Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[Tree Gelbman]

By "More accurately" I mean that people see Paper Mario as his own separate character, yet others as "Just another Mario" told in a different format

However, unlike Toon Link (Only recently) there is no canonical evidence to back either up

Edit: Also, did you just admit that Toon Link couldn't be as different from Link as Paper Mario could be to Mario? 'Cause that's what it looked like you just did

No, I misunderstood you to say that Paper Mario could not be a holy separate character with a different playstyle from Mario.

 

[YoshiSonic]

Yes Toon Link in HD! Oh wait-

Well as long as Ridley isn't getting in I'm ok with these reveals.

But where the f*ck is Yoshi. I'm waiting!

 

[Diddy Kong]

So, next is Impa right?

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Moon
I told you that doubting Toon Link back at the Smash Wii U and 3DS reveal was dumb. Can't say I didn't warn you.

Every new picture I see of Sm4sh, I realize more and more how much Melee and Brawl sucked graphically.
Toon Link is gorgeous.

Eh, Melee was ahead of its' time. Brawl... got nerfed graphically because the Wii is freaking weak as can be, thus, the game looked 3 years outdated.

I say he should be a lightning grappler with high flying techniques. He could be the game's lucha libre character. Technically speaking, we already have the kung-fu fighter (Lucario, but he needs to be more interesting) and the dance fighter (Wii Fit Trainer).

I was just meaning by that, look at how Toon Link fights with his basic attacks in the Wind Waker (HD). Put that in smash. It's a lot of jumping, slashing, and requires a lot of movement, but boy oh boy does that make it more exciting!!!

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

It might be Mewtwo for the release of Pokemon X and Y

 

[bobadz]

You don't need to be a "tournyfag" to realize how much better Toon Link controls compared to adult Link.

 

[Johnknight1]

Olimar, Luigi, Peach, Toon Link
Brawl veteran, Smash 64 veteran, Melee veteran, Brawl veteran

I wonder if the next veteran revealed is from Smash 64... and considering Pokemon X & Y is the next major release... Jigglypuff could be the next veteran confirmed, effectively trolling the fans who expected Mewtwo to get in first.

Not a bad theory. Jigglypuff would be an interesting reveal.

I've been saying for a while to not doubt Jigglypuff as the next character revealed (after the next Zelda character).

If it's not Mewtwo (which would be MAJOR HYPE!!!), the Pokémon that gets revealed is mostly likely Jigglypuff.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

October we're likely to get Sonic/Mewtwo (or P. Trainer).

I can already see newbie ******* complaining...

''WHERE ARE THE NEW PEOPLE?"

Though I feel like Mewtwo might be so fundamentally changed that he could get a video like other planned newcomers.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Problem is that any Mario Party/Kart/sports titles character can do most of those moves.

If Toad has more expanded originality in him that branches off from what started in SMB2, then he could definitely become a unique character that does quite a few things other characters can't do, but as it stands, eh, I'm very doubtful on that proposition.

Same here, unless Sakurai has some crazy as hell ideas for him (see: the Villager, the Wii Fit Trainer, Zero Suit Samus the Ice Climbers, and Captain Falcon).

That or Toad should finally gets some original (exclusive) moves before he ever becomes a playable character.

I'm going through his history and hope to provide some cool things that show he has potential to be unique, I'll put it here later for you to look at.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Sonic and Mewtwo reveal would make it a good month

Though a ROB reveal would make it better

 

[Tree Gelbman]

If ROB gets revealed before game release I imagine he'd just have a random as hell reveal. There's really no way you can hype him, considering he divided the Smash fan base more than any other newcomer in Brawl.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Yes Toon Link in HD! Oh wait-

Well as long as Ridley isn't getting in I'm ok with these reveals.

But where the f*ck is Yoshi. I'm waiting!

Same here homie, same...here.

@ Moon
I told you that doubting Toon Link back at the Smash Wii U and 3DS reveal was dumb. Can't say I didn't warn you.

Honestly, at that point it could go either way. With the Sakurai stating in articles cuts will be made, and the Link + ST Link pic, It's easy to see why people had doubts.
I'm glad it's Toon Link and mot Classic Link though.

