Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[TheKingOfTown]

My favorite song from Brawl has to be Bramble Blast. So beautiful. <3

 

[Croph]

On the topic of songs, there's just so many I'd love to have...you peeps should check out the super long post I made in the Music Thread. But anyway, I'd love to hear this as the final boss theme. (Yeah, I know. Impossible. Not going to happen. But still, the song is amazing)

 

[Big-Cat]

This video should serve as a point of reference why the customer is not always right:

On another topic, what did you guys think of the music I posted for my custom music list? I'm definitely liking that Parasite Eve music. I wonder if it's on PSN now because I'd like to play it along with finishing up FF7. If PS4 will allow me to download the current PSN library, that'd be really good for me.

 

[Banjodorf]

Dude. Those Akuma changes. I love when developers listen to intelligent input that fans contribue with. Self-aware companies are the absolute best in my opinion, and those companies (Like Atlus or Arc Sys or Valve) are usually those that are best loved.

Nintendo really needs to do more of that, and I'm hoping Sakurai will show even more awareness of the fanbase than he did with Brawl. (Let's not make this an argument about mechanics, I'm talking about fanservice. Attention to mechanic changes would be nice.)

 

[Big-Cat]

Please tell me you're joking. That entire video was to point out the really stupid stuff that fans tend to ask for.

I'm not saying that companies shouldn't listen to fans, but most of the time, fans don't know what they're talking about.

 

[Banjodorf]

Please tell me you're joking. That entire video was to point out the really stupid stuff that fans tend to ask for.

I'm not saying that companies shouldn't listen to fans, but most of the time, fans don't know what they're talking about.

I mean, maybe. Maybe I'm just not that up on SF competitive play. I probably honed in on the "self-aware companies bit". It's that whole "sarcasm doesn't translate" bit. I did find some of it ridiculous, but hey, I'm totally ignorant of SF high-end.

tl;dr: Arc Sys is cool.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I'm not saying that companies shouldn't listen to fans, but most of the time, fans don't know what they're talking about.

Gee, that totally does not sound familiar in any shape or form to the **** people spew out around here at all.

 

[Big-Cat]

Basically, the fans that made these suggestions likely weren't thinking about the potential behind these changes. Every one of these changes proved to be downright overpowered. The 0 frame Raging Demon means you can't even jump away from it as a jump has a roughly 3-frame startup. If you thought Zangief was scary, Akuma with a full super bar is practically impenetrable. Then there was cancelling the fireball into a teleport. That shouldn't take much effort to figure out how that can possibly go wrong.

 

[---]

Nintendo really needs to do more of that, and I'm hoping Sakurai will show even more awareness of the fanbase than he did with Brawl. (Let's not make this an argument about mechanics, I'm talking about fanservice. Attention to mechanic changes would be nice.)

Actually I'm pretty sure he's been fairly aware of the various fanbases more than we give him credit for after reading all the various interviews he's done (he's unarguably the most social guy over at Nintendo when it comes to game development/privacy). Would be nice if he did more (like a Western Poll for example...) but oh well. And yes let's not turn this into a gameplay discussion.

Hopefully he doesn't prove me wrong by keeping tripping around for the next game.

 

[Banjodorf]

@Kuma

My immediate thought was pretty much "Wow, that's cool. People won't just jump over RD anymore. It seems a little OP, but whadda I know?"

 

[FlareHabanero]

This wouldn't be the first time Akuma would be broken, considering he was OP in his debut Street Fighter II Turbo to the point of being banned in USA tournaments and soft-banned in Japanese tournaments.

 

[Wario Bros.]

If Smash 4 does get patches, I'm pretty sure Sakurai (and MAYBE the help of Namco Bandai too since they're doing the balancing) will be very careful on what gets patched. Should he listen to fans on what gets patched? Yes, he should. Should he listen to EVERY SINGLE one? Hell no.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Trust me, he should only listen to the more experienced hardcore fans like the ones around here. You know, the ones that actually have extensive experience with the game and it's varies whistles and bells? I mean if he listens to everyone, there's going to make some pretty stupid mistakes like the Akuma situation shown above.

