2000dog
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2018
- Messages
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Blog theory?Blog theory lives!
I would hate to die by a busToday's update features the Kappn Assist Trophy.
"When Kapp'n takes the stage he hops on a bus and drives around the stage. Careful! When he hits a fighter, he'll carry them off of the stage in his bus!!"
The AT was hilarious when we first saw it, but I don't blame Mario for that expression; I'd hate to be put in a bus (especially a school bus) against my will too.
I know that, but Nintendo has also straight up said she's Zelda.The memory speaks of Sheik's exploits in OOT. So if it isn't a typo, it's being consistent with the character's specific base appearance. Keep in mind Sheik's design was meant to be disguised to come off as a male.
That... doesn't matter? Sheik is Zelda. Sheik can still be a literal transformation into a male physically but would always be Zelda too.I know that, but Nintendo has also straight up said she's Zelda.
Okay, let me specify, they also said it's a costume. Their is no body morphing going on.That... doesn't matter? Sheik is Zelda. Sheik can still be a literal transformation into a male physically but would always be Zelda too.
They're the same person. It's not odd if her magic would allow her to physically change her full body. The problem is more with how back then things like physical transitioning from a male to female or female to male was less accepted in society(thus, it was very hard to deal with this situation for them, as they couldn't literally translate it that way without major issues due to society not becoming better as people). The Japanese text isn't clear enough to tell if they were posing as a male or were actually a male form as Sheik.
Not that it matters, since in OOT, they're intentionally posing as male to hide who they are. That's why the characters and game refer to Sheik as male. The memory is from OOT, so it's solely consistent with the memory, but it doesn't mean Sheik is a male body in any Smash game either. It's a confusing subject anyway.
That's a very different thing, then.Okay, let me specify, they also said it's a costume. Their is no body morphing going on.
You are reading way too much into this.That's a very different thing, then.
That said, Smash is strange and I'd wait to see how it's handling the situation. Sheik and Zelda are different people this time around, so who knows. I'm guessing Sheik is still female in this particular Smash game, but it isn't confirmed till the trophies come out. It made perfect sense solely to say it due to the memories(as Sheik was intended to be identified as male in OOT for the purpose of the story). When Sheik and Zelda were separated entirely, you cannot apply the transformation factor.
So it's a matter of what Smash officially goes with. Could go either way.
Again, what is in Smash and what is in the Zelda series are entirely different things. They're their own canons.You are reading way too much into this.
Anyways, the tweet goes: “The definitive answer is that Sheik is a woman — simply Zelda in a different outfit.”
Edit: Even the Hyrule Hystoria seems to indicate disguise, and there is other evidence. Really, the idea that Zelda actually turned into a man has no real evidence it seems.
HW? If you mean warriors, then sure, but bear in mind that the tweet never mentioned warriors and was in response to people online arguing about it.Again, what is in Smash and what is in the Zelda series are entirely different things. They're their own canons.
HW isn't canon, so I don't know what the point was to actual mention that. Sheik was a transformation in Smash. She isn't anymore. The blog is weird about this and we got no clue on what's actually going on. It's probably a straight reference or typo. Also, you really shouldn't accuse people of reading too much into it.
Smash has always been its own thing, and sometimes it actually makes errors too, though that can often be the US version. Maybe that's all it is. Maybe Sakurai is changing Sheik a bit for Smash Ultimate. Who knows. It's not clear in any way what's going on, so all we can do is wait for the Trophy(which again, I think it's just a straight OOT reference and the people who did the blog translations screwed up. No more, no less). I'm just openminded enough to consider other options. That isn't "looking too much into things", it's actually realizing that Sakurai's own interpretations of characters aren't always going to be the same as canon. We know for a fact he does his own thing, and usually adheres to canon, but not always. Sheik doesn't exist in BOTW or TP, so she's clearly not a canon version and thus, we'll just have to wait and see what the BOTW version is meant to be(and I still think it was some kind of error).
I misread that as Hyrule Warriors, actually. Easy mistake.HW? If you mean warriors, then sure, but bear in mind that the tweet never mentioned warriors and was in response to people online arguing about it.
She has been consistently referred to as female except when trying to maintain the "mystery" which is likely what is going on. And, when you produce whole paragraphs in response to one sentence, then, yes, you may be reading into something too much.
Why, you continue to produce large paragraphs?I misread that as Hyrule Warriors, actually. Easy mistake.
Regardless, your accusations is profusely unfounded.
