Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[Rebellious Treecko]

And, personal choices for PKMN trainers: Johto (Cyn/Bay/Fer), Hoenn (Mud/Grov/Blaz), Sinnoh (Pip/Mon/Tort), Unova (Tep/Osh/Serp)

Here are my choices:

The protagonists plus Champion Blue and N Harmonia.

-I don't have the Kalos Trainer yet, but he'd have Chespin, Fennekin's first evolution, and Froakie's final evolution.

-In my wishlist roster I have the Grovyle from PMD2 as a fighter, which explains why May/Brendan has Treecko and Marshtomp instead of Mudkip and Grovyle.

If we're going for an unorthadox trainer, I would go with Cynthia (Lucario/Garchomp/Milotic), N (Zoro/Resh/Zek) or something like "Female Trainer" (Meowth/Pichu/Gardvoir)

Oh my word, I thought I was the only guy who wanted N to have Reshiram and Zekrom. Everyone else chooses random Pokemon that he used on his team in Black and White like Roggenrola or Valliluxe. =P

N is the "odd one out", since he doesn't command his Pokemon friends from the background, instead fighting alongside them on the battlefield.
To describe it the best I can: He plays like a mix of the Ice Climbers and the Pokemon Trainers.

 

[Moon Monkey]

I was initially quick to rule out Pokemon Trainer (Red), but with Red having is own TV show. I don't think they will swap out Red. The only other trainer I think might be SSB4's equivalent of Pokemon Trainer is N.

 

[Wario Bros.]

I really can't see a second Trainer set happening of any kind. Don't we have enough Pokémon characters to chose from to begin with?

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

I really can't see a second Trainer set happening of any kind. Don't we have enough Pokémon characters to chose from to begin with?

Well, yeah, it would diminish the uniqueness of Pokemon Trainer Red's playstyle, but it's still fun to think about.

 

[lobotheduck21]

Ya, The Pokemon Origins tv special in my eyes has really increased Red's chances, I'd be surprised if some other trainer gets in and Red doesn't

inb4hypermakesafussaboutuscallinghimred

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

And, personal choices for PKMN trainers: Unova (Tep/Osh/Serp)

My personal choices for Unova are: (Snivy/Dewott/Emboar)

I especially would want Snivy if there is a unova trainer. After playing Pokepark 2 for the past week, I've personally became sorta fine with having either Red, (for Ivysaur), or Unova Trainer (for snivy).

Still, I also personally don't like the ideas of cuts in general...

I was initially quick to rule out Pokemon Trainer (Red), but with Red having is own TV show. I don't think they will swap out Red. The only other trainer I think might be SSB4's equivalent of Pokemon Trainer is N.

Well, it's pointing more towards a possible couple parts special, but it still boosts his chances.

 

[Arcadenik]

I really can't see a second Trainer set happening of any kind. Don't we have enough Pokémon characters to chose from to begin with?

NO! They are not enough! I want to play as new Pokémon who were not playable in Melee/Brawl. Please Sakurai, give me a new Pokémon to play with... don't make me play with the same Pokémon for a total of 20 years (2001 - 2021) before SSB5.

 

[BaPr]

haha good one

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Inb4 Pokken Fighters

 

[Wario Bros.]

NO! They are not enough! I want to play as new Pokémon who were not playable in Melee/Brawl. Please Sakurai, give me a new Pokémon to play with... don't make me play with the same Pokémon for a total of 20 years (2001 - 2021) before SSB5.

I'm not saying we shouldn't get anymore new Pokémon characters but I think a second trainer would be too much.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm not saying we shouldn't get anymore new Pokémon characters but I think a second trainer would be too much.