 

[bobadz]

So I just checked some other boards to see how they reacted to the toon link reveal. They seem to think he was a waste of a slot.

 

[Big-Cat]

Models, no (sans Smash 3DS). But the coding, frame data, and obviously the moveset are frequently transferred. Plus, it is a lot easier and less time consuming to just "redo" or "slightly change" a character than to make one from scratch.

Pretty much what I'm thinking. I think people assume models are imported and then touched up, but this isn't a Capcom fighter.

I was just meaning by that, look at how Toon Link fights with his basic attacks in the Wind Waker (HD). Put that in smash. It's a lot of jumping, slashing, and requires a lot of movement, but boy oh boy does that make it more exciting!!!

Oh, I'd love that. Honestly, I"d love for more movement heavy characters in the game. It's one reason why Xiaoyu and El Fuerte are my favorite characters in fighting games. Still, there are a number of ways to go about it. Just looking at what we have so far:

Zero Suit Samus - Please, please, PLEASE, make her like her PM incarnation with less whip moves.
Squirtle - LOVE what they did for him in Project M. Make him like that and he's on his way to being a punishing maniac.
Sonic - Reset heavy mutha****a, making DI'ing a beautiful mess.
Tink - Evasive with pokes, bombs, arrows, and boomerangs. Sort of an aggressive zoner.
Toad - A more high risk, high reward evasive character with deadly grapples and combos.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

If ROB gets revealed before game release I imagine he'd just have a random as hell reveal. There's really no way you can hype him, considering he divided the Smash fan base more than any other newcomer in Brawl.

It's more what he stood for then who he was.

With his reveal the Prophet's roster, which was less characters than most people wanted and DIDN'T include a lot of popular choices, was more or less proven true.

I bet if ROB's hadn't been in subspace people wouldn't have been upset as much

 

[The Original Robot boy]

It could be ness since he was a sb64 unlockable character im actually hoping its a newcomer and its Ninten from The first Mother series

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

It could be ness since he was a sb64 unlockable character im actually hoping its a newcomer and its Ninten from The first Mother series

But there isn't any major Mother releases next month

 

[Shorts]

I want Junior and Tingle.

Best way to go. What's the alternative? Toad and Toon Zelda?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I want Junior and Tingle.

Best way to go. What's the alternative? Toad and Toon Zelda?

DIHSO and Impa

 

[Croph]

I say he should be a lightning grappler with high flying techniques. He could be the game's lucha libre character. Technically speaking, we already have the kung-fu fighter (Lucario, but he needs to be more interesting) and the dance fighter (Wii Fit Trainer).

Y'know, I always wanted some sort of physical dancer fighter in Smash. I always loved the concept, especially someone doing some awesome Capoeira ****. And I kinda do see how WFT could fit that archetype. She's certainly agile and uses various physical techniques for her moves. I'm starting to get more interested in her now haha.

 

[Shorts]

If ROB gets revealed before game release I imagine he'd just have a random as hell reveal. There's really no way you can hype him, considering he divided the Smash fan base more than any other newcomer in Brawl.

"Muh Ridley!"

But really though, besides the butthurt, no one really minded. I don't think there was a legitimate "divide".

 

[Johnknight1]

I'm going through his history and hope to provide some cool things that show he has potential to be unique, I'll put it here later for you to look at.

I only cares about moves that only said characters could conceivably do.

I mean literally a ton of the moves Toad could conceivably do that "fit" his character could "fit" many other characters, like Daisy, Waluigi, and Boo.

Honestly, at that point it could go either way.

But it didn't and I knew it, and I was right.

Point is: this game has a budget, and unless Nintendo wants to become a 3rd party, they'll funnel money into it.

 

[Deleted member]

Wind Waker HD... SERIOUSLY. Toon Link, Ike, and Lucario aren't really in the same situation. While link between worlds link is the most recent, WWHD is still very recent so that's hardly comparable to a guy who hasn't gotten any games starring him at all recently. Not saying they won't get in but this means absolutely nothing for their chances.

