Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[---]

Hence why I tend to stay away from the P:M community. I find some of them just downright intolerable.

I mean, there are pros and cons to both sides, but that's honestly a can of worms I'd rather not open.

Same here.

And just to clear some things up, it's more of the fact that I like regular Brawl better rather than the morals of it all that keep me from trying PM (that's not to say I won't some day). I'm not going to let a small group of fanboys completely ruin my enjoyment of the series in general with their non-stop trash talk, though it can be REALLY tough at times like FalchionX7 said.

 

[Banjodorf]

I'm one of those that really enjoys the mechanics side of P:M a great deal. (And the assloads of fanservice, but let's be honest that's the best part anyway.) I love the amount of work the team as put into it. Some members of the community can be...unpleasant, but that's true of any community. While there's more
X > Brawl than there is the opposite, it still exists, and those members are no less at eachother's throats.

I think, nay demand that everybody should just get along.

 

[---]

You see, I agree with you that I like the floatiness, but I'd rather it be more like Smash 64.

Haven't really compared 64 to Melee/Brawl all that much so I'll have to see. Personally I always thought the floatiness was because of the larger stage sizes.

Honestly I'd rather see a 64 2.0 rather than Melee/Brawl 2.0.

I also feel like Brawl was definitely easier to jump into than Melee, even though Melee was fairly easy to jump into.

Not much to say here since I agree. Honestly though, competitive Melee really is intimidating just to watch in action, so that's one of the main reasons I don't want to see another Melee, that and the trash talking within it's community doesn't help either. Got anything Johnknight-ish here to say to calm my worries?

I believe a lot of that can be solved just in how the way the "How to Play" aspect is presented to players.

Gameplay is still a huge part, so I do half agree. Personally I'm hoping that we get an expansive "How to Play" menu like we did in Uprising, as well as an expanded training mode coming from Namco Fighters.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

I think, nay demand that everybody should just get along.

stfu and don't tell me what to do BanjoDORK!

I'm kidding please forgive me!

But yeah your demands will fall on deaf ears... er, blind eyes. But for the most part everyone here is amiable so let's just keep it within the family. Family is all.

And no one can ever leave the family. Ever.

 

[Johnknight1]

What really bugs me is that I've seen a lot of hate towards Sakurai and vanilla Brawl within the modding and Project M forums, but honestly that leads into an even greater and honestly dumber issue that I would prefer not to get into.

When I first started playing Brawl competitively, most of the people I faced were Melee-esk in their aggression. It was fairly fun and entertaining, and although IMO nowhere near as good as Melee, it was a new game I felt I could be really good at, as I was beating some fairly high level Bay Area opponents.

However, once everyone starting running away from their opponents and attacking as their "offense" or waited for their opponent to move, I didn't make the adjustment, and I went from being able to hang with the best to being creamed by the worst of competitive players. And when I made the adjustment and won a few matches, it made me not enjoy the game, and it was even worse than lose.

While I don't agree with their disdain for Sakurai (I blame Game Arts, Iwata, and the Wii more so), it's not hard to see where they're coming from considering their history with the game, especially since I went through the same thing.

I had everything I wanted: A new Smash game on a new console, a sequel to my favorite game ever, my most wanted stage (Delfino Plaza) being tournament legal and a great counter-pick for me, my favorite smash stage ever (Rainbow Cruise) being tournament legal and a great counter-pick for me, my favorite video game character ever being my favorite and best character (Toon Link) who was actually tournament viable and fairly underrated, and a huge (local) competitive community, but the game just wasn't fun competitively (once people realized the best [and cheapest] way to play it competitively to win).

Like many of these people you're demonizing, I spend hundreds of hours hyping the game, playing the game, mastering the game (I learned over 6 dozen brand new advanced techniques; that's not counting the techniques from Smash 64 and Melee) only to have it be a terrible competitive game. It was boring, lackluster, tedious, and nowhere near deep at the competitive level, as a player, a spectator, and a "fan."

Once you realize that most of those people went through that and especially once you experience that, you'll sympathize with them. It feels like something you worked towards was stolen from you, but actually, you realize it was a lie. The game you were promised from the demos was a lie.

