Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[Diddy Kong]

Personally I predict Ganondorf will get some changes, like Pit & Bowser.

I think Ness, Yoshi and Zelda will get changes to.

Next veteran: Diddy or Yoshi. Has to happen.

 

[ChickenWing13]

Personally I predict Ganondorf will get some changes, like Pit & Bowser.

Hopefully they decide to get rid of that Fugly a** running animation.

 

["Shion"]

His running animation is sexy as balls.

 

[TumblrFamous]

I think Ness, Yoshi and Zelda will get changes to.

Next veteran: Diddy or Yoshi. Has to happen.

Next veteran is Wario or Zelda.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Obviously you misunderstood.

He won't be getting dynamic changes like many are speculating.

Bowser? He stands taller. Still not much of a change. Is his move set any different compared to the last couple games? Probably not.

Mario still got the FLUDD after two games, Luigi received a few drastic changes, Samus got a whole second form, Kirby has had several different dash attacks throughout Smash, etc. Bowser's change is far more than just a higher stance anyway.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Mario still got the FLUDD after two games, Luigi received a few drastic changes, Samus got a whole second form, Kirby has had several different dash attacks throughout Smash, etc. Bowser's change is far more than just a higher stance anyway.

True. He at least received two new moves, and his stature and build now will completely overhaul his gameplay style.

 

[ChickenWing13]

Keep his tilts, make his smash attacks sword swings, give him a bit more magic energy on his jab. His forward and back airs could be sword swings, up and down stay the same, add magic to the neutral air. His Neutral B would be the Dead Man's Volley, Side B could stay the same, but go further and not leave him helpless. Down B would also stay the same, and Up B could be reworked to combine his sword, magic, and brute strength into some kind of combined recovery.

Agreed on everything except the side B. It should be a clone of Mewtwo's side B.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Next veteran is Wario or Zelda.

No.

See username.

 

[TumblrFamous]

No.

See username.

No. Look into my eyes.

I don't know what I'm doing.

 

[Diddy Kong]

No. Look into my eyes.

I don't know what I'm doing.

Then hereby, I won't look into your eyes.

IT'S NOT MY FAULT!

 

[Big-Cat]

Depending upon how Sakurai designs Zelda will probably give us a good idea how Ganondorf will look. The Zelda art style mystery has been one that has intrigued me for awhile now, and we'll find out a little bit more about that in a little under four weeks from now.

And considering that both Link and Marth received influences from some earlier designs in certain areas, I think it's safe to say Zelda will be getting a similar treatment. I'm expecting Skyward Sword Zelda in Twilight Princess Zelda's clothes. At the very least, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE keep the waifu Zelda personality for her in Smash. Waifu and Tsundere Zelda are the best Zeldas.

I'd definitely call Link and Marth slower ones too. But Ganondorf being a slow sword user is pointless. We have those kind already. We have zero with two swords, which is the only reason to even bother with swords in the first place. If he's just going to be a slow sword user, why bother? He would bring absolutely nothing to the table.

Why add Lil Mac? He just uses fists like the majority of the characters. He would bring absolutely nothing to the table.

No, he doesn't. He was graceful in Wind Waker while still retaining his full characterization as a dictator and a powerhouse. He doesn't chokehold anyone outside of that game either.

I got more "explosive" out of Ganondorf than something Twinkle Toes like. Deliberate movements with a lot of power behind them (see Akira Yuki in Virtua Fighter). Of course, how'd you define graceful is arguably arbitrary. A friend of mine described my Monkey Kung Fu form as an oversized bear fighting gracefully, but I never pictured it as graceful.

