Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[Conviction]

Is it bad that I chuckled at that cutscene, Kuma?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Probably. Those cutscene graphics don't look much better than the in game ones.

Okay. You can get away with saying that NOW, but back when Final Fantasy 7 was released that was some of the best of the best.

Immersion is important to any media form. That is what gaming is. It's a media form.

If a developer/writer/producer/director/actor/graphics/music can't make you BELIEVE something is real by it's appearance, skills, etc, then your immersion and your fun/atmosphere is ruined.

To simply dismiss graphics because some games with lesser graphics can do this is not the right way to think about this.

Because every little piece of a game/movie/TV Show episode/Book/Comic IS EXTREMELY crucial to the experience.

Bad graphics can be like a bad song choice in a scary scene.

Or a movie falling flat when you go from Meryl Streep being on screen to Lindsay Lohan in the next.

It's the same thing.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Probably. Those cutscene graphics don't look much better than the in game ones.

You don't need better graphics to generate emotional reactions. Just look at games like Thomas Was Alone.

Sometimes graphics CAN affect scenes in that way.

then again there is the ending scene in the Adventure of Link.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I think the word you people are looking for when you say "immersion" should be "engagement."

This is why I like Quest over Brawl. While both are repetitive in their Story modes(well, Quest is one giant story mode, but still), Brawl fails to immerse me into it. The story mode's battle system was extremely different from the regular gameplay, due to the heavy amount of random enemies, the fact my characters suddenly weighed a lot more, and the music was decent at best. Really, music is what gets me into a battle. If the music sucks, I'm probably not going to enjoy it much.

I'm hoping For's story mode fixes the music issue and every area has a different theme.(none of the remix 1, 2, 3 crap) Adventure Mode in Melee didn't have this issue, which made it hugely enjoyable to me. That said, Brawl's cutscenes were cool to an extent.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

This is why I like Quest over Brawl. While both are repetitive in their Story modes(well, Quest is one giant story mode, but still), Brawl fails to immerse me into it. The story mode's battle system was extremely different from the regular gameplay, due to the heavy amount of random enemies, the fact my characters suddenly weighed a lot more, and the music was decent at best. Really, music is what gets me into a battle. If the music sucks, I'm probably not going to enjoy it much.

I'm hoping For's story mode fixes the music issue and every area has a different theme.(none of the remix 1, 2, 3 crap) Adventure Mode in Melee didn't have this issue, which made it hugely enjoyable to me. That said, Brawl's cutscenes were cool to an extent.

Um

Not sure what this has to do with the post you quoted

Did you mean to say Quest 64 is more engaging?

 

[Deleted member]

all because I said something about HD a conversation starts......I'm so legit.

Get off your high horse kid before N3ON bans you, hahahahaha.

Your 'conversation' would never had happened if I hadn't bothered to give you my attention. No need to thank me kiddo, we all deserve a break sometimes.

I think the word you people are looking for when you say "immersion" should be "engagement."

The way Metal is describing it, yes, but not the way I'm describing it. Immersion to me, is lietrally feeling like you're IN the game, once again, Skyrim (and most PC games for that matter - FPS games notably, this is why those genres put a lot of focus on graphics (RPGs and FPSs)).

Trust me, like Habanero's video had said, right now, you can say "graphics don't matter" but that's cause you're seeing it from this standard. But if it weren't for "graphics," you couldn't have the glorious eye-candy that is Muramasa for example:

Or better yet, you know what game really benefits from improved graphics in each installment? Monster Hunter. It's a game that's all about basking in nature and hunting huge monsters, noticing the damage they tale NOT through an HP bar, but by the wounds they recieve from the blows you deliver.

Neither of those are possible without a graphical focus on the games. Like I said, they aren't everything, but they aren't "unimportant" like many say. I for one, welcome the say I can play an HD Monster Hunter, or better yet, a VR Monster Hunter, oh man I relish the day. Especially online like with the WiiU one, I'd never leave my house, that's for sure.

 

[Big-Cat]

Probably. Those cutscene graphics don't look much better than the in game ones.

You don't need better graphics to generate emotional reactions. Just look at games like Thomas Was Alone.

I would greatly disagree. The cutscene graphics were above and beyond the actual in game models. What you're probably forgetting is that the majority of the backgrounds in that game were pre-rendered, not unlike the marketplace in Ocarina of Time.

Sometimes you do and sometimes you don't need graphics and the like to get emotional reactions. It's like comparing the textual description and the visual representation of a scene. Sometimes it works one way or the other. For me, what sells the death scene are the graphics and especially the song that plays. Since then, I have associated her theme to that of a funeral.

