Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[lobotheduck21]

That does not count whatsoever. Especially when he only gets those in Canon during FR/LG as a computer and we only know that after Brawl, which means, due to the timing itself, there is no way Sakurai would've known Red could get that combination as an NPC. So no, does not work whatsoever.

*uh, pokemon yellow and gold

Also doesn't count. G/S/C is never listed. Sakurai would've listed it or actually called him Red. And yes, it does fit Ash's actual set way better than that set. Why? Because he has the exact Pokemon at the exact time with only the exception of Ivysaur. Red never has a Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard at the same time in any given scenario that we could ever know of. That's just baseless information when it comes to Red's stuff.



And we know why he didn't want to. Cause he didn't intend him to be the actual Red, just a class.(which is very clear by the actual description.)



They all make perfect sense. They all are from up to the 3rd Gen., of which Pokemon Trainer takes from. Also, it's possible for any of those Trainers to get those exact starters anyway, so if Red getting that combo is somehow possible, why can't they too?

*so it doesn't count that red gets them from other ways but gold can (no pokemon trainer is definitely not based on brandon, and I don't think lucas was revealed around the time the rostor was made), especially when gold can't without the time machine? (double standard alert)

You play as Blue in the original Pokemon Blue, not Red, remember?

*no, you play as reds sprite, as blue uses gary oaks sprite

Blue was always playable.

*no he wasn't

Silver, however, was not.

*so you can name red blue and that makes blue playable but you can name gold silver and silver is still not playable (double standard alert)

He was the first unplayable Trainer made.

*wrong

Green was also Blue in America.

*true

And then was turned into Leaf for the remakes.

*no, blue still exists in the remakes

As for G/S/C(but not the remakes), it actually is the sequel to the Yellow game,not the Red/Blue/Green, as Red's exact Pokemon match Yellow's combos.Red never officially gets a Pikachu in Red/Blue/Green regardless. Just in Yellow. He also gets the other 3 Pokemon. Espeon is pretty random, though. But since the player always gets an Eevee, it makes sense. As for Snorlax, that has two origins; Since Yellow was based upon the Anime, Ash got a Snorlax. In addition, the player always has a chance for up to two Snorlax in Yellow anyway, so Red getting one makes sense as is. Either way, G/S/C is still based upon the Yellow game, since it's the only game Red could ever get that exact combo without trades/cheating.(Espeon is a notable exception, but technically he can evolve into that in G/S/C, and that's when you face him anyway, so he could've easily evolved it after winning the Pokemon League twice)

*I always thought that, but red really is also the main character in yellow

responses under yours

 

[Big-Cat]

ya, but honestly those trophies are horrible

so did sakurai write the trophies as well as choose them

Given it's Sakurai, it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[Johnknight1]

Oh Goodness Gracious Alive...

...I'm gonna ignore this topic and create my own!

That could be very interesting, though it would need a committee to make sure everything goes smoothly.

And Moonknight and Disfunk as refs. It wouldn't be the same without them.

I will be a ref if need be.

Don't worry, I won't betray anyone. This is Debatemania II, not WrestleMani XVII.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

We're arguing about Pokemon Trainer being Red again?

Really? It's pretty clear he is.

 

[BaPr]

We're arguing about Pokemon Trainer being Red again?

Really? It's pretty clear he is.

That's as wrong as saying Peach is a female! Oh wait.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Also doesn't count. G/S/C is never listed. Sakurai would've listed it or actually called him Red. And yes, it does fit Ash's actual set way better than that set. Why? Because he has the exact Pokemon at the exact time with only the exception of Ivysaur. Red never has a Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard at the same time in any given scenario that we could ever know of. That's just baseless information when it comes to Red's stuff.

Doesn't count??? How so? Pikachu is only listed to be in:

• Pokemon Red/Blue
• Pokemon Diamond/Pearl

Despite the fact that Pikachu is also available in Ruby and G/S/C as well, which isn't listed as well. Being listed means nothing, Link is only recorded in 2 games and he's been in loads, one of the games listed isn't even a game that this link (in the timeline) doesn't appear. The only issue with Ash as you mentioned, the lack of Ivy as you mentioned, but more importantly he hasn't been associated with the video games.

But, Red must have come across Squirtle, Ivy and Charmander, if in G/S/C he has all three fully evolved lines when you face him on Mt. Silver. Like I said, like Link in Zelda, players take control of the character to fulfill his story to ultimately make the character the legend that they would move on to become. The paths players take can vary infinite paths, but still end up at the same results ( It makes sense when you've played games Bioshock Infinite). The red that posses all three starters can be the default path that the creators allowed him to take and appear in HG/SS

But you do have a point, he would have called him Red, or mentioned it.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

And now that Squirtle has gotten your attention for me, may I ask if there is even a point to this argument?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I like how people forget Pokemon Yellow where Red can get all of the Gen 1 starters easily.

