Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[PsychoIncarnate]

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Mewtwo_(M16)

There are also 2 mewtwo

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

There are multiple Deoxys and Genesect in the anime

So much for your supposed research

Movies =/= Regular Anime. Fail. Unless there's an EPISODE with multiple Deoxys that I missed. There are in the actual Anime, multiple Lugia, arguably more than one of the other Legendary Birds(save Ho-Oh), and that's it that we know of. Regis were shown once, Heatran may have more, but again, shown once, Rotom is only arguably a Legendary in a sense, and has multiples of, and Ash has yet to meet each Legendary in the Anime proper, just dubious canon with the other Movies, which don't tie in directly to the Anime either.

Aren't there multiple Mewtwo's. The one in the First Movie/Special and the one with Awakened form... and the one in Origins too.

No. There is one in the Anime total. The movies, expect the first two, are not canon to the regular Anime. They're unrelated and just for fun. Origins has zip to do with the original Anime and is entirely unrelated.

Deoxys had 2 in the anime. Who knows how many more.

Movies don't count. As noted before. They're fun little things that just star Ash, but have nothing to do with the regular show at all. The only reason the first two count as they were specifically tied into the show. And the second Mewtwo movie is even debatable, but it's a direct sequel to the first, which does happen in accordance with the Anime specifically.

It would be funny if the rest of Tobias' team was filled with Pichu.

Somehow he'd still win.

 

[Conviction]

I would think a structured competitive would somehow keep the hacks out of it.

Are poke tourneys all wifi-based?

 

[κomıc]

Waiting on the fabulous Mega Jynx

 

[Conviction]

Snip

What exactly is going on in your sig?

 

[Reznor]

What exactly is going on in your sig?

Jynx became human and started getting up in some girls grill

 

[Morbi]

Jynx became human and started getting up in some girls grill

Not another Jynx controversy. They will have to recolor her white to finally end it.

 

[kikaru]

Personally I feel like the meta game got slightly more stale in Gen V not because of Stealth Rocks but because of the shift in the metagame that centralizes around weather and bulkiness. While Stealth Rocks does ludicrous damage to a select few Pokemon it does help allow for counterplay against flying types and Levitate avoid all entry hazards completely, especially for flying types carrying Focus Sash or Multiscale.

But to comment on the Stealth Rocks situation I think the best route would be to introduce new attacks that remove entry hazards or lower the damage it does to Pokemon that switch in who are weak to Rock. Unfortunately even if they nerf Stealth Rocks it won't help Pokemon like Charizard climb the tiers very much as he's almost completely overshadowed by Volcarona who has matching speed, higher overall stats, and arguably a strong movepool, but it will help Charizard within lower-tier battles nonetheless.

Now what I dislike about Gen V's meta is insta-gimping of all teams that do not possess weather, it's not to say games are impossible to win but I do agree that the set-up is simply too rewarding. While it's a tricky solution we might see new abilities or attacks that can temporarily negate weather, one idea could be having an ability or attack that will return the weather to normal within x number of turns.

I think the competitive scene this time around is going to be heavily dependent on whether or not Mega Evolutions or which Mega Evolutions are going to be banned for standard competitive play. Some Mega Evolutions I feel are gimped/ less benefited from Mega Evolving compared to their normal counterparts such as Mega Venusaur (Who lacks Chlorophyll) and Mega Garchomp (Whose base speed will most likely be lower than 100) and will most likely be allowed while others such as Mega Blaziken are going to blatantly banned.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Mewtwo_(M16)

There are also 2 mewtwo

Not in the regular anime. The only other movie besides the first two Mewtwo movies, which actually has evidence of being in continuity with the original Anime, and not just "They happen to have Ash", which does not make it canon, fyi.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Mewtwo_(anime) Here's the actual Mewtwo from the Anime itself. This is the only one proven to be in continuity with the regular Anime, as the other Mewtwo has yet to show up in the Anime proper, making its relation to the regular Anime dubious at best. But so were the rest.

