Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Wasn't Mewtwo planned to appear in SSB64? I think it was.

Yes. Notably, Jigglypuff was extremely similar to Kirby in 64(only). So it did make sense she was easier to make. That time. But they are not much alike in Brawl, meaning that reasoning does not exist whatsoever for why Jigglypuff got back in. She's just there first, so had priority. Lord knows Mewtwo is a more important Pokemon as is. And more popular among all the regions. But he wasn't in the first Smash. That's... just how it is.

I'm not sure if that's true or not but if it is, Jigglypuff probably got in for the reason's scatman stated. But in Brawl it's a different playing field. Jigglypuff was not the last character to be added in Brawl mind you, Wolf was (or Sanic but you know the drill) if he thought Jigglypuff and Mewtwo were on an even playing field for priority I think Sakurai would've held off on giving Wolf his time to shine. It's almost like Jigglypuff is basically that smash essential to Sakurai that he only JUST had time for.

I remember reading the interview where Mewtwo was planned, so it's indeed true. And yeah, Mewtwo was not even hard to make. All of his moves were just as easy as Jigglypuff's entirely. If not easier by a bit. So it was, as said, first come, first serve. Original 12 has veteran status that clearly doesn't apply to any other game. Veterans are odd that way.

 

[Zyskyoto]

Edit: DERP DERP DERP

Wow, this is really interesting.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Wow, this is really interesting.

Hush, you.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

DAMMIT! I could've sworn he said Meowth....

The cat's out of the bag now.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

The cat's out of the bag now.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Eye thought you could handle it.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Eye thought you could handle it.

That one doesn't even make sense.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That one doesn't even make sense.

You're giving me the eye. How did I respond? /Don'tExplainTheJoke

 

[Shorts]

For some reason I thought you said Mega Mewtwo X

Maybe you edited it out

I was about to post all the reasons I think Mewtwo X sucks

Ewnoneverever.

I was sincerely disappointed with that Mewtwo.

 

[MargnetMan23]

Ewnoneverever.

I was sincerely disappointed with that Mewtwo.

There's a reason that Mewtwo's X and Y forms as shiek/ZSS style transformations is a god awful idea... OH LET'S CREATE SOMETHING LIKE POKEMON TRAINER EXCEPT WITH MEWTWO FORMS! YAAAAAYYYYY except instead of 3 pokemon that are COMPLETELY different we'll have pokemon that don't do enough to distinguish themselves/warrant the time and effort put into making them! YAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY
Best. Idea. Ever.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I still prefer Y Mewtwo to, just cause I got more used to it now. I like X's dual Psychic / Fighting typing, cause I loved the **** out of Medicham but his design... Bad. I hope newer renders later along the line will make it look better. But as for now, I'm still planning on getting Y whenever I get a 32DS.

 

[Johnknight1]

It's a free win now yes. But knowing Sakurai, he just goes 'oh Diddy's overpowered to those tourney ******s? BAM! Nerf hammer on speed, strenght and everything else'

You mean like what happened with Falco from Melee to Brawl, or Pikachu from any smash game to any other smash game=???

Yes, I've seen PM Sonic. Also stupid broken 2.5 Sonic. That was really terrible.

It wasn't too imbalanced... at least not compared to Meta Knight or Pikachu. Plus, only one person really knew how to take him into overdrive.

The problem was that it was so new, and the next best thing is the 3 best Melee characters (Falco, Fox, and Sheik), all of whom we have 12 years of familiarity with in terms of match up, versus a brand new character.

If we played against that Sonic from 2.5 for say 6 years, we would understand how to approach him a lot better.

 

[Shorts]

There's a reason that Mewtwo's X and Y forms as shiek/ZSS style transformations is a god awful idea... OH LET'S CREATE SOMETHING LIKE POKEMON TRAINER EXCEPT WITH MEWTWO FORMS! YAAAAAYYYYY except instead of 3 pokemon that are COMPLETELY different we'll have pokemon that don't do enough to distinguish themselves/warrant the time and effort put into making them! YAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY
Best. Idea. Ever.

It wouldnt be like Pokemon trainer. I'd be like Zelda/Shiek. Or probably Samus/ZSS. Neither of which have as big of a problem as PT. Pokemon Trainer is in a special class of ******. You cant just be one Pokemon. Switching takes forever, and you have to switch or your PKMN get tired. This would just be transforming.

And I'm getting X for Xerneas. I'll just ask my brther to trade me mewtwonites.

 

[Zyskyoto]

im dead inside

 

[Diddy Kong]

You mean like what happened with Falco from Melee to Brawl, or Pikachu from any smash game to any other smash game=???

It wasn't too imbalanced... at least not compared to Meta Knight or Pikachu. Plus, only one person really knew how to take him into overdrive.