 

[Johnknight1]

We're arguing about Pokemon Trainer being Red again?

Really? It's pretty clear he is.

Rule Number One of discussion when HyperFalcon is around: You do not talk about the Pokémon Trainer.

Rule Number Two of discussion when HyperFalcon is around: You DO NOT talk about the Pokémon Trainer.

 

[lobotheduck21]

inb4hypermakesafussaboutuscallinghimred

hate to say I told ya so, but I don't hate saying it, I told ya so

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

no, you play as reds sprite, as blue uses gary oaks sprite

Won't lie, they always looked different to me. My bad on that.

so you can name red blue and that makes blue playable but you can name gold silver and silver is still not playable (double standard alert)

Not what I meant, but that's easily ignorable anyway.

no, blue still exists in the remakes

I was talking about Green, who was a girl in America. Blue is the girl in Japan.(and is otherwise known as Leaf. Also, her original design notably is somewhat re-used for Dawn in Diamond/Pearl/Platinum. Odd.)

I always thought that, but red really is also the main character in yellow

Eeyup. But the ones from G/S/C really are after Yellow, clearly. At least, based upon Yellow specifically. Of course, there's no question it makes just as much sense to be from Red/Blue, but anyway, it makes you wonder why Ash, despite G/S/C's Red being based somewhat upon him to an extent(being based upon the Yellow game which starred Red who was specifically based around Ash, also, Jessie and James only exist in Yellow, making you wonder... were they canon before the remakes happen?)

Anyway, if Sakurai writes the Trophies, doesn't that mean he clearly intended that, even if he made some small errors.(like where some of the Final Smashes came from...) The thing is, when the entire Trophy has a description that is entirely different from what we think the character should be, compared to a small error like the King K. Rool and his Pirate version error, you'd think that such a HUGE error would make just as much sense. Or, to put it another way, a small error isn't that big of a deal. But a huge error... how can something that ridiculously big(PT's entire trophy) be nothing but an error on his part? I really really doubt this since that would mean Sakurai's intentions were wrong entirely. However, since we're talking about what Sakurai intended, and since his intentions are very clear on PT's trophy, calling it wrong just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. I entirely agree he should've made him Red, no doubt. But for some reason(probably as many have said, because you can input a name to play as in Brawl), he just didn't. He just made him some generic guy. Nobody knows why.(he did this to Yoshi too, notably. Which does fit considering the original Yoshi was just a bunch of random ones, and not a specific one that existed. And his own game has a bunch of them and no specific hero either. The most known is the Green Yoshi, obviously. Another interesting note is that every single Pokemon tends to have a generic description for their base trophy. From what I can gather from Sakurai's view, is that all Pokemon characters are just generic races(and a class for Trainer).) I do not agree with how Sakurai does this, but it really does fit what exists in Smash, you know?

 

[Johnknight1]

Spoken like a true member of THE MEN OF MOONKNIGHT lobo. They grow up... oh so fast...

Other M Ridley or no Ridley at all.
Pick your Poison.

I pick not to get poisoned.

It's the right answer the oblivious fools never choose.

Is buff Ridley really hated that much?

I just hate the face and some of the body composition. Other than that I like it. However, I still prefer the classic look, especially if Ridley was more like how he looked in his Melee trophy and in the Melee opening (obviously with better graphics and details, or as I call it, "not Brawl").

I would be quite pleased with a mix of the Melee/Brawl Ridley look and the Other M Ridley, like what Link got with his design.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I still don't see a point to this argument. At all.

Can we all just forget it happened and watch my Charmander perform a dance?

 

[Johnknight1]

*snip*

OH GOD!!! RUNNNNNNNN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!!!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Doesn't count??? How so? Pikachu is only listed to be in:

• Pokemon Red/Blue
• Pokemon Diamond/Pearl

Despite the fact that Pikachu is also available in Ruby and G/S/C as well, which isn't listed as well. Being listed means nothing, Link is only recorded in 2 games and he's been in loads, one of the games listed isn't even a game that this link (in the timeline) doesn't appear. The only issue with Ash as you mentioned, the lack of Ivy as you mentioned, but more importantly he hasn't been associated with the video games.


But, Red must have come across Squirtle, Ivy and Charmander, if in G/S/C he has all three fully evolved lines when you face him on Mt. Silver. Like I said, like Link in Zelda, players take control of the character to fulfill his story to ultimately make the character the legend that they would move on to become. The paths players take can vary infinite paths, but still end up at the same results ( It makes sense when you've played games Bioshock Infinite). The red that posses all three starters can be the default path that the creators allowed him to take and appear in HG/SS

But you do have a point, he would have called him Red, or mentioned it.