His sword bits being graceful while his other attacks being physically brutal fits his characterization perfectly. He isn't "one fighting style" and never was. He has multiples of them throughout the series. This is actually what makes him one of the best final bosses. He can use more than one fighting style, especially with swords, making him a good character overall in design. Also, he looked out of shape while being graceful, which shows that he can do anything regardless of his looks. I never found any of his sword fights great outside of WW, since that's the only challenging one. I actually hate his characterization in other games because he's just a boring as hell overlord that has nothing notable. Yay, he's evil. WW at least gave him something worth noting, like a reason to rule besides to hurt others. Or that we know he'd fully hurt a child instead of stunning them like in OOT. He jumped between a borderline "save lives" to a evil ******* throughout one game and never was one or the other for long. I loved this iteration and I find he deserves his Toon representation, showing off who the real Ganondorf is, an intelligent mastermind who kicks ***, takes names, and nothing stands in his way(and actually shows it instead of it being entirely offscreen). His physical design was also unique by retaining how he was kind of big in his Ganon form, and showed his wise and agile he was, despite all this.

On the bold, this is a very common misconception. The way the art style is in Wind Waker has it to where all the men are top heavy, where their upper bodies make up a large percentage of their height. With the case of Ganondorf, he's not fat, but he does seem slightly stockier than his OoT counterpart. Compare him to the king in Wind Waker and you'll notice that Ganondorf doesn't even have so much as a gut.

I still do not think that going for a Toon Ganondorf (at least under that name) is necessary. Skyward Sword basically allowed a for cel-shaded like appearance with its more saturated color pallet and using mostly realistic proportions. Assuming we do get a Wind Waker moveset based Ganondorf, expect him, to have a more Skyward Sword-Twilight Princess hybrid look to him, but probably not under the Toon Ganondorf name.

If SS Zelda design means we don't get Sheik back like she should be, then it's not worth getting SS Zelda. Having both is what makes her what she is in Smash. Her entire thing is being two specific versions of herself and working together to overcome an opponent by switching among her forms. That's her concept.

Except that concept has hardly worked out in the last two Smash games. Just because the concept is unique does not make it good. Both games favored Sheik more (greatly so in Melee) while Zelda still has way too many flaws on her own. I still strongly believe that making Zelda herself standalone with a standalone Impa (with a Sheik alt. so mostly everyone wins) is the best path to take with her. From there, Zelda REALLY needs to be a set up oriented character. Get the character into a situation like a knockdown and start planting projectiles and traps around the opponent and hit them where they're open. I think that would make for a much more dynamic Zelda.

Obviously you misunderstood.

He won't be getting dynamic changes like many are speculating.

Bowser? He stands taller. Still not much of a change. Is his move set any different compared to the last couple games? Probably not.

Did you not see the Smash 4 Direct video, Mion? We saw at least a handful of his attacks changed. The first big change we saw was his drop kick which appears to be his new FSmash.

 

[Diddy Kong]

HyperFalcon calls Marth slow?

U been on dat MetaKnight again?

If SS Zelda design means we don't get Sheik back like she should be, then it's not worth getting SS Zelda. Having both is what makes her what she is in Smash. Her entire thing is being two specific versions of herself and working together to overcome an opponent by switching among her forms. That's her concept.

Bowser's concept in Melee and Brawl was being a huge target everyone could practice combos against.

Guess they tried to change that to in this game.

 

["Shion"]

I stand corrected. Forget about his forward smash.

I still stand my ground. A slight twerk doesn't mean a complete change.

IMO, Mario's FLUDD is a crap move.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Mario's FLUDD is the biggest eyesore yet out of all veteran's announced moves.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Just give us Little Mac and call it a day until E3.

 

[The Original Robot boy]

Hey guys! I made lyrics!

