Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[Croph]

Imagine if Sakurai called Link "Hero of Hyrule" or "Hyrulean Hero" or some generic title instead?

I honestly don't know why Sakurai didn't call Pokemon Trainer "Red". However, I always took his name symbolically, as he reflects the genericness of the trainer class in the games (as you can name him whatever you want). Sooo, in that sense, I believe that what ever you want to nickname Pokemon Trainer, "Red", "Ash", "Bob", I don't care, isn't wrong (well, as long as it's understandable that it is just a nickname, as in the literal sense, Red and Ash are two different entities all together), as it puts more emphasis on the trainer's genericness and how in the Pokemon games, he reflects the player.

 

[Demna]

Here are my choices:
View attachment 2450
The protagonists plus Champion Blue and N Harmonia.

-I don't have the Kalos Trainer yet, but he'd have Chespin, Fennekin's first evolution, and Froakie's final evolution.

-In my wishlist roster I have the Grovyle from PMD2 as a fighter, which explains why May/Brendan has Treecko and Marshtomp instead of Mudkip and Grovyle.


Oh my word, I thought I was the only guy who wanted N to have Reshiram and Zekrom. Everyone else chooses random Pokemon that he used on his team in Black and White like Roggenrola or Valliluxe. =P

N is the "odd one out", since he doesn't command his Pokemon friends from the background, instead fighting alongside them on the battlefield.
To describe it the best I can: He plays like a mix of the Ice Climbers and the Pokemon Trainers.

I think the Gen III setup would be much more awesome if it was Mudkip-Groovyle-Blaziken instead of Treecko-Marshtomp-Blaziken.
It's better because:
[collapse="A"]Everyone loves Mudkip! :3

[/collapse]
[collapse="B"]This guys is a cool badass

[/collapse]
Missing PMD quite a lot now, it's definitely one of my favorite games. How's the new PMD on the 3DS? Is it worth buying?

 

[BaPr]

Also, R.O.B. just lost his entire race, and was attacked by a bad guy(Ganondorf) at the time. They also probably could tell his sadness from it. I don't think they so much as forgave him as decided to tolerate him for now and work with the guy. I forget if they had to fight Ganondorf before the Ancient Minister revealed his true form or not, though.



That too.

I completely forgot about that. I don't remember exactly what happened cause I haven't played the game in a long time. The whole SSE just seems funny how you can just look someone in the eyes and suddenly, you guys are best friends.

 

[Arcadenik]

Oh, and Link in Melee is not the same Link from Ocarina of Time. Melee Link's trophy doesn't specify Link's adventures in Ocarina of Time. It just talks about how Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf are linked together by the Triforce. It is just a random Link, not the Link from Ocarina of Time. Young Link in Melee is not the same young Link from Ocarina of Time as well. Young Link in Melee is the same Link from the original Zelda game because his Melee trophy said so.

Zelda, Sheik, Ganondorf, and Young Link are the only actual Zelda characters in Melee.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

NO! They are not enough! I want to play as new Pokémon who were not playable in Melee/Brawl. Please Sakurai, give me a new Pokémon to play with... don't make me play with the same Pokémon for a total of 20 years (2001 - 2021) before SSB5.

Heaven forbid we have some consistency with the roster.

 

[lobotheduck21]

Also, R.O.B. just lost his entire race, and was attacked by a bad guy(Ganondorf) at the time. They also probably could tell his sadness from it. I don't think they so much as forgave him as decided to tolerate him for now and work with the guy. I forget if they had to fight Ganondorf before the Ancient Minister revealed his true form or not, though.


That too.

I don't know, because dk literally had to carry the dude away

and ganon attacked with those birds then rob shot them down

imo rob had the best character in SE, although that's not saying much

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Hmm...Well then. Here's a tip for you. Try to make your arguments more focused on people thinking it's Red rather then calling him Red.

We get confusions like this if you don't. Sorry btw.

