Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[Diddy Kong]

Habanero calls me stupid, how lovely <3

 

[Johnknight1]

I always thought speculation as whole took a toll because of Brawl feeling underwhelming, and people feeling more pessimistic this time around because of it. Which to be honest, it something understandable. After being underwhelmed by something previous, you'd play it safe too when the next thing comes around too.

Yeah, Brawl also lead to a lot of people leaving the community to never return, which was mostly stupid people, but included a few smart people (sadly).

The Melee character discussion board thread with the oldest last post: Bowser, on July the 7th (23 days ago).
The Brawl character discussion board thread with the oldest last post: Samus, on June 15th (45 days ago).

This somewhat goes back to our conversation yesterday, I don't mind characters and their playstyles, but the moves they use should root the characters moves and abilities based off of their games.

Man if Link Boomerang was as effective as it was in 64. Link would be quite the nasty zoner.

I don't really care about overlapping moves/frames that much, because nearly every character has a few of them.

Still, Toon Link, like all characters with several borrowed moves/frames, will have less borrowed moves/frames like all such characters do from one smash game to another, so I don't think think it is that big of a deal. I mean look at Luigi: he had like only 1 or 2 different moves from Mario in Smash 64. Now he is very different.

And yeah, Link's boomerang needs to do work. His Japanese Smash 64 and Melee boomerang worked pretty well.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Luigi is a good example. Yet, am a bit troubles he hasn't changed much moveset wise in between Melee and Brawl.

 

[Moon Monkey]

I don't really care about overlapping moves/frames that much, because nearly every character has a few of them.

Still, Toon Link, like all characters with several borrowed moves/frames, will have less borrowed moves/frames like all such characters do from one smash game to another, so I don't think think it is that big of a deal. I mean look at Luigi: he had like only 1 or 2 different moves from Mario in Smash 64. Now he is very different.

And yeah, Link's boomerang needs to do work. His Japanese Smash 64 and Melee boomerang worked pretty well.

Well I'm talking in terms of specials. Sure, characters may throw similar punches, kicks and knees to the face, but not everyone is gonna shoot a fireball or shoot thunderbolts. I'm sure they will gradually morph into their own character Like Luigi, Falco and Ganondorf have, I'm just pointing out that individuality should be considered from the Get-Go.

Speaking of Luigi
Luigi has new material from his Mansion games, so hopefully some of his moves will reflect some type of influence.

I heard they buffed Link's boomerang in Project M, I have yet to see footage of it in action, but I hope Sakurai and his team can work something out.

 

[Diddy Kong]

If only Sakurai would look at Project M for inspiration.

IF ONLY

 

[Johnknight1]

Luigi is a good example. Yet, am a bit troubles he hasn't changed much moveset wise in between Melee and Brawl.

Because he changed a lot more in playstyle from said game to move away from a wavedashing-heavy moveset to a... well... nothing moveset. Mario faces the same issues. If both of them had better approach, actual combos, and well... a clearly defined playstyle that more than a handful of people could play at a decently high level, Luigi's differences in Brawl would be larger and more clearly defined than they are (at least competitively).

 

[FlareHabanero]

If only Sakurai would look at Project M for inspiration.

IF ONLY

After seeing Bowser, in a sense I'm kind of glad they aren't trying to rip everything out of Project M.

 

[SoldierSunday]

After seeing Bowser, in a sense I'm kind of glad they aren't trying to rip everything out of Project M.

Whats wrong with Bowser?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Super Armor Bowser in P:M looks quite badass though. And I prefer super tank Bowser over a more agile Bowser. Especially as Bowser now looks faster than even Donkey Kong. Which is weird as ****.

 

[Johnknight1]

Well I'm talking in terms of specials. Sure, characters may throw similar punches, kicks knees to the face, but not everyone is gonna shoot a fireball or shoot thunderbolts. Luigi has new material from his Mansion games so hopefully some of his moves will reflect some type of influence.

I heard they buffed Link's boomerang in Project M, i have yet to see footage of it in action, but i hope Sakurai and his team can work something out.

Well specials in general really aren't that useful, so honestly, I look at them last. Plus, Toon Link's specials worked great in Brawl (a rare gift), although his bad matchups against all of the top tiers killed him in that regard. Now if Link were to say take most of the way said specials worked (sans the up B), and Toon Link got new specials (sans the up B; that's just too much of a signature move), that would be nice, and would make the most sense.