The problem was that it was so new, and the next best thing is the 3 best Melee characters (Falco, Fox, and Sheik), all of whom we have 12 years of familiarity with in terms of match up, versus a brand new character.

If we played against that Sonic from 2.5 for say 6 years, we would understand how to approach him a lot better.

Pikachu got bad nerfs in Melee man. Even though Axe took care of that, I still... Can't really bear playing Melee as Pika again. Kinda sucks.

Falco will forever be high tier if he keeps that Neutral B.

 

[LiteralGrill]

You mean like what happened with Falco from Melee to Brawl, or Pikachu from any smash game to any other smash game=???

Butt we have Namco giving a crap about balance now, I can hope that top tiers shuffle at a bare minimum this game.

 

[Johnknight1]

I still MAYBE questions Jiggs as evidence suggests she barely got into Brawl...

Still no proof on that other than her SSE role, which honestly is overstated (since that seemed to be the thing put in last in the game).

Honestly, I could live without the Ice Climbers. They were cheap as hell, (yeah that's right, I said the c-word) and they made competitive Brawl unfun for me.

Well if we're taking out cheap and unfun characters, let us start with Pit, ROB, King Dedede, and Meta Knight.

Also, Brawl was unfun competitively because either Sakurai wanted to make a troll game, Nintendo's direction and organization for the franchise sucked, Game Arts is a crappy studio that has no place developing a AAA franchise title when it's a D grade studio, or some weird combination of all of that jazz.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

im dead inside

 

[LiteralGrill]

Still no proof on that other than her SSE role, which honestly is overstated (since that seemed to be the thing put in last in the game).

Well if we're taking out cheap and unfun characters, let us start with Pit, ROB, King Dedede, and Meta Knight.

I get MK and D3, why do you have such issue with Pit and ROB?

Also, Brawl was unfun competitively...

To YOU it was. The game was made for a different crowd and different tastes, in that regard it was successful.

 

[Deleted member]

So what are some ways to fix Pokémon Trainer if he returns?

1. Get rid of the stamina. A pointless feature that really shouldn't be there in the first place.
2. Make switching instantaneous. For example, if you want to switch out Ivysaur (we're assuming Red returns with his original Pokémons) with Charizard, instead of having to wait a few seconds before Charizard comes out, have Red immediately unleash Charizard and then instantaneously call back Ivysaur.
3. Have the ability to switch between what Pokémon you want. No more having to switch through two Pokémons to have the one you want to fight with. At the bottom of the screen, perhaps you can pick which Pokémon you want to play as/

 

[Zyskyoto]

The game was made for a different crowd and different tastes, in that regard it was successful.

Brawl haters are unable to see this; no point in trying to reason.

 

[Johnknight1]

Pikachu got bad nerfs in Melee man. Even though Axe took care of that, I still... Can't really bear playing Melee as Pika again. Kinda sucks.

Pikachu is ranked 10th on the tiers out of 26 in Melee and is in the A tier. That's pretty good.

Pikachu still has an amazing recovery, lots of combos, a few kill moves, and is a very fast character that isn't too easy to juggle.

The only thing Pikachu didn't have from Smash 64 is being the best at basically everything and being broken as crap.

Falco will forever be high tier if he keeps that Neutral B.

That and if he remains as dominant in the air as he is.

 

[Zyskyoto]

At the bottom of the screen, perhaps you can pick which Pokémon you want to play as/

You can do this in brawl tho

 

[LiteralGrill]

Brawl haters are unable to see this; no point in trying to reason.

An unfortunate truth. Each smash is glorious in its own way, we're lucky to have so many options to look at when choosing how we like our fight.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Pikachu is ranked 10th on the tiers out of 26 in Melee and is in the A tier. That's pretty good.

Pikachu still has an amazing recovery, lots of combos, a few kill moves, and is a very fast character that isn't too easy to juggle.

The only thing Pikachu didn't have from Smash 64 is being the best at basically everything and being broken as crap.

That and if he remains as dominant in the air as he is.

I found his B Air and F Air nerfs quite hard to deal with to be honest. Then again, this was my 12 year old self speaking. Yes, Pikachu is High Tier now. Awesome how Axe managed to do this all basically on his own.

I think Diddy won't get too much nerfs either. But am still worried that Sakurai will somehow **** him up majorly. In which case, I'd still use him... But still, you know.

 

[Johnknight1]

Butt we have Namco giving a crap about balance now, I can hope that top tiers shuffle at a bare minimum this game.

Eh, they can't really change that unless they change the way Falco's blaster and aerial game works. Those two things are just made to be near the top tier at everything. Not that there is anything wrong with that, because Falco is one of the more enjoyable characters to play as, against, with, or watch in both Melee and Brawl.

Really, they should just continue to make everyone else just better, specifically the Hyrule tier.