Other then that, except for calling them stupid, I pretty much agree with you.

The problem is, nobody really specifies they meant a nickname, which is what confused me. My bad. Point does stand regardless.

Excuse me but how isn't PT not Red???

Because he has absolutely nothing in common with Red from FR/LG besides the Model? And possibly the dialogue? His Trophy, Name, and Data all call him Pokemon Trainer, and as pointed out by Lobo, talk about the Class only. There's zero mention of Red in Brawl(and Smash in general), so he can't be Red since there's an entire lack of evidence of him being it.

I don't know, mixing up gameplay is a pretty big error

here's the pt trophy description

A person who raises Pokémon and trains them as partners in battle. In battle, a Trainer gives orders to the Pokémon and uses items. It's not an exaggeration to say battles can be won or lost on a Trainer's single strategic move. Trainers pour their hearts into their Pokémon and share anger, sadness, and joy as they adventure in hopes of becoming Pokémon Masters.

personally, it doesn't seem to talk about him except for the first sentence and more or less talks about all trainers and what trainers do

Actually, kind of seems like what a professor would say at the begining of the game

Pretty much. And it does make sense for Sakurai to do a generic character anyway. I mean, the Zako stuff are all just models anyway. And the generic enemies are nothing special. Not to mention, every character in SSB aren't even the canon version from the actual other games.(Kirby may be an exception, however, as he can use his Smash moves in one of the Kirby games, but that could've been nothing but a Cameo of the Hand Bros. and just a Shout Out)

 

[BaPr]

Mudkip Sceptile and Blaziken would be the best. If it were up to me, it would be torchic, combusken, and Blaziken, because it highlights the important starters

 

[lobotheduck21]

Missing PMD quite a lot now, it's definitely one of my favorite games. How's the new PMD on the 3DS? Is it worth buying?

It got mixed reviews, but then again, so did all the PMD games so

I want some music from that game though

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don't know, because dk literally had to carry the dude away

and ganon attacked with those birds then rob shot them down

imo rob had the best character in SE, although that's not saying much

That makes sense. Yeah, I think they knew it was better to get R.O.B. out of there and then ask questions. Which were probably all off-screen anyway.

I completely forgot about that. I don't remember exactly what happened cause I haven't played the game in a long time. The whole SSE just seems funny how you can just look someone in the eyes and suddenly, you guys are best friends.

This is the issue with lack of dialogue.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Also, R.O.B. just lost his entire race, and was attacked by a bad guy(Ganondorf) at the time. They also probably could tell his sadness from it. I don't think they so much as forgave him as decided to tolerate him for now and work with the guy. I forget if they had to fight Ganondorf before the Ancient Minister revealed his true form or not, though.



That too.

I believe they may have forgiven him for that, and the fact at how it wasn't his fault. Tabuu had threatened to destroy his entire race had he refused to help him in his plan. R.O.B. never wanted to cause that and was trying to save as much of his race as he could, only for Ganondorf to completely kill off his race and consume the Island of Ancients in Subspace.

And I don't think Ganondorf is fought in the SSE, except for the green cloned version of him in The Great Maze.

 

[BaPr]

I believe they may have forgiven him for that, and the fact at how it wasn't his fault. Tabuu had threatened to destroy his entire race had he refused to help him in his plan. R.O.B. never wanted to cause that and was trying to save as much of his race as he could, only for Ganondorf to completely kill off his race and consume the Island of Ancients in Subspace.

And I don't think Ganondorf is fought in the SSE, except for the green cloned version of him in The Great Maze.

Tabuu did that? Was that really in the story?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I believe they may have forgiven him for that, and the fact at how it wasn't his fault. Tabuu had threatened to destroy his entire race had he refused to help him in his plan. R.O.B. never wanted to cause that and was trying to save as much of his race as he could, only for Ganondorf to completely kill off his race and consume the Island of Ancients in Subspace.