If anything, I would have argued before Toon Link's confirmation that Lucario and Ike had better chances of getting in due to have everything going for them except being likely low priorities. Toon Link had to deal with competition with Classic Link for the 2nd Link spot and is the only Nintendo veterans I could have seen getting cut for reasons other than time or technical constraints. Toon Link getting in only makes me more confident in Lucario and Ike's return. But then again, the only characters who's cut wouldn't have surprised me anyway are the third-parties (which is a bigger issue than not being "recent").

I still think Toon Link would have returned without Wind Waker HD. The Toon series has become an important part of the Zelda series and I feel that would be enough for him to return anyway. He didn't need the remake for him to return.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

I want Junior and Tingle.

Best way to go. What's the alternative? Toad and Toon Zelda?

Bowser Jr., or DK Jr.? I'm assuming the former.

 

[The Original Robot boy]

But there isn't any major Mother releases next month

Hardy har har

 

[Vinylic.]

But there isn't any major Mother releases next month

Not official, and certainly not next month, but Mother 4 will be released in 2014. I will be playing that game and no one will stop me from playing it unless nintendo does the CnD. :/

Ness is confirmed, Lucas is questionable, and Porky's chances seem slim.

 

[LiteralGrill]

I only cares about moves that only said characters could conceivably do.

I mean literally a ton of the moves Toad could conceivably do that "fit" his character could "fit" many other characters, like Daisy, Waluigi, and Boo.

Don't forget Wario Woods, there's cool stuff to draw on from there. And other little things here and there. I might have an inspiration on how to make him different playstyle wise then any other Smash character.

 

[Deleted member]

Is it just me or is half of Smashboards practically crying with joy over Toon Link and the other half is seething with rage? I wasn't expecting this reaction at all.

It's mostly positive, just that the minority is upset over his return. But eventually, people will get over it. I'm just glad we didn't lose a Nintendo veteran that was at risk.

 

[Johnknight1]

Don't forget Wario Woods, there's cool stuff to draw on from there. And other little things here and there. I might have an inspiration on how to make him different playstyle wise then any other Smash character.

Birdo or Wario could conceivably use Wario Woods moves.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Because Miiverse is drowning in piss at the moment:

 

[LiteralGrill]

Birdo or Wario could conceivably use Wario Woods moves.

Like they would

Besides, it was Toad's staring game. Give me a chance to finish up my typing, I know you especially like characters if they can present something cool, new, and unique in terms of playstyle, I can deliver it.

 

[Demna]

I know I'm late, but I'm so glad that Toon Link is confirmed ! There was a lot of people who doubted his return, but Sakurai proved that any character's return is possible, even if that character is part of a stage.

 

[Moon Monkey]

But it didn't and I knew it, and I was right.

Point is: this game has a budget, and unless Nintendo wants to become a 3rd party, they'll funnel money into it.

Your right, it didn't. And at that point people were split, only going off of hunches and given info. Someone was bound to be wrong.

And whenever Ridley's fate is revealed, people will once again find out if they were right or wrong. That's the nature of the speculation game.

Nintendo is going to put their all into Mario Kart 8 and Smash Bros., they need these games to be a hit if they want the Wii U to do any better than what it is doing right now.
But I don't think having Toon Link would make SSB4 sell anymore then if he wasn't in it.

 

[Shorts]

It's mostly positive, just that the minority is upset over his return. But eventually, people will get over it. I'm just glad we didn't lose a Nintendo veteran that was at risk.

He's just dumb, that's all.

 

[Deleted member]

He's just dumb, that's all.

Could be a lot worse. The choice itself is good, although I would have appreciated him becoming more unique.

 

[Shorts]

Could be a lot worse. The choice itself is good, although I would have appreciated him becoming more unique.

It's as stupid as Ganondorf being a clone. It's dumb. Same with Lucas. I mean, you can excuse Doc, and even the Space Furries. They're going to be cloney, because there isn't much to work with. But the former? No way. They all HEAPS to choose from. So top this, with the fact that I've never been a Tink fan, and there's where my opinion comes from.

