Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[Berserker.]

Slower than Roy. I consider him a slow swordsman in Melee, same with Link, since their counterparts are faster. I don't care what the frame data says here. That's how I categorize 'em.

Just read the quote I told Morbid

That is not his overall design. He has multiple ones. There is no exact design he follows. He was far faster in Melee than in Brawl, and he wasn't hyper slow in Melee either, just kind of slow. So I fully don't buy this applies in nay way.

Whatever happened to his strength and wrath? What happened to his colossal and hulking personality?

And he was meant to be slow in Melee. Although, he's not AS SLOW as expected but, he's still slow in general
"Since he's slow and can't jump very high, Ganondorf relies mainly on his immense physical strength to overwhelm his enemies." -trophy description in Melee

Yes, he's actually pretty mobile as Ganon or Ganondorf in most cases), like he should've been in Brawl. Maybe he wouldn't have shared bottom tier with Link and Zelda, who were also poorly designed.

Using a certain design doesn't force you into making a clone. Sakurai already stated his reasons of why Ganondorf wasn't fully decloned. He was afraid of alienating the Meleedorfs. He only used the TP version of Ganondorf to update Ganondorf (Like Zelda. Don't know with Link but he had a TP feel but still had the blonde hair).

And the TP design of Ganondorf was the same as the rest. He was still flipping powerful but his mobility is not one of his main feats.

Teleportation only appeared in one game (TLoZ). It never appeared in any Zelda game after that.

To be honest, his mobility isn't even shown in much games (Except Wind Waker. He's jumping around like a mad Donkey Kong :D). In Ocarina of Time, he uses magic to support his movement which would be cool as some sort of a new special that would replace dark dive.

So um.... He's not really known for his mobility. He's really just hulkingly powerful. Call it generic but it really is like that

I see something quite different from that statement. I see people who think he should have a sword and not be a Falcon clone. Nowhere did I ever read anyone talk about using his boring slow swordset designs. It was just "give him a sword".

There's a difference between what you just said and what I said.

I said people are fine with his slow and powerful type fighting style. I didn't say anything about a sword, just about his general character style. Their main criticism is towards the moves chosen for Ganondorf, not his purposed playstyle

I don't know about that. The start up on his neutral normal is insanely long. I am not sure about the rest of his moves, I know they nerfed his speed quite dramatically. He still might be faster than other characters. I will try him out soon. For some reason, Marth is the most hype reveal for me. I am actually getting excited about Smash again. So I will give him a shot next time I am on Brawl. I just remember him being REALLY slow. I could be wrong though.

To be exact, the following moves got a speed nerf:
1) Down smash is 1 frame slower
2) Dash attack is 1 frame slower
3) U-tilt ending lag is slightly slower
4) Up-air is 1 frame slower
5) Shield breaker is 3 frames slower

But the rest remain fast and 1 frame is a small difference. Noticeable and has to be noted like what Kuma said but regardless, still kinda of negligible. 1 frame is equal to 1/60 of a second (Or 1/50)

His attacks are still fast overall. IASA frames sort of helps that also but still fast without the mention

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Just read the quote I told Morbid

Whatever happened to his strength and wrath? What happened to his colossal and hulking personality?

Never really noticed that at all. I noticed he was often very evil and kidnappy. Since that's what his personality was, when he had one(cause he doesn't really have a personality outside of Melee)

And he was meant to be slow in Melee. Although, he's not AS SLOW as expected but, he's still slow in general
"Since he's slow and can't jump very high, Ganondorf relies mainly on his immense physical strength to overwhelm his enemies." -trophy description in Melee

Yes, that describes his current gameplay in a non-canon game. Doesn't mean anything for what he's like outside of it.

Using a certain design doesn't force you into making a clone. Sakurai already stated his reasons of why Ganondorf wasn't fully decloned. He was afraid of alienating the Meleedorfs. He only used the TP version of Ganondorf to update Ganondorf (Like Zelda. Don't know with Link but he had a TP feel but still had the blonde hair).

You also kinda forgot why he was a clone in the first place. Sakurai had no plans to add him outside of that. Link was fully TP in Brawl too. And it was still a bad idea to use a lame design, but it is what it is. I was severely disappointed in how he made Ganondorf into a bottom tier character for no reason at all. Especially when Mario played even more differently with his changes.

And the TP design of Ganondorf was the same as the rest. He was still flipping powerful but his mobility is not one of his main feats.