Sheik in Ultimate is literally unrelated to Zelda in Ultimate. They're not even remotely the same person(which is barely possible in 4, due to the TP designs, but at least it makes sense to assume they are). Sheik is a BOTW character and probably Zelda in disguise. And I doubt it's anything but that. However, BOTW also literally has Sheikah as a full race split up, with new members shown heavily. For all we know it's a person who is just a descendant of Zelda. Or it's just Zelda. And hell, I'm assuming it's just Zelda in disguise like everybody else. I doubt it's anything else but that. But until the trophies come out, that blog post may not be inaccurate/a typo/a mistranslation. It could be the actual proper thing. And I actually think it's referring to the specific case that Sheik in OOT is identifying as male to simply keep up the disguise, as all characters referred to him as male(for that reason alone). I just don't presume that's 100% the case. I'm just 99% sure of it.
Just like I'm 99% sure the Box Theory is legit.
Zelda isn't why Sheik was kept in at all. It's because she was a highly popular veteran. Sakurai had the team behind the Zelda series draft up a TP Sheik design to keep the transformation tradition. Sheik was also the first character introduced in Smash. Besides, Sheik only got in because Zelda did, but Zelda also only got in because Sheik did. It was all or nothing.Why, you continue to produce large paragraphs?
Also, during OoT falls under keeping the mystery (as does the player guide). It's essentially a 20+ year old spoiler that sometimes they keep, sometimes they don't. There has never been a substantiated case that Sheik is male.
As for Sheik being a new Sheikah, I doubt they'd add essentially an OC. Zelda is probably the main reason she was never cut in the first place.
No, fairly confident they used unused designs for TP as Sheik was intended for that game as well. She was not the first character introduced in Smash. Don't know where you got that idea.Zelda isn't why Sheik was kept in at all. It's because she was a highly popular veteran. Sakurai had the team behind the Zelda series draft up a TP Sheik design to keep the transformation tradition. Sheik was also the first character introduced in Smash. Besides, Sheik only got in because Zelda did, but Zelda also only got in because Sheik did. It was all or nothing.
There has never been a substantial case Sheik was female either. It was a statement by Nintendo to clarify their final position on it. There was actually nothing provable of whether it was a transformation or not, or how it worked. The Japanese text actually does specify it was a transformation that affect the body in some way. I don't believe it made Sheik male(just a somewhat more masculine body to keep up the face, but bodies come in all shapes and sizes, so that makes sense).
They have added OC's in Giga Bowser, Mr. Game & Watch, and R.O.B. having a personality to begin with. But more specifically the first two. Giga Bowser is Smash-specific. Mr. Game & Watch never existed outside of Smash I doubt it too, though, that said. I'm just wondering what they will go with in the end. I'm still in the "yeah, just some version of Zelda from the past wearing the BOTW Sheikah armor" myself.
Nobody is making large paragraphs. They're tiny paragraphs with a few simplistic but to the point sentences. I'd appreciate it if you stop talking about how I post and just reply to my points only. It's getting tiring having to defend my debating skills when they're not on-topic in any way and I've been most reasonable about everything I said. :/
Nope. From Hyrule Historia itself. The TP Design was created specifically for Brawl. Took a while to find it, as Source Gaming didn't have it either. https://www.ssbwiki.com/Sheik It seems like Smash Wiki has a different interpretation of the statement, but that could be an error as the wiki isn't perfect like any fanwiki. But considering Source Gaming can't seem to decide whether Wolf took 70% of the work done to make a new character or had already 70% done thanks to retooling from Fox, these things happen.No, fairly confident they used unused designs for TP as Sheik was intended for that game as well. She was not the first character introduced in Smash. Don't know where you got that idea.
The Japanese text implied a physical transformation, however. It's really only the English text and localization that tried to go with "disguise". That wasn't the purpose in the original. But regardless, I'm pretty sure the final word is "disguise".Actually, someone did some looking into it, and it definitely leans that way. Besides, when most people hear disguise, they usually don't instantly jump to sex change. And the magic made her tan and gave her red eyes. Mystery solved.
Mr. Game & Watch was created as an homage to the generic characters in the series. He's an OC based upon the concept of combining them all into one. He did not exist outside of Smash itself. The Game & Watch characters aren't anything more than generic sprites that can't even be called a "him". For some reason, despite the Smash character existing, they never actually did anything to make them more of a character. Mr. Game & Watch couldn't even make emotional faces or have eyes/etc. till a later game. Which is strange, but hey, OC's aren't meant to be like that. Sheik in Ultimate could potentially become an OC to separate him/herself from Zelda entirely. Though overall, I believe it's just BOTW Zelda in disguise and nothing more. It's just not confirmed, so I don't pretend it is. The blog itself saying something that strange means I can't really say this for sure anymore. Not with the fact the Sheikah tribe exists outside of Impa. It could even be a generic female Sheikah for all we know. The fact Sakurai is willing to take full characters like Red and turn them into entirely generic "avatars" means until we get more information, we can't really confirm if Sheik is still Zelda this time(at least in 4, she still used the TP design besides TP Zelda, so there was no point in assuming otherwise. Besides that, the trophy at least stated she... in the US text, anyway. UK text didn't mention that for some reason. Weird).Giga Bowser is the only real one here. GW was an amalgamation, and ROB is a very real object.