And I don't think Ganondorf is fought in the SSE, except for the green cloned version of him in The Great Maze.

They do face Ganondorf and Bowser's airship. They also know Bowser and Wario are their enemy, and later, obviously, Ganondorf. Ancient Minister clearly was a bad guy, till later on during his reveal.

Like I said, I forget if R.O.B. is revealed before the airship battle or after.

 

[lobotheduck21]

That makes sense. Yeah, I think they knew it was better to get R.O.B. out of there and then ask questions. Which were probably all off-screen anyway.


This is the issue with lack of dialogue.

Don't like silent movies

Pretty much. And it does make sense for Sakurai to do a generic character anyway. I mean, the Zako stuff are all just models anyway. And the generic enemies are nothing special. Not to mention, every character in SSB aren't even the canon version from the actual other games.(Kirby may be an exception, however, as he can use his Smash moves in one of the Kirby games, but that could've been nothing but a Cameo of the Hand Bros. and just a Shout Out)

Actually, I was saying it doesn't seem to talk about PT that much,

Anyway though, this really is a pointless argument

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

If it were up to me, it would be torchic, combusken, and Blaziken, because it highlights the important starters

I'd post a GIF of Ash's Sceptile repeatedly banging his head against a tree in frustration (from Cutting the Ties That Bind), but I haven't made it yet...

They do face Ganondorf and Bowser's airship. They also know Bowser and Wario are their enemy, and later, obviously, Ganondorf. Ancient Minister clearly was a bad guy, till later on during his reveal.

Like I said, I forget if R.O.B. is revealed before the airship battle or after.

Before, in the Subspace Bomb Factory.

----

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Tabuu did that? Was that really in the story?

As far as I know, yes.

Why else would the Ancient Minister/R.O.B. activate the Subspace bombs when it cost him the lives of other R.O.B.s? To the very least, it may have been Ganondorf or another high ranking member of the Subspace army that threatened them.

 

[lobotheduck21]

Like I said, I forget if R.O.B. is revealed before the airship battle or after.

before, it was before the meta ridley fight

 

[Moon Monkey]

Because he has absolutely nothing in common with Red from FR/LG besides the Model? And possibly the dialogue? His Trophy, Name, and Data all call him Pokemon Trainer, and as pointed out by Lobo, talk about the Class only. There's zero mention of Red in Brawl(and Smash in general), so he can't be Red since there's an entire lack of evidence of him being it.

So he's a trainer who looks like Red, uses the same Pokes as Red, appears as the same game as Red (FR/LG), nearly identical in every way to Red... but isn't Red?

He must be Red's genetic clone???

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Don't like silent movies

I hate lack of dialogue. Silent Movies still have it.

Actually, I was saying it doesn't seem to talk about PT that much,

Anyway though, this really is a pointless argument

Well, it kind of does, the class itself. But yeah.

Also, thanks for the other information. Yeah, Ganondorf attacked R.O.B., and... ordered him dead, using characters they directly fought(the R.O.B. drones), so he did appear as the bad guy in that case.

So he's a trainer who looks like Red, uses the same Pokes as Red, appears as the same game as Red (FR/LG), nearly identical in every way to Red... but isn't Red?

More, he just looks like Red and that's it. He isn't even identical to Red, he's identical to every single protagonist in the series up to 4th Gen. His Pokemon list do not match the FR/LG game as Red cannot get more than ONE of those actual Pokemon at any time. It's not till HG/SS, which is the direct sequel to FR/LG that he could potentially have them, which did not exist as of Brawl.

He isn't Red regardless. The Trophy outright proves this. His list is pretty much more accurate to Ash's list as of that time(with a slight exception of Ivysaur, who he almost did get in the Anime anyway). It's simply just a Model and nothing more, sadly.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I'd post a GIF of Ash's Sceptile repeatedly banging his head against a tree in frustration (from Cutting the Ties That Bind), but I haven't made it yet...


----

Are you actually gonna make a GIF of that?

