Hence why I tend to stay away from the P:M community. I find some of them just downright intolerable.

 

[Shorts]

Hacks are whatever. I don't find them disrespectful in the slightest. It's sort of like saying people who rework older pieces of art, or someone who writes fanfics based off of TV/Movies/Books are being disrespectful. They're really just expressing themselves through a medium, even if it's one that's not necessarily "their own". And, like fanfics and new age interps, some hacks are bad, but some are really, really good.

And, you simply don't have to even look at them if you don't want to, let alone play with them. So you guys shouldn't be bothered by it really.

 

[Deleted member]

I guess it should also be said that modding also allows those who want to get into game design a chance to get their feet wet, and learn and practice useful skills.

I like this scenario of a community working together to make something good for everyone, than a view of some guys far away from you, making a product for you to consume as is.

I mean, there are pros and cons to both sides, but that's honestly a can of worms I'd rather not open.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

That's an interesting way to look at it ManlySpirit.