Which is an accusation instead of going after the points I made. Did you honestly think people wouldn't take offense to that kind of statement? I'd appreciate it if you just drop the personal stuff with me entirely and stuck only to the actual points I made regarding Smash itself. Last time I'm going to ask.Why are you being so defensive? I just said I think you're reading into it too much.
"Sheik's updated design was initially created for Twilight Princess,[2] but plans to implement her into Twilight Princess fell through. As a result, her updated design was effectively discarded until finding new life via Brawl." Sounds to me like it was a design that simply went unused.Nope. From Hyrule Historia itself. The TP Design was created specifically for Brawl. Took a while to find it, as Source Gaming didn't have it either. https://www.ssbwiki.com/Sheik It seems like Smash Wiki has a different interpretation of the statement, but that could be an error as the wiki isn't perfect like any fanwiki. But considering Source Gaming can't seem to decide whether Wolf took 70% of the work done to make a new character or had already 70% done thanks to retooling from Fox, these things happen.
The Japanese text implied a physical transformation, however. It's really only the English text and localization that tried to go with "disguise". That wasn't the purpose in the original. But regardless, I'm pretty sure the final word is "disguise".
Mr. Game & Watch was created as an homage to the generic characters in the series. He's an OC based upon the concept of combining them all into one. He did not exist outside of Smash itself. The Game & Watch characters aren't anything more than generic sprites that can't even be called a "him". For some reason, despite the Smash character existing, they never actually did anything to make them more of a character. Mr. Game & Watch couldn't even make emotional faces or have eyes/etc. till a later game. Which is strange, but hey, OC's aren't meant to be like that. Sheik in Ultimate could potentially become an OC to separate him/herself from Zelda entirely. Though overall, I believe it's just BOTW Zelda in disguise and nothing more. It's just not confirmed, so I don't pretend it is. The blog itself saying something that strange means I can't really say this for sure anymore. Not with the fact the Sheikah tribe exists outside of Impa. It could even be a generic female Sheikah for all we know. The fact Sakurai is willing to take full characters like Red and turn them into entirely generic "avatars" means until we get more information, we can't really confirm if Sheik is still Zelda this time(at least in 4, she still used the TP design besides TP Zelda, so there was no point in assuming otherwise. Besides that, the trophy at least stated she... in the US text, anyway. UK text didn't mention that for some reason. Weird).
Which is an accusation instead of going after the points I made. Did you honestly think people wouldn't take offense to that kind of statement? I'd appreciate it if you just drop the personal stuff with me entirely and stuck only to the actual points I made regarding Smash itself. Last time I'm going to ask.
Don't cite a source without vetting it.Knock it off with the personal snipes at a user. Enough is enough. You were told and asked constantly to drop the personal stuff. It has nothing to do with the topic and it has gone on long enough.
You also aren't quoting Hyrule Historia itself, which actually says; "The pictures at the bottom right represent what Zelda from Twilight Princess would look like if she transformed into Sheik. They were drawn for Super Smash Bros. Brawl." (Hyrule Historia, page 174)" Which is what I'm referring to specifically. Of course, I do own HH myself, so maybe it's just SmashWiki making an error. I'll have to recheck it once I find my copy. But the HH itself is far more clear than a Wiki that clearly worded it poorly. It's going under the other data found of where Aonuma gave the TP designs to Sakurai, but clearly missed the context that one was not made for TP itself, but created for Brawl only. https://www.darkhorse.com/Books/20-921/The-Legend-of-Zelda-Hyrule-Historia-HC And a specific picture shows that HH exactly says that. There is no actual legitimate information that suggests the TP design was created for TP itself, but for Brawl only. Which changes a lot about TP's development.
Actually, the source from the SmashWiki statement is the official Brawl Dojo.Eh, I quoted HH's exact words. SmashWiki was clearly a bad source. Won't deny that.
The question is why HH contradicts it. I'm not sure if that's just a US typo, though(for the Brawl Dojo I mean).Actually, the source from the SmashWiki statement is the official Brawl Dojo.
They called Dark Samus an "it" whereas she is referred to using female pronouns in Prime. Smash seems to get pronouns wrong for whatever reason.So Nintendo has officially recognized Sheik as male. And in Smash.
Thoughts?
it's because the original japanese text for the post doesn't have pronouns at all so it's up to the english translator to have decidedThey're actually still inconsistent about this. On their post for Sheik on the official Nintendo tumblr blog, they use female pronouns for Sheik.
Top 10 Questions Science Still Can't AnswerWHY is Sheik referenced as a male on the site???