All that cool stuff in the demo was gone. The combos, the incredible balance, characters like Bowser, Mario, and Pit having awesome moves, the sweet finishes and spikes, the game being fun at any level of play, and the new techniques were all removed from a demo 3 months ago. And the funny thing is, they made the game worse for casuals, too. Random tripping was much more rare, and they might have actually added Mewtwo in that time. But no, they had to make the game less enjoyable and competitively centered around stalling and camping to where most of the potential competitive community turned away from the game (competitively and casually).

That right there is the biggest reason I think Brawl deserves all the hate it gets, and why we all hate it. We all didn't just forget all that demo stuff; we remember it. After that happened to me, I considered selling my copy of Brawl and never buying a new Smash Bros. game again. I felt cheated out of my time. But then when I discovered good mods at a Melee tournament after I dropped Brawl competitively (Brawl Plus and Balanced Brawl), and I changed my mind. That's where I recaptured much of my hype for new smash bros games, and probably why I still care about Smash Bros sequels.

Oh and part of that demo removal stuff and the general bad decisions was probably partially Sakurai's fault. Still, most of the Project M, Smash 64, and Melee crowd still give credit to Sakurai for making the series, and for making Smash 64 and Melee into great (competitive games), but their dislike of his moves with Brawl are understandable, although sometimes exaggerated.

And quite frankly, sometimes hating on that game mutually is a way of bonding (your experiences) because of these experiences I just mentioned me and thousands of other competitive smashers went through.

Sorry for the long post guys, but it needed to be said. And because of all this crap, Brawl really freaking annoys me. And we didn't even get a playable Ridley!

 

[Dark Phazon]

When I first started playing Brawl competitively, most of the people I faced were Melee-esk in their aggression. It was fairly fun and entertaining, and although IMO nowhere near as good as Melee, it was a new game I felt I could be really good at, as I was beating some fairly high level Bay Area opponents.

However, once everyone starting running away from their opponents and attacking as their "offense" or waited for their opponent to move, I didn't make the adjustment, and I went from being able to hang with the best to being creamed by the worst of competitive players. And when I made the adjustment and won a few matches, it made me not enjoy the game, and it was even worse than lose.

While I don't agree with their disdain for Sakurai (I blame Game Arts, Iwata, and the Wii more so), it's not hard to see where they're coming from considering their history with the game, especially since I went through the same thing.

I had everything I wanted: A new Smash game on a new console, a sequel to my favorite game ever, my most wanted stage (Delfino Plaza) being tournament legal and a great counter-pick for me, my favorite smash stage ever (Rainbow Cruise) being tournament legal and a great counter-pick for me, my favorite video game character ever being my favorite and best character (Toon Link) who was actually tournament viable and fairly underrated, and a huge (local) competitive community, but the game just wasn't fun competitively (once people realized the best [and cheapest] way to play it competitively to win).

Like many of these people you're demonizing, I spend hundreds of hours hyping the game, playing the game, mastering the game (I learned over 6 dozen brand new advanced techniques; that's not counting the techniques from Smash 64 and Melee) only to have it be a terrible competitive game. It was boring, lackluster, tedious, and nowhere near deep at the competitive level, as a player, a spectator, and a "fan."

Once you realize that most of those people went through that and especially once you experience that, you'll sympathize with them. It feels like something you worked towards was stolen from you, but actually, you realize it was a lie. The game you were promised from the demos was a lie.

All that cool stuff in the demo was gone. The combos, the incredible balance, characters like Bowser, Mario, and Pit having awesome moves, the sweet finishes and spikes, the game being fun at any level of play, and the new techniques were all removed from a demo 3 months ago. And the funny thing is, they made the game worse for casuals, too. Random tripping was much more rare, and they might have actually added Mewtwo in that time. But no, they had to make the game less enjoyable and competitively centered around stalling and camping to where most of the potential competitive community turned away from the game (competitively and casually).

That right there is the biggest reason I think Brawl deserves all the hate it gets, and why we all hate it. We all didn't just forget all that demo stuff; we remember it. After that happened to me, I considered selling my copy of Brawl and never buying a new Smash Bros. game again. I felt cheated out of my time. But then when I discovered good mods at a Melee tournament after I dropped Brawl competitively (Brawl Plus and Balanced Brawl), and I changed my mind. That's where I recaptured much of my hype for new smash bros games, and probably why I still care about Smash Bros sequels.