And yeah, Link's boomerang in Project M 2.4 did decent damage but was too good at range and had too much range IMO; in 2.5, it was underwhelming. In 2.6 they gave it a combination of Link's boomerang Smash 64/Melee range to where it is great mid-range, and at mid-short range, it serves as a combo and kill setup move.

If only Sakurai would look at Project M for inspiration.

IF ONLY

Sklyoft! But really, I think they'll look at it, and heck, maybe the smash development team will list things they like about it. That doesn't mean they will use it, however.

After seeing Bowser, in a sense I'm kind of glad they aren't trying to rip everything out of Project M.

Bowser isn't that good in Project M; if anything, he's still a low tier character.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Whats wrong with Bowser?

Nothing is wrong with Bowser, he looks so much more badass.

That's why I'm saying that him being a carbon copy of Bowser from Project M would of been lame.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Still...

Super Tank Bowser > Quick and Nimble (when she needs to be) Bowser.

 

[SoldierSunday]

Super Armor Bowser in P:M looks quite badass though. And I prefer super tank Bowser over a more agile Bowser. Especially as Bowser now looks faster than even Donkey Kong. Which is weird as ****.

Agreed. Bowser sprinting is totally weird.

 

[Johnknight1]

That's why I'm saying that him being a carbon copy of Bowser from Project M would of been lame.

No one is asking for a carbon copy; just some "inspiration" from Project M. You know, make the game exciting for everyone, patch the game (check [?]), and make every character feel like they matter (instead of have one character just wreck everyone in the meta-game at nearly all levels).

While we're at it, have tons of awesome (past) stages, and oh, freaking DLC THE (past) STAGE LIST UP!!!

 

[Baskerville]

Super Armor Bowser in P:M looks quite badass though. And I prefer super tank Bowser over a more agile Bowser. Especially as Bowser now looks faster than even Donkey Kong. Which is weird as ****.

Dat drop kick though.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I like his Headbut F Smash more than 'dat Drop Kick'. It suits him much better.

 

[SoldierSunday]

Every character should have a dropkick.

EVERY CHARACTER.

 

[Johnknight1]

^^^ The nAir sex kick and the dAir down spin kick = the original dropkick brah!

Dat drop kick though.

The drop kick fits Bowser more, too. In Melee and Brawl his moveset relied WAYYYYYY too much of his head/horns and his shell. I'm glad it looks like we will see him punch, kick, and heck, maybe even knee people more. He has all the lower and upper body strength, so it is about time to see him use it.

Oh, and the fact they made Bowser's whirling fortress worthless on the ground in Brawl was stupid. Whoever did that move should never work on, play, think about, or touch another video game again as punishment.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Brawl Bowser would've been far better with his old Up B from Melee yeah. Always hated that to. Why even nerf characters as Bowser and Link?

 

[Moon Monkey]

Well specials in general really aren't that useful, so honestly, I look at them last. Plus, Toon Link's specials worked great in Brawl (a rare gift), although his bad matchups against all of the top tiers killed him in that regard. Now if Link were to say take most of the way said specials worked (sans the up B), and Toon Link got new specials (sans the up B; that's just too much of a signature move), that would be nice, and would make the most sense.

And yeah, Link's boomerang in Project M 2.4 did decent damage but was too good at range and had too much range IMO; in 2.5, it was underwhelming. In 2.6 they gave it a combination of Link's boomerang Smash 64/Melee range to where it is great mid-range, and at mid-short range, it serves as a combo and kill setup move.

I gotta disagree especially when it comes to playing characters like Fox/Falco/Wolf, Pikcachu, ZSS or Peach. Specials are pretty useful, some even abuseable when you look at Metaknight.

Now if Link were to say take most of the way said specials worked (sans the up B), and Toon Link got new specials (sans the up B; that's just too much of a signature move), that would be nice, and would make the most sense.

Thats essentially what I'm saying, new specials that call back to the Toon LoZ games that help out his playstyle. Hell even if characters have the same arsenal and abilities, they should at least use it in different ways, like how Falco kicks his reflector.
I'm searching for some youtube vids of it in action, sounds promising!

 

[Johnknight1]

Why even nerf characters as Bowser and Link?