Agreed. One is good enough. Regardless of which character model they use(which should be based upon what Generation the Pokemon are). On the other hand, maybe they'll just stick with more generic models like different Classes instead of what they did with Brawl. Probably a better way, since people keep confusing Generic Pokemon Trainer with Red. -_-

 

[lobotheduck21]

Probably a better way, since people keep confusing Generic Pokemon Trainer with Red. -_-

I swear man it's like you've never heard the word nickname before
edit:

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Agreed. One is good enough. Regardless of which character model they use(which should be based upon what Generation the Pokemon are). On the other hand, maybe they'll just stick with more generic models like different Classes instead of what they did with Brawl. Probably a better way, since people keep confusing Generic Pokemon Trainer with Red. -_-

So now there's "generic Pokemon trainer" who looks just like Red and is "confused" for him, and then there's Red, who is confused for Ash Ketchum. Ugh.

----

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Agreed. One is good enough. Regardless of which character model they use(which should be based upon what Generation the Pokemon are). On the other hand, maybe they'll just stick with more generic models like different Classes instead of what they did with Brawl. Probably a better way, since people keep confusing Generic Pokemon Trainer with Red. -_-

What's wrong with somebody calling a PKMN Trainer, Red, if you say it's a generic PKMN Trainer, then people are allowed to call him Red, Ash, or whatever the **** they want. It's not like it matters what you think the name of a trainer is, it's whatever you want it to be like the actual Pokemon games.

Anyways, I wouldn't mind an another PKMN trainer, it isn't needed, but I wouldn't be upset if ones in or not in.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I swear man it's like you've never heard the word nickname before

Yes, Red is quite the nickname, indeed. Which is why using Red's model was a bad idea, despite the fact it's 100% clear and intended that he wasn't Red... you know, the names, the Trophy being very specific... I hope we get a new model just to solve this. And still call him/her Pokemon Trainer. Kanto Trainer seems like the most usable nickname for Brawl's version, though. And it is at least accurate. XD

So now there's "generic Pokemon trainer" who looks just like Red and is "confused" for him, and then there's Red, who is confused for Ash Ketchum. Ugh.

----

You mean all who are different characters? Yeah. It's annoying. Thankfully, I can tell them all apart entirely. Unfortunately, quite a few people can't, despite the fact they just aren't the same person at all.(the data speaks for itself, and the trophy, and the names...) Really, it's just a model. That's more or less what the Trophies are talking about, which model they come from, not the first game they come from. If it was Red, not only would he be named Red, he's clearly be from Pokemon Red/Blue(and Red/Green in the Japanese version). Or at the very least, Sakurai would've thought to name him Red if he meant him. I do wish he meant Red too, keep in mind. But well, he didn't.

@FireEmbliemer: As long as you remember that Red is no more than an actual nickname and not who the Brawl character actually is, it's fine. But people treat him like he's Red, which is 100% wrong in every way and never can be right.(no matter how much you wish it to be) And calling him a Generic like he blatantly is according to the actual Trophy(which treats him as nothing but a Class, not a person or character) is at least accurate. Unlike all the other nicknames(save Kanto as well) instead. -_-

 

[Arcadenik]

WTF? Now HyperFalcon wants Sakurai to come up with an "original character do not steal" Pokémon Trainer?

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

I hope we get a new model just to solve this.

If he did get a new model, it would solve nothing. People would just continue to call brawl's version Red, and Smash 4's version...whatever, some other nickname probably.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Not gonna lie, but Hotfeet's drawings of all potential (whether they have a chance or not) SSB4 newcomers are pretty badass. Same thing goes for his Darkstalkers 5 designs.

IMPA YES!!!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If he did get a new model, it would solve nothing. People would just continue to call brawl's version Red, and Smash 4's version...whatever, some other nickname probably.

So people would continue to act stupid? Got it. Names speak louder than models when it always came to Smash. It's just obvious to pay attention to the name. But hey, as long as they remember that Red is a reasonable nickname, there would be no problems. It's when people go around putting false data on Wikis about this crap that an issue comes up. We know for a fact he really isn't Red. Nothing but the model actually proves he's Red, and the model is a very crappy reason when absolutely everything else shows he's a Generic Class.(not that generic classes are weird anyway to play as, you know?)