Been one of his feats throughout all of the Zelda series, so incorrect. He moves around a lot in his boss fights a huge amount of time, as Ganon or Ganondorf. That's actually what made him somewhat unique as a boss. He wasn't a stationary or slow guy in the series. He was a mobile and strong boss heavily. Mobility is actually a big point to his characer.

Teleportation only appeared in one game (TLoZ). It never appeared in any Zelda game after that.

And A Link to the Past, and both Oracle Games... wait what? Play the Zelda games again. He teleported in many.

To be honest, his mobility isn't even shown in much games (Except Wind Waker. He's jumping around like a mad Donkey Kong :D). In Ocarina of Time, he uses magic to support his movement which would be cool as some sort of a new special that would replace dark dive.

Mobility means moving around. What else do you think it means? He does that in pretty much all his appearances where you fight him. He's never a stationary boss, thankfully, since that'd be dumb. Or did you not play TP? Boar Ganon is soooooo stationary. He isn't either among his other fights. You fight him on horseback, when he's... moving around heavily. He moves around too during the sword fight. You need to seriously replay the games, since he's a very mobile person overall.

So um.... He's not really known for his mobility. He's really just hulkingly powerful. Call it generic but it really is like that

Only in Brawl. But not his general style of play.

I said people are fine with his slow and powerful type fighting style. I didn't say anything about a sword, just about his general character style. Their main criticism is towards the moves chosen for Ganondorf, not his purposed playstyle

Only in Melee, because he was fairly mobile. He wasn't hyper slow, which is what made him worthless in Melee. In Brawl, he was trash tier with Link and Zelda, due to terrible speed and other flaws.

 

[Berserker.]

Yes, that describes his current gameplay in a non-canon game. Doesn't mean anything for what he's like outside of it.

It still remained that way in Brawl except with the massive nerf to speed to the point of him being nearly useless in tournaments.

You also kinda forgot why he was a clone in the first place.

I was talking about why he remained a clone in Brawl in the first place

And A Link to the Past, and both Oracle Games... wait what? Play the Zelda games again. He teleported in many.

Correction : Oh right

Been one of his feats throughout all of the Zelda series, so incorrect. He moves around a lot in his boss fights a huge amount of time, as Ganon or Ganondorf. That's actually what made him somewhat unique as a boss. He wasn't a stationary or slow guy in the series. He was a mobile and strong boss heavily. Mobility is actually a big point to his characer.

Mobility means moving around. What else do you think it means? He does that in pretty much all his appearances where you fight him. He's never a stationary boss, thankfully, since that'd be dumb. Or did you not play TP? Boar Ganon is soooooo stationary. He isn't either among his other fights. You fight him on horseback, when he's... moving around heavily. He moves around too during the sword fight. You need to seriously replay the games, since he's a very mobile person overall.

I never said he was stationary. He's just not as mobile as you're saying.

He walks around in sword fights most of the time. Although he jumps around in boss fights, that's pretty much it. He's usually displayed as the towering type. Sometimes, he dashes at you but he's open for punishment (As seen in WW and TP) which is pretty much seen in Smash bros. since his moves have considerable lag which opens for punishment.

Horseback doesn't prove an individual's mobility.

Surprisingly and awesome stuff but, Ganondorf strives in the air in Melee and Brawl (Since his air game : d-air, u-air is his only good point along with his d-tilt in brawl). Ganondorf jumps around a lot in his games and that's when he gets a bit scary so yeah, cool stuff.

Only in Brawl. But not his general style of play.

Also in Melee because he was suppose to be like that. It was suppose to be made to be that way but he was surprisingly faster than his supposed designed.

Only in Melee, because he was fairly mobile. He wasn't hyper slow, which is what made him worthless in Melee. In Brawl, he was trash tier with Link and Zelda, due to terrible speed and other flaws.

He wasn't hyper slow.

And he wasn't worthless at all in Melee. He's A tier there.

But it should be remembered that in match ups against him, they usually take advantage of his lag, recovery and his general slow-ness. This is not to say that he's incredibly slow like he is in brawl but he was still slow, regardless. He still has the range, power and aerial game to compensate.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It still remained that way in Brawl except with the massive nerf to speed to the point of him being nearly useless in tournaments.

Which is why he sucks and needs to be more mobile.

I was talking about why he remained a clone in Brawl in the first place

Ah.

I never said he was stationary. He's just not as mobile as you're saying.

