Super Smash Blog Updates | NEWEST: Ditto

[2000dog]

Today's Fighter - Lucario

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Blog theory lives!

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Lucario should keep his Smash 4 voice clips

 

[Arthur97]

Blog theory lives!

Blog theory?

 

[Admiral Pit]

Today's update features the Kappn Assist Trophy.

"When Kapp'n takes the stage he hops on a bus and drives around the stage. Careful! When he hits a fighter, he'll carry them off of the stage in his bus!!"

The AT was hilarious when we first saw it, but I don't blame Mario for that expression; I'd hate to be put in a bus (especially a school bus) against my will too.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Today's update features the Kappn Assist Trophy.

"When Kapp'n takes the stage he hops on a bus and drives around the stage. Careful! When he hits a fighter, he'll carry them off of the stage in his bus!!"

The AT was hilarious when we first saw it, but I don't blame Mario for that expression; I'd hate to be put in a bus (especially a school bus) against my will too.

I would hate to die by a bus

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I hope Lucario is more fluid like his Brawl self, I felt his 4 self was a bit too stiff in comparison.

 

[Arthur97]

We got Sheik today...and it says "his." Is this a typo or Nintendo just playing along?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

We got Sheik today...and it says "his." Is this a typo or Nintendo just playing along?

Probably just Sakurai messing around

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The memory speaks of Sheik's exploits in OOT. So if it isn't a typo, it's being consistent with the character's specific base appearance. Keep in mind Sheik's design was meant to be disguised to come off as a male.

 

[Arthur97]

The memory speaks of Sheik's exploits in OOT. So if it isn't a typo, it's being consistent with the character's specific base appearance. Keep in mind Sheik's design was meant to be disguised to come off as a male.

I know that, but Nintendo has also straight up said she's Zelda.

 

[Fell God]

>his

What is this timeline

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I know that, but Nintendo has also straight up said she's Zelda.

That... doesn't matter? Sheik is Zelda. Sheik can still be a literal transformation into a male physically but would always be Zelda too.

They're the same person. It's not odd if her magic would allow her to physically change her full body. The problem is more with how back then things like physical transitioning from a male to female or female to male was less accepted in society(thus, it was very hard to deal with this situation for them, as they couldn't literally translate it that way without major issues due to society not becoming better as people). The Japanese text isn't clear enough to tell if they were posing as a male or were actually a male form as Sheik.

Not that it matters, since in OOT, they're intentionally posing as male to hide who they are. That's why the characters and game refer to Sheik as male. The memory is from OOT, so it's solely consistent with the memory, but it doesn't mean Sheik is a male body in any Smash game either. It's a confusing subject anyway.

 

[Arthur97]

That... doesn't matter? Sheik is Zelda. Sheik can still be a literal transformation into a male physically but would always be Zelda too.

They're the same person. It's not odd if her magic would allow her to physically change her full body. The problem is more with how back then things like physical transitioning from a male to female or female to male was less accepted in society(thus, it was very hard to deal with this situation for them, as they couldn't literally translate it that way without major issues due to society not becoming better as people). The Japanese text isn't clear enough to tell if they were posing as a male or were actually a male form as Sheik.

Not that it matters, since in OOT, they're intentionally posing as male to hide who they are. That's why the characters and game refer to Sheik as male. The memory is from OOT, so it's solely consistent with the memory, but it doesn't mean Sheik is a male body in any Smash game either. It's a confusing subject anyway.

Okay, let me specify, they also said it's a costume. Their is no body morphing going on.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Okay, let me specify, they also said it's a costume. Their is no body morphing going on.

That's a very different thing, then.

That said, Smash is strange and I'd wait to see how it's handling the situation. Sheik and Zelda are different people this time around, so who knows. I'm guessing Sheik is still female in this particular Smash game, but it isn't confirmed till the trophies come out. It made perfect sense solely to say it due to the memories(as Sheik was intended to be identified as male in OOT for the purpose of the story). When Sheik and Zelda were separated entirely, you cannot apply the transformation factor.

So it's a matter of what Smash officially goes with. Could go either way.

 

[Arthur97]

That's a very different thing, then.

That said, Smash is strange and I'd wait to see how it's handling the situation. Sheik and Zelda are different people this time around, so who knows. I'm guessing Sheik is still female in this particular Smash game, but it isn't confirmed till the trophies come out. It made perfect sense solely to say it due to the memories(as Sheik was intended to be identified as male in OOT for the purpose of the story). When Sheik and Zelda were separated entirely, you cannot apply the transformation factor.

So it's a matter of what Smash officially goes with. Could go either way.

You are reading way too much into this.

Anyways, the tweet goes: “The definitive answer is that Sheik is a woman — simply Zelda in a different outfit.”