 

[MexM]

Hey guys, what starter(s) are you going for in Pokemon X and Y?

I'm planning to buy Pokémon X. As for starters, I was thinking of a Squirtle-Torchic-Chespin trio starter, but MAN, that Mega Charizard X looks so boss.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Nope, movies are canon

 

[Aurane]

Does nothing to hurt overpowered pokemon: Volcarona, Gyrados, Dragonite and co. say hi.
--
Volcarona cannot perform well without scarf or quiver dance, so just wall her with blissey or Heatran. Gyarados can be OHKO'd by an unboosted thunderbolt delivered by almost any electric type, like jolteon, and even with multiscale, Dragonite can still be taken down by Donphan and Mamoswine. Overpowered my ass. You want to know who's overpowered in the OU? No one. That's what Ubers are for.
--
The thing is that for every pokemon it screws over it keeps an obnoxious strategy and pokemon in check. Would you prefer it if pokemon just became a switch out war with no repercussions whatsoever?
--
We clearly have two different definitions of nerf.
--
Also could you imagine how obnoxious focus sash would be? 50% damage does come off as bull****y sometimes but OBVIOUSLY there's no way to counter it right? The thing is, even if the execution wasn't perfect stealth rocks does add in something that was kind of needed,
an entry hazard that a flying//levitating pokemon couldn't laugh in the face of.
And then everyone else gets away with minor damage? That's bull****.
--
The way I see it, stealth rock is a necessary evil more then anything. Personally I'd just opt to make the damage cap at 25% or something like that.
Spikes deals the correct amount of damage through calculations. Stealth rocks could do 2 spikes damage along with hitting flying Pokemon. That's balanced

Answers in bold.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Nope, I'm trolling

Fixed.

Provide proof or shut it. You have nothing here. We know for a fact that only the first two Mewtwo movies are canon due to actual evidence of that Mewtwo showing up.

The rest are entirely dubious and have zero proof, and possibly never will.

The only Legendaries that canonically have shown up with more than one in the Anime proper, and not some movie with dubious canon, are Lugia, possibly the Legendary Birds(we see one of each at a time, but in different regions, so it's possible), and that's actually it. Games and Movies do not count for the regular Anime whatsoever, and never will. There's some that may, like the Regis, Lati@s', Ho-Oh is a huge maybe, some could argue Heatran due to being a lowly Legendary, and that's about it. And pretty much will stay it till Word of God tells us that the Anime and Movies are in the same continuity. Which is probably not going to be true, anyway, since too many characters act like they never saw a Legendary before anyway, despite them seeing it in a previous movie.

Also, post the damn message already. I've hit the post reply button over 5 times now. :|

 

[MargnetMan23]

None of those are overpowered at all. Especially not with Fairy hanging around, making Dragonite kind of lame. But Dragonite has been overrated for a while. All of those are pretty easy to deal with.

Wow. It's as if I said to remove all hazards. ...Oh, wait, I didn't. How could I prefer something I never said. Drop the hyperbolic crap.


Stealth Rock added nothing useful, besides making low-tier Pokemon 100% unplayable.

It's broken crap. 1/16 max damage if it's not going to auto-remove itself. Or 10 damage per turn, and then I would allow typed damage, since it'll be actually weak but still powerful. 30 damage a pop against some Pokemon isn't a bad thing.

The way I see it, Gamefreak already realized how broken it was and had to remove its TM status to try and weaken its usage. They already know it's a problem and they didn't until the competition proved it was broken. I'm also not interested in your obvious hyperbole and strawmanning. Nobody cares. Don't put words into people's mouths here. Some hate its existence, and you gotta deal with that. If it finally gets nerfed to high heaven, which it should by now, you gotta deal with it and find a better out that doesn't ruin low-tier Pokemon while barely affecting high-tier ones. No, Gyarados isn't that freakin' good. A single electric attack turns it to dust. Especially a Special move.

