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Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

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Moon Monkey

Moon Monkey

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I think for Zelda, it would be cool if Nayru's Love was her shield (Kinda like how Yoshi's egg is his).
Nayru's Love crystal would decay just like the regular shields, and when released the crystal would shatter like it normally does:

And in it's shattering frames it will maintain the ability to reflect projectiles. Of course, the smaller the crystal the harder it is to reflect narrow projectiles like lasers and arrows.

As a person that plays Zelda on and off, I think Zelda's Up + Air should have lingering frames in the fire, and only when the move is sweet spotted will it do the most damage.

Oh and her neutral +air should be disjointed and have about the same range as Martha's.

Thoughts?

As for Ganondorf, I am pretty sure he'll get some changes... I just hope homie gets a trident.
 
Big-Cat

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MonK4 said:
You propose that jabs be the fastest moves on principle, I disagree, Dolphin Slash is a great example of a super fast move that allows Marth to break out of some ridiculous things while maintaining a high risk, and can KO at higher grounded percents. Speed does not need to be proportional to power, range is another factor, trajectory is another, and the list of variables for Smash balance goes on. Smash has a much larger and better list of incomparables than most every other fighting game ever.
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You have no ****ing idea what you're talking about.

EVERY OTHER FIGHTING GAME HAS TO WORRY ABOUT ALL THOSE VARIABLES. SMASH IS NOT THAT SPECIAL OF A SNOWFLAKE.

The only things you're remotely right on are taking variables into account and that moves like Marth's Up B being one of the faster moves. Thing is that a jab of the same speed provides a low risk, low reward option. Now please, don't talk like you know what you're talking about.
 
Starphoenix

Starphoenix

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I'm all for separating Zelda and Shiek. Switching between both characters in-game really doesn't offer much strategic advantage and most people stick with whichever one they favor. Sakurai already considers them distinct characters, so why not go ahead and separate them. That way, Zelda can have a new special that can contribute to her improvement, ideally.
 
Jaedrik

Jaedrik

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KumaOso said:
You have no ****ing idea what you're talking about.

EVERY OTHER FIGHTING GAME HAS TO WORRY ABOUT ALL THOSE VARIABLES. SMASH IS NOT THAT SPECIAL OF A SNOWFLAKE.

The only things you're remotely right on are taking variables into account and that moves like Marth's Up B being one of the faster moves. Thing is that a jab of the same speed provides a low risk, low reward option. Now please, don't talk like you know what you're talking about.
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lel comb @ me kid

No, but seriously, I have mad respect for other fighting games, but please try to understand what I'm saying here. The simple fact that Smash has a physics based knock-back engine which determines comboability gives a degree of flexibility and a set of incomparables which to balance with and mess around with for each individual move, whereas other fighting games have less emphasis on knockback and the like (while they are still important, heck, still so important that they have this consideration, that's why some moves can be faster and stronger than another and yet still not have the same utility). Say, for example, the jab knocks them back a certain degree, which can easily lead into another move at a wide range of percent, whereas the Dolphin Slash is used to get out of things when he has a small window of opportunity (or used to kill when grounded at higher percents with perfect spacing and reading and is unexpected nearly, but bad if it whiffs, you already know all this), is it not appropriate that their speed be similar though their powers are different, as they fill niches that no other move does? My point is not that Smash is something special, my point is that it is reasonable in a fighting game to have moves that are faster/just as fast as the base jab that fulfill another role that the jab cannot while sacrificing the ability to perform what the jab can.
 
Starphoenix

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Been finding a lot of people on my campus who are really into Super Smash Bros. Think all of us are going to have a launch party when the Wii U version comes out. I know at my family's house we definitely will. Really am excited for whenever this game is released.
 
ChickenWing13

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Starphoenix said:
Been finding a lot of people on my campus who are really into Super Smash Bros. Think all of us are going to have a launch party when the Wii U version comes out. I know at my family's house we definitely will. Really am excited for whenever this game is released.
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*Sakurai decides to cancel Smash the next day*
 
Diddy Kong

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Wave Kusanagi said:
I think Samus is enjoying the recoil of that Super Scope a little too much. ¦D
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Please keep posting here, you are awesome.


Starphoenix said:
I'm all for separating Zelda and Shiek. Switching between both characters in-game really doesn't offer much strategic advantage and most people stick with whichever one they favor. Sakurai already considers them distinct characters, so why not go ahead and separate them. That way, Zelda can have a new special that can contribute to her improvement, ideally.
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But how'd you feel about separate Sheik not actually being Sheik, but Impa?
 
Baskerville

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For Peach the main thing I hope they fix is her abysmal standing & running grabboxes. (Top: Standing, Bottom: Running)


They don't even cover her ****ing arm. :facepalm:
 
Diddy Kong

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Don't worry Iblis, IMPAct won't happen unless I'm provoked that much. ;)

I already dropped the I-bomb, it's up for the rest to make it explode or not.