I disagree. He's either moving or he's not. Mobile only means he moves around. He's mobile among all his fights.

He walks around in sword fights most of the time. Although he jumps around in boss fights, that's pretty much it. He's usually displayed as the towering type. Sometimes, he dashes at you but he's open for punishment (As seen in WW and TP) which is pretty much seen in Smash bros. since his moves have considerable lag which opens for punishment.

That sounds entirely like a mobile guy to me.

Horseback doesn't prove an individual's mobility.

Still overall mobility.

Surprisingly and awesome stuff but, Ganondorf strives in the air in Melee and Brawl (Since his air game : d-air, u-air is his only good point along with his d-tilt in brawl). Ganondorf jumps around a lot in his games and that's when he gets a bit scary so yeah, cool stuff.

He needs to do far more of that to ever be better. He needs the mobility to be less than crap at this point.

Also in Melee because he was suppose to be like that. It was suppose to be made to be that way but he was surprisingly faster than his supposed designed.

I have this feeling that he was "fixed" to be more accurate to how Sakurai wanted him in Brawl. Too bad that was no fix.

He wasn't hyper slow.

Still somewhat slow, but eh. But that's how I view Ike, all versions of adult Link, Marth(Melee only).

And he wasn't worthless at all in Melee. He's A tier there.

Meant to say worthwhile.

But it should be remembered that in match ups against him, they usually take advantage of his lag, recovery and his general slow-ness. This is not to say that he's incredibly slow like he is in brawl but he was still slow, regardless. He still has the range, power and aerial game to compensate.

All the more reason I want him to be mobile, since it still fits him fine, since it's actually something the overall Ganon/Ganondorf character has. They're known for pulling out surprisingly mobile moves.

 

[Berserker.]

Which is why he sucks and needs to be more mobile.

Yepperies.

Ah.

I disagree. He's either moving or he's not. Mobile only means he moves around. He's mobile among all his fights.

Mobility is how mobile someone is. Whether he can move around swiftly or not.

.........

Ah ****, I meant, Ganon is not that agile. Definition of agile is the measure of moving around swiftly which he's capable of. Awesome fact is that Dorf players jump around a lot instead of move on ground for movement. I guess Sakurai got that right. (That's in Melee by the way, unsure about Brawl)

That sounds entirely like a mobile guy to me.

Massive correction on my part

Just remembered that teleporation = hypersonic speed

But really, he's just walking around most of the time in the boss fights which is what got attention from Sakurai and what was be the style of Ganondorf in Melee, Brawl and SSB 4 (Although, overdone in Brawl)

Still overall mobility.

He doesn't ride a horse all the time. Like, Link's hookshot accounts to his mobility and his wing boots whatever you call 'em (He brings them throughout his adventures). I don't know, a horse is not exactly something you can keep in your pocket. Just an erk for me.

If there's anything accounting Ganon's mobility, it's his distance covered due to his size, teleportation (big feat here) and jumping.

But then read what I say above this quote. Ganon's pretty mobile ^^^^

And like I said, he's scary in the air like in Melee and (Sort of) Brawl.

He needs to do far more of that to ever be better. He needs the mobility to be less than crap at this point.

Something similar to Melee (Not the moveset lol)

Ganondorf was slow but not hyper slow but he was ultimately viable. Great example of a slow powerful character that's great.

I have this feeling that he was "fixed" to be more accurate to how Sakurai wanted him in Brawl. Too bad that was no fix.

Sakurai's designs usually are..... flawed.

Eh, you probably get the rest. Smash ball, tripping.

Still somewhat slow, but eh. But that's how I view Ike, all versions of adult Link, Marth(Melee only).

Still unsure about Marth. His attack speed was undeniably one of his main advantages and it was even stated in his description

Meant to say worthwhile.

I nearly got a heart attack there

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yepperies.


Mobility is how mobile someone is. Whether he can move around swiftly or not.

.........

Ah ****, I meant, Ganon is not that agile. Definition of agile is the measure of moving around swiftly which he's capable of. Awesome fact is that Dorf players jump around a lot instead of move on ground for movement. I guess Sakurai got that right. (That's in Melee by the way, unsure about Brawl)

Well, one Ganondorf is agile, which I think fits him just as well, since it's still an in-character thing. To me, anything a Ganondorf does in canon fits them well.

