Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[Moon Monkey]

(Un)fortunately, no. Unless he outright says it. His other statement "Moves may change before release"(paraphrased) still holds up.

I still doubt him now more than ever, but he hasn't actually de-confirmed him. It's really a case of wait till release or a statement "He isn't playable". That's the thing about Sakurai, he's too unpredictable.

Well of course he isn't going to spell it out that Toad, or any other Mario character, or any other Nintendo character for that matter is deconfirmed. I'm just saying, with the type of Miiverse post he made today it is the type that he would couple with a character reveal. "(Insert newly release Nintendo game here) is out today in Japan! And (Insert related character) joins the fray"

Just saying, if Toad were to be revealed he would have been shown as his own character jumping, instead of only appearing as Peach's side special.

Zealous about it?

A bit. Sorry Berserker, I'm not trying to **** on your dream smash, I know you are a big supporter for Toad and all, but anything that may hint that no more Mario characters will be added to the roster will get me ansy.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Well of course he isn't going to spell it out that Toad, or any other Mario character, or any other Nintendo character for that matter is deconfirmed. I'm just saying, with the type of Miiverse post he made today it is the type that he would couple with a character reveal. "(Insert newly release Nintendo game here) is out today in Japan! And (Insert related character) joins the fray"

Just saying, if Toad were to be revealed he would have been shown as his own character jumping, instead of only appearing as Peach's side special.

Obviously he isn't being revealed. I didn't say he was, just that he ain't de-confirmed. Two different things.

But that's the fault of Sakurai being vague. Unless he outright says something, well... you never know.

 

[Berserker.]

A bit. Sorry Berserker, I'm not trying to **** on your dream smash, I know you are a big supporter for Toad and all, but anything that may hint that no more Mario characters will be added to the roster will get me ansy.

My bad too about that. Just ticked by the many detractors that jumped out of the bush and said, "Told ya so!"

 

[MasterOfKnees]

No one cares about Genesect. That's why Mewtwo had to be in it's movie.

So people would watch it.

I guess nobody cared about Deoxys either, since Rayquaza needed to be in his movie, or vice versa. Or no one cared about Lucario, since Mew and the Regi trio needed to be in his movie. Or no one cared about Darkrai, since Palkia and Dialga needed to be in it. Or no one cared about Shaymin, because Giratina had to be in its movie, or vice versa. Or no one cared about Arceus, since Palkia, Dialga and Giratina had to be in its movie. You get the idea. Co-op movies aren't a rarity in Pokémon, they just used it as a way to advertise the new mega evolution mechanic, which is nothing new since the movies are nothing but big advertisements.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Alright, I'm assuming something did happen. Could someone explain, please?

Check today's pic

Toad is again confirmed to be Peach's neutral special, which means he likely won't be playable.

 

[Typhl0si0n]

Dude. What if they gave Genesect an appearance in Smash 4. Like, they replace Lucario for Mewtwo and add in Genesect. (Pikachu, Pokemon Trainer, Mewtwo, Genesect as the lineup)

**** that. We don't need no bugformer as a playable character over anyone else, imo.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Dude. What if they gave Genesect an appearance in Smash 4. Like, they replace Lucario for Mewtwo and add in Genesect. (Pikachu, Pokemon Trainer, Mewtwo, Genesect as the lineup)

 

[Pheta Ray]

I just see Genesect as a more viable option than Darkrai, for example. I can only imagine how Darkrai would move.

Just entertaining ideas.

 

[Kamikazek]

Should've clarified more, my bad.

The way I look at is Digimon looked at Eevee, and did an entire concept based upon it. They have other similarities too. The Digimentals/Digi-Armor Eggs are somewhat similar to the various items evolutions. Notably, Digimion did the fusion idea first, as well as the Burst Mode thing. So Pokemon did do two similar things specifically, the Kyurem fusions(actually, this is closer to the Digi-Xross instead), and of course, Mega Evolutions are pretty much the exact same thing as Burst Mode. But even so, the series are both very different, so who cares?

Digimon has the better Anime, Pokemon has the better games, and they both have great Toys(I mean regular toys, not Electronic Toys that are pretty much video games in everything but name).