An even more interesting fact is that there never was a "Red" trophy in existence in Smash either. Also, in the Data, it just says Pokemon Trainer, even with the Japanese names. We know exactly what Sakurai intended and what he actually means at all times. There is no question whatsoever who the character is. His model is based upon Red, but all his dialogue is just what a generic Trainer would say(namely whoever you're playing as specifically). It didn't help that Trainer's voice actor sounds notoriously like Ash(which Sakurai already said he was not Ash either). The only mistake Sakurai made was not putting in completely other models(Male, probably) from the other Generations. Or just calling him Red. Not like we don't have similar named characters. Falco and Captain Falcon, anyone? Also, another interesting fact for the Polygons/Wire Frames/Alloys. In the Japanese version, they all start with the term Zako. So, for instance, it would be ZakoFalcon for Polygon Falcon, ZakoMale for Male Wireframe, and ZakoRed for Red Alloy.(all examples, no particular version was noted, just whatever I could think of right away)

 

[lobotheduck21]

, he's clearly be from Pokemon Red/Blue(and Red/Green in the Japanese version).

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Red_(game)
first pharagraph bro says he's also from leaf green/fire red, and haven't played brawl in forever, but didn't it say pokemon red/blue on the trophy

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Yes, Red is quite the nickname, indeed. Which is why using Red's model was a bad idea, despite the fact it's 100% clear and intended that he wasn't Red... you know, the names, the Trophy being very specific... I hope we get a new model just to solve this. And still call him/her Pokemon Trainer. Kanto Trainer seems like the most usable nickname for Brawl's version, though. And it is at least accurate. XD



You mean all who are different characters? Yeah. It's annoying. Thankfully, I can tell them all apart entirely. Unfortunately, quite a few people can't, despite the fact they just aren't the same person at all.(the data speaks for itself, and the trophy, and the names...) Really, it's just a model. That's more or less what the Trophies are talking about, which model they come from, not the first game they come from. If it was Red, not only would he be named Red, he's clearly be from Pokemon Red/Blue(and Red/Green in the Japanese version). Or at the very least, Sakurai would've thought to name him Red if he meant him. I do wish he meant Red too, keep in mind. But well, he didn't.

@FireEmbliemer: As long as you remember that Red is no more than an actual nickname and not who the Brawl character actually is, it's fine. But people treat him like he's Red, which is 100% wrong in every way and never can be right.(no matter how much you wish it to be) And calling him a Generic like he blatantly is according to the actual Trophy(which treats him as nothing but a Class, not a person or character) is at least accurate. Unlike all the other nicknames(save Kanto as well) instead. -_-

Ok, cool, I just mostly prefer calling him either Red or PKMN trainer since it's quicker to write, tbh. Anyways, here's a question what stage do you expect for Pokemon besides the obvious PKMN Stadium III?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Here are my choices:
View attachment 2450
The protagonists plus Champion Blue and N Harmonia.

-I don't have the Kalos Trainer yet, but he'd have Chespin, Fennekin's first evolution, and Froakie's final evolution.

-In my wishlist roster I have the Grovyle from PMD2 as a fighter, which explains why May/Brendan has Treecko and Marshtomp instead of Mudkip and Grovyle.


Oh my word, I thought I was the only guy who wanted N to have Reshiram and Zekrom. Everyone else chooses random Pokemon that he used on his team in Black and White like Roggenrola or Valliluxe. =P

N is the "odd one out", since he doesn't command his Pokemon friends from the background, instead fighting alongside them on the battlefield.
To describe it the best I can: He plays like a mix of the Ice Climbers and the Pokemon Trainers.

Wow, nice idea.

I'll do it differently though, no pics.