Just remembered that teleporation = hypersonic speed

Depends how it's done. In theory, it sounds the same, but a teleport can actually be something other than speed. Like going from into a door and appear through another one, I.E. Dimension Door. Or traveling around a shadow in the ground to another one, a Shadow Teleport. It's not really speed depending on the type of teleport.

But really, he's just walking around most of the time in the boss fights which is what got attention from Sakurai and what was be the style of Ganondorf in Melee and Brawl.

True. But until he shows up and we see his playstyle in SSB4, I wouldn't assume that. I'm sure he'll come back, but we both know Sakurai's unpredictable. IMO, I think he should've(or should) done(or do) OOT Ganondorf(Melee), Toon Ganondorf(Brawl), then TP Ganondorf(For) in order.

He doesn't ride a horse all the time. Like, Link's hookshot accounts to his mobility and his wing boots whatever you call 'em (He brings them throughout his adventures). I don't know, a horse is not exactly something you can keep in your pocket. Just an erk for me.

Link keeps a Cuccoo in his pocket. I think he could keep a Horse if he wanted. XD And Ganondorf rides a horse in OOT and TP... ironically the games where he isn't super agile(just kind of).

If there's anything accounting Ganon's mobility, it's his distance covered due to his size, teleportation (big feat here) and jumping.

Jumping is Agility, to be fair.

But then read what I say above this quote. Ganon's pretty mobile ^^^^

Right.

And like I said, he's scary in the air like in Melee and (Sort of) Brawl.

Well, if a guy weighing a ton fell on you...

Something similar to Melee (Not the moveset lol)

Ganondorf was slow but not hyper slow but he was ultimately viable. Great example of a slow powerful character that's great.

I felt Donkey Kong still shows this to this day. King Dedede... definitely.

Sakurai's designs usually are..... flawed.

Eh, you probably get the rest. Smash ball, tripping.

Smash Ball is good, but it needs some work. Computers shouldn't be able to easily remove it from you, for starters.

Still unsure about Marth. His attack speed was undeniably one of his main advantages and it was even stated in his description

He is slower than Roy in Melee, however. So it's fair to call him one of the slower ones in that context. Either way, all Links aren't terribly fast, and Ike is pretty slow. For some reason, I used to think Roy was slower. It's probably because he felt heavier in recovery. Maybe his bigger blade gave that impression? Or that his combo attack with his Up B made him look slower? I dunno.

I nearly got a heart attack there

Should I try harder? (just kidding)

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I got a Japanese Ditto through wonder trade.

That bad?

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

I got a Japanese Ditto through wonder trade.

That bad?

If you planned on using the Matsuda method for shinies, then Id say it's the best thing ever. XD

I need a female Chespin from somebody. D:

 

[IsmaR]

Good for Masudaing and because your Pokemon are likelier to produce eggs faster with Pokemon from other trainers.

'Scuse me, I forgot to bring my climbing equipment to scale all these walls of text.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

'Scuse me, I forgot to bring my climbing equipment to scale all these walls of text.

I've done worse. Most of the time, there isn't usually about two sentences after each quote. Sometimes a full paragraph per bit.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

By the way, you guys ever have any luck with the Matsuda method?

Cuz I have a butload of Gibles, and no shiny ones...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

By the way, you guys ever have any luck with the Matsuda method?

Cuz I have a butload of Gibles, and no shiny ones...

I still need to hatch a Female Charmander...

 

[Berserker.]

 

[Pékaßlu]

By the way, you guys ever have any luck with the Matsuda method?

Cuz I have a butload of Gibles, and no shiny ones...

I got my shiny Emolga in 240 eggs

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I got my shiny Emolga in 240 eggs

I'm shocked it took that freakin' long.

Also, they apparently doubled your chance to get a shiny(not counting other methods, like Chain Fishing).

 

[Terrazi Terrajin]

Get your pokémon **** outta here.


We have a homosexual bluenette reveal to mourn over.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

We have a homosexual bluenette reveal to mourn over.

Marff?

Malth?

Marht?

----

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Marff?

Malth?

Marht?

----

Maybe he means Sonic? I mean, he does avoid Amy quite a lot... >_>

 

[Terrazi Terrajin]

Marff?

Malth?

Marht?

----

Math.

 

["Shion"]

Mars, you fools.

 

[ChickenWing13]

Just realized "Marth" spelled backwards is "Thram"

Nd "Ike" backwards is "Eki"

Pretty cool

 

[Sharkarat]

I know this was a few pages ago

So I'd say Wizard's Foot is the perfect name for the move. Warlock Punch is the odd one out.