Edit: Even the Hyrule Hystoria seems to indicate disguise, and there is other evidence. Really, the idea that Zelda actually turned into a man has no real evidence it seems.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You are reading way too much into this.

Anyways, the tweet goes: “The definitive answer is that Sheik is a woman — simply Zelda in a different outfit.”

Edit: Even the Hyrule Hystoria seems to indicate disguise, and there is other evidence. Really, the idea that Zelda actually turned into a man has no real evidence it seems.

Again, what is in Smash and what is in the Zelda series are entirely different things. They're their own canons.

HW isn't canon, so I don't know what the point was to actual mention that. Sheik was a transformation in Smash. She isn't anymore. The blog is weird about this and we got no clue on what's actually going on. It's probably a straight reference or typo. Also, you really shouldn't accuse people of reading too much into it.

Smash has always been its own thing, and sometimes it actually makes errors too, though that can often be the US version. Maybe that's all it is. Maybe Sakurai is changing Sheik a bit for Smash Ultimate. Who knows. It's not clear in any way what's going on, so all we can do is wait for the Trophy(which again, I think it's just a straight OOT reference and the people who did the blog translations screwed up. No more, no less). I'm just openminded enough to consider other options. That isn't "looking too much into things", it's actually realizing that Sakurai's own interpretations of characters aren't always going to be the same as canon. We know for a fact he does his own thing, and usually adheres to canon, but not always. Sheik doesn't exist in BOTW or TP, so she's clearly not a canon version and thus, we'll just have to wait and see what the BOTW version is meant to be(and I still think it was some kind of error).

 

[Arthur97]

Again, what is in Smash and what is in the Zelda series are entirely different things. They're their own canons.

HW isn't canon, so I don't know what the point was to actual mention that. Sheik was a transformation in Smash. She isn't anymore. The blog is weird about this and we got no clue on what's actually going on. It's probably a straight reference or typo. Also, you really shouldn't accuse people of reading too much into it.

Smash has always been its own thing, and sometimes it actually makes errors too, though that can often be the US version. Maybe that's all it is. Maybe Sakurai is changing Sheik a bit for Smash Ultimate. Who knows. It's not clear in any way what's going on, so all we can do is wait for the Trophy(which again, I think it's just a straight OOT reference and the people who did the blog translations screwed up. No more, no less). I'm just openminded enough to consider other options. That isn't "looking too much into things", it's actually realizing that Sakurai's own interpretations of characters aren't always going to be the same as canon. We know for a fact he does his own thing, and usually adheres to canon, but not always. Sheik doesn't exist in BOTW or TP, so she's clearly not a canon version and thus, we'll just have to wait and see what the BOTW version is meant to be(and I still think it was some kind of error).

HW? If you mean warriors, then sure, but bear in mind that the tweet never mentioned warriors and was in response to people online arguing about it.

She has been consistently referred to as female except when trying to maintain the "mystery" which is likely what is going on. And, when you produce whole paragraphs in response to one sentence, then, yes, you may be reading into something too much.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

HW? If you mean warriors, then sure, but bear in mind that the tweet never mentioned warriors and was in response to people online arguing about it.

She has been consistently referred to as female except when trying to maintain the "mystery" which is likely what is going on. And, when you produce whole paragraphs in response to one sentence, then, yes, you may be reading into something too much.

I misread that as Hyrule Warriors, actually. Easy mistake.

Regardless, your accusations is profusely unfounded.

Sheik in Ultimate is literally unrelated to Zelda in Ultimate. They're not even remotely the same person(which is barely possible in 4, due to the TP designs, but at least it makes sense to assume they are). Sheik is a BOTW character and probably Zelda in disguise. And I doubt it's anything but that. However, BOTW also literally has Sheikah as a full race split up, with new members shown heavily. For all we know it's a person who is just a descendant of Zelda. Or it's just Zelda. And hell, I'm assuming it's just Zelda in disguise like everybody else. I doubt it's anything else but that. But until the trophies come out, that blog post may not be inaccurate/a typo/a mistranslation. It could be the actual proper thing. And I actually think it's referring to the specific case that Sheik in OOT is identifying as male to simply keep up the disguise, as all characters referred to him as male(for that reason alone). I just don't presume that's 100% the case. I'm just 99% sure of it.

Just like I'm 99% sure the Box Theory is legit.

 

[Arthur97]

I misread that as Hyrule Warriors, actually. Easy mistake.

Regardless, your accusations is profusely unfounded.

Sheik in Ultimate is literally unrelated to Zelda in Ultimate. They're not even remotely the same person(which is barely possible in 4, due to the TP designs, but at least it makes sense to assume they are). Sheik is a BOTW character and probably Zelda in disguise. And I doubt it's anything but that. However, BOTW also literally has Sheikah as a full race split up, with new members shown heavily. For all we know it's a person who is just a descendant of Zelda. Or it's just Zelda. And hell, I'm assuming it's just Zelda in disguise like everybody else. I doubt it's anything else but that. But until the trophies come out, that blog post may not be inaccurate/a typo/a mistranslation. It could be the actual proper thing. And I actually think it's referring to the specific case that Sheik in OOT is identifying as male to simply keep up the disguise, as all characters referred to him as male(for that reason alone). I just don't presume that's 100% the case. I'm just 99% sure of it.

