Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[Robert of Normandy]

Today's what?
TODAY'S WHAT!?!

Today's pic

And yeah, I just noticed it. Toad confirmed

 

[Big-Cat]

Haha, I'm like a huge fan of MMD and, recently, I've become of fan of Vocaloid (thanks to my sister >.> lol). Not gonna happen, but I'd pay whatever to have Miku in Smash. =P

Miku would be awesome, but alas, it'd never happen. For Voca music, I suggest artists like mothy, livetune, cosmos, and there are many more.

So you feel that Roy is not really needed? Would you feel differently if Roy's almost as effective and placement on the tier list is relatively close to Marth's? (So basically it could come down to who's playstyle you prefer to use). Unfortunately, clones were late additions so I understand a bit, but compared to like Dr. Mario and Mario or the other clones, excluding Pichu... like why does Roy fail majorly in comparison to Marth? Was he harder to flesh out?... dunno. But yeah, I really wished Roy was worked on/fleshed out a bit more, in terms of making that crappy tipper work in the long run, etc, etc.

As Habanero said, the problem is that he is an inferior design of Marth essentially. The problem with clones that try to deviate from the original is that you're being different for the sake of being different and you can easily compromise the strategy of the character just to make them different.

I think more would be appreciative of Roy if he were to be more of his own character than a remix of Marth.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

anybody else notice the mushroom on the top right corner on today's

Considering what Sakurai makes, him being on Shrooms wouldn't surprise me.

 

[Oddyesy]

Look at Chrom's physique then look at Marth's. Now look at Chrom, then look at Marth. You'll notice that Chrom is much manlier due to the fact that he uses Old Spice.

Fix'd

 

[Oddyesy]

Sahddup DP

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

I think more would be appreciative of Roy if he were to be more of his own character than a remix of Marth.

There also needs to be somewhere in the contract something that will curb the Pandora's Box of slash fiction (pun shamelessly intended) it will unleash again.

 

[FlareHabanero]

There also needs to be somewhere in the contract something that will curb the Pandora's Box of slash fiction it will unleash again.

B-b-but muh Fastblade x Roy fanfiction.

 

[Big-Cat]

There also needs to be somewhere in the contract something that will curb the Pandora's Box of slash fiction (pun shamelessly intended) it will unleash again.

You can't stop that nor the rock.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Fastblade x Roy fanfiction.

Spoiler

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah, Roy's fine. Don't give a crap if he's a clone either. In a game that has clones without doubt as is. Starting from the Fighting Polygons all the way to the Alloys.

Roy was already unique with his Fire, which was more than enough in the long run. I would've liked Ike more if he didn't suddenly have Fire moves while Roy was mysteriously not in. I'd prefer all 3 back. Although my preferred Fire Emblem roster is Marth, Hector, Lyn. Fourth one can be either Ike or Roy. Both are good choices overall.

 

[Diddy Kong]

You know, I'm not even feeling hype for many newcomers anymore. Mostly am just looking forward to revealed veterans. Even though it's very likely he'll return, I'm mostly looking forward to Diddy's confirmation more than anything. Think I've seriously lowered some expectations for this game's new content. Am more interessted in what it'll play like.

 

[Louie G.]

You know, I'm not even feeling hype for many newcomers anymore. Mostly am just looking forward to revealed veterans. Even though it's very likely he'll return, I'm mostly looking forward to Diddy's confirmation more than anything. Think I've seriously lowered some expectations for this game's new content. Am more interessted in what it'll play like.

Funny, I literally just said this earlier. I am looking more forward to seeing obvious Brawl veterans for confirmation and just because I really love a lot of them.

 

[TheWhiteBowser]

B-b-but muh Fastblade x Roy fanfiction.

Still waiting for that AlphaZealot and Bowser fanfiction...

 

[Big-Cat]

Roy was already unique with his Fire, which was more than enough in the long run. I would've liked Ike more if he didn't suddenly have Fire moves while Roy was mysteriously not in. I'd prefer all 3 back. Although my preferred Fire Emblem roster is Marth, Hector, Lyn. Fourth one can be either Ike or Roy. Both are good choices overall.