Because Game Arts sucks and has no idea how to make fighting games given that they are a D-grade studio with no fighting game experience beforehand, and the best fighting game since then that they have made is that D/F-grade fighting game TMNT Smash Up (or as I call it, Rabbids Fighting Party!).

I gotta disagree especially when it comes to playing characters like Fox/Falco/Wolf, Pikcachu, ZSS or Peach. Specials are pretty useful, some even abuseable when you look at Metaknight.

The spacies are an exception, as is Peach (really, only her down B is useful as an offensive move), Pikachu (super special based), ZSS (same as Pikachu), and Meta Knight (nothing of his is anything but great).

Thats essentially what I'm saying, new specials that call back to the Toon LoZ games that help out his playstyle. Hell even if characters have the same arsenal and abilities, they should at least use it in different ways, like how Falco kicks his reflector.
I'm searching for some youtube vids of it in action, sounds promising!

Well Toon Link doesn't need a new playstyle; he just could use new moves that fit his playstyle, and possibly evolve it a bit. Having those 3 projectiles was great for his moveset, but he could use a bit of variety.

The Deku Leaf, for example, could blow your opponent away, maybe kill at high percentage, and basically work as the FLUDD should have worked (a move that kills but does no damage; at least on the ground), while in the air, the Deku Leaf could give Toon Link mad DI (I assume it would be his side B btw).

 

[FlareHabanero]

Every character should have a dropkick.

EVERY CHARACTER.

R.O.B. should totally do a drop kick.

 

[Moon Monkey]

I like his Headbut F Smash more than 'dat Drop Kick'. It suits him much better.

I wouldn't mind if the drop-kick was his F + Air or N + Air, just so he can keep his horn ramming headbutt.

Between the drop-kick and the body slam, Bowser has suddenly turned into a Mucha-Lucha Koopa, All he needs now is a mask

 

[Johnknight1]

Every character should have a dropkick.

EVERY CHARACTER.

Roy h@5 t3h ph1r3 dr0pk1ck!!!

More proof that Roy > Marth.

Plus those manabs.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Every character should have a dropkick.

EVERY CHARACTER.

^^^^^ this man gets it

 

[Baskerville]

Brawl Bowser would've been far better with his old Up B from Melee yeah. Always hated that to. Why even nerf characters as Bowser and Link?

Brawl Bowser I think is actually better compared to Melee (which isn't saying a whole lot), but I do too miss his old fortress though.
Also the more I see of Melee Bowser's F-Tilt the harder I laugh. It looks like he's got ****ing bahbee arms.

 

[Johnknight1]

Every character needs a Landmaster Final Smash.

If you don't agree, then you hate this...

 

[Baskerville]

Every character needs a Landmaster Final Smash.

If you don't agree, then you hate this...

To this day that is the stupidest thing to ever have happened. TO ANYONE.

 

[Moon Monkey]

The spacies are an exception, as is Peach (really, only her down B is useful as an offensive move), Pikachu (super special based), ZSS (same as Pikachu), and Meta Knight (nothing of his is anything but great).

Mach Tornado & Shuttle Loop bruh. What about Marth? Dancing blade is heavily used for air stalling and ground pressure, I've seen plenty people throw dolphin slash out of shield and his counter is good for getting out of up close combat. What about Wario? Wario Waft, Chomp and his bikes are used heavily too. Diddy Kong? Bananas & peanuts....more so Bananas for him. R.O.B? Lasers & Gyromite are great projectiles. Ike? He would be screwed even more if he didn't have his quick draw.
The only ones i'll give to you are DK and C. Falcon.

Well Toon Link doesn't need a new playstyle; he just could use new moves that fit his playstyle, and possibly evolve it a bit. Having those 3 projectiles was great for his moveset, but he could use a bit of variety.

Thats what I've been saying, new specials to help out his existing playstyle.

The Deku Leaf, for example, could blow your opponent away, maybe kill at high percentage, and basically work as the FLUDD should have worked (a move that kills but does no damage; at least on the ground), while in the air, the Deku Leaf could give Toon Link mad DI (I assume it would be his side B btw).

I agree, there are loads of items and gadgets Toon Link can use to help out with his playstyle. I'm just suggesting that they implement them...if he is not actually cut.

 

[Frostwraith]

Around 9-10 hours till the next daily picture...