Great scott! They got rid of the TM for it and turned it into a move tutor! Yep, I guess that means they realize drain punch is OP too right? So you're seriously suggesting that 1/16 max damage if it doesn't remove it self when one layer of spikes takes 1/8 damage with ONE LAYER (and this to you, IS COMPLETELY FINE.) Yep, you do realize THAT large of a nerf isn't completely balanced right? And your alternate method would encourage an obnoxious amount of switching thus going against the point of entry hazards in the first place. Yanmega is UU in spite of a 50% stealth rocks weakness. Note that. Charizard is one of the best in NU in spite of a 50% stealth rock weakness note that. Volcarona is one of the best in OU in spite of a 50% stealth rock weakness, NOTE THAT. This topic has been brought up on plenty of forums so I am aware that some people in fact, do not like stealth rocks. AND WHEN THE **** AM I PUTTING WORDS INTO OTHER PEOPLES MOUTHS? Some people don't like stealth rocks? Well OK then, good for them, doesn't mean it's the worst thing to happen to the meta game.

Also at AuraSage

Uber tiers eh? And you do know how many ubers have a stealth rock weakness right? And volcarona needs quiver dance to be good? Yep, just how Blaziken needs speed boost to be good. Just because it relies on a move to make it good DOESN'T MEAN IT'S NOT FREAKIN' GOOD! And also I could bring up salamence... Uber in D/P even though stealth rock had less counters back then. YEP. And also for the spikes comparison, dude, Lucario takes 1/32 of damage from it. It would take 4x that damage from one layer of spikes. Spikes is obnoxious to grounded pokemon and can't do **** to flying pokemon. Stealth Rock kept the flying pokemon from getting to cocky. 25% damage to everything that doesn't levitate DAMN YOU FLYING TYPES! And guess what, this does 25% damage to flying types too, it's just that any other pokemon type unfortunate enough to be weak against flying makes that problem double. HOW IS THAT BULL****? Any pokemon that takes neutral damage gets the effect of 1 layer of spikes!



But really, even if it could've been done differently, you guys simply do not seem to understand the positives of Stealth Rock. Give me a ****ing break. It doesn't need god's giant nerf hammer to the extent that you guys are suggesting but I will concede that it is not perfect as is.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Fixed.

Provide proof or shut it. You have nothing here. We know for a fact that only the first two Mewtwo movies are canon due to actual evidence of that Mewtwo showing up.

The rest are entirely dubious and have zero proof, and possibly never will.

The only Legendaries that canonically have shown up with more than one in the Anime proper, and not some movie with dubious canon, are Lugia, possibly the Legendary Birds(we see one of each at a time, but in different regions, so it's possible), and that's actually it. Games and Movies do not count for the regular Anime whatsoever, and never will. There's some that may, like the Regis, Lati@s', Ho-Oh is a huge maybe, some could argue Heatran due to being a lowly Legendary, and that's about it. And pretty much will stay it till Word of God tells us that the Anime and Movies are in the same continuity. Which is probably not going to be true, anyway, since too many characters act like they never saw a Legendary before anyway, despite them seeing it in a previous movie.

Also, post the damn message already. I've hit the post reply button over 5 times now. :|

I don't need proof.

It's made by the same people and stars the same characters

Where's the proof it's not canon?

 

[CrusherMania1592]

I've been debating on making an all-Fire type team for Pokemon X with Charmander/Torchic/Fennekin with three other fires. Would be an interesting challenge though. I'd like to see a Fire/Water type but meh

 

[LiteralGrill]

And we joke Fire Emblem discussions are bad...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

There are no positives of Stealth Rock. At all.

If a Pokemon themselves is doing too much, move them to another tier. Don't let a move wreck all the low tiers for no reason at all.

This is the issue with supposed moves that "keep things in check". Stealth Rock doesn't keep things in check at all. It ruins almost all but a couple Pokemon, who, if they need a broken move to be kept in check, clearly are just as much of the problem. Also, what AuraSage said is entirely right. Weaken Stealth Rock in some way. If it's going to do typed damage, why can't it do quadruple damage? What kind of bull**** is that? That's actually what makes it most broken. If it could do double damage max, sure, you could say it kept things in check, but that only applies to one Pokemon max. And Flying types are easy to deal with. It's called Smack Down. Same with Levitate Pokemon. They're not a legitimate problem. Volcarona is overrated, as are every Pokemon you listed so far.