But he's not based upon G/S/C, if anything, he'd be based upon Yellow instead. For Trainer, anyway.

And this is why I said the games they come from are simply just about Models in Brawl, and not the character itself.

And yeah, the fact he never calls him Red... despite having his model, was indeed a big mistake. I really hope that if PT comes back(with his Brawl's based design overall. That is, Red's model and Kanto Pokemon), that he either gets completely different costumes(male and maybe female) or he's just called Red. Sakurai just needs to make a statement on him being or not being Red. People kept comparing Trainer to Ash(which other than a similar voice actor, who also worked in the Anime anyway, and having a lineup closely resembling Ash's, and only technically resembling Red's possibly choices... in Yellow, anyway), and he outright denied this fact. It's odd, especially with the cues to Ash too.

 

[lobotheduck21]

Not what I meant, but that's easily ignorable anyway.



I was talking about Green, who was a girl in America. Blue is the girl in Japan.(and is otherwise known as Leaf. Also, her original design notably is somewhat re-used for Dawn in Diamond/Pearl/Platinum. Odd.)

1. What did you mean

2. Green never existed, as she was never in red/blue, however there was a design, but leaf technically didn't exist till leaf green

I kind of wish leaf had some backstory like may, lyra, dawn, and black's female trainer do

edit: fun fact, red's voice actor voiced may in the anime,

also, no way red's voice actor sound like the current ash, it does sound like the second though

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Alright, my last attempt-

This argument angers Bulbasaur.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Rule Number One of discussion when is around: You do not talk about the Impa.

Rule Number Two of discussion when is around: You DO NOT talk about the Impa.

Fixed.

 

[Johnknight1]

^^^ Different game.

From my personal experience, I really wouldn't suggest making negative threads targeted at a certain individual.

I want to make a negative thread about me, and by negative, I mean positive and glowing in reviews of me, THE MEN OF MOONKNIGHT, my (now mostly) bald head that I shaved for THE CUNNING GOD OF DEATH... RIDLEY, Johnknight1 Promotions, LLC, and (THE MEN OF) MOONKNIGHT Promotions, LLC.

But really, it would be funny if we made a fake hate thread for me. I could take it! *poses for the fans*

 

[Swamp Sensei]

OH GOD!!! RUNNNNNNNN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!!!

 

[Fastblade5035]

Alright, my last attempt-

This argument angers Bulbasaur.

Ok, who's the sick ******* who angered the sacred Bulbasaur?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Alright, my last attempt-

This argument angers Bulbasaur.

Calm down bro.

Here take this.

 

[Johnknight1]

Pray he stays away...

There was N3ON vs SmashChu!? Now THAT I wanted to see.

It was the event of the year, and N3ON won after a string 50 punch-kick-knee-armbar-elbow-headbutt-hyper beam-Kamehameha combo.

And fortunately, that saved the BRoom from being all about stupid character speculation based on morons arguing only for their favorite characters instead of debating over characters because movesets/playstyles/skillset potential of characters, gameplay, and all the other important stuff.

Basically, that lead to a monumental power shift in the BRoom that spited SmashChu, and lead us to where we are now.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

1. What did you mean

I forgot you don't play as Blue(outside of Pokemon Stadium, I think you could never use his model/character, and fan games obviously).

2. Green never existed, as she was never in red/blue, however there was a design, but leaf technically didn't exist till leaf green

Yes and no. Blue never existed as a character in Japan. That was the female character. They both existed as the Gary counterpart, but it wasn't till the LG(and I think the Manga had Leaf/Green/Blue first?)

I kind of wish leaf had some backstory like may, lyra, dawn, and black's female trainer do

She's never mentioned in any canon game minus her appearances in FR/LG. She might as well not exist, sadly.

edit: fun fact, red's voice actor voiced may in the anime,

also, no way red's voice actor sound like the current ash, it does sound like the second though

I'm talking about sounding similar to the Ash as of Brawl, not the latest one who didn't exist yet. XD

 

[lobotheduck21]

It was the event of the year, and N3ON won after a string 50 punch-kick-knee-armbar-elbow-headbutt-hyper beam-Kamehameha combo.

And fortunately, that saved the BRoom from being all about stupid character speculation based on morons arguing only for their favorite characters instead of debating over characters because movesets/playstyles/skillset potential of characters, gameplay, and all the other important stuff.

Basically, that lead to a monumental power shift in the BRoom that spited SmashChu, and lead us to where we are now.