How was Roy unique with his fire? At most, it gave some moves multi-hit properties, but it's not like you needed freaking fire to do that thing. It's an aesthetic.

 

[FlareHabanero]

There are certain characters that should be revelaed in order to really put a damper on those morons from GameFAQs and NeoGAF.

Ike is probably the prime example.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

There are certain characters that should be revelaed in order to really put a damper on those morons from GameFAQs and NeoGAF.

Ike is probably the prime example.

I'd think Jigglypuff would be the prime example for GameFAQs.

 

[Oddyesy]

There are certain characters that should be revelaed in order to really put a damper on those morons from GameFAQs and NeoGAF.

Ike is probably the prime example.

... They don't like Ike? I'll be needing the Villager's axe.

 

[TheWhiteBowser]

There are certain characters that should be revelaed in order to really put a damper on those morons from GameFAQs and NeoGAF.

Ike is probably the prime example.

KK I am not joking here I typed in the google image search bar "game faqs" and this was literally the first image in the list.

Spoiler

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

How was Roy unique with his fire? At most, it gave some moves multi-hit properties, but it's not like you needed freaking fire to do that thing. It's an aesthetic.

Are you suggesting that just changing the character model and fire special effects isn't a completely new character worth having as their own? Are you suggesting that giving every character an alternate version with fire special effects and move all their attack sweetspots closer to their hurtboxes isn't a great way to double the roster size?

It just occurred to me that Roy and Marth have two moves with good synergy divided between them - one move for breaking shields and one for smacking the opponent after it's broken (I think.)

 

[Oddyesy]

KK I am not joking here I typed in the google image search bar "game faqs" and this was literally the first image in the list.

Spoiler

Smashboards has now become NSFW. ... Who am I kidding? It's never safe for work, what with your yaoi fanfics.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

How was Roy unique with his fire? At most, it gave some moves multi-hit properties, but it's not like you needed freaking fire to do that thing. It's an aesthetic.

He had it and Marth didn't. I find that unique entirely. I don't care if it's an aesthetic or gameplay difference. Also, his B was quite different from Marth's, the Fire just happened to be the reason why.

The fact it did affect gameplay makes it quite different from an aesthetic in the first place. If it had zero effect, sure. But it doesn't. It's a gameplay difference. Roy should be more unique, obviously, if he comes back for For, but he was not a carbon copy of Marth either. He was just fairly similar. They didn't play the same either, as noted many times by many people. Roy is faster, for starters.

 

[Big-Cat]

Are you suggesting that just changing the character model and fire special effects isn't a completely new character worth having as their own? Are you suggesting that giving every character an alternate version with fire special effects and move all their attack sweetspots closer to their hurtboxes isn't a great way to double the roster size?

It just occurred to me that Roy and Marth have two moves with good synergy divided between them - one move for breaking shields and one for smacking the opponent after it's broken (I think.)

Yes and yes. Quality over quantity, plain and simple. Just adding a few tweaks here and there and making it a new character is just lazy to me.

As for this synergy, does it really hold any relevance? It's not like you can switch in between the two.

He had it and Marth didn't. I find that unique entirely. I don't care if it's an aesthetic or gameplay difference. Also, his B was quite different from Marth's, the Fire just happened to be the reason why.

The fact it did affect gameplay makes it quite different from an aesthetic in the first place. If it had zero effect, sure. But it doesn't. It's a gameplay difference. Roy should be more unique, obviously, if he comes back for For, but he was not a carbon copy of Marth either. He was just fairly similar. They didn't play the same either, as noted many times by many people. Roy is faster, for starters.

But Mario, Zelda, Ness, Capt. Falcon and others also have fire. Why stop at the comparison to Marth?

Fire was NOT the reason why his B is different from Marth's. Again, it's an aesthetic choice. The main difference is that one's a shield breaker and the other is an OHKO. THAT is the main difference between the two. Fire just happened to be there from a FUNCTIONAL standpoint.