Just like I'm 99% sure the Box Theory is legit.

Why, you continue to produce large paragraphs?

Also, during OoT falls under keeping the mystery (as does the player guide). It's essentially a 20+ year old spoiler that sometimes they keep, sometimes they don't. There has never been a substantiated case that Sheik is male.

As for Sheik being a new Sheikah, I doubt they'd add essentially an OC. Zelda is probably the main reason she was never cut in the first place.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Why, you continue to produce large paragraphs?

Also, during OoT falls under keeping the mystery (as does the player guide). It's essentially a 20+ year old spoiler that sometimes they keep, sometimes they don't. There has never been a substantiated case that Sheik is male.

As for Sheik being a new Sheikah, I doubt they'd add essentially an OC. Zelda is probably the main reason she was never cut in the first place.

Zelda isn't why Sheik was kept in at all. It's because she was a highly popular veteran. Sakurai had the team behind the Zelda series draft up a TP Sheik design to keep the transformation tradition. Sheik was also the first character introduced in Smash. Besides, Sheik only got in because Zelda did, but Zelda also only got in because Sheik did. It was all or nothing.

There has never been a substantial case Sheik was female either. It was a statement by Nintendo to clarify their final position on it. There was actually nothing provable of whether it was a transformation or not, or how it worked. The Japanese text actually does specify it was a transformation that affect the body in some way. I don't believe it made Sheik male(just a somewhat more masculine body to keep up the face, but bodies come in all shapes and sizes, so that makes sense).

They have added OC's in Giga Bowser, Mr. Game & Watch, and R.O.B. having a personality to begin with. But more specifically the first two. Giga Bowser is Smash-specific. Mr. Game & Watch never existed outside of Smash I doubt it too, though, that said. I'm just wondering what they will go with in the end. I'm still in the "yeah, just some version of Zelda from the past wearing the BOTW Sheikah armor" myself.

Nobody is making large paragraphs. They're tiny paragraphs with a few simplistic but to the point sentences(okay, one post had a lot of sentences in a paragraph. That was it. Fair enough). I'd appreciate it if you stop talking about how I post and just reply to my points only. It's getting tiring having to defend my debating skills when they're not on-topic in any way and I've been most reasonable about everything I said. :/

 

[Arthur97]

Zelda isn't why Sheik was kept in at all. It's because she was a highly popular veteran. Sakurai had the team behind the Zelda series draft up a TP Sheik design to keep the transformation tradition. Sheik was also the first character introduced in Smash. Besides, Sheik only got in because Zelda did, but Zelda also only got in because Sheik did. It was all or nothing.

There has never been a substantial case Sheik was female either. It was a statement by Nintendo to clarify their final position on it. There was actually nothing provable of whether it was a transformation or not, or how it worked. The Japanese text actually does specify it was a transformation that affect the body in some way. I don't believe it made Sheik male(just a somewhat more masculine body to keep up the face, but bodies come in all shapes and sizes, so that makes sense).

They have added OC's in Giga Bowser, Mr. Game & Watch, and R.O.B. having a personality to begin with. But more specifically the first two. Giga Bowser is Smash-specific. Mr. Game & Watch never existed outside of Smash I doubt it too, though, that said. I'm just wondering what they will go with in the end. I'm still in the "yeah, just some version of Zelda from the past wearing the BOTW Sheikah armor" myself.

Nobody is making large paragraphs. They're tiny paragraphs with a few simplistic but to the point sentences. I'd appreciate it if you stop talking about how I post and just reply to my points only. It's getting tiring having to defend my debating skills when they're not on-topic in any way and I've been most reasonable about everything I said. :/

No, fairly confident they used unused designs for TP as Sheik was intended for that game as well. She was not the first character introduced in Smash. Don't know where you got that idea.

Actually, someone did some looking into it, and it definitely leans that way. Besides, when most people hear disguise, they usually don't instantly jump to sex change. And the magic made her tan and gave her red eyes. Mystery solved.

Giga Bowser is the only real one here. GW was an amalgamation, and ROB is a very real object.

Why are you being so defensive? I just said I think you're reading into it too much.

This whole thing is moot anyways, as she has officially been declared female (even Sakurai did in the Brawl dojo) despite being occasionally referred to as male either to keep up the illusion and/or by characters who didn't know any better (people seriously expected Ruto to know?).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

No, fairly confident they used unused designs for TP as Sheik was intended for that game as well. She was not the first character introduced in Smash. Don't know where you got that idea.