Oh and part of that demo removal stuff and the general bad decisions was probably partially Sakurai's fault. Still, most of the Project M, Smash 64, and Melee crowd still give credit to Sakurai for making the series, and for making Smash 64 and Melee into great (competitive games), but their dislike of his moves with Brawl are understandable, although sometimes exaggerated.

And quite frankly, sometimes hating on that game mutually is a way of bonding (your experiences) because of these experiences I just mentioned me and thousands of other competitive smashers went through.

Sorry for the long post guys, but it needed to be said. And because of all this crap, Brawl really freaking annoys me. And we didn't even get a playable Ridley!

Link me to a vid of this demo plz i have never seen it i need to see it!

Also one of the best posts i have ever seen i felt tour pain/fustration bro serious Real ****ing talk.

I will never forget the day i went and bought brawl....it was summer sitting at the back of a bus going home listening to ''Limb Bizkit - Build A Bridge'' read the whole instruction booklet on the bus like TWICE!

MAN I WAS SOOOOOOO HYPED!!!!! and as soon as i got home i had to go collect my little bro from school....(-_-) the school is only like 7 mins walk from my house but i WAS SOOOOOOO PISSED OFFF!!!!!!!

AHHHH man...seriously PeePz tryna bring tears to my eyes.....soo excited....sooo letdown....i plan on listening to the sane song when i rip off the plastic of Super Smash Bros. Corruption xD.......sigh.....

 

[Johnknight1]

Link me to a vid of this demo plz i have never seen it i need to see it!

I got a youtube playlist of every known demo video recorded and posted on the internet. And for the record, no one was allowed to record it, but people did.

You could find most (if not all) of the stuff at ---'s "Smash Directory" thread. Here's a link to the old demo thread (mostly on E For All), and lastly, here is what you want: My youtube playlist of everything I could find related to the Brawl demo(s), including over 3 dozen videos (notice: sadly many of videos not in my playlist have been taken down from youtube for various reasons; mostly because those accounts are closed).

It's worth noting that most of the stuff found related to the advanced techniques weren't found until the last two days, and L-cancelling was found very late at the E For All demo (either the last day or the end of the second to last day if my memory serves me correctly). If Eternal Phoenix Fire shows up, you should ask him about it: He actually played it. My old (now gone) pal Demoncaterpie played it, too, as did the best Melee Bowser ever, Sir Gimpyfish.

I guess it should also be said that modding also allows those who want to get into game design a chance to get their feet wet, and learn and practice useful skills.

I like this scenario of a community working together to make something good for everyone, than a view of some guys far away from you, making a product for you to consume as is.

I mean, there are pros and cons to both sides, but that's honestly a can of worms I'd rather not open.

The only cons are really the nudity stuff, infringing upon other people's rights online and making the online worse, but offline and online with specific groups in the know, I think there's only positives.

People add to the game, share their passion, and form the game how they want. Why anyone would want to restrict that beyond my previously mentioned parameters (and perhaps a few others that I probably forgot) is beyond me. All it does is add stuff to the game, not subtract it.

 

[~automatic]

The only cons are really the nudity stuff, infringing upon other people's rights online and making the online worse, but offline and online with specific groups in the know, I think there's only positives.

I remember a tournament final where someone thought having nude characters on the steaming setup was a good idea. It certainly didn't do the Smash community any help in the attempt to appear mature or decent to casuals or the fighting game crowd at large.

 

[---]

Large amount of text

Demonizing? That's an interesting choice of words.

I understand the differences between Melee and Brawl, and I do respect those with the opposite opinion as mine. My main issue stems from the lack of maturity and all the butthurt: the endless trash talking, genuine hate threads, the non-stop Melee vs Brawl threads, that we can't have a proper gameplay discussion threads, unwillingness to compromise, and taking opinion as fact.

Deserving or not, all the negativity is very discouraging and is doing more damage to my love of two awesome games more so than tripping or getting carpal tunnel from Wavedashing ever will. It is really quite sad that even after a little over 6 years that such division within the community still exists.

 

[Johnknight1]

I remember a tournament final where someone thought having nude characters on the steaming setup was a god idea. It certainly didn't do the Smash community any help in the attempt to appear mature or decent to casuals or the fighting game crowd at large.

Yeah, that's freaking stupid. If you got something like that, keep it to yourself or your group of friends who like that. Don't go showing it around. I mean you might as well go around exposing yourself in public.