I'm not really mad, just.. it's unfortunate.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I know it would be time consuming, but I just kinda wish we could get gameplay videos of every character like they did with MvC3. That way we could see what if any changes were made to veterans of the series.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Surprised John didn't complain about Toon Link's hair.

John, you're obliged to complain about mundane graphical details. Why aren't you doing that?

 

[The Original Robot boy]

So basicallly so this how everyone is feeling towards toon link?

tsk tsk

 

[LiteralGrill]

I think Toad sucks and this is totally a real quote.

Alright man, here's what Toad could offer.

CAPPS'S TOAD MOVESET​

Spoiler

TOAD​

When creating this moveset, I tried to provide as many reference to Toad's past as possible while creating a unique new style of character.

Toad is known for his great strength and speed despite his small size. This immediately reminded me of Pichu in Melee. (I'll be using some of it's moves even and showing it's hitboxes for examples to give an idea what movees will look like) I took the idea of this extremely fast and light character and realized he wouldn't have have fantastic range. To make up for this I allowed his moveset to be a cool combination of trap setting inspired somewhat by Sackboy from PSASBR to get the opponent to fall into your traps and get killed and speeding around trying to keep from being killed at such a light weight.

Weight: 55 (Pichu level)
Fall Speed: 107% (Pichu Level)
Size: Pichu Size
Jump: Force 2.00 (A little under Olimar, Toad is known as the one lacking jump height)
Air Speed: 150 (slighly higher then Yoshi in Brawl, Toad is know for that speed and mobility)
Range: Pichu Level
Shield: Olimar Sized

Wall Jump: Yes
Note: A player may choose to jump or just simply walk up then jump whenever. This references Wario Woods as well as the implied wall jumping Toad does in Super Mario Galaxy 2 scaling a large canyon.

Jump Notes: Toad's double jump will be a Flutter Jump inspired from Toad Jump, a mini game from Super Princess Peach. The second jump will have Toad flail in the air to try and keep up in the air. However unlike Yoshi's, you must mash the jump button to keep him in the air longer, this can allow him to somewhat float like Peach as well if short hopped into and pressed mashed rapidly. The mashing is supposed to resemble having to blow air into the microphone to make him jump in the mini game.

ATTACKS!!!​

​

Neutral A:
Headbutt

Toad jabs his head forward. The move could link into itself if the opponent DIs badly and the player times it right. 1-2% damage per jab.

Hitbox Example
Rapid Attack Example

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Forward Tilt:
Toad Kick

Aimable, Toad shoves his feet forward. Low range and knockback but fast. 8% damage.

Up Tilt:
Mow Down

Toad waves his head up in an arch. Similar hitbox and speed to Jigglypuff's up air. 10% damage

Hitbox Example

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Down Tilt:
Toad's Roundhouse

Toad does a quick roundhouse kick foot extended. Like Jigglypuff's downward aimed F tilt but less range. 6% damage. (Also, the name is a tiny nod to the various houses Toad sells items in in games.)

Hitbox Example

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Dash Attack:
Running Headbutt

A basic dash attack, Toad sticks his head out and trips mid-dash. 8% damage.

Hitbox Example

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Forward Smash:
Spore Shot

Shoots spores in front of him. Can reflect some projectiles similar to Ness's forward smash (to reflect it's reflecting properties shown in Mario Sports Mix) 12% charged, 16% uncharged

Hitbox Example

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Up Smash
Mushroom Rise!

Similar to what he does in Mario Sport Mix, Toad will summon mushrooms raising his hands and sending the enemy upwards. 16% unchanged, 20% charged. Note: subtract 2% and some upward force if Toad's hands hit the player instead of the mushrooms.

Hitbox Example (Imagine a small hutbox above his head area too)

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Down Smash
The Spin

Toad quickly spins in place. It has more range than it appears and has invincibility frames, as well as powerful. 13% uncharged, 17% fully charged.

Hitbox Example

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Ledge Attack
Gets back on the stage with a headbutt. 8% damage

100% Ledge Attack: Flops back on stage, some spores shooting out. These spores have the projectile reflecting properties. 4% damage

Floor Attack:
Poofs our a few spores and pops up. No projectile reflecting properties 2% damage

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NAir
On A Roll!