 

[Big-Cat]

@Kuma

My immediate thought was pretty much "Wow, that's cool. People won't just jump over RD anymore. It seems a little OP, but whadda I know?"

It's not like you can just toss out that move and win anyway. Akuma has plenty of tools as it is. His super and Ultras weren't the things that make him scary. It's everything else.

If Smash 4 does get patches, I'm pretty sure Sakurai (and MAYBE the help of Namco Bandai too since they're doing the balancing) will be very careful on what gets patched. Should he listen to fans on what gets patched? Yes, he should. Should he listen to EVERY SINGLE one? Hell no.

With Namco on board, things should be fine. Though I don't see the need to buff the Mishimas in every game.

@Habanero
Not sure if you've caught on or not, but that video is just a mod with those changes. There was also one video a while back why Guile's Sonic Boom needed to be a charge input.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Now this is a convo i like and could get into!
Yh man Smash aint corrupt..yet..just hope these forums down turn into CoD and Gears forums with all peepz ******** about **** they cant handle..instead of actually playing the game to find counters...i have enough experience imo of gaming to know if something is OP or not...

Worse thing is if somethings OP 9/10 it ends up getting abused..thats what gets it all worked up...sometimes patches destroy games cause more imbalance expecially when devs slip in **** no one asked for... I only think something should be patched if it is clearly OP and abused like hell...

But its hard to see the real problems when

#1 peepz ***** about everything

#2 what the community interprits as OP the devs may not...

#3 proberly the biggest one of all..peepz are Bias they dont look at the big picture...just there benefits...

Dunno...man...ok heres a good idea a example you lot here i bet no doubt have been playint brawl competetivly wayyy longer than me so are more knowledgable of the metagame.

What in your opnion do you think needs to be patched in brawl if it could happen?

Whats trully wrong/un-balanced dont just say chars name you gotta truly think about it to be considered seriously to other peepz and most of all the devs...

 

[Deleted member]

This video should serve as a point of reference why the customer is not always right:

On another topic, what did you guys think of the music I posted for my custom music list? I'm definitely liking that Parasite Eve music. I wonder if it's on PSN now because I'd like to play it along with finishing up FF7. If PS4 will allow me to download the current PSN library, that'd be really good for me.

WTF??

How to make Akuma broken as **** in SSF4AE...

I actually had to double check to see if this was legit, seriously what the HELL!

If Smash 4 does get patches, I'm pretty sure Sakurai (and MAYBE the help of Namco Bandai too since they're doing the balancing) will be very careful on what gets patched. Should he listen to fans on what gets patched? Yes, he should. Should he listen to EVERY SINGLE one? Hell no.

No, he just needs to listen to me.


LEL

 

[Deleted member]

What in your opnion do you think needs to be patched in brawl if it could happen?

Whats trully wrong/un-balanced dont just say chars name you gotta truly think about it to be considered seriously to other peepz and most of all the devs...

Alright, lets get to it:

1. Well for one, we shouldn't look to Brawl as a basis. We should look at Melee, and stem from there to create something new. Compared to Brawl, the engine needs to be sped up, and random tripping needs to go.

2. The Air Dodges need work, they're OP in Brawl. You can literally phase through everything with no punishment. Likewise, the recovery needs to be made less easy, more like in Melee. I like how you can grab a ledge regardless of which way you face, however, everyone in Brawl has magnetic hands.

3. Gatlin/Magic Combos are a must. What is this? This is a transition from Weak to Strong attacks found in ALL fighting games (at least all the ones I've played) where you can move from a Weak Jab, into a Medium attack to a Strong attack with few lag frames in between attacks. In Blazblue it's A>B>C, ing Guilty Gear it's Punch>Kick>Slash>Heavy Slash, in Street Fighter it goes Weak>Medium>Heavy in either punches or kicks. Why is this necessary? Because it's insticntive, and essentially a staple of the genre. Nearly every character in Smash would benefit from it, especially considering Smash has what I call "locked inputs" in combos. THERE IS 0 FLOW. If you try to D-Tilt just after doing an F-Titl for example, you'll continue to F-Tilt. This is frustrating, and it makes you not only miss opportunities, but also leaves you wide open for a counter attack. Having a little flow is not game breaking in the least.