Pokémon Trainers:

Red, Generation 1: Squirtle, Ivyaur, Charizard.
Gold, Generation 2: Chikorita, Quilava, Feraligatr (is supposed to beat Red)
May, Generation 3: Mudkip, Grovyle, Blaziken (popularity)
???, Generation 4: Piplup, Grotle, Infernape
???, Generation 5: Tepig, Dewott, Seperiour
Blue, Generation 1: Eevee, Alakazam, Blastoise (Eevee is popular and used in Yellow, Blastoise is close to canon starter, Alakazam random)
'Female Trainer' : Jigglypuff, Meowth, Pichu (Cutesy but popular Pokémon)
'Cool Trainer' : Zoroark, Rhydon, Lucario (Rhydon for first Pokémon iconic status and heavy weight)

 

[Arcadenik]

Mario's Yoshi friend is never playable in Smash. The playable Yoshi in Smash games is just some random Yoshi. The trophies only talk about the species' abilities. They did not talk about Mario's Yoshi friend from Super Mario World and Super Mario 64. Oh, and even though this Yoshi is not Yoshi himself, you are not allowed to call him Yoshi as a nickname!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Red_(game)
first pharagraph bro says he's also from leaf green/fire red, and haven't played brawl in forever, but didn't it say pokemon red/blue on the trophy

Unfortunately, they also failed to do the research into Brawl. Again, they're very bad about actual true Smash information. Don't trust them on it, since they lack real knowledge and continue to use the Model instead of legitimate information as an excuse to say he was in Brawl.(which he wasn't) I've been on there before. They're only trustworthy on actual Pokemon games, not ones like SSB. -_-

Also, that's kind of my point. The fact it doesn't say Red/Blue is just odd, since Red originated in there, not FireRed/LeafGreen. It's pretty clear by now, and the fact the Trophy refuses to speak about Character Red, only referring to him as a Trainer Class, that he lacks the ability to be Red. If he was Red, wouldn't he at least be called it or the Trophy talk about his exploits? It's a similar case with Pikachu's first information, but he does takes notes from Ash's regardless with his moveset. Anyway, there hasn't really been any very specific versions of a single Pokemon character yet in Smash. All of them have taken notes from specific versions, but not once has Sakurai made them a specific version. Pikachu is based upon Ash's, Jigglypuff was based upon the Anime(and that where some of her popularity came from). Lucario and Mewtwo both got in due to being popular and having movies. Pichu was a clone, but also came from a movie, making him the perfect choice in that case.(the Pichu Bros.) Pokemon Trainer just happens to use Red's Model, and who's the main Trainer in the Anime? Ash, who is based upon Red. It was obvious which model would be most recognizable overall, right? Also, Ash even has two of the 3 Pokemon, and Bulbasaur failed to evolve in the Anime due to choice, but unlike Squirtle, could have as is. This only speaks of what the best choices were for Trainer, as the actual movesets really don't have any Anime influence at all for Trainer's Pokemon. I mean, yes, some of their B moves are indeed uses by Ash's, but that would make sense for just about any of them. Of course an Ivysaur would have Vine Whip, a Charizard would have Flamethrower, and a Squirtle would have Water Gun. They're practically their signature moves.(Not sure if that'd apply to Ivysaur as much, though) Also, the Final Smash for Trainer made perfect sense too, anyway.

Ok, xool, I just mostly prefer calling him either Red or PKMN trainer since it's quicker to write, tbh. Anyways, here's a question what stage do you expect for Pokemon besides the obvious PKMN Stadium III?

That makes sense. Since there's no literal Pokemon Stadium III, I want a Pokemon Coliseum Stage. Also, I hate how Coliseum is really spelled. It seems wrong for some reason... like it should have another L or S, you know?

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Wow, nice idea.


I'll do it differently though, no pics.


Pokémon Trainers:


Red, Generation 1: Squirtle, Ivyaur, Charizard.
Gold, Generation 2: Chikorita, Quilava, Feraligatr (is supposed to beat Red)
May, Generation 3: Mudkip, Grovyle, Blaziken (popularity)
???, Generation 4: Piplup, Grotle, Infernape
???, Generation 5: Tepig, Dewott, Seperiour
Blue, Generation 1: Eevee, Alakazam, Blastoise (Eevee is popular and used in Yellow, Blastoise is close to canon starter, Alakazam random)
'Female Trainer' : Jigglypuff, Meowth, Pichu (Cutesy but popular Pokémon)
'Cool Trainer' : Zoroark, Rhydon, Lucario (Rhydon for first Pokémon iconic status and heavy weight)

For Gen 4, the default names are Dawn and Lucas, not sure about Gen 5, though.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

So people would continue to act stupid?