I guess it should also be said that modding also allows those who want to get into game design a chance to get their feet wet, and learn and practice useful skills.

I like this scenario of a community working together to make something good for everyone, than a view of some guys far away from you, making a product for you to consume as is.

I mean, there are pros and cons to both sides, but that's honestly a can of worms I'd rather not open.

The only cons are really the nudity stuff, infringing upon other people's rights online and making the online worse, but offline and online with specific groups in the know, I think there's only positives.

People add to the game, share their passion, and form the game how they want. Why anyone would want to restrict that beyond my previously mentioned parameters (and perhaps a few others that I probably forgot) is beyond me. All it does is add stuff to the game, not subtract it. It also creates a community bond, purpose, and sense of self-fulfillment.

 

[Baskerville]

John's post actually got me kinda mad. I hate these types of touchy discussions.

 

[Johnknight1]

Demonizing? That's an interesting choice of words.

The Melee community has been demonized by the Brawl competitive community to a large degree because the Melee community is not ashamed to say they think Brawl sucks as a competitive game. It's a fact that much of the Brawl community says negative things the Melee community. When the Melee community says negative things about something something, it's basically "Brawl sucks" (and they mean the game competitively), which isn't aimed at the community, but rather, the game, which is oddly enough the by and large Brawl community frequently takes more personally than the Melee community takes the personal insults.

And the funny thing is the Competitive Brawl and Melee communities have very little beef between each other by and large (sans some sections, which is usually over venues/money/conduct), but the casual Brawl players who don't play competitively or really have any competitive understanding at all are the ones ruining the party. Ever notice that all of the big name tournaments in huge venues have both games, and fans of both games get along just fine at tournaments=???

I understand the differences between Melee and Brawl, and I do respect those with the opposite opinion as mine. My main issue stems from the lack of maturity and all the butthurt: the endless trash talking, genuine hate threads, the non-stop Melee vs Brawl threads, that we can't have a proper gameplay discussion threads, unwillingness to compromise, and taking opinion as fact.

Honestly, the whole Brawl community is far worse, because by and large, it isn't the Brawl competitive community casting the hate... it's the casual Brawl community who think they know everything. Just look at SmashChu's ignorant statements based on little to no competitive knowledge or history (in which people like myself, Kuma, and El Duderino have flat out won debates over him with, and he refers to the same hyperbole and sayings over and over), the casual Brawl community, or even the GameFAQs Melee hatred. The Melee competitive community (and competitive smash in general) hatred is absolutely absurd, especially since it doesn't effect these people at all.

When you read stupid stuff like that, you tend to respond cynically, and insult the game they're defending as if it was their religion (Brawl), and they take it personally. It's kinda funny, actually. That's how most of these "arguments" play out. I can't tell you how many times people insulted the Melee community, I stepped up and explained how I thought Brawl was a bad game competitively, and people responded like I just said I'd do very inappropriate thing to their mother.

Deserving or not, all the negativity is very discouraging and is doing more damage to my love of two awesome games more so than tripping or getting carpal tunnel from Wavedashing ever will. It is really quite sad that even after a little over 6 years that such division within the community still exists.

Again, it's mostly people who rarely play the game, and it's the casual Brawl community. The whole thing is just over people who don't even play competitively who think they have a right to demand what other people can think, say, or do.

Also, wavedashing is the last thing that will give you carpal tunnel. It's a 3 step button command. There's button commands in lots of (non-fighting) games that are way more advanced!

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

And the funny thing is the Competitive Brawl and Melee communities have very little beef between each other by and large (sans some sections, which is usually over venues/money/conduct), but the casual Brawl players who don't play competitively or really have any competitive understanding at all are the ones ruining the party. Ever notice that all of the big name tournaments in huge venues have both games, and fans of both games get along just fine at tournaments=???

I'm sorry for ruining this party I knew nothing about...

 

[Johnknight1]

I just watched this and I thought this was freaking awesome. I feel the need to share it...

John's post actually got me kinda mad. I hate these types of touchy discussions.

I don't feel touchy about them. I'm recounting what's happened and how I feel about stuff (specifically what has happened).

If you agree of disagree with me, you do that for some reason, and quite frankly, it's interesting to know the who, what, when where, why, and how's to people responding to what I'm saying and similar stuff.