 

[Croph]

Miku would be awesome, but alas, it'd never happen. For Voca music, I suggest artists like mothy, livetune, cosmos, and there are many more.

You got me thinking, a Vocaloid stage would be amazing... damn these pipe dreams...

As Habanero said, the problem is that he is an inferior design of Marth essentially. The problem with clones that try to deviate from the original is that you're being different for the sake of being different and you can easily compromise the strategy of the character just to make them different.

I think more would be appreciative of Roy if he were to be more of his own character than a remix of Marth.

I understand. The point I was trying to get at is that Melee's clone were inevitable; Sakurai wanted them in, or else he could have made one(?) totally unique character given the time... Imagine if Sakurai didn't add the clones in Melee (and perhaps made one unique fighter to compensate), would we still see luigified characters like Falco (as he wouldn't have been in Melee. Then again, who knows if we'd seem him in Brawl), deriving from their originals? Hm, Sakurai seems to like having the younger Links be somewhat similar to Link, though.

Anyway, what I'm trying to get at: In Melee, If Roy was wasn't an inferior Marth clone, would people appreciate him more? Compared to all the clones in Melee (excluding Pichu), why is Roy vastly inferior to his original? That's my point. That's all that I'm trying to get at. Falco, Roy, Ganon, etc, all the clones couldn't be unique (unless if, perhaps, the game got delayed, but it seemed like they wanted to rush Melee, as I think they wanted it a launch title). Believe me, in a perfect world, I'd love Smash to not have clones. And yes, I'd love Roy to be unique -- to have a totally revamped moveset. However, I just can't expect him [Roy] to be fully unique of he were to get in though (but perhaps something like a Lucas/Wolf), not after how Ganon (among others) is treated in Brawl (Sakurai could have made Ganon fully unique, I don't think he was rushed on). Perhaps I should have more faith... dunno.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

But Mario, Zelda, Ness, Capt. Falcon and others also have fire. Why stop at the comparison to Marth?

Why start the comparison when they aren't anywhere near similar to Marth VS Roy? Oh, right, because it's a bad idea to talk about something unrelated as if it mattered. This is between Marth and Roy, that's pretty much it.

Fire was NOT the reason why his B is different from Marth's. Again, it's an aesthetic choice. The main difference is that one's a shield breaker and the other is an OHKO. THAT is the main difference between the two. Fire just happened to be there from a FUNCTIONAL standpoint.

I do consider it part of the reason. Can't have an explosion without Fire, after all. Fire and the ability to charge it higher is what made the move different to me. Again, I don't care if it's pure aesthetics or gameplay differences. Want to know why? Because it's still different regardless. That's all that matters to me.

I have never seen a problem with clones in video games, and never will. They're normal and a part of nearly every fighting games in existence. There might be a tiny few without a clone whatsoever, sure, but that doesn't mean they aren't practically a standard anyway. Roy was unique enough to me. That's all there is to it. He was also very awesome in Melee as well. Tiers aren't everything.

 

[Big-Cat]

You got me thinking, a Vocaloid stage would be amazing... damn these pipe dreams...

Then the big question is which song do you use to make a stage?

I understand. The point I was trying to get at is that Melee's clone were inevitable; Sakurai wanted them in, or else he could have made one(?) totally unique character given the time... Imagine if Sakurai didn't add the clones in Melee (and perhaps made one unique fighter to compensate), would we still see luigified characters like Falco (as he wouldn't have been in Melee. Then again, who knows if we'd seem him in Brawl), deriving from their originals? Hm, Sakurai seems to like having the younger Links be somewhat similar to Link, though.

They weren't inevitable. As you said, he could've done the six clones or make one unique character. Now, it was impossible for all six to be unique in the given time frame.

I personally think that we wouldn't have gotten any Luigified playstyles in Brawl. The closest would be anything like Lucas or Wolf.