Is it bad that I chuckled at that cutscene, Kuma?

Personally? No, but for the time, that was some impressive technology, even with the obvious limitations.

 

[SmasherP82]

I don't wanna be banned *^*

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Trust me, like Habanero's video had said, right now, you can say "graphics don't matter" but that's cause you're seeing it from this standard. But if it weren't for "graphics," you couldn't have the glorious eye-candy that is Muramasa for example:

Muramasa doeasn't have great graphics. It's on the Wii for Christ's sake. Muramasa has great aesthetics. There's a difference.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Muramasa doeasn't have great graphics. It's on the Wii for Christ's sake. Muramasa has great aesthetics. There's a difference.

You're just cutting straws now.

 

[Big-Cat]

Muramasa doeasn't have great graphics. It' son the Wii for Christ's sake. Muramasa has great aesthetics. There's a difference.

Define great graphics. That is some well animated stuff going on in the game. It's only possible due to the increased resolution and memory in comparison to, say, the SNES days.

While we're at it, Skullgirls is another game with excellent graphics for its HD hand-drawn, well animated sprites AND sporting a graphics shader on said sprites.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Um

Not sure what this has to do with the post you quoted

Did you mean to say Quest 64 is more engaging?

Yes. Brawl doesn't scream anything unique to me for the story mode. It's just a beat 'em up... but that's it. The music is so boring that I get bored fast. The gameplay is different enough for each character, obviously, but I can do a lot of different spell combos in Quest anyway, including which spells I learn and when. Quest isn't as diverse, but it has much more interesting story mode music, imo.

Multiplayer-wise, Brawl is more engaging, and arguably the Classic/All-Star too.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Welp, time to take a break from the thread.

I honestly haven't played a great enough variety of games to continue with this discussion.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

You're just cutting straws now.

Not sure what "cutting straws" means. Graphics are the graphical power behind a game's visuals. How the game actually looks is aesthetics. It's possible to have good graphics and bad aesthetics, and vice versa.

Muramasa's graphics aren't super high end, even for the Wii, but it still looks pretty because it has great aesthetics.

 

[Deleted member]

Mmm, to further drive home the point behind graphics, I'll give you guys an example with Skyrim.

Better graphical processing means you can have bigger cities and towns. In fact, one of the reasons the Vanilla towns and cities in Skyrim are so small and lackluster is because the game had to be downscaled to be playable on consoles. Which is really sad, since in a game like Skyrim, where it's trying to be 'realisitic' in that sense, it makes no sense that the Capital City of the world literally has like 6 houses and a Palace. It's game breaking actually, as there's a limit to how far you can suspend your disbelief, the whole experience falls short and it feels cheap.

Play that on PC and add the mods, and suddenly, even the smallest town of Riverwood has like 20 houses, each with different things to go into and explore and look at, a bridge, and just generally more things to make the world FEEL real. Solitde, the capital city, is ENOURMOUS and just bustling with interactions.

These sorts of things are not possible without improved graphics. I'd like to post pictures, but honestly, just head over to the Skyrim nexus and go look at it yourself. There's just WAYY to much to even begin to compare.

Once again, it depends on the game, but improvement is improevment is improvement. I welcome a complete package, and to say graphics are unimportant is rather ignorant. I'd recommend all of you saying that to invest in a gaming PC, and then try saying that to me again.

 

[Deleted member]

Muramasa doeasn't have great graphics. It's on the Wii for Christ's sake. Muramasa has great aesthetics. There's a difference.

Correct, but to allow an artist to be able to express what he wants properly you need to give him the right canvas and tools.

You don't mean to tell me that Muramasa's art style and aesthetics would have been possible on the SNES? Or the N64 for that matter.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

You don't mean to tell me that Muramasa's art style and aesthetics would have been possible on the SNES? Or the N64 for that matter.

Tell me where I said or implied that. Better graphics can lead to better aesthetics, but the two are not the same thing. I think we can all agree that, say, the most recent Medal of Honor looks like $h!t. It has terrible aesthetics, but great graphics. There's a distinction.

 

[lobotheduck21]

A Muramasa sequel would be amazing

that game is very underrated

uh, Great graphics, are nice, and they do help in games (Wind Waker Remake), but as along as the game is fun, I wouldn't mind playing it with 8-Bit graphics or next gen graphics

 

[Big-Cat]

I can't picture playing a game with a 3D world in eight bit graphics.