I'm sorry for ruining this party I knew nothing about...

No, no, it's just certain segments of it of course, and you didn't do anything. Casual players who don't rag on or care about competitive play have done nothing wrong, and shouldn't feel bad for anything. IMO you should just play the game how you want to play it and like what you like and not be ashamed of it.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

No, no, it's just certain segments of it of course, and you didn't do anything. Casual players who don't rag on or care about competitive play have done nothing wrong, and shouldn't feel bad for anything. IMO you should just play the game how you want to play it and like what you like and not be ashamed of it.

Oh, okay. I feel better now.

 

[Johnknight1]

Oh, okay. I feel better now.

Good. Because I will only make you feel worse when I want to! *insert evil laugh here*

Not much to say here since I agree. Honestly though, competitive Melee really is intimidating just to watch in action, so that's one of the main reasons I don't want to see another Melee, that and the trash talking within it's community doesn't help either. Got anything Johnknight-ish here to say to calm my worries?

The top level Melee players are freaking nice. I've met and played with guys like Shroomed, Mango, Leffen, etc, and all of them are really cool dudes.[COLLAPSE="As for tournaments..."]it is one of the most awesome environments to be around, and it is so awesome to watch all the action. It's more enjoyable than (nearly) every sport live IMO. There's no slowdown, there's always a tournament match going, and it feels like March Madness if there was a triple overtime game with 360 dunks going on at all times. I went to a tournament last summer where on adjacent TVs were Mango, Bladewise (no freaking joke this guy is pure entertainment), H-Box vs. SFAT, Shroomed, Leffen, and Zhu.[/COLLAPSE]And they aren't insulting anyone really, they're more insulting a piece of plastic named "Brawl." We "Trash talk" about a lot of things like that in a playful fun way that people "in the know" get. For example, here in NorCal, our best player is Shroomed, and every time he plays, we rag on him and tell him how much he sucks. Every time he wins or lands a hit, he was "lucky." Or when Mango plays people rag on him because he's so good. It get to the point where every time he gets hit it's "a strategy," "he's setting something up," or even "look at how generous Mango is guys! He's such a great guy!" All real quotes, too.

I find that the actual Melee community just gets a negative connotation put on them because of ignorant people, as I previously mentioned. We're called kiddie game lovers, fake hardcore folks, and no fun, but really, most of us are there for the scene, the fun, the community, the party, and the joyful competition that is Melee (and Project M). People mistake our passion for hate, when it's just a passion because we love all of what I just mentioned.

Also, we're a lot more... "casual" than you think. I told you I played a Giant Melee Fox ditto match on Brinstar with Shroomed once. Seriously, try it. You drown in the lava slow. Watching the characters drown and cry in pain thanks to an unstoppable lava drowning death is freaking hilarious.

 

[---]

Melee vs Brawl communities, SmashChu

Honestly I haven't seen it, honestly it doesn't matter though, in the end it takes two to argue so in my eyes both communities are equally guilty.

As for SmashChu, I respect the guy just as much as the rest of you so keep any beefs you have with him to yourselfs, as I'd rather not argue against him nor defend him.

Again, it's mostly people who rarely play the game, and it's the casual Brawl community. The whole thing is just over people who don't even play competitively who think they have a right to demand what other people can think, say, or do.

Makes sense, just don't go Gamefaqs on me by saying that competitive players know what's best for everyone as that's just as equally ignorant.

Also, wavedashing is the last thing that will give you carpal tunnel. It's a 3 step button command. There's button commands in lots of (non-fighting) games that are way more advanced!

Well it's tough for me to do...I just wanted to add that line in to make it seem less bias overall and have both games on equal ground.

 

[Hoots]

Johnny, while I mostly agree with what you said, I think you're underestimating the butthurt of the Melee community. Granted I am(was) a competitive Brawl player(not the casual group you were referring to), but the hatred and hateful spewings of the Melee community are pretty severe. And you can't possibly say that the Melee community doesn't personally attack Brawl players.

Look at /r/smashbros on Reddit. It's one giant Melee circlejerk, and a Brawl/"Brawlie"/Smash4/Sakurai hatefest. They are impossibly bitter. I like both games (but I will always prefer a game with a bigger roster, since that's the most important facet of a Smash game to me), and I've seen both sides of the bitchfest. I don't think it's entirely fair to paint the Melee community in that much more of a positive light.