Anyway, what I'm trying to get at: In Melee, If Roy was wasn't an inferior Marth clone, would people appreciate him more? Compared to all the clones in Melee (excluding Pichu), why is Roy vastly inferior to his original? That's my point. That's all that I'm trying to get at. Falco, Roy, Ganon, etc, all the clones couldn't be unique (unless if, perhaps, the game got delayed, but it seemed like they wanted to rush Melee, as I think they wanted it a launch title). Yes, I'd love Roy to be unique -- to have a totally revamped moveset. However, I just can't expect him [Roy] to be fully unique of he were to get in though (but perhaps something like a Lucas/Wolf), not after how Ganon is treated in Brawl (Sakurai could have made Ganon fully unique, he wasn't rushed on). Perhaps I should have more faith... dunno.

Considering that Falco was by far the most popular clone and is top tier, I think Roy would've held on better if he was more popular.

I'd say have more faith with the Smash 4 team on diversity though. It looks like they're trying to be more diverse with characters if Sakurai's words are any indication. Hell, just look at the first three newcomers. Miss Fit looks to be a Chun-Li like character (very fundamentals heavy with speed). Megaman's gonna be a zoning monster with those metal blades and projectiles in general. Villager looks like he'll be evil with edgeguarding once people realize to plant tress near the edge.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Falco could've been a good choice to declone, just for gameplay reasons. But Roy and Ganondorf could've probably been better with mroe changes.

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

This is kindof a lame debate. I wanted to say something stupid to KumaOso again, but it was just as lame as the debate.

This is now a discussion of how Mewtwo's tail ended up on his head

Spoiler

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

This is kind of a lame debate. I wanted to say something stupid to KumaOso again, but it was just as lame as the debate.

This is now a discussion of how Mewtwo's tail ended up on his head

Spoiler

I forget. Was that X or Y exclusive?

And he Mega-Evolved of course.

 

[Oddyesy]

This is kindof a lame debate. I wanted to say something stupid to KumaOso again, but it was just as lame as the debate.

This is now a discussion of how Mewtwo's tail ended up on his head

Spoiler

Once upon a time there was a Mewtwo. Then there was another Mewtwo. They loved each other very much, but there were some birth defects.

 

[Oddyesy]

Two DPs in under an hour. LEAVE ME ALONE DAMMIT

 

[IsmaR]

I forget. Was that X or Y exclusive?

And he Mega-Evolved of course.

*she

And Y.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

*she

And Y.

It.

And okay. I forgot, no official gender shown. Although it's possible the Megaforme could have one, but... we aren't talking about mental genders, but physical ones anyway. Mewtwo was fairly masculine in Melee, as well as the original version, not to be confused with the Mewtwo from the latest movie, who seems feminine.

Awkward.

I don't remember what the X version looked like. I wonder if the way the Evolution works is that there's one Stone, and it evolves depending the game. A lot worse than simply using a stone/item you usually find in one version, but...

Also, Mewtwo(X/Y version) for Smash For. With two Megaformes, well... I'd like to see more about their moves. Switching between three different versions like Pokemon Trainer could be neat if it has enough unique moves to do so.

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

I forget. Was that X or Y exclusive?

And he Mega-Evolved of course.

Y exclusive. It doesn't make any sense though. Tails belong in the posterior region of an animal. Having a tail on your head runs against every use of the word tail. When you make a decision over a coin flip and someone asks "Heads or Tails?" you can now just say "Mewtwo's head" for both. Did his internal organs get shifted around too? Are his toes so stubby because they're tiny little kidneys?

Falco could've been a good choice to declone, just for gameplay reasons. But Roy and Ganondorf could've probably been better with mroe changes.

Ganondorf was the strange one. Doesn't he have a completely different skeleton yet they gave him the same animations and moveset anyway? He was in the SSE so that suggests to me he wasn't that late of an inclusion. Weird.

 

[Big-Cat]

Why start the comparison when they aren't anywhere near similar to Marth VS Roy? Oh, right, because it's a bad idea to talk about something unrelated as if it mattered. This is between Marth and Roy, that's pretty much it.