I actually like the Digimon games more than the Pokemon games.
Well, some of them. The Digimon games are kind of all over the radar.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

I guess nobody cared about Deoxys either, since Rayquaza needed to be in his movie, or vice versa. Or no one cared about Lucario, since Mew and the Regi trio needed to be in his movie. Or no one cared about Darkrai, since Palkia and Dialga needed to be in it. Or no one cared about Shaymin, because Giratina had to be in its movie, or vice versa. Or no one cared about Arceus, since Palkia, Dialga and Giratina had to be in its movie.

Yup, you understand perfectly. <3

Well, except for that last one, it was initially just advertised as Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina having a 3 way fight until they decided to throw Arceus in there, so it's kind reverse.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I just don't see why we should cut Lucario. IMO Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Lucario, and PT is fine representation for Pokemon.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I actually like the Digimon games more than the Pokemon games.
Well, some of them. The Digimon games are kind of all over the radar.

I'm talking about how they're overall received. Pokemon has more popular Games, Digimon has the more popular Anime. But this is due to the work put into each. Digimon World 1 was a disaster compared to some of them. But it does depend which game. It's probably because some of the Digimon games puts in something that makes it more difficult for no reason. The fact you gotta feed your Digimon in the first Digimon World was really annoying. World 2 isn't nearly as bad, but I won't lie, the fact your vehicle can easily break down was pointless. Or the whole max level stuff. World 4 was really bad, though. Harder than it needed to be, completely hard to work with design...

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Digimon has the more popular Anime

This is so incorrect that it hurts my lungs. XD

 

[Pheta Ray]

I just don't see why we should cut Lucario. IMO Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Lucario, and PT is fine representation for Pokemon.

Oh I'm all for keeping Lucario. I used to main him and it'd be a shame to cut him out.

But 5 representatives from one game series is quite a bit compared to the other cast. I mean unless you count Legend of Zelda, which has Link, Toon Link, Ganondorf, Zelda, and Sheik. I count Zelda and Sheik as one character since they take up the same spot on the roster (Shielda, wasn't it?).

Edit: four characters per game series seems to be a comfortable number, at least.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Yup, you understand perfectly. <3

Well, the point of my post is that so many of those are still fan favorites to this day, especially Deoxys, Lucario (duh) and Darkrai. Genesect will likely retain at least some degree of popularity.

I'm talking about how they're overall received. Pokemon has more popular Games, Digimon has the more popular Anime. But this is due to the work put into each. Digimon World 1 was a disaster compared to some of them. But it does depend which game. It's probably because some of the Digimon games puts in something that makes it more difficult for no reason. The fact you gotta feed your Digimon in the first Digimon World was really annoying. World 2 isn't nearly as bad, but I won't lie, the fact your vehicle can easily break down was pointless. Or the whole max level stuff. World 4 was really bad, though. Harder than it needed to be, completely hard to work with design...

Digimon World 1 was incredibly awesome, because it was the classic concept of Digimon about it being a virtual pet combined with a somewhat unique battle system. All of those Digimon RPG games were just boring and didn't stand out much, other than having to dedigivolve your Digimons all the time, which sucked since it just resulted in **** tons of grinding. I really only care about the ones who at least try and implement a somewhat unique virtual pet part of it too, like World 1, Championship and Re:Digitize.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Well, the point of my post is that so many of those are still to this day fan favorites, especially Deoxys, Lucario (duh) and Darkrai. Genesect will likely retain at least some degree of popularity.

Genesect can't retain something it never had to begin with.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

http://www.polygon.com/2013/11/20/5127488/a-day-in-the-extremely-busy-life-of-masahiro-sakurai

I know it's been posted, but I'm surprised nobody has been talking about this line more:

In all previous Smash Bros. games," he explained, "I've entered in all the data for fighter skills and hitboxes by myself, and it's quite nearly that way with this game too. I've thought about leaving this work to others and I've actually tried it once or twice, but it hasn't worked out. I don't want to release an incomplete game, and I want everything to be as successful as possible, but it results in a massive amount of work for me. It's a big problem, but there are reasons for doing it this way.

This seems to confirm that Sakurai will be doing most of the moveset design and balance for this game on his own again. Not sure what this may or may not indicate for competitive balance.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Genesect can't retain something it never had to begin with.