I look forward to it if so.

 

[lobotheduck21]

the only problem I have with saying pokemon trainer being generic is you never run into someone who looks like that except in multiplayer

 

[Smooth Criminal]

REPRESENT!

*nods at his signature.*

Smooth Criminal

 

[BaPr]

As far as I know, yes.

Why else would the Ancient Minister/R.O.B. activate the Subspace bombs when it cost him the lives of other R.O.B.s? To the very least, it may have been Ganondorf or another high ranking member of the Subspace army that threatened them.

lol, ganondorf is a high ranking character, but his tier says otherwise. I guess that makes sense. Also, the R.O.B thing is true, why else would he kill his own kind. I would'v probably broken down if I was told to do that. Either way, that robot is awesome.

I'd post a GIF of Ash's Sceptile repeatedly banging his head against a tree in frustration (from Cutting the Ties That Bind), but I haven't made it yet...

Okay, Ash's sceptile was pretty cool. It still didn't have that low, epic voice like Blaziken. Just hearing him go "BLAZE!!!" was epic

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

the only problem I have with saying pokemon trainer being generic is you never run into someone who looks like that except in multiplayer

Well, that's why I said there was an issue with his costumes. Every single one should have been different instead of being yet another coloring of Red's model. Huge mistake. It could've just had Blue, Gold, Silver, and Green/Leaf too.

 

[lobotheduck21]

I hate lack of dialogue. Silent Movies still have it.






Well, it kind of does, the class itself. But yeah.

More, he just looks like Red and that's it. He isn't even identical to Red, he's identical to every single protagonist in the series up to 4th Gen. His Pokemon list do not match the FR/LG game as Red cannot get more than ONE of those actual Pokemon at any time. It's not till HG/SS, which is the direct sequel to FR/LG that he could potentially have them, which did not exist as of Brawl.


He isn't Red regardless. The Trophy outright proves this. His list is pretty much more accurate to Ash's list as of that time(with a slight exception of Ivysaur, who he almost did get in the Anime anyway). It's simply just a Model and nothing more, sadly.

doesn't look like gen 3, and wouldn't look be based on gen 4, because only lucario was gen 4 character revealed at that time the roster was decided

uh, did you play gold or silver? because he gets all 3 in that game.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

doesn't look like gen 3, and wouldn't look be based on gen 4, because only lucario was gen 4 character revealed at that time the roster was decided

uh, did you play gold or silver? because he gets all 3 in that game.

Tell me what game Pokemon Trainer is from. ...FR/LG only. It never mentions Gold/Silver, which is the issue here. Sakurai just doesn't give enough information about the character being Red, which is the issue in itself. All we know is where the Model is blatantly from(FR/LG) and that he is described as nothing but a simple Class. Which while I do not agree with how Sakurai did it, it doesn't change how he clearly did it. -_-

 

[KingofPhantoms]

As good as I am with Ivysaur and Charizard in Brawl, (and as much fun as I have playing as them) at times I wish their evolutions were switched around, mainly so I can get a playable Charmander.

I can't tell who I would want to play as more, Plusle & Minun as an Ice Climbers-type character or Charmander.

Luxray wouldn't be half bad either. Why is it I like wolves, lions, and dragons so much?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Um, I don't really wanna get involved in this stupid debate, but I gotta be nitpicky:

More, he just looks like Red and that's it. He isn't even identical to Red, he's identical to every single protagonist in the series up to 4th Gen. His Pokemon list do not match the FR/LG game as Red cannot get more than ONE of those actual Pokemon at any time. It's not till HG/SS, which is the direct sequel to FR/LG that he could potentially have them, which did not exist as of Brawl.

Um you know there's this great thing in Pokemon called trading, it lets you get things like multiple starters. Just sayin'.

 

[Khoru]

falcon you're arguing with semantics on trophies, which, having been shown to be an inaccurate source of information (both with descriptions and appearances of characters), is not the most sensical thing to do

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I have no plans to say anything about Pokemon Trainer's identity.