Do you know what a warlock is?
Because I don't see how thats the odd one.

 

[ChickenWing13]

Yeah

Since when has Ganon mixed potions and used magic wands?

EDIT: Oh oh oh this one slipped my mind..

Spoiler

FLYING ON BROOM STICKS!!!

Damn.. Photoshop would rly come in handy right about now.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Why are we talking about the names of Ganondorf's moves and not the moves themselves?

 

["Shion"]

Just realized "Marth" spelled backwards is "Thram"

Nd "Ike" backwards is "Eki"

Pretty cool

And... Is this supposed to mean anything?

Race car spelled backwards spells 'race car'. Weeee~

 

[ChickenWing13]

And... Is this supposed to mean anything?

Race car spelled backwards spells 'race car'. Weeee~

Yes but I'm to lazy to post their meanings. Sry

Btw I think it would make sense for us to exchange avatars due to our smash mains =p

 

[JamesDNaux]

And... Is this supposed to mean anything?

Race car spelled backwards spells 'race car'. Weeee~

Race car spelled backwards is rac ecar.

I believe Ganondorf could have a good mixture of magic, swordplay, and his old brute strength from Smash. As long as we can do the Dead Man's Volley...

 

[Vintage Creep]

Just realized "Marth" spelled backwards is "Thram"

Nd "Ike" backwards is "Eki"

Pretty cool

 

["Shion"]

They're not changing Ganon. He's been the same for the past 2 games and doesn't show signs if being changed anytime soon.

A change could've been made in brawl, and it wasn't. All we got was a slow, useless character that couldn't hang as well as he did in Melee.

 

[ChickenWing13]

Chair IS pretty interesting though, not gonna lie.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Race car spelled backwards is rac ecar.

I believe Ganondorf could have a good mixture of magic, swordplay, and his old brute strength from Smash. As long as we can do the Dead Man's Volley...

I completely agree. People want all brute strength (a la Captain Ganondorf), all magical attacks, or completely base it on a sword. I think a combination of the three would work perfectly.

They're not changing Ganon. He's been the same for the past 2 games and doesn't show signs if being changed anytime soon.


A change could've been made in brawl, and it wasn't. All we got was a slow, useless character that couldn't hang as well as he did in Melee.

Bowser says hi.

 

[JamesDNaux]

They're not changing Ganon. He's been the same for the past 2 games and doesn't show signs if being changed anytime soon.

A change could've been made in brawl, and it wasn't. All we got was a slow, useless character that couldn't hang as well as he did in Melee.

They aren't changing Bowser, he was the same for the past two games and- OH WAIT!

 

[Delicious Tears]

I predict that Ganondorf will still be similar to Captain Falcon.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Maybe he means Sonic? I mean, he does avoid Amy quite a lot... >_>

She's a literal psycho *****. If you were smart, you'd do the same. XD

 

[ChickenWing13]

I predict that Ganondorf will still be similar to Captain Falcon.

^ This



..better not f*ckin happen!

 

[Diddy Kong]

Just noticed something about Marth: While his design is based off his Fire Emblem: New Mystery of the Emblem – Heroes of Light and Darkness appearance, his sword the Falchion is not (it's more based off of what he's been known for in Melee/Brawl):

Spoiler

Just an FYI.

Dat ain't Falchion.

 

[Sharkarat]

Personally I predict Ganondorf will get some changes, like Pit & Bowser.

 

[ChickenWing13]

She's a literal psycho *****. If you were smart, you'd do the same. XD

Ehh.. I'd screw her first.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I completely agree. People want all brute strength (a la Captain Ganondorf), all magical attacks, or completely base it on a sword. I think a combination of the three would work perfectly.

Keep his tilts, make his smash attacks sword swings, give him a bit more magic energy on his jab. His forward and back airs could be sword swings, up and down stay the same, add magic to the neutral air. His Neutral B would be the Dead Man's Volley, Side B could stay the same, but go further and not leave him helpless. Down B would also stay the same, and Up B could be reworked to combine his sword, magic, and brute strength into some kind of combined recovery.

 

["Shion"]

They aren't changing Bowser, he was the same for the past two games and- OH WAIT!

Obviously you misunderstood.

He won't be getting dynamic changes like many are speculating.

Bowser? He stands taller. Still not much of a change. Is his move set any different compared to the last couple games? Probably not.