Edit: Also, what Tridash said.

 

[Johnknight1]

Honestly I haven't seen it, honestly it doesn't matter though, in the end it takes two to argue so in my eyes both communities are equally guilty.

No, they're not. The casual Brawl crowd that's hating on the Melee competitive crowd is hating on people because they have different beliefs. the Melee competitive crowd is hating on a freaking video game more humorously than anything. The people in the casual Brawl crowd doing this are no better than how Fox News acts.

As for SmashChu, I respect the guy just as much as the rest of you so keep any beefs you have with him to yourselfs, as I'd rather not argue against him nor defend him.

I've said it to him directly, but man, people like him simply rarely existed back in the pre-Brawl hype days. Ever since Brawl was announced, suddenly huge swarms of people hate tournament players. They ought to shut up and spend their time doing something productive. Smash isn't meant to be played any way, as stated by its' creator.

Makes sense, just don't go Gamefaqs on me by saying that competitive players know what's best for everyone as that's just as equally ignorant.

If people want to play the game a certain way, they should. I love that idea and the idea of different types of smashers. That's a big reason why I'm such a lover of literally an endless amount of options, modes, play styles, and ways to play each smash game. I love me some diversity.
[quote="---, post: 15535437, member: 88129"]I just wanted to add that line in to make it seem less bias overall and have both games on equal ground.[/quote]
I played Mario Party last night, and by God, that game really messes up the skin on the inside of your hands. Also, a few combos in hack and slash games have ridiculous combos IMO. I can't think of anything now!

 

[Dark Phazon]

**** man watching those ''E for All'' vids damn those girls are annoying...but at the same time its heart warming to see PeePz that excited...stuffs not like that these days..everythings just dissapointing...yo John i appreciate that though...

I dunno man everything is just ****ed up...i know its pointless and cheesy to say but ''we just gotta wait'' and see how sheet goes this time...it cant get worse than Brawl though come on...thats litreally the worswe thing that could happen right?

 

[FlareHabanero]

Trust me, it's very easy to make something worse then Brawl. People do exaggerate how "awful" Brawl is, but it's more along the lines of being a victim of it's own success. It's a solid game on it's own right, but far from the perfect game.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Trust me, it's very easy to make something worse then Brawl. People do exaggerate how "awful" Brawl is, but it's more along the lines of being a victim of it's own success.

Yh but like even with Namco aboard? I mean ofc realisticly anything is possible...but like....Really?

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

**** man watching those ''E for All'' vids damn those girls are annoying...but at the same time its heart warming to see PeePz that excited...stuffs not like that these days..everythings just dissapointing...yo John i appreciate that though...

I dunno man everything is just ****ed up...i know its pointless and cheesy to say but ''we just gotta wait'' and see how sheet goes this time...it cant get worse than Brawl though come on...thats litreally the worswe thing that could happen right?

No, the worst that can happen is the game never comes out at all. Brawl wasn't that bad; plenty of things in Brawl could've ended up TONS worse.

 

[Dark Phazon]

No, the worst that can happen is the game never comes out at all. Brawl wasn't that bad; plenty of things in Brawl could've ended up TONS worse.

Thanks...that made me feel better....

 

[Frostwraith]

Both Melee elitists and Brawl purists are equally stupid. Why waste time arguing which of them is worse? Both are bad and let's leave it at that.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Thanks...that made me feel better....

You're welcome.

 

[Baskerville]

I guess. This discussion is awful.... -_-

 

[FlareHabanero]

This discussion is awful.... -_-

Beats out Fire Emblem circlejerks any day.

 

[Deleted member]

Trust me, it's very easy to make something worse then Brawl. People do exaggerate how "awful" Brawl is, but it's more along the lines of being a victim of it's own success. It's a solid game on it's own right, but far from the perfect game.

This, Brawl isn't bad game by ANY stretch of the imagination. Now while not longer a viable competitive game in my eyes, it's still a lot of fun and a very good game.

Now while it has a lot of flaws, and it's nowhere near as good as Melee (Sakurai agrees), it's still a good game.

Personally, I prefer Melee over it, just because of the physics and mechanics, but P:M certainly gives me the best of both world.

 

[Banjodorf]

Beats out Fire Emblem circlejerks any day.