Just his Pokemon. Nothing more.

 

[lobotheduck21]

Tell me what game Pokemon Trainer is from. ...FR/LG only. It never mentions Gold/Silver, which is the issue here. Sakurai just doesn't give enough information about the character being Red, which is the issue in itself. All we know is where the Model is blatantly from(FR/LG) and that he is described as nothing but a simple Class. Which while I do not agree with how Sakurai did it, it doesn't change how he clearly did it. -_-

each character only has 2 games listed under it at the most

the luigi trophy has mario bros and luigi's mansion, don't mean he's from to games only

obviously leaf green/ fire red is a remake of red/blue and heartgold/soulsilver is a remake of gold/silver

 

[Deleted member]

Because having Gold, Lucas, Brendan, etc. using Gen 1 starters makes a lot of ****ing sense. Only thing that would work is having the female FR/LG Trainer with a seperate set of voice clips. And then people can say it's Red all they want; the 'Pokémon Trainer' name would just refer to the fact it's the player character while being gender-neutral. Blue wouldn't work; he's the 'Rival Trainer', a NPC.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

each character only has 2 games listed under it at the most

the luigi trophy has mario bros and luigi's mansion, don't mean he's from to games only

obviously leaf green/ fire red is a remake of red/blue and heartgold/soulsilver is a remake of gold/silver

Except FR/LG is listed as one game on PT's trophy rather than two, so Sakurai could've listen R/B if he wanted to.

 

[lobotheduck21]

Except FR/LG is listed as one game on PT's trophy rather than two, so Sakurai could've listen R/B if he wanted to.

ya, but honestly those trophies are horrible

so did sakurai write the trophies as well as choose them

 

[Moon Monkey]

More, he just looks like Red and that's it. He isn't even identical to Red, he's identical to every single protagonist in the series up to 4th Gen. His Pokemon list do not match the FR/LG game as Red cannot get more than ONE of those actual Pokemon at any time. It's not till HG/SS, which is the direct sequel to FR/LG that he could potentially have them, which did not exist as of Brawl.

He can be based off of the Red from G/S/C. Which is considered to be the sequel of remake of the game you play as red.

The Trophy description describes him as trainer aspiring to be a Pokemon Master, which would explain why Ivy and Squirtle aren't fully evolved.

Who also has the Starters in his list. The Trophy bullets LG/FR because you actually take control of Red and his journey to the top free to name and do what you want, take different paths but ultimately end up in the Pokemon Master, similar to Link who you can name whatever you want and do what ever you want, but still end up as the hero of courage

 

[BaPr]

Guys, Pokemon itself is just weird.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Guys, Pokemon itself is just weird.

Of course Pokemon is weird.

Haven't you seen the fanart?

some of it can be bad...other times it's good...but most groups on DA are (unsurprisingly) a tad messed up...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Um, I don't really wanna get involved in this stupid debate, but I gotta be nitpicky:

Um you know there's this great thing in Pokemon called trading, it lets you get things like multiple starters. Just sayin'.

That does not count whatsoever. Especially when he only gets those in Canon during FR/LG as a computer and we only know that after Brawl, which means, due to the timing itself, there is no way Sakurai would've known Red could get that combination as an NPC. So no, does not work whatsoever.

He can be based off of the Red from G/S/C. Which is considered to be the sequel of remake of the game you play as red.

The Trophy description describes him as trainer aspiring to be a Pokemon Master, which would explain why Ivy and Squirtle aren't fully evolved.

Who also has the Starters in his list. The Trophy bullets LG/FR because you actually take control of Red and his journey to the top free to name and do what you want, take different paths but ultimately end up in the Pokemon Master, similar to Link who you can name whatever you want and do what ever you want, but still end up as the hero of courage

Also doesn't count. G/S/C is never listed. Sakurai would've listed it or actually called him Red. And yes, it does fit Ash's actual set way better than that set. Why? Because he has the exact Pokemon at the exact time with only the exception of Ivysaur. Red never has a Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard at the same time in any given scenario that we could ever know of. That's just baseless information when it comes to Red's stuff.