When did it stop there? Roy's uniqueness (or lack thereof) is important in relation to the entire roster, not just to his fellow FE characters.

I do consider it part of the reason. Can't have an explosion without Fire, after all. Fire and the ability to charge it higher is what made the move different to me. Again, I don't care if it's pure aesthetics or gameplay differences. Want to know why? Because it's still different regardless. That's all that matters to me.

Magic can do explosions. Yes, it's different, but your reasoning as to why is flawed from a functional standpoint. If I gave Lucario a bunch of blue streaks on all of his moves, does that actually make him anymore different that he was before?

You have to look at it at the most bare level - the hitboxes. The fire effect is not enough to justify saying it's unique. However, it is justifying if you refer to the OHKO property.

I have never seen a problem with clones in video games, and never will. They're normal and a part of nearly every fighting games in existence. There might be a tiny few without a clone whatsoever, sure, but that doesn't mean they aren't practically a standard anyway. Roy was unique enough to me. That's all there is to it. He was also very awesome in Melee as well. Tiers aren't everything.

The reason why clones existed in the past was due to their design origins and nowadays are very different from their original counterparts. There are plenty of fighting games that don't have clones though. Guilty Gear, BlazBlue, Virtua Fighter (though not at first with the Bryants), and Skullgirls all feature a very diverse roster with no clones or luigifications whatsoever.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Y exclusive. It doesn't make any sense though. Tails belong in the posterior region of an animal. Having a tail on your head runs against every use of the word tail. When you make a decision over a coin flip and someone asks "Heads or Tails?" you can now just say "Mewtwo's head" for both. Did his internal organs get shifted around too? Are his toes so stubby because they're tiny little kidneys?

Mewtwo's a Pokemon. They don't make sense.

Ganondorf was the strange one. Doesn't he have a completely different skeleton yet they gave him the same animations and moveset anyway? He was in the SSE so that suggests to me he wasn't that late of an inclusion. Weird.

No. His skeleton/model was very similar to Falcon in the first place. Brawl, though... well, he somewhat changed. Honestly, if the SSE was less concentrated on, he could've been better overall. I wouldn't even care if he was a clone or not, just that he didn't suck so much.

@KumaOso: You're missing the freaking point. The way Roy used Fire was nothing like other characters. I found that entirely unique as is. The fact he had similar animations to Marth meant nothing to me.

As for other clones, yes, they're more or less standard. The reasons ultimately don't matter. They exist in multiple Fighting games. For many reasons. Lack of time, in-game reasons, storyline reasons, whatever. I don't have a problem with it at all. It's fine if you do, but you're trying to convince me of something that won't work. So let's drop this conversation since my stance is made clear; Roy is just as deserving of a Smash character as any other, and he shouldn't be dropped just because he's a clone whatsoever. He wasn't dropped in Brawl because he was a clone anyway. He wasn't as important, that's all.

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

Once upon a time there was a Mewtwo. Then there was another Mewtwo. They loved each other very much, but there were some birth defects.

Looks like they got the distinction backwards because the Y Mewtwo clearly has an extra X chromosome.

Brawl, though...

Yes, that's what I was referring to.

 

[Big-Cat]

Looks like they got the distinction backwards because the Y Mewtwo clearly has an extra X chromosome.

That was something I didn't get. It looks like the two forms should be on the opposite version they're on now.

 

[Oddyesy]

Looks like they got the distinction backwards because the Y Mewtwo clearly has an extra X chromosome.

Oh god what

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

@Quilt: When half of it is about Roy, couldn't tell. XD

Anyway, yeah, I was more disappointed in that fact he sucked. I liked his new moves, but he just couldn't hold a candle to anyone save Zelda at best. Link is a bit more arguable, but boy did they nerf him...

 

[TheWhiteBowser]

None of you know anything about genetics do you?
Y is the male chromosome
X is the female chromosome

Mega Mewtwo X is the real woman!