Yeah. At least this ends on a positive note. The FE shiz usually ends on "SO ANYWAY! NEW TOPIC!"

 

[Big-Cat]

As far as Game Arts goes, they tried to make it SOOO different from Melee that they made the game worse.

This is actually what happened with Final Fantasy XIV. They tried to make it so different from the good Final Fantasy XI that it fell flat on their face. The current producer (as the previous producer and director resigned) knew that the game was going to be a disaster. He said that they needed to do things a lot differently. He said that they should've played different MMO's like World of Warcraft for about a year in order to get inspiration and combine that with what was done with Final Fantasy XI to make a better game in general.

This is astonishingly close to how my ideas for Smash 4 developed.

 

[Deleted member]

I guess. This discussion is awful.... -_-

Here's a new topic.

Lets talk about Scientology. I recently watched a BBC documentary about them that was definintely worth my time. You guys should check it out, just type in "Scientology BBC" in Youtube

Least to say, it certainly strikes me as a cult, and their methods are downright creepy.

I hope none of you are Scientologists.

Also, Tom Cruise should come out of the closet already.
Hahahaha

 

[---]

I always enjoy these "end of a major discussion" posts, it's always at the end of these that it's easy to see that we're all video game fans united by our passion for one particular series, and that we tend to agree with each other more than we think.

Beats out Fire Emblem circlejerks any day.

This.

 

[Johnknight1]

Haven't really compared 64 to Melee/Brawl all that much so I'll have to see. Personally I always thought the floatiness was because of the larger stage sizes.

Honestly I'd rather see a 64 2.0 rather than Melee/Brawl 2.0.

64 is less floaty than Brawl, but it's got more DI, especially sideways. That sideways DI is literally the best defensive tool in Smash 64. Without, there would be so much more insta-kills, and that game would favor offense way too much.[COLLAPSE="As for what I want, I would like to see:"]
-More stage-size variety: I think Brawl got the stage size the most right, but I'd love some more open stages like a Hyrule Castle. With Brawl we occasionally got that, but those stages weren't popular at all (see: New Pork City). A somewhat non-interfering stage that's big but not Temple huge would be great IMO.
-A crap ton more options and game modes: I could write ten essays on this and my love of lots of options and game modes to allow people to play the game their way. Fortunately, Sakurai loves these as well, but sadly, nowhere near as much as I do. XD
-Less air-to-land lag: Basically something like automatic L-cancelling.
-More offense: I'd like to see good offense beat good defense most of the time. It should favor the more offensive player like Melee did with balancing it. That includes...
-Some more combos: Combos are one of the cool things about smash. I feel that some more quick small combos than there were in Brawl would make the game more enjoyable to watch and play.
-More hitstun: Especially at high percent damage. This allows for combos. Obviously I think everyone should also have the same hitstun, otherwise we'll get a situation like what we have with Ness and Lucas (to where if they get grabbed, it's awful).
-The ability to actually spike/gimp foes: Brawl's lack of spikes that kill and gimps really took away one of the best things about Smash 64 and Melee.
-No planking: Please kill this.
-More offense favoring aerial offense: We got infinite air dodges and we're probably never going back, so more aerial offense would help counter that from being spammed, as well as lead to some sweet offenses chases, combos, and kills.
-Faster movement: I want characters to move faster, especially the slow characters (WTF Jigglypuff?) and Sonic.
-Faster gameplay: The Gameplay IMO should be at least 10-15% faster than Brawl's gameplay.[/COLLAPSE]

Gameplay is still a huge part, so I do half agree. Personally I'm hoping that we get an expansive "How to Play" menu like we did in Uprising, as well as an expanded training mode coming from Namco Fighters.

Agreed. The "How to Play" stuff should be interactive, and there should be solid details on each move, item, and maybe even some stage stuff IMO. Namco Bandai's recent efforts at training modes and how to play modes from what I have seen are amazing. I know from my love of Soul Calibur that such things allows me to "get good" at those games because of what they teach me.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Also I will say this and only say it once.

Don't treat Smash 4 like the second coming of Jesus, it's not going to be the absolute perfect game of your dreams. It's going to have flaws whether you like it or not, so embrace it instead of living in a fantasy land. Just saying so you all don't get disappointed.