Genesect has had a fair share of popularity inside the Pokémon community, just not overwhelmingly much. It has had more attention around it than pretty much every 5th Gen legendary that isn't named Zekrom, Reshiram or Kyurem. So I'm not exactly sure where you're getting the idea that no one cares about it, since there's a good chunk that do. Heck, Genesect is so awesome, Mega Blastoise had to steal its gimmick.

http://www.polygon.com/2013/11/20/5127488/a-day-in-the-extremely-busy-life-of-masahiro-sakurai

I know it's been posted, but I'm surprised nobody has been talking about this line more:

This seems to confirm that Sakurai will be doing most of the moveset design and balance for this game on his own again. Not sure what this may or may not indicate for competitive balance.

Well, in another interview he did state that he had people to help him with certain tasks this time around, which he has never had before. I'm betting balancing is part of that.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

But 5 representatives from one game series is quite a bit compared to the other cast. I mean unless you count Legend of Zelda, which has Link, Toon Link, Ganondorf, Zelda, and Sheik. I count Zelda and Sheik as one character since they take up the same spot on the roster (Shielda, wasn't it?).

Edit: four characters per game series seems to be a comfortable number, at least.

5 characters isn't that much for a big series like Pokemon. Hell, in Brawl there were plans for 5 Pokemon characters to be in the game at one point.

And one franchise getting 5 characters isn't unheard of. Mario had 5 characters in Melee(and there was, at some point, plans to keep it that way for Brawl).

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

http://www.polygon.com/2013/11/20/5127488/a-day-in-the-extremely-busy-life-of-masahiro-sakurai

I know it's been posted, but I'm surprised nobody has been talking about this line more:

This seems to confirm that Sakurai will be doing most of the moveset design and balance for this game on his own again. Not sure what this may or may not indicate for competitive balance.

Sakurai can't trust others and is full of himself as always. What else is new?

Seriously though, he does have the Namco Bandai team working with him too. I'm sure that if he's smart, which is highly debatable, he's having them look over the characters as he makes them and has them helping him with balancing and design and what not. Otherwise, why else would they be there in the first place?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Digimon World 1 was incredibly awesome, because it was the classic concept of Digimon about it being a virtual pet combined with a somewhat unique battle system. All of those Digimon RPG games were just boring and didn't stand out much, other than having to dedigivolve your Digimons all the time, which sucked since it just resulted in **** tons of grinding. I really only care about the ones who at least try and implement a somewhat unique virtual pet part of it too, like World 1, Championship and Re:Digitize.

In theory, yes. But World 1 had too many flaws. At least it did set up the series for many legitimate recolors.

I think the problem is that it came with too much silly difficulty.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

In theory, yes. But World 1 had too many flaws. At least it did set up the series for many legitimate recolors.

I think the problem is that it came with too much silly difficulty.

Oh yeah, Digimon World 1 is like a masterpiece painting, but with lots of holes in it. It had some great things about it, but it really did have a good chunk of flaws too. I still love it, but the concept would have been much better had they just expanded upon that instead of trying to cash in on a monster-collecting RPG. Took quite some years before they'd return to the same concept, and even then it's still only in Japan.

 

[Kamikazek]

I'm talking about how they're overall received. Pokemon has more popular Games, Digimon has the more popular Anime. But this is due to the work put into each. Digimon World 1 was a disaster compared to some of them. But it does depend which game. It's probably because some of the Digimon games puts in something that makes it more difficult for no reason. The fact you gotta feed your Digimon in the first Digimon World was really annoying. World 2 isn't nearly as bad, but I won't lie, the fact your vehicle can easily break down was pointless. Or the whole max level stuff. World 4 was really bad, though. Harder than it needed to be, completely hard to work with design...