4. More aerial options. I've already said why I support High Jumps and Air Dashes before, no need to repeat myself on that one.

5. Strings would be nice and add new flavor to the game, but aren't necessary. Strings would be essentially "hidden moves" that can only be done after certain moves. Just situational Tilts and the like that could add a little more flow.


On characters:

Zelda needs to be completely redone. I'm in for getting Impa if it means Zelda is worked from scratch once more. P:M Zelda shows what she's capable of.

Link needs to be taken back to Melee, and worked on from there. Nerfing him in Brawl was a stupid ****ing move.

Ike needs defence and range buffs, as well as a better Side B. P:M once again gives a good example.

Meta Knight... ****, theres so much wrong here. His UpB needs to be balanced out. As his Spam Tornado. Also, his Aerial attacks could be dropped in range a bit to make him less broken.

Ice Climbers, the problem here isn't with them. Chain Grabbing isn't bad, the problem is that Chain Grabs can be endless. This is something to do more with the mechanics of the game, and less with characters themselves. Just make it so that each consecuitive grab double in difficulty to use, and in ease to break from, thus making it so that 3 chain grabs are possible consequitively if you're very good at them.

Snake, don't think he's coming back, but he should be obvious.

Sanic, poor little guy, made so sucky... P:M Sonic, nuff said.

Samus, it is really jarring just how bad she's been considering how GODLY she is canonically. She needs defence buffs, and better aerial momentum. She'd be one of the FIRST characters to make insane use of the Air Dash if implemented.

 

[Frostwraith]

Oh my... WHAT. THE. HELL!!! What has Capcom done to Akuma?! Transformed my favorite character in SF4 into a cluster**** of cheapassery...

As if Wrath of the Raging Demon wasn't broken enough, they make it into an instant screen filler grab.

Seriously, the only thing good from that video was the command change for Demon Armaggedon.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh my... WHAT. THE. HELL!!! What has Capcom done to Akuma?! Transformed my favorite character in SF4 into a cluster**** of cheapassery...

As if Wrath of the Raging Demon wasn't broken enough, they make it into an instant screen filler grab.

Seriously, the only thing good from that video was the command change for Demon Armaggedon.

It's a mod dude. Don't worry though, I thought the same exact thing you did for a minute after watching it.

 

[Frostwraith]

It's a mod dude. Don't worry though, I thought the same exact thing you did for a minute after watching it.

Is that so? Well then, not so bad news then.

Anyway, regarding Smash's gameplay, I think the speed should be something between Melee and Brawl. I had lots of difficulties in using Fox in Melee, because he was just too fast. However, Brawl sometimes feels kind of too slow.

While I enjoy both games, I think Smash 4 should aim in taking the positive aspects of both Melee and Brawl into its own gameplay.

Some changes I'd think as good:
1. Limit the number of air dodges to one or two, without rendering the character helpless.
2. No random tripping. It is a stupid mechanic, even though it has granted me victories before.
3. Better character balancing. Sakurai has admitted that the balancing in the previous games wasn't good and is leaving it to an entire team instead of just himself, so I have higher hopes on this aspect.

I think the devs should look at all previous Smash games and note each game's attributes, including positive and negative points. No game is perfect, but you ought to learn from your own mistakes.

 

[Moon Monkey]

This video should serve as a point of reference why the customer is not always right:

There are two sides to the spectrum bro. On one side we have THAT, on on the other side we have THIS:
[collapse= I'm sure we have all seen this.]

[/collapse]
I'm not sure this individual only buffed Akuma and Akuma, I'm not sure that is the best way to go about balancing the game. Characters need to be put through the paces amongst the other roster members to see how they stack up with buffs. These are things that I'm sure that the guys working on PM are considering on every buff and nerf they make. Consumers may have ideas, but i think it's up to the devs to at least consider the tweaks to see how feasible they are to the game on a whole. If consumers don't know what we want, then why even try on suggesting characters for SSB4?