I am the bomb, and they are the fuse, try not to make the wrong move :cool:
 
Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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KumaOso said:
Why add Lil Mac? He just uses fists like the majority of the characters. He would bring absolutely nothing to the table.
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An entire character devoted around Boxing is a lot different than adding a second(or more, depending how you look at it, but at least a second) heavy swordsman with generic slashes. One hasn't been done yet. False equivalence.

I got more "explosive" out of Ganondorf than something Twinkle Toes like. Deliberate movements with a lot of power behind them (see Akira Yuki in Virtua Fighter). Of course, how'd you define graceful is arguably arbitrary. A friend of mine described my Monkey Kung Fu form as an oversized bear fighting gracefully, but I never pictured it as graceful.
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He gives me the overall feeling of tons of various styles, being varied depending the game. He has no "single" style he uses, thankfully.

On the bold, this is a very common misconception. The way the art style is in Wind Waker has it to where all the men are top heavy, where their upper bodies make up a large percentage of their height. With the case of Ganondorf, he's not fat, but he does seem slightly stockier than his OoT counterpart. Compare him to the king in Wind Waker and you'll notice that Ganondorf doesn't even have so much as a gut.
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However, he has been around for over 500 years, or at least around 200ish. He's still getting somewhat old, respectively. He's very agile for a character who still has a gut, a bit of a hunchback.

I still do not think that going for a Toon Ganondorf (at least under that name) is necessary. Skyward Sword basically allowed a for cel-shaded like appearance with its more saturated color pallet and using mostly realistic proportions. Assuming we do get a Wind Waker moveset based Ganondorf, expect him, to have a more Skyward Sword-Twilight Princess hybrid look to him, but probably not under the Toon Ganondorf name.
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Then it's not Toon Ganondorf. Toon Ganondorf is specifically a character from WW, a very specific iteration of Ganondorf. If he re-gets the TP design, he can't be Toon Ganondorf, since that's an extremely specific art style.

Except that concept has hardly worked out in the last two Smash games. Just because the concept is unique does not make it good. Both games favored Sheik more (greatly so in Melee) while Zelda still has way too many flaws on her own. I still strongly believe that making Zelda herself standalone with a standalone Impa (with a Sheik alt. so mostly everyone wins) is the best path to take with her. From there, Zelda REALLY needs to be a set up oriented character. Get the character into a situation like a knockdown and start planting projectiles and traps around the opponent and hit them where they're open. I think that would make for a much more dynamic Zelda.
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They only favor Sheik because speed characters are most often the best in the game. That does not make the concept unimportant at all. In fact, since this a character-based series, their character concept is extremely important to them. Since the concept of the entire character is switching between her agile form for pushing out damage and her slower form for finishing, taking either away overall ruins what she is entirely. There's no point in having one over the other. Balance for the sake of balance is bad in this kind of game. Yes, it needs to be better, but it needs to still keep within the character's concept while making them better than what they are. Otherwise, it misses the forest for the trees. If Sheik goes, I'd gladly remove Zelda the same. And vice versa. Both or none.

Likewise, for Pokemon Trainer, if he returns, they need to still keep up his teamwork point in some way. They can do it far better, but that's the concept and needs to stay. One way I think they should do it is having Marvel VS Capcom-like switches. Another is that switching out gives the next guy a short boost, for say, 5 seconds. This makes playing all of them worth it. I will gladly remove the Stamina system as long as the concept of teamwork is still kept. Again, this is key to the purpose of adding them in the first place. Once a character no longer fits the concept of their design, they stop having a reason to be in Smash. Another example is Lucario. Without his Aura, he's nothing. This is his signature overall ability. It's possible to show off his Aura in some other way, but cutscenes are gone, so that's worthless. His Aura needs to show up in gameplay. I myself thought they did an excellent job with the way they did it, making him a challenge to play and win with, meaning you had to be careful about how you play him. You can't power your way through. You sometimes have to take a hit to put a hit in.

Related to Lucario, since his power comes from having damage, I wonder if removing the ability to get a No Damage Run is to promote his ability and make it worthwhile?(I'm joking, nobody knows why they removed Bonuses for the most part. There's a tiny slew left, like No KO Run, but that's it)

To me, I don't care if they're a crutch character as long as they keep within the concept and still can be fun to play as. Competition alone isn't important enough to me, and remember, the game series is catered to casual, not competitive play, overall. That, and as I said, it's character-driven, not balance-driven. I still like Ganondorf despite him having no specifically canon moves(names don't count, like Gerudo Dragon) here. To note, his Flame Choke does not appear in any games either, but he doesn't "choke" anyone outside of WW, while makes his TP design almost ironic overall for Brawl.(but his Final Smash as Beast Ganon is, IMO, a better choice than any of his Puppet Ganon forms.)
 
Jaedrik

Jaedrik

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GUYS.
There should be a Smash fanfic or movie or documentary title called "The Book of Hard Reads." (Omni, Pound V.5)
 
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