Oh I know, I was just stating my opinion. Pokémon is by FAR the more popular game series, and generally much more competently made. I don't even think the Digimon games are better games I just like them more. Helps that I'm really not crazy about Pokémon(though I like them enough to play them).
I love Digimon World one! All the raising stuff was really tedious and annoyed me some of the time but I thought it was a cool way to keep the digital pet spirit, and it made the game unique. I loved the city building aspect, I thought they did it a lot better than other games like Suikoden. Glitchy as all hell though.
I basically had the same problems with two that you did.
Three was solid but way too much grinding towards the end, especially getting to mega. Also it was pretty glitchy. Also the card game was hella addictive.
4 was a god damn mess. Albeit an amusing mess in some places.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Genesect has had a fair share of popularity inside the Pokémon community, just not overwhelmingly much. It has had more attention around it than pretty much every 5th Gen legendary that isn't named Zekrom, Reshiram or Kyurem. So I'm not exactly sure where you're getting the idea that no one cares about it, since there's a good chunk that do. Heck, Genesect is so awesome, Mega Blastoise had to steal its gimmick.

Sorry, but no.

Even Whimsicott and Lilligant were talked about and fawned over more than Genesect could ever hoped to have been. And let's not forget the whole thing with Snivy, or Smugleaf if we wanna be exact with the point in time. Samurott as well. Even Trubbish and Garbodor outrank it in popularity and how often it's brought up or discussed. Trash bags. Genesect never really had anything at all. Slight interest maybe since it was basically trying to be Gen 5's Mewtwo, but it kinda failed and majority of people lost interest. Probably why it wasn't important at all in BW2. You sound like a fan that's a bit too dedicated and trying too hard to make something you a couple other people like seem relevant and like it's the greatest thing ever.

And the cannon? Really? Blastoise already has 2 cannons on it's back to begin with. If anything, Genesect just tried to be cool like him and have a "totally original do not steal" back cannon instead, only for Blastoise to go Mega and grow another one, thus making it three times as inferior.

Sad for him.

 

[Pheta Ray]

Speaking of Pokemon, and this comes hesitantly because it seems like the lines of Pokemon cut deep through this thread, but does anyone beside me actually play the TCG?

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Sorry, but no.

Even Whimsicott and Lilligant were talked about and fawned over more than Genesect could ever hoped to have been. And let's not forget the whole thing with Snivy, or Smugleaf if we wanna be exact with the point in time. Samurott as well. Even Trubbish and Garbodor outrank it in popularity and how often it's brought up or discussed. Trash bags. Genesect never really had anything at all. Slight interest maybe since it was basically trying to be Gen 5's Mewtwo, but it kinda failed and majority of people lost interest. Probably why it wasn't important at all in BW2. You sound like a fan that's a bit too dedicated and trying too hard to make something you a couple other people like seem relevant and like it's the greatest thing ever.

And the cannon? Really? Blastoise already has 2 cannons on it's back to begin with. If anything, Genesect just tried to be cool like him and have a "totally original do not steal" back cannon instead, only for Blastoise to go Mega and grow another one, thus making it three times as inferior.

Sad for him.

The Blastoise part was pretty much a joke, me and my friends usually call it Genestoise, which we should probably stop doing since Mega Blastoise doesn't even use its cannons.

I'm not sure where the hay you get Whimsicott and Lilligant from, because no one talks about them, like no one. Of course the starters are more popular, the starters are more popular than any other Pokémons every generation, usually up against the mascots. Except Emboar, nobody likes Emboar. Garbodor gained its fame from being ugly, so yeah.

Genesect has had a fair deal of fans, and if we want to talk about discussions about it, then we do have the Kabutops -> Genesect theory, which as stupid as it is has had a fair amount of discussions. It being Team Plasma's ultimate weapon also peaked a lot of interest when it was first discovered in how it'd be distributed, and its role in the future. Being Mewtwo's counterpart alone has given it a good deal of discussions too, and apparently people are talking about how it could have been built to possibly counter Mewtwo in one of the wars that are talked about in X & Y, though I don't care for that stuff myself and certainly don't believe it myself. Oh, and Genesect also has a lot of popularity in the TCG currently, it's not much, but it's more than Lilligant and Whimsicott.

Either way, I'm not trying to make it out that Genesect is a super important Pokémon, it's going to be sulking alongside Deoxys and Darkrai like I said, if even that, but at least give it credit where it's due.

Speaking of Pokemon, and this comes hesitantly because it seems like the lines of Pokemon cut deep through this thread, but does anyone beside me actually play the TCG?

Yeah, I do. Fun thing is that while we're talking about Genesect, my main deck is a Genesect-EX deck.