Hating on low tiers, which are hurt far more than the high tiers, is just troll logic to me. There is no reason any Pokemon like Charizard, who doesn't even suck, should be entirely unusable. Yes, they did move it to a Move Tutor so it requires a bit more to actually use. For that matter, that was a mistake too. Really, Smogon's biggest mistake is to not ban this piece of crap move so the meta can move on.

 

[κomıc]

What exactly is going on in your sig?

The woman was working out for the big fight.

 

[Conviction]

The woman was working out for the big fight.

Interesting fighting technique

 

[Arcadenik]

Today's topic is Pokemon? Okay... Meowth for Smash! I want to play as Meowth!

 

[MargnetMan23]

There are no positives of Stealth Rock. At all.

You know, I am not the most qualified person to debate this so why don't we go down to smogon or some **** like that because unless Gigalith becomes playable it's obvious this has NOTHING to do with smash even if I admit I'm the one who kind of started this argument. I believe stealth rock could use some sort of nerf but 1/16 damage or whatever you're suggesting is simply taking it to the extreme but stealth rock is NOT bad enough to warrant a ban in its current stage.


... Moving on.

Today's topic is Pokemon? Okay... Meowth for Smash! I want to play as Meowth!

I can get behind that... I just wonder how they could make his specials interesting...

 

[Frostwraith]

I thought everyone wanted to play as Dunsparce, Jynx and Magikarp. Guess I'm wrong then.

 

[Curious Villager]

I thought everyone wanted to play as Dunsparce, Jynx and Magikarp. Guess I'm wrong then.

I want to play as Magcargo.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You know, I am not the most qualified person to debate this so why don't we go down to smogon or some **** like that because unless Gigalith becomes playable it's obvious this has NOTHING to do with smash even if I admit I'm the one who kind of started this argument. I believe stealth rock could use some sort of nerf but 1/16 damage or whatever you're suggesting is simply taking it to the extreme but stealth rock is NOT bad enough to warrant a ban in its current stage.

Yes, yes it is. Too powerful for no setup and makes Mons 100% unplayable. That's entirely needed for a ban. If the only excuse is to make Volcarona, who isn't even a problem, in check, then move it up a tier instead and ban this. That's just a poor excuse.

1/16 is perfectly balanced for a move that hits everyone with typed damage and doesn't go away unless you can remove it yourself, which you can't since a lot of your Pokemon or very quickly defeated by it or the next move before they can remove it. It's broken in its current state and needs to leave or get a fix.

As for Pokemon, I'd rather bring back a lot more before Meowth, as they have more going for them. I like Meowth, but he doesn't hold a candle in importance to the rest. The only Pokemon I'd choose him over at best is Pichu among the rest of the roster among the games. And that's it. And that's only because Pichu is a clone.

 

[Frostwraith]

I want to play as Magcargo.

Newcomer Slugma then.

 

[MargnetMan23]

I want to play as Magcargo.

It can learn stealth rock it'd be way OP >.>

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Pokemon Origins logic

Hydro pump couldn't take out Charizard, but Fire Blast takes out Blastoise

 

[Wario Bros.]

I'm just waiting for the English dub. Not a fan of Japanese dubs.

 

[Morbi]

Pokemon Origins logic

Hydro pump couldn't take out Charizard, but Fire Blast takes out Blastoise

Almost every battle in Origins was a OHKO. Blastoise took that Megaton punch like a champ, but he couldn't take a little bit of Fire. WTH?

 

[FlareHabanero]

I want to play as Magcargo.

Magcargo is Too-Awesome-To-Be-In-This-Game tier.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Almost every battle in Origins was a OHKO. Blastoise took that Megaton punch like a champ, but he couldn't take a little bit of Fire. WTH?