I'm not saying you're wrong in that we'll eventually get more than one character per month, I was saying that myself, I just think apart from characters used for promotion (whether for other games like Luigi, or for Smash itself like the 3rd parties - because they're obviously great promotional tools, why do you think they're revealed early but still hidden characters?) Sakurai won't deviate from his plan of attempting to keep hidden characters hidden until the game releases (even though they'll leak).

Eh, I think most of the previously hidden characters will be pre-confirmed, specifically big names and fan favorites like Marth, Sonic, Falco, Ness, Captain Falcon, etc.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

An unfortunate truth. Each smash is glorious in its own way, we're lucky to have so many options to look at when choosing how we like our fight.

Exactly. I found all 3 extremely fun competitively. They each have their own issues, but neither was ultimately bad at all.

Oh, looky, a catastrophe.

 

[Zyskyoto]

An unfortunate truth. Each smash is glorious in its own way, we're lucky to have so many options to look at when choosing how we like our fight.

Pretty much. Don't get me wrong, I love all the Smash games (my preferred one is 64, competitively, tho) but I always get a kick out of Brawl haters and Melee ****-riders that think that more tech skill = a better game.

no seriously, anyone that thinks like that deserves to be shot. not really, but yeah.

 

[Johnknight1]

I get MK and D3, why do you have such issue with Pit and ROB?

Pit was generic and felt awkward, which is why half of his moves were changed. Thank God, because his specials and aerials were awful.

As for ROB, he's your basic generic robot campy character, and quite frankly there is nothing unique about him that makes me want to see him again. Heck, not even the Project M team could really make him feel unique and fully fleshed out (at least not yet).

If I had to cut any character, it would be ROB, because he was just plain awful to watch, play as, play against, play with, and so forth, and he has minimal moveset, play style, or skillset adjustments open to him.

Pit, on the other hand, had tons of awesome stuff from Kid Icarus: Uprising, which is now the basis of all the attacks Pit uses.

To YOU it was. The game was made for a different crowd and different tastes, in that regard it was successful.

Hence why I said "competitive Brawl." It is pretty lulzsy. The best Brawl players I know IRL complain about how poorly it was made more than I do, lol.

An unfortunate truth. Each smash is glorious in its own way, we're lucky to have so many options to look at when choosing how we like our fight.

Ahh duality and self-centered relativism... the greatest myth that humans tend to use as an excuse to feel complimentary towards everything.

Listen, if you think something sucks, just say you think it sucks. If someone gets all pissy about it, tell them its' your opinion, or to piss off.

 

[Zyskyoto]

Ahh duality and self-centered relativism... the greatest myth that humans tend to use as an excuse to feel complimentary towards everything.

...

or he really thinks that each smash is glorious in its own way, and that we're lucky to have so many options to look at when choosing how we like our fight.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Pretty much. Don't get me wrong, I love all the Smash games (my preferred one is 64, competitively, tho) but I always get a kick out of Brawl haters and Melee ****-riders that think that more tech skill = a better game.

no seriously, anyone that thinks like that deserves to be shot. not really, but yeah.

I have no real problems with changing the mechanics from Melee to Brawl, but more like how they did it. I mean, seriously... Melee was indeed all about speed and skill. But Brawl... it was about camping, and throwing items. Big, huge difference there. You may prefer one, but don't tell others what they should think of the matter.

Personally, I still prefer Brawl, slightly. But still...

 

[Johnknight1]

Pretty much. Don't get me wrong, I love all the Smash games (my preferred one is 64, competitively, tho) but I always get a kick out of Brawl haters and Melee ****-riders that think that more tech skill = a better game.

no seriously, anyone that thinks like that deserves to be shot. not really, but yeah.

When did anyone say that=???

Because my opinions on Brawl aren't so much about tech skill as the game design and how it was organized was awful, in which most everyone agrees with me held the game back, along with the fact a D-grade studio that hasn't done jack squat in the gaming world was the primary developer.

Also, tech skill is nice and all, but you need viable options and balance to go along with that, all of which Melee had more of than Brawl. However, people do prefer the toned down style with a closer focus on the chase and bait/defensive heavy/movement heavy tactics of Brawl more, so whateves.

Also, isn't shooting anyone a little drastic over a piece of plastic and cheap metals with a digital media on them=???

or he really thinks that each smash is glorious in its own way, and that we're lucky to have so many options to look at when choosing how we like our fight.

Which is Capps expressing his reality, just like how I expressed yours, and how you expressed yours by wanting people shot.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Eh, they can't really change that unless they change the way Falco's blaster and aerial game works. Those two things are just made to be near the top tier at everything. Not that there is anything wrong with that, because Falco is one of the more enjoyable characters to play as, against, with, or watch in both Melee and Brawl.

Really, they should just continue to make everyone else just better, specifically the Hyrule tier.