I really haven't been as active as I was a few months ago... With me playing Fire Emblem: Awakening and almost every SSB4-related subject being discussed to death already, that is hardly a surprise.

The Character Discussion boards have become unbearable since E3 2013, with the coming of new users and all that.

All this said, I'm off to sleep...

 

[Johnknight1]

Thats what I've been saying, new specials to help out his existing playstyle.

So basically try to do what Brawl did with Mario's down B, but instead of failing, succeeding in making the character more unique and well-rounded=???

I agree, there are loads of items and gadgets Toon Link can use to help out with his playstyle. I'm just suggesting that they implement them

Maybe one or two. Personally, I would keep his boomerang (if Link keeps his stupid Gale Boomerang) and/or his bombs (his bombs should 100% return if Link uses a regular boomerang). His other projectile special (bow and arrow) plus one of those two can leave, though, although hopefully that doesn't mean he isn't good at long-range attacks. Personally, if he loses two of his 3 long-range specials, I hope at least 1 of the 2 new moves he gets is a new long-range projectile if that situation occurs.

Oh, and the more I think about it, the more I don't like the Skull Hammer. Kirby and King Dedede already use hammers, whereas the only other character that uses a bow and arrow and boomerangs is Link. Toon Link would literally be dubbed more of a clone for getting a hammer, and it would probably be less original.

And while I'm at it, Toon Link certainly won't get cut. Not for Impa, not for Toad, not for any of the stupid unoriginal characters people suggest.

 

[FlareHabanero]

The Character Discussion boards have become unbearable since E3 2013, with the coming of new users and all that.

Just like pre-Brawl after E3 2006.

 

[Johnknight1]

To this day that is the stupidest thing to ever have happened. TO ANYONE.

(although to be fair, this is the greatest kind of stupid in the world, and a brand of stupid we could all use, and also a kind of stupid that makes smash bros. better!)​

 

[Diddy Kong]

It could still happen ya know.

 

[PikaJew]

Toon Link

Grab: Grappling Hook (has a grappling effect and can swing out of it)

Normal B: Deku Leaf (on the ground sends out a blast that deals no damage but sends opponent flying back, used in the air allows you to glide with a speed in between G&W parachute and Peach's umbrella)
Side B: Skull Hammer (works like DK's headbutt)
Up B: Spin
Down B: bombs (needs to keep them just because of the explosion animation)

Final Smash: Windwaker (uses the Windwaker to create a huge windstorm with Latios and Latias effects and also summon Smash 64 Hyrule Temple tornadoes)

 

[Metal Overlord]

The Character Discussion boards have become unbearable since E3 2013, with the coming of new users and all that.

I honestly don't have any interest whatsoever in visiting the other threads

I mean, this thread pretty much covers every base in a sense soooo... yeah

 

[LiteralGrill]

Yeah, I get what I need in here mostly.

 

[Johnknight1]

The Skull Hammer just sounds like Dedede's or Kirby's hammer, which is even less original than the boomerang or bow and arrows. If anything, he should get like the deku leaf, a grapple hook, or a cool sword technique.

Does anyone else want Toon Link's movements and attacking style to be more like he is in the Wind Waker=??? As cool as Toon Link's moveset was in Brawl, it would be all balls if Toon Link fought like he was straight out of the Wind Waker.

I honestly don't have any interest whatsoever in visiting the other threads

I mean, this thread pretty much covers every base in a sense soooo... yeah

Plus the character discussion is getting wrecked by Scythe and Noah. Them plus all the other little nooblets have completely destroyed that thread. The only saving grace was the page where Hab Hab, triplekoopa, and I took it over with our amazing roster (you'll know it when you see it, and we wrote some extra characters and stuff for the rest of the page and a bit of the next page after that).

Pretty much here + The first rule and second rule of Fight Club place is the only place where I can find mah joys in the Smash 4 Boards on SmashBoards!

 

[FlareHabanero]

The Roster Prediction Discussion Thread in particular is filled to the brim with cancer. If you cannot tolerate stupid, avoid that thread.

 

[TumblrFamous]

The Roster Prediction Discussion Thread in particular is filled to the brim with cancer. If you cannot tolerate stupid, avoid that thread.

Ugh. I started last month or so, and it was pretty good until Noah came back. Then it started going downhill.