 

[Deleted member]

Tell me where I said that. Better graphics can lead to better aesthetics, but the two are not the same thing. I think we can all agree that, say, the most recent Medal of Honor looks like $h!t. It has terrible aesthetics, but great graphics. There's a distinction.

I haven't seen anything about the new MoH because honestly I don't care much for FPS games, barring maybe Halo (which should just come over to PC so I can play it again).

But you're missing the point, graphics allow for games to do things that aren't possible without them. Muramasa is honestly a game that has very average gameplay, and it gets repetitive very fast, but guess what. The game is SO pretty, that you remained engaged just to bask in the aesthetic value and atmosphere of the game. It's literally the game's selling point, and honestly, that would not be possible without a benchmark in graphics.

Monster Hunter ALSO has rather meh graphics, but with each instalment, the graphics improve and game GREATLY benefits from that. Why? Because it's a necesity given the game's focus and in fact, the gameplay revolves around and requieres that.

I'm simply trying to prove that graphics are NOT unimportant, as they clearly are. It's not just how pretty things are.

It's how many polygons you can fit into a game, and honestly, in may games, that makes a HUGE difference, once again, I point to Skyrim. Ofc, more polygons means things can be much prettier, but that's a crude oversimplification of the whole issue.

Like I said, this will be the eternal debate, but think about the types of games we've been able to have this last generation because of the graphical benchmarks. Think of the games that simply cannot be run on the Wii due to its poor graphical output (Bayonetta, Metal Gear Solid 4, Dark Souls, etc...).

 

[lobotheduck21]

I can't picture playing a game with a 3D world in eight bit graphics.

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED jk.

just saying, if a game is fun, I won't mind playing it, no matter the graphics

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I can't picture playing a game with a 3D world in eight bit graphics.

I would argue that 8-bit beat 'em ups count as 3D worlds

 

[Deleted member]

A Muramasa sequel would be amazing

that game is very underrated

uh, Great graphics, are nice, and they do help in games (Wind Waker Remake), but as along as the game is fun, I wouldn't mind playing it with 8-Bit graphics or next gen graphics

It's already in development, PS3 I think:

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I can't picture playing a game with a 3D world in eight bit graphics.

I can.

Looks weird as heck though, definetely NOT someting that should be a thing.

 

[Big-Cat]

I would argue that 8-bit beat 'em ups count as 3D worlds

That's more of a perspective trick.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

That's more of a perspective trick.

You do technically have movement along 3 axes, so it is 3D movement.

 

[lobotheduck21]

It's already in development, PS3 I think:

That's dragon's crown, same studio, different game

Kind of ment an actual sequel instead of spiritual

 

[N3ON]

Even though they have many similarities, I wouldn't really call Dragon's Crown a "sequel" to Muramasa. It's not part of the same IP or anything.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

It's already in development, PS3 I think:
*snip*

Dragon's Crown isn't really a sequel to Muramasa though. They just happen to have a similar art style/aesthetic.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Welp, time to take a break from the thread.

I honestly haven't played a great enough variety of games to continue with this discussion.

Why the **** are you such a pansy?

 

[Deleted member]

Even though they have many similarities, I wouldn't really call Dragon's Crown a "sequel" to Muramasa. It's not part of the same IP or anything.

Yeah I know, really, it's more of a sequel to Odin Sphere if anything...

But really, it's Vanillaware and the same beautiful aesthetics, which is good enough in my book. Sure it might not have the Japanese flair, but that's ok.

Anyone know the name of the artist that works on those games btw? I love his work (especially the food, man).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Dragon's Crown isn't really a sequel to Muramasa though. They just happen to have a similar art style/aesthetic.

Being near porn, you mean?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

A Muramasa sequel would be amazing

that game is very underrated

If you're looking for more stuff like Muramasa, check out Odin Sphere or Princess Crown. They're fairly similar from what I've heard.

Being near porn, you mean?

Spoiler

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Why the **** are you such a pansy?

Why the **** not?



In all seriousness, I don't know everything graphics can help with in physics and such, just a few things.

The discussion seems to be turning over to something else now though.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

The discussion seems to be turning over to something else now though.

...Fire Emblem?

 

[FlareHabanero]

...Fire Emblem?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Where the heck do you get all these Fire Emblem pics from?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Where the heck do you get all these Fire Emblem pics from?

Well I get them from Habanero.

I assume he gets the screens from the games on his own.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Where the heck do you get all these Fire Emblem pics from?

Lyn's Mom.