​

​

Blades, they’re coming at you through the sky​

Better run, and hide from​

Metal, Metal Man​

The conveyer belts want to say hi​

Gonna mess your speed run​

Farm lives, farm farm lives​

​

Metal Man shouldn’t be so easy​

He is weak to his own attack​

But when the floor begins to make you queasy​

You better start watching your- ​

b-b-b-b-back. ​

​

Chandeliers will fall and they’re​

going to shut you down​

There are drilling things all aro-ound​

Metal Metal Metal Metal Metal​

Beat this dude, you’ll be​

toughest guy around​

Beat half the game with the super godly Metal Blade!​

​

What do you think? Also, I'm on topic because Metal Man is a likely music choice for Dr. Wily's Castle.

get it performed by George Andreas and Chris Sutherland and you got yourself a number one song on smash

 

[Alzi]

I hope almost all characters get a buff except for the obvious ones who were greatly OP.

Although most the characters already have good move sets that don't need changing greatly imo.

Also don't know why some people hate mario's fludd, I can't think of a better move to replace it. It actually helps him edge guard quite well. They just need to make it do some damage.

 

[Diddy Kong]

It's novelity, and his old Down B greatly helped him assist in recovery.

 

[Big-Cat]

I stand corrected. Forget about his forward smash.

I still stand my ground. A slight twerk doesn't mean a complete change.

IMO, Mario's FLUDD is a crap move.

I see at least four different changes. An increased running speed, a new Dash Attack, new FSmash, and new (presumably) NAir. That's three out of roughly sixteen attacks, which is about 19% of the moveset that was changed at the very least. That's a pretty large change by fighting game standards. Meanwhile, Pit has gotten a new Side B, new Down B, and possibly some changes to his Up B.

And did you just say slight "twerk"?

Mario wouldn't "need" FLUDD if the game wasn't changed where you can grab the stage with your back facing it. By changing that up, Mario's Side B lost most of its edge guarding ability.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

That's why I'm hoping for Ganondorf to be changed up some more this time. A few move changes and a faster speed can actually change a character more than it would seem at first. And even a small amount of changes doesn't necessarily mean any other characters in need of a revamp won't change much either.


And Ganondorf hasn't been the same for two games. Need I remind you of Flame Choke? How about his Up Smash? Then theres his Forward Tilt.

 

["Shion"]

Yeah, just saw that same video for myself a few minutes ago.

Like I said, I stand corrected.

Op, looks like I did. I meant 'tweak', but I kind of like 'twerk' now.

 

[FalKoopa]

Just get rid of the charging time on Mario's FLUDD. That'll immediately make it more useful for edgeguarding.

 

[ChickenWing13]

Just give us Little Mac and call it a day until E3.

No! Absolutely not! Out of the question! Wtf!?

Give us BERNIE Mac and call it a day!

I hope almost all characters get a buff except for the obvious ones who were greatly OP.

Although most the characters already have good move sets that don't need changing greatly imo.

Also don't know why some people hate mario's fludd, I can't think of a better move to replace it. It actually helps him edge guard quite well. They just need to make it do some damage.

In that case I expect to see Metaknight return with dual-wielding swords.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Any newcomer (or Mewtwo) at this point could hold me down until next E3. So long as it isn't Dr. Kawashima, Reggie, or a Hanafuda card character, I'm good.

 

[Big-Cat]

That's why I'm hoping for Ganondorf to be changed up some more this time. A few move changes and a faster speed can actually change a character more than it would seem at first. And even a small amount of changes doesn't necessarily mean any other characters in need of a revamp won't change much either.


And Ganondorf hasn't been the same for two games. Need I remind you of Flame Choke? How about his Up Smash? Then theres his Forward Tilt.

Or look at just Link. Honestly, all he really needs is improvements in his frame data and a better recovery. The frame data thing is a lot of tweaks here and there, but possibly the only move that would actually need to changed animations wise is his jab.

I don't remember if you remember me saying this, but I think every character's fastest attack needs to be their jab and every character should have a jab that's either three or four frames of startup. Link's jab would actually have to be a jab for this to work.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Or a Mii or PacMan.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

It must be. ¦(

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Or look at just Link. Honestly, all he really needs is improvements in his frame data and a better recovery. The frame data thing is a lot of tweaks here and there, but possibly the only move that would actually need to changed animations wise is his jab.