Types aren't everything. Also, Megaton Punch does a lot of damage. Another hit might've worked anyway regardless of the move type. Plus, STAB.

 

[Arcadenik]

I can get behind that... I just wonder how they could make his specials interesting...

B - Uproar
Meowth pulls out his famous guitar from Meowth's Party and starts rocking. Hold down the B button to play the guitar and release the B button to stop playing. Sound waves come from the guitar and they hurt nearby opponents. Sound waves get bigger and bigger the longer the B button is held down... but they will stop getting bigger after five seconds. It is similar to the Barbara the Bat Assist Trophy in Brawl.

Side B - Fury Swipes
Meowth scratches his opponents up to 2 to 5 times depending on the control inputs. Meowth can string together different scratches into a combo. This move controls similarly to Marth's Dancing Blade move.

Up B - Faint Attack
Meowth turns invisible and scratches the opponent and then becomes visible. This is a recovery move that controls similarly to Pikachu's Quick Attack move.

Down B - Payback
Meowth counters physical attacks by shooting coins out of his body like he did in Smash 64. The counterattack deals double damage to the opponents. For example, if Mario's forward smash move deals 15% damage then Meowth's counterattacks with 30% damage.

Final Smash - Pay Day
Meowth spams his Pay Day move like he did in Brawl... the player can control Meowth during the Final Smash... so Meowth can run and jump while throwing coins everywhere.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

I thought everyone wanted to play as Dunsparce, Jynx and Magikarp. Guess I'm wrong then.

Magikarp for S tier confirmed

 

[Arcadenik]

Types aren't everything. Also, Megaton Punch does a lot of damage. Another hit might've worked anyway regardless of the move type. Plus, STAB.

Yes, but sometimes they blatantly violate game rules... I remember one episode where Pikachu was able to defeat a Rhydon with an electric attack. Electric moves should not affect Ground-type Pokemon.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Yes, but sometimes they blatantly violate game rules... I remember one episode where Pikachu was able to defeat a Rhydon with an electric attack. Electric moves should not affect Ground-type Pokemon.

Didn't Pikachu did the same thing to Brock's Onix back when Ash challenged him in a rematch?

 

[LiteralGrill]

Didn't Pikachu did the same thing to Brock's Onix back when Ash challenged him in a rematch?

But it was "raining" with Brock's Onix.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yes, but sometimes they blatantly violate game rules... I remember one episode where Pikachu was able to defeat a Rhydon with an electric attack. Electric moves should not affect Ground-type Pokemon.

The Anime isn't the games. You did forget why, right? The horn was like a lightning rod. The second time this worked was by doing that in Rhydon's mouth of all things. Pikachu's electric attacks barely work against Ground types now.

You have to remember that the Anime and Games aren't the same and don't follow the same rules. Anime logic is just for fun and to make things interesting. A lot of the reasons why Electric attack does nothing to the ground is that it absorbs it. Pokemon not on the ground often are hurt by it in a realistic setting. Not that Pikachu wasn't clearly overpowered, but that doesn't mean Anime should perfectly follow the games. Rule of Drama and such is more interesting.

 

[Arcadenik]

But it was "raining" with Brock's Onix.

I remember how Meowth beat Onix with a simple Normal-type Scratch (it is seriously weak against Rock-type Pokemon) after he threw a bucket of water at Onix.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

The Anime isn't the games. You did forget why, right? The horn was like a lightning rod. The second time this worked was by doing that in Rhydon's mouth of all things. Pikachu's electric attacks barely work against Ground types now.

You have to remember that the Anime and Games aren't the same and don't follow the same rules. Anime logic is just for fun and to make things interesting. A lot of the reasons why Electric attack does nothing to the ground is that it absorbs it. Pokemon not on the ground often are hurt by it in a realistic setting. Not that Pikachu wasn't clearly overpowered, but that doesn't mean Anime should perfectly follow the games. Rule of Drama and such is more interesting.

Lightning Rod draws in all electric attacks, but ground is still immune to them

That's why Rhydon has the ability