 

[Baskerville]

Beats out Fire Emblem circlejerks any day.

. . . . . . . . .
OK you win there

 

[Johnknight1]

Johnny, while I mostly agree with what you said, I think you're underestimating the butthurt of the Melee community. Granted I am(was) a competitive Brawl player(not the casual group you were referring to), but the hatred and hateful spewings of the Melee community are pretty severe. And you can't possibly say that the Melee community doesn't personally attack Brawl players.

You know, there is a degree of hate, and honestly, I've found most of those people to be fake competitive Melee players or people who don't really attend tournaments. Truth be told "Brawl sucks" to most tournament goers I know is more of a joke. Heck, a few times on GameFAQs and even Smash Boards I've found that a bunch of fake (competitive) Melee players were actually just casual Brawl players.

Truth be told though, I think there's a bunch of bickering 3rd parties over something that doesn't concern them mostly. It's like with the America-Canada relationship Britain is crapping on Canada, and France is crapping on America, so both Britain and France start crapping on one another. It's like Canada and American are "yo dawg, we cool" while third parties are complaining about their relationship (which doesn't involve them) for no comprehensive or intelligent reason.

Look at /r/smashbros on Reddit. It's one giant Melee circlejerk, and a Brawl/"Brawlie"/Smash4/Sakurai hatefest. They are impossibly bitter. I like both games (but I will always prefer a game with a bigger roster, since that's the most important facet of a Smash game to me), and I've seen both sides of the *****fest. I don't think it's entirely fair to paint the Melee community in that much more of a positive light.

Edit: Also, what Tridash said.

1. It's Reddit.
2. It's Reddit.
3. How many actual competitive smash bros players post on Reddit=???
4. Again, I was talking about most of the competitive Melee community. Obviously there are exceptions with stupid people in that group.
5. I must admit, I really don't like Reddit at all, and I find nearly all of it to be freaking awful.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well the story of my name.....

The ''DARK'' is there to represent my Highest level character and hours i put into a game called ''Phantasy Star Online Episode I & II'' on Gamecube.
My bro named his Character ''Shadow'' so like were brothers and shadow & dark but yh...soo many memories and hours into that beyond awsome game i will never forget!

Also the Dark & Phazon can relate my love of the Metroid
Series and awsome fetish i had of ''Dark Samus'' one time lol going through the Prime Trilogy & ''Phazon'' sums up the prime trilogy.

Then Dark Phazon was born.

Dude, you played Phantasy Star Online on Gamecube? Bro that game was WICKED! Those Mach Guns where my favorites! Also those bigass weapons wherea awesome. The game just kept getting better as you played bro! Episode 2 was even better with the mazes and such. Damnit man, thanks to you I gotta play this **** again!

 

[Banjodorf]

I always enjoy these "end of a major discussion" posts, it's always at the end of these that it's easy to see that we're all video game fans united by our passion for one particular series, and that we tend to agree with each other more than we think.

It's one of the reasons I love this community so much. Sure, we all disagree from time to time, but we have a general agreement about so many things, and for the most part we're pretty respectful of eachother's ideas.

Just hope we get more new people that share that philosophy than not, eh? So far so good from what I can see.

 

[Johnknight1]

**** man watching those ''E for All'' vids damn those girls are annoying...but at the same time its heart warming to see PeePz that excited...stuffs not like that these days..everythings just dissapointing...yo John i appreciate that though...

Well according to the people there, they were really annoying, but equally as attractive. I guess there's a give-and-take relationship there!

I dunno man everything is just ****ed up...i know its pointless and cheesy to say but ''we just gotta wait'' and see how sheet goes this time...it cant get worse than Brawl though come on...thats litreally the worswe thing that could happen right?

Brawl's only bad competitively (as an entertaining, fun, and deep game), offensively, and in terms of some lacking content. All that can be fixed easily, and with an actually solid developer making the next smash bros game on a console that's like a decades' worth of technology more advanced, I say our worries are minimal. While I'm at it, I will say casually it has more characters and content, as well as IMO better stages than Melee, but in terms of gameplay and items, I'd still favor Melee in that regard.

And even if the game sucks really bad, we can mod it all to make it great! With our new modding community, we can literally turn heaven into hell (see some of the Underworld mods of the Sky World) and vice versa! (I saw a happy version of the 3rd level of Castle Siege once!)