I always wanted to read this

Yes and no. Blue never existed as a character in Japan. That was the female character. They both existed as the Gary counterpart, but it wasn't till the LG(and I think the Manga had Leaf/Green/Blue first?)

what? our blue a.k.a. gary oak exists as green in japan
green a.k.a. blue in japan was a random manga character with a random design, until leafgreen/firered came out and they used leafs design

 

[MexM]

My profile picture shows my reaction to today's argument.

 

[Johnknight1]

The only possible conclusion I have for a post like this is that Divine is playing a character and he think he's a heel (pro wrestling term for villain). He used the term botch, suggesting he watches pro wrestling.

Now heel me up,
for thrill and luck,
I'm the champ you nut
so you best listen up.

I'm the C-H-A-M-P Champ
And I bust a dude up when he touches my lamp
And I burn him up, because he's a small ant.

I'm not a heel though son
So you best be done
Or else this saucy face is gonna cook you well done.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

what? our blue a.k.a. gary oak exists as green in japan
green a.k.a. blue in japan was a random manga character with a random design, until leafgreen/firered came out and they used leafs design

That's pretty much what I just said. Anyway, now that we're on the same manga page, we don't need to discuss the Blue/Green point. XD

 

[Johnknight1]

I always wanted to read this

Alas, the new boards preventing me and Iblis from finding it when we looked a month ago.

Was honestly expecting gold trim on the Zelda themedWii U though.

Nintendo won't do that because that's the smart and right thing to do, and they haven't done that with consoles in quite a long time.

It looks like things are heating up in this thread! I think it will be best to hold off and put Diddy Vs Hyper on the Debatamania I card!

I would be willing to be the ring announcer, the match hyper up'er promoter guy for the match, the official/referee, or heck, even the/a judge for this match up if it ever does come to fruition.

Really, I'll do just about anything to get on the DebateMania card to promote my next 234,234,467 title defenses on pay-per-read...

 

[lobotheduck21]

divekick for evo 2014

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Why the hell is blue known as Green in Japan

I always figured Red is red and he starts with a red pokemon, charmander

BUT Blue starts with a blue pokemon, squirtle. He's not green, he's BLUE!

The Japanese are the ones that should change it to the American way, not vice versa

 

[Moon Monkey]

But he's not based upon G/S/C, if anything, he'd be based upon Yellow instead. For Trainer, anyway.

And this is why I said the games they come from are simply just about Models in Brawl, and not the character itself.

And yeah, the fact he never calls him Red... despite having his model, was indeed a big mistake. I really hope that if PT comes back(with his Brawl's based design overall. That is, Red's model and Kanto Pokemon), that he either gets completely different costumes(male and maybe female) or he's just called Red. Sakurai just needs to make a statement on him being or not being Red. People kept comparing Trainer to Ash(which other than a similar voice actor, who also worked in the Anime anyway, and having a lineup closely resembling Ash's, and only technically resembling Red's possibly choices... in Yellow, anyway), and he outright denied this fact. It's odd, especially with the cues to Ash too.

Well i only brought up G/S/C to show that Red manages to get a hold of the starters in his team. So this trainer in the making would be Red in the making Y/B/R/FR/LG that would move on into the sequel G/S/C/HG/SS and be known as the Default Red, Just like how Link is known by default as Link. Some things may be off about PT that don't line up with Red, but what about Young Link who uses fire arrows, last I checked Young Link can only use slingshot.

And this is why I said the games they come from are simply just about Models in Brawl, and not the character itself.

Hmm... I want to agree and disagree on this, I'm gonna have to think about this statement.

But I agree some clarification would be nice, male and female alternate costumes as similarly done with Wario, would help making PT a generic trainer instead of Red.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Subject won't change...no matter how many starters I bring into this...

Welp, I'm out.

 

[Johnknight1]

Honestly, I can't wait to see how Diddy's Fur and Falco's feathers will look.

I can't wait to see Snake's a**!!!

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Subject won't change...no matter how many starters I bring into this...

Welp, I'm out.

Squirtle laughs at your weakness

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Squirtle laughs at your weakness

BUNEARY! Freeze dem Squirtles!

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

BUNEARY! Freeze dem Squirtles!

Ice, on a water pokemon?

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Ice, on a water pokemon?

I haven't used an ice type move before, I just assumed it because ice usually beats water. By freezing.

Anywho, HYPER BEAM.

 

[IsmaR]

Of course Pokemon is weird.

Haven't you seen the fanart?

some of it can be bad...other times it's good...but most groups on DA are (unsurprisingly) a tad messed up...

I've been wanting to post this since the Krystal discussion earlier.

 

[lobotheduck21]

that long wait between changing avatars