You never know honestly. For all we know he gets big changes on some quest to declone him even more or the insanely unlikely happens and he's cut leaving Fox and Wolf (or Krystal if you really want crazy odds.)

Also, I don't enjoy playing as or against Falco at all in either game, I find them to be my most boring matches honestly, but preference is preference.

I would love to see some of the lower characters buffed up myself but there is something to making a character feel right coming from their game, thematic I guess. It does mean some characters will be bad or average forever more then likely.

Pretty much. Don't get me wrong, I love all the Smash games (my preferred one is 64, competitively, tho) but I always get a kick out of Brawl haters and Melee ****-riders that think that more tech skill = a better game.

no seriously, anyone that thinks like that deserves to be shot. not really, but yeah.

I think people just "need" something to fight over, Project M even has haters and such now. It is really sad people can't just boost each other up and coexist. Example: the amount of Brawl players who donated to get Melee at Evo for how hype the story would be and how it would boost the smash scene so much EVEN THOUGH they prefer Brawl. If everyone got along think of what we could do...



As an aside, what would you think happen if Mega Man became the next Meta Knight but EVEN WORSE? Do you think the community could handle having to ban Mega Man after all the hype?

 

[MargnetMan23]

You never know honestly. For all we know he gets big changes on some quest to declone him even more or the insanely unlikely happens and he's cut leaving Fox and Wolf (or Krystal if you really want crazy odds.)

Also, I don't enjoy playing as or against Falco at all in either game, I find them to be my most boring matches honestly, but preference is preference.

I would love to see some of the lower characters buffed up myself but there is something to making a character feel right coming from their game, thematic I guess. It does mean some characters will be bad or average forever more then likely.



I think people just "need" something to fight over, Project M even has haters and such now. It is really sad people can't just boost each other up and coexist. Example: the amount of Brawl players who donated to get Melee at Evo for how hype the story would be and how it would boost the smash scene so much EVEN THOUGH they prefer Brawl. If everyone got along think of what we could do...



As an aside, what would you think happen if Mega Man became the next Meta Knight but EVEN WORSE? Do you think the community could handle having to ban Mega Man after all the hype?

Hmm... for the mega man thing IDK but I REALLY doubt it. He doesn't look fast or combo heavy at all, and any ass with a reflector could probably have a good matchup against him. We might as well question if Link was meta knight tier in the next game while we're at it XD

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

I have no real problems with changing the mechanics from Melee to Brawl, but more like how they did it. I mean, seriously... Melee was indeed all about speed and skill. But Brawl... it was about camping, and throwing items. Big, huge difference there. You may prefer one, but don't tell others what they should think of the matter.

Personally, I still prefer Brawl, slightly. But still...

STOP PREFERRING WHAT I DON'T PREFER.

----

 

[Zyskyoto]

Which is Capps expressing his reality, just like how I expressed yours, and how you expressed yours by wanting people shot.

omfg i was joking

 

[LiteralGrill]

Ahh duality and self-centered relativism... the greatest myth that humans tend to use as an excuse to feel complimentary towards everything.

Listen, if you think something sucks, just say you think it sucks. If someone gets all pissy about it, tell them its' your opinion, or to piss off.

There is a difference I think between expressing an opinion and holding onto a grudge for over 5 years that starts hundreds of page of arguments, pointless insults, and makes our entire community look like idiots. And I'm not saying that to Melee players, some Brawl players can be just as bad.

...

or he really thinks that each smash is glorious in its own way, and that we're lucky to have so many options to look at when choosing how we like our fight.

You got me right there. I sit down and play each game for something different and feel lucky I have a choice in that.

I admit these days being disabled I can't make my hands play Melee or Project M like they used to, I had to give up Pichu for that and just can't play the same. But I love trying my hardest to feel the speed when I want to play till my hands go numb.

Brawl is my pace a bit better, I waste tons off hours just messing around on Random now and learning the ins and outs of every character.

Smash 64 is my favorite, most people always fight between Melee vs Brawl and I wish 64 would be in there. It's special to me and as my hands get worse by the year this may be my only option for competing seriously someday.

(Still wishing someone would make a "Project Isai" for 64 as a Brawl mod but... still )

 

[LiteralGrill]

Hmm... for the mega man thing IDK but I REALLY doubt it. He doesn't look fast or combo heavy at all, and any *** with a reflector could probably have a good matchup against him. We might as well question if Link was meta knight tier in the next game while we're at it XD

I'm not saying this will happen, just curious how people think the community would handle having to ban one of the most hype characters ever to be in smash.

 

[Diddy Kong]

STOP PREFERRING WHAT I DON'T PREFER.

----

I'll call myself a lesbian from now on then...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

STOP PREFERRING WHAT I DON'T PREFER.

----

START EVOLVING!