 

[Kamikazek]

Speaking of Pokemon, and this comes hesitantly because it seems like the lines of Pokemon cut deep through this thread, but does anyone beside me actually play the TCG?

Yo.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

5 characters isn't that much for a big series like Pokemon. Hell, in Brawl there were plans for 5 Pokemon characters to be in the game at one point.

And one franchise getting 5 characters isn't unheard of. Mario had 5 characters in Melee(and there was, at some point, plans to keep it that way for Brawl).

Pokemon got 6 characters.
I remember reading once that they said there were about 40 characters in brawl. This includes transformations which really should be counted regardless.

 

[Pheta Ray]

I just started so I use whatever card I can get. Made a grab-bag of Grass and Psychic cards that actually doesn't run that bad.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I just started so I use whatever card I can get. Made a grab-bag of Grass and Psychic cards that actually doesn't run that bad.

Grass/Psychic decks are pretty good. In general Psychic decks are just overpowered because of Mewtwo-EX and his X Ball attack. I usually see people running Mewtwo-EX, Shaymin-EX and Giratina-EX with Grass/Psychic decks, but I'm not sure if it has changed since Plasma Blast released with Genesect-EX.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Speaking of Pokemon, and this comes hesitantly because it seems like the lines of Pokemon cut deep through this thread, but does anyone beside me actually play the TCG?

That still exists?

No, I'm not being sarcastic. I mean, seriously? I thought that died out YEARS ago.

The Blastoise part was pretty much a joke, me and my friends usually call it Genestoise, which we should probably stop doing since Mega Blastoise doesn't even use its cannons.

Of course it was a joke. I'm well aware because the entirety of me jabbing at you comment for comment has been a joke. XD

Well, except about Genesect's overall popularity. It really is abysmal. I don't have much against it, though.

I just find it horribly boring.

 

[FlareHabanero]

http://www.polygon.com/2013/11/20/5127488/a-day-in-the-extremely-busy-life-of-masahiro-sakurai

I know it's been posted, but I'm surprised nobody has been talking about this line more:

This seems to confirm that Sakurai will be doing most of the moveset design and balance for this game on his own again. Not sure what this may or may not indicate for competitive balance.

You know what this means for balance?

 

[Pheta Ray]

I just find it horribly boring.

I kind of have to agree, it doesn't have as much to offer like Thundurus or Arceus. (Which is sad coming from me because Genesect is the best card in my deck ._.)

 

[Moon Monkey]

Obviously he isn't being revealed. I didn't say he was, just that he ain't de-confirmed. Two different things.

But that's the fault of Sakurai being vague. Unless he outright says something, well... you never know.

I wasn't insinuating that you were expecting a reveal. Maybe I should have worded it better.

Sakurai isn't going to outright say a character isn't going to make it, I guess some people will read into it and others will wait for it to be spelt out. Kinda like the Ridley thing, but of course there is the risk of being wrong when reading into things. But some people don't care about being wrong or right so they have no problem doing it.

My bad too about that. Just ticked by the many detractors that jumped out of the bush and said, "Told ya so!"

I'm sorry if it came off that way, I know for me I would hate it if people kept smearing stuff like that in my face, so I apologize.

 

[Baskerville]

Judging by the thumbs up I'm guessing its a good thing.
@berserker: Expect that sort of thing to happen all the time whenever a newcomer is confirmed or deconfirmed.

 

[Pheta Ray]

Marth was kind of a recent reveal, so we might not get another one until the middle of December.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Digimon doesn't have the more popular anime, Digimon has the BETTER anime

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Digimon doesn't have the more popular anime, Digimon has the BETTER anime

Again, debatable.

...Actually, no. It just plain doesn't. HAD might be a better term since that's more debatable. Now, it's kind of ridiculous to the point of it being no wonder that no one really watches it anymore or talks about it even though it does still get new seasons.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Marth was kind of a recent reveal, so we might not get another one until the middle of December.

This scenario wouldn't surprise me. Just saying that since we don't know how much content will be revealed nor do we have any clue to a specific release date, it's generally a good idea to not expect a huge flood of content ASAP at this time.

 

[Pazzo.]

You know what this means for balance?

Then why is Namco helping?