Toad spins around, this attack has a generous hitbox. 12% damage.

Hitbox Example

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Fair

Toad pushes forwards drilling his head into his target with spores coming out. Abouut 7% damage if all the hitboxes hit. No projectile reflecting properties.

Hitbox Example

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Bair
Glider

Spins in an unusual way hitting the opponent. 12% damage but high ending and landing lag.

Hitbox Example

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Uair
Flip Kick

Does a simple flip kick with lowish knockback similar to Luigi. 6% damage

Hitbox Example (but with feet instead of the tail, slightly lowered range)

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Dair
Spin Jump

Similar to Mario's Mario Tornado, Toad does his own signature spin jump you can see from Mario Sports Mix. 14% if all attacks hit.

Hitbox Example 1 Hitbox Example 2 Hitbox Example 3 (Obviously smaller hitboxes with much less range)

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Pummel: Hit opponent with his head over and over. 2-3% damage per pummel.

Forward Throw
Carry Throw

Picks up his opponent and can run him along and throw him. Similar to DK but he is able to move quite a bit faster. 6% damage, 9% throw.

Up Throw
Pop Em Up

Tosses The opponent up and headbutts them. 10% damage

Down Throw
Eat Spore!

Launches the foe into the ground and shoots out spores. 10% damage

Back Throw

Toad does many rolls backwards and tosses the target. 9% damage.

SPECIALS​

Neutral Special:
Wanda
Game: Wario Woods
Effect: Wanda appears above Toad and drops a bomb he can catch or let drop and explode. This move is like Pikachu's Thunder in a way with the bomb coming down from the sky. The bombs would drop somewhat slowly, and the move would have cooldown so no more then 2 bombs could be falling at once.

If the proper colored bomb lands on a monster in the correct way it will cause a much larger and powerful explosion. If a wrong colored bomb lands on a monster, it falls unaffected to be left on the monster.

Bombs will not explode unless attacked, dropped correctly on a monster, or if it lands on a character while it is dropping.

Just bomb: 5-16%
Bomb WITH monster: 20%

Wanda

-​

Up Special:
Power Squat Jump
Game: Super Mario Bros. 2
Effect: Squats down and begins flashing, charging the jump. When released Toad flies up able to VERY slightly alter his directory left or right. If his head or hands contact a player they will be hit hard into the air.

10% damage

Example

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Down Special:
Head Lamp
Game From: Super Mario Galaxy
Effect: A quick flash of light leaves the enemy stunned! Similar to Mewtwo's Disable, this would lack the projectile properties of the former however and also have slightly improved range.

Example

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Forward Special:
Monster Place
Game: Wario Woods

Effect: Places a Fuzz, Spud, Squeak, Beaker, Scram, Dovo, or Spook directly in front of him. A hybrid of Peach's turnips and D3's Waddle Dee Toss, Toad will place one of these monsters in front of him with the rarity of the monsters from the game effecting the choice. These monsters will not move unless picked up. Only three may be on the field at once. These will absorb some damage, the rarer ones absorbing more before poofing away or exploding from his Neutral B. These will create interesting walls he can try to use to get enemies into his traps.

Fuzz, Spud, Squeak, Beaker, Scram, Dovo, and Spook

TAUNTS​

Taunt: Out Of Bounds Flag
Game From: Mario Golf
Effect: Waves his flag as he does in the Mario Golf games

Picture

Taunt: SERVE!
Game: Virtual Boy Mario Tennis
Effect: Uses his tennis racket to bounce a tennis ball off of the screen
(Toad's first game where he was playable in the series was Mario's Tennis on the Virtual Boy. This is a cool way to refrence "3D" and his first sports playing role)


Taunt: DANCE!
Game: DDR Mario Mix

Effect: Dances just like the first level of DDR Mario Mix

Taunt: HIGH FIVE!
Game: A Bunch
Effect: Toadette jumps out behind him and gives him a quick high five then jumps back

Picture

THOUGHTS​

I think I have shown that Toad can be a very unique character with a cool new playstyle. I'd love some suggestions however, so let me know what you think!