I don't remember if you remember me saying this, but I think every character's fastest attack needs to be their jab and every character should have a jab that's either three or four frames of startup. Link's jab would actually have to be a jab for this to work.

I'd have to agree there. I think all characters would do well with a jab faster than the rest of their moves.

And it's unfortunate that Link's recovery is still so darn short ranged, though I don't doubt the possibility that it may possibly get increased range before release. Right now I mainly hope play testers don't deem the meteor Smash on Link's dair to be too powerful.

 

[Diddy Kong]

It must be. ¦(

Awesome they used the same voice of Pikachu as here.

 

[Big-Cat]

I'd have to agree there. I think all characters would do well with a jab faster than the rest of their moves.

Not only that, but I find it so freaking stupid that you have some moves that are FASTER than jabs, like I think Zelda, of all characters, has a 1f DSmash. Now what kind of cockamamie logic is that?

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Not only that, but I find it so freaking stupid that you have some moves that are FASTER than jabs, like I think Zelda, of all characters, has a 1f DSmash. Now what kind of cockamamie logic is that?

You'd think someone wearing a gown wouldn't be able to kick that fast and easily.

Also IIRC, R.O.B.'s D-Smash has 1 startup frame as well. It's quite fast for a multi-hitting attack with a vacumm effect.

 

[Demna]

Not only that, but I find it so freaking stupid that you have some moves that are FASTER than jabs, like I think Zelda, of all characters, has a 1f DSmash. Now what kind of cockamamie logic is that?

Zelda's D-smash is 4 frames.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Besides that, it's speed doesn't make it anything better of a move unfortunately.

Zelda is just sooo poorly designed...

 

[ChickenWing13]

Not only that, but I find it so freaking stupid that you have some moves that are FASTER than jabs, like I think Zelda, of all characters, has a 1f DSmash. Now what kind of cockamamie logic is that?

I hate her DSmash soo much.

Btw since we are on this subject, might I bring up the "Invincible" jabs in Brawl? Take Ike for example. The first hit of his jab can't be countered. I think Mario's was the same as well.

Let's see if this makes its way into Sm4sh.

 

[Terrazi Terrajin]

Race car spelled backwards is rac ecar.

I believe Ganondorf could have a good mixture of magic, swordplay, and his old brute strength from Smash. As long as we can do the Dead Man's Volley...

Racecar is actually often one word when used in the sporting sense.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Zelda's DSmash has 4 hit frames I believe. I'm pretty sure it has only one frame of startup though.

 

[ChickenWing13]

Not only that, but I find it so freaking stupid that you have some moves that are FASTER than jabs, like I think Zelda, of all characters, has a 1f DSmash. Now what kind of cockamamie logic is that?

I hate her DSmash soo much.

Btw since we are on this subject, might I bring up the "Invincible" jabs in Brawl? Take Ike for example. The first hit of his jab can't be countered. I think Mario's was the same as well.

Let's see if this makes its way into Sm4sh.

 

[Jaedrik]

Not only that, but I find it so freaking stupid that you have some moves that are FASTER than jabs, like I think Zelda, of all characters, has a 1f DSmash. Now what kind of cockamamie logic is that?

You propose that jabs be the fastest moves on principle, I disagree, Dolphin Slash is a great example of a super fast move that allows Marth to break out of some ridiculous things while maintaining a high risk, and can KO at higher grounded percents. Speed does not need to be proportional to power, range is another factor, trajectory is another, and the list of variables for Smash balance goes on. Smash has a much larger and better list of incomparables than most every other fighting game ever.

 

[ChickenWing13]

I have fun using Zelda. Her Up-B however kills it for me.

PoS phone!!! Work Damn You!

Just realized squirtle is a b*tch!

 

[Diddy Kong]

Just realized squirtle is a b*tch!

U set sumthin?