In theory yes and no. Yes to acting the same way, no to the stupid part.

Look, I understand what you are trying to say, but you are going about this the wrong way. You are trying to prove that the Pokemon trainer isn't Red, but we all know that.

The problem is, you are dealing with nicknames. Meaning you have to prove that nicknames/or nicknames used in a certain way are bad.

However, from what I gathered, what you are basically saying is that if I had a friend named Carlos, and I gave him the nickname Mr. Rainbowpants, and even if I wasn't trying to be a jerk by giving him that nickname, I'm still an idiot.

 

[BaPr]

In Brawl, I always loved to footstool Yoshi when playing as Mario. It reminds me of those times when I dumped Yoshi in a bottomless pit just to survive.

 

[Big-Cat]

Mario's Yoshi friend is never playable in Smash. The playable Yoshi in Smash games is just some random Yoshi. The trophies only talk about the species' abilities. They did not talk about Mario's Yoshi friend from Super Mario World and Super Mario 64. Oh, and even though this Yoshi is not Yoshi himself, you are not allowed to call him Yoshi as a nickname!

While we're at it, just which R.O.B. is it in Brawl?

 

[lobotheduck21]

Unfortunately, they also failed to do the research into Brawl. Again, they're very bad about actual true Smash information. Don't trust them on it, since they lack real knowledge and continue to use the Model instead of legitimate information as an excuse to say he was in Brawl.(which he wasn't) I've been on there before. They're only trustworthy on actual Pokemon games, not ones like SSB. -_-

ya, I'm saying there saying red is the main character in leaf green/fire red,

and after rereading, the brawl trophies, there's so much misinformation

like this

On the Giga Bowser trophy, it says he cannot take any damage while in this form. In fact, he can take damage - he just gains flinch resistance from attacks.

ya, they mest up their own creative character

 

[Fire Emblemier]

ya, I'm saying there saying red is the main character in leaf green/fire red,


and after rereading, the brawl trophies, there's so much misinformation


like this


On the Giga Bowser trophy, it says he cannot take any damage while in this form. In fact, he can take damage - he just gains flinch resistance from attacks.


ya, they mest up their own creative character

Also don't forget about Blacknight's sword being called Ettard instead of Alondite.

 

[lobotheduck21]

Also don't forget about Blacknight's sword being called Ettard instead of Alondite.

or captain k. rool being king k. rools brother

 

[Arcadenik]

While we're at it, just which R.O.B. is it in Brawl?

One thing for sure, it is just a random R.O.B. and not the one that belongs to Professor Hector.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

In theory yes and no. Yes to acting the same way, no to the stupid part.

Look, I understand what you are trying to say, but you are going about this the wrong way. You are trying to prove that the Pokemon trainer isn't Red, but we all know that.

The problem is, you are dealing with nicknames. Meaning you have to prove that nicknames/or nicknames used in a certain way are bad.

However, from what I gathered, what you are basically saying is that if I had a friend named Carlos, and I gave him the nickname Mr. Rainbowpants, and even if I wasn't trying to be a jerk by giving him that nickname, I'm still an idiot.

Not what I mean exactly. It's those treating him as Red that are being stupid, not those giving him the nickname, since it's a very legit nickname. And no, not everybody knows that, unfortunately. They still think he is Red, despite all the evidence proving that wrong. -_-

ya, I'm saying there saying red is the main character in leaf green/fire red,

and after rereading, the brawl trophies, there's so much misinformation

like this

On the Giga Bowser trophy, it says he cannot take any damage while in this form. In fact, he can take damage - he just gains flinch resistance from attacks.