Many fighting based dev's need to look at company/consumer relationships like Blizzard and their Starcraft community. Love them or hate them, Blizz makes buffs and nerfs here and there for certain races, and decide on whether or not it is broken or not. Community gives feed back after playing and exploiting these buffs and nerfs as best as possible and give their feed back. If these buff and changes don't work than they are done away with if, if they do-- you get the point.

EDIT: I guess in short what I'm trying to say is: Fans of a franchise, deserve at least to have hear their ideas heard and considered. Ideally, there needs to be a good company to consumer ecosystem for both sides to be happy. or at least an illusion of said ecosystem to make both sides happy.

 

[Metal Overlord]

I think the whole "customer is always right" thing doesn't really apply if the customer doesn't really know much about the game in the first place

 

[Moon Monkey]

I think for the whole "customer is always right" thing doesn't really apply if the customer doesn't really know much about the game in the first place

I agree for a new game, people must wait and see what direction the devs are heading, but for a game that consumers have become acquainted with over the years and know the direction the game is heading; I'm sure some fans may have some suggestions.

 

[Diddy Kong]

No not all game developers should listen to their fans. But as long as Sakurai wants to make Smash as casual as possible, he SHOULD listen to us.

 

[FlareHabanero]

But as long as Sakurai wants to make Smash as casual as possible, he SHOULD listen to us.

Contrary to what you're saying, in order to make the game more casual he has to ignore us. I mean we are the same people that complain about how dumb down Brawl is with the unbalanced problems and the unnecessary mechanics.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Should Smash have to fall in the same territory as NSMB, as in the devs pretty much doing all kinds of things that is beyond mixed at best to longtime fans and casuals who eat up the games, though?

 

[Moon Monkey]

It's all about balance. The great thing about Smash is that it has broad appeal. As long as the game is simple to jump into with mostly familiar controls, but at the same time is deep enough for people who want to delve in deeper I'm sure casual crowd and a good handful of the competitive crowd will love it.

We are (give or take) a month and a half away from E3, so we'll find out eventually!

 

[Diddy Kong]

Funky's Armory - Donkey Kong 64

 

[volbound1700]

With regard to patches, it seems like Sakurai always states that he has more he wished he could have added to each game (characters, ideas, etc.). I am thinking patches would try to address what he left out due to time constraints.

Also patches with levels, characters (if not in this game), items, etc. from past games would be nice.

 

[Dark Phazon]

http://wiiudaily.com/2013/04/nintendo-announces-a-3ds-nintendo-direct-this-wednesday/

Dunno were else to post this also dunno if you lot already know but there has been a Nintendo Direct annouced for Europe this wednesday about the 3DS proof is in the link above.

Also yh...brawl has like little to none...its barely a fighting game seriously...not exciting/frantic at all...something defenetly needs to be done about that like more melee like gravity and melee like air dodges etc:....

 

[Diddy Kong]

Brawl's slower style was bad yeah. N64 had the ideal speed for me.

 

[Wario Bros.]

There's a 3DS Nintendo Direct for North America too this Wednesday.

http://www.nintendo.com/nintendo-direct/archive/04-17-2013/

 

[bobadz]

That's a day I have off, so that's good.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

That's a day I have off, so that's good.

Lucky b*st*rd.....

9 AM central. Practically right when my first class of the day starts.

 

[Diddy Kong]

You won't miss out the moment you log into here though

I believe the Mewtwo event was the only time I've ever watched a live Nintendo announcement

 

[Frostwraith]

I have a test on that day from 2:30 pm to 3:30 pm, so... since EU Nintendo Direct starts at 4pm, that's not too bad.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I haven't been to school in 4 years now. And I'm just 22.

Then again, I'm also 'biologically' becoming a father so...

 

[~automatic]

Oh dear. This thread moved a ton of miles (lolwut? distance weight) while I was out.

 

[Metal Overlord]

It's funny how people always say Brawl's gameplay catered to casuals, but I'm a casual and I actually find Melee more fun lol

I think if Brawl had better stages, then I would've enjoyed it a bit more

 

[Baskerville]

People think they're hardcore apparently.