Except FR/LG is listed as one game on PT's trophy rather than two, so Sakurai could've listen R/B if he wanted to.

And we know why he didn't want to. Cause he didn't intend him to be the actual Red, just a class.(which is very clear by the actual description.)

Because having Gold, Lucas, Brendan, etc. using Gen 1 starters makes a lot of ****ing sense. Only thing that would work is having the female FR/LG Trainer with a seperate set of voice clips. And then people can say it's Red all they want; the 'Pokémon Trainer' name would just refer to the fact it's the player character while being gender-neutral. Blue wouldn't work; he's the 'Rival Trainer', a NPC.

They all make perfect sense. They all are from up to the 3rd Gen., of which Pokemon Trainer takes from. Also, it's possible for any of those Trainers to get those exact starters anyway, so if Red getting that combo is somehow possible, why can't they too? You play as Blue in the original Pokemon Blue, not Red, remember? Blue was always playable. Silver, however, was not. He was the first unplayable Trainer made. Green was also Blue in America. And then was turned into Leaf for the remakes. As for G/S/C(but not the remakes), it actually is the sequel to the Yellow game, not the Red/Blue/Green, as Red's exact Pokemon match Yellow's combos. Red never officially gets a Pikachu in Red/Blue/Green regardless. Just in Yellow. He also gets the other 3 Pokemon. Espeon is pretty random, though. But since the player always gets an Eevee, it makes sense. As for Snorlax, that has two origins; Since Yellow was based upon the Anime, Ash got a Snorlax. In addition, the player always has a chance for up to two Snorlax in Yellow anyway, so Red getting one makes sense as is. Either way, G/S/C is still based upon the Yellow game, since it's the only game Red could ever get that exact combo without trades/cheating.(Espeon is a notable exception, but technically he can evolve into that in G/S/C, and that's when you face him anyway, so he could've easily evolved it after winning the Pokemon League twice)

 

[BaPr]

Of course Pokemon is weird.

Haven't you seen the fanart?

some of it can be bad...other times it's good...but most groups on DA are (unsurprisingly) a tad messed up...

You know what else is weird? Sega isn't making any movies. Look at the intro of Sonic 06.

 

[Johnknight1]

Why do you care so bad?

Anyways, pretty much, I saw what I expected from Divine (who by the way, is a HORRIBLE Christian since he claims himself to be godlike, and that's breaking one of the ****ing COMMANDMENTS)

Well I am Godlike because I am a God, and boy do I have a Godlike offer for a man who would be God for you...

Though the announcer thing, I did not expect; that was so damn hilarious.

GoldenYuiitusin,
as a representative of MOONKNIGHT Promotion,
in partnership with the World Boxing Association, the World Boxing Organization, the Nevada State Athletic Commission, the Worldwide Wrestling Federation, the Ultimate Fighting Championship, Golden Boy Promotions, the World Health Organization, the National Football League, the English Premiere League, the Galactic Rebel Alliance, Bikini Bottom, Gotham City, the Avengers, and Secret Penis, Incorporated,
I would like to offer you a dream match for the ages for prestige and glory beyond measure...

...a championship match against Fastblade...

...for the FIRST EVER UNDISPUTED QUOTING CHAMPIONSHIP BELT OF THE SMASH WORLD!!!

And Swamp, while I am proud of how you handled yourself, you are right in that I'm going to say you're stupid for going through the "challenge" in the first place.

Well similarly you would be stupid not to take me up on this offer.

Because this is an offer for you to go from a big time contender to A WORLD CHAMPION!!!

C'mon Goldy, take a shot at the belt, and prove that you have the stuffs to be a real Smash LEGEND!!!