ya, they mest up their own creative character

Indeed they did. Although, to be fair, this isn't a small error like someone being a Brother or Cousin, this is an entire description that purposely refers to him as a generic class. I'm going to ask my Japanese friend if the original JP Trophy is any different in just a moment. Also, what I mean by other Class models is that since Brawl's is a Generic Trainer anyway, he could've just had character models from other Generic Trainers, like Picnickers, etc. Yes, Red is the most recognizable, but that means nothing unless he was actually THE Red. That's why Sakurai did this one wrong. He either named him wrong(not that the name is incorrect, but I mean that he made people confused) or didn't give him good enough costumes. Basically, I don't know why he confused people, though. Also, another interesting point; You can name your character via the Name Function in Brawl with 5 letters. Isn't all the characters you could play as at the time of Gen 4, up to 5 letters? Blue, Red, Yellow(special exception, since it was technically a Red/Ash hybrid in that game), Gold, Crystal(Kris/Krys), Ruby, Sapphire(Sapph), Emerald(Emerl?), Diamond(...Dawn), Pearl(Lucas), Platinum(Plat?). Okay, maybe not, but you can do quite a bit.

While we're at it, just which R.O.B. is it in Brawl?

The one from Mario Kart DS and the original NES games and toy. He's not R.O.B. 64, who was clearly inspired by the original Robot himself. I wonder if R.O.B. 64 is related to him?

 

[BaPr]

I know PT isn't Red, but the nickname just fits him, and it is shorter to say than Pokemon Trainer. It's even shorter to say than PT. Also, I can't believe R.O.B. destroyed a **** load of stuff in the smash world, and they just decided to forgive him.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

While we're at it, just which R.O.B. is it in Brawl?

The Ancient Minister, if the SSE is anything to go by.

 

[Arcadenik]

The one from Mario Kart DS and the original NES games and toy. He's not R.O.B. 64, who was clearly inspired by the original Robot himself. I wonder if R.O.B. 64 is related to him?

You mean to tell me that R.O.B. is not Professor Hector's robot? The R.O.B. in Smash is from the real life world?

Dr. Kawashima confirmed.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I know PT isn't Red, but the nickname just fits him, and it is shorter to say than Pokemon Trainer. It's even shorter to say than PT. Also, I can't believe R.O.B. destroyed a **** load of stuff in the smash world, and they just decided to forgive him.

Agreed. The nickname is perfect, no doubt. It makes sense to nickname him that, since he looks like him and does have the same ideal dialogue, not to mention the same possible Pokemon(...but only in Pokemon Yellow/Gold/Silver/Crystal, which is odd... since he can't get those in FR/LG naturally... without connecting or cheating, but that hardly counts.)

Also, R.O.B. just lost his entire race, and was attacked by a bad guy(Ganondorf) at the time. They also probably could tell his sadness from it. I don't think they so much as forgave him as decided to tolerate him for now and work with the guy. I forget if they had to fight Ganondorf before the Ancient Minister revealed his true form or not, though.

The Ancient Minister, if the SSE is anything to go by.

That too.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Not what I mean exactly. It's those treating him as Red that are being stupid, not those giving him the nickname, since it's a very legit nickname. And no, not everybody knows that, unfortunately. They still think he is Red, despite all the evidence proving that wrong. -_-

Hmm...Well then. Here's a tip for you. Try to make your arguments more focused on people thinking it's Red rather then calling him Red.

We get confusions like this if you don't. Sorry btw.

Other then that, except for calling them stupid, I pretty much agree with you.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Excuse me but how isn't PT not Red???

 

[lobotheduck21]

Indeed they did. Although, to be fair, this isn't a small error like someone being a Brother or Cousin, this is an entire description that purposely refers to him as a generic class.

I don't know, mixing up gameplay is a pretty big error

here's the pt trophy description

A person who raises Pokémon and trains them as partners in battle. In battle, a Trainer gives orders to the Pokémon and uses items. It's not an exaggeration to say battles can be won or lost on a Trainer's single strategic move. Trainers pour their hearts into their Pokémon and share anger, sadness, and joy as they adventure in hopes of becoming Pokémon Masters.

personally, it doesn't seem to talk about him except for the first sentence and more or less talks about all trainers and what trainers do

Actually, kind of seems like what a professor would say at the begining of the game