Nope. From Hyrule Historia itself. The TP Design was created specifically for Brawl. Took a while to find it, as Source Gaming didn't have it either. https://www.ssbwiki.com/Sheik It seems like Smash Wiki has a different interpretation of the statement, but that could be an error as the wiki isn't perfect like any fanwiki. But considering Source Gaming can't seem to decide whether Wolf took 70% of the work done to make a new character or had already 70% done thanks to retooling from Fox, these things happen.

Actually, someone did some looking into it, and it definitely leans that way. Besides, when most people hear disguise, they usually don't instantly jump to sex change. And the magic made her tan and gave her red eyes. Mystery solved.

The Japanese text implied a physical transformation, however. It's really only the English text and localization that tried to go with "disguise". That wasn't the purpose in the original. But regardless, I'm pretty sure the final word is "disguise".

Giga Bowser is the only real one here. GW was an amalgamation, and ROB is a very real object.

Mr. Game & Watch was created as an homage to the generic characters in the series. He's an OC based upon the concept of combining them all into one. He did not exist outside of Smash itself. The Game & Watch characters aren't anything more than generic sprites that can't even be called a "him". For some reason, despite the Smash character existing, they never actually did anything to make them more of a character. Mr. Game & Watch couldn't even make emotional faces or have eyes/etc. till a later game. Which is strange, but hey, OC's aren't meant to be like that. Sheik in Ultimate could potentially become an OC to separate him/herself from Zelda entirely. Though overall, I believe it's just BOTW Zelda in disguise and nothing more. It's just not confirmed, so I don't pretend it is. The blog itself saying something that strange means I can't really say this for sure anymore. Not with the fact the Sheikah tribe exists outside of Impa. It could even be a generic female Sheikah for all we know. The fact Sakurai is willing to take full characters like Red and turn them into entirely generic "avatars" means until we get more information, we can't really confirm if Sheik is still Zelda this time(at least in 4, she still used the TP design besides TP Zelda, so there was no point in assuming otherwise. Besides that, the trophy at least stated she... in the US text, anyway. UK text didn't mention that for some reason. Weird).

Why are you being so defensive? I just said I think you're reading into it too much.

Which is an accusation instead of going after the points I made. Did you honestly think people wouldn't take offense to that kind of statement? I'd appreciate it if you just drop the personal stuff with me entirely and stuck only to the actual points I made regarding Smash itself. Last time I'm going to ask.

 

[Arthur97]

Nope. From Hyrule Historia itself. The TP Design was created specifically for Brawl. Took a while to find it, as Source Gaming didn't have it either. https://www.ssbwiki.com/Sheik It seems like Smash Wiki has a different interpretation of the statement, but that could be an error as the wiki isn't perfect like any fanwiki. But considering Source Gaming can't seem to decide whether Wolf took 70% of the work done to make a new character or had already 70% done thanks to retooling from Fox, these things happen.


The Japanese text implied a physical transformation, however. It's really only the English text and localization that tried to go with "disguise". That wasn't the purpose in the original. But regardless, I'm pretty sure the final word is "disguise".


Mr. Game & Watch was created as an homage to the generic characters in the series. He's an OC based upon the concept of combining them all into one. He did not exist outside of Smash itself. The Game & Watch characters aren't anything more than generic sprites that can't even be called a "him". For some reason, despite the Smash character existing, they never actually did anything to make them more of a character. Mr. Game & Watch couldn't even make emotional faces or have eyes/etc. till a later game. Which is strange, but hey, OC's aren't meant to be like that. Sheik in Ultimate could potentially become an OC to separate him/herself from Zelda entirely. Though overall, I believe it's just BOTW Zelda in disguise and nothing more. It's just not confirmed, so I don't pretend it is. The blog itself saying something that strange means I can't really say this for sure anymore. Not with the fact the Sheikah tribe exists outside of Impa. It could even be a generic female Sheikah for all we know. The fact Sakurai is willing to take full characters like Red and turn them into entirely generic "avatars" means until we get more information, we can't really confirm if Sheik is still Zelda this time(at least in 4, she still used the TP design besides TP Zelda, so there was no point in assuming otherwise. Besides that, the trophy at least stated she... in the US text, anyway. UK text didn't mention that for some reason. Weird).


Which is an accusation instead of going after the points I made. Did you honestly think people wouldn't take offense to that kind of statement? I'd appreciate it if you just drop the personal stuff with me entirely and stuck only to the actual points I made regarding Smash itself. Last time I'm going to ask.

"Sheik's updated design was initially created for Twilight Princess,[2] but plans to implement her into Twilight Princess fell through. As a result, her updated design was effectively discarded until finding new life via Brawl." Sounds to me like it was a design that simply went unused.

There was a bit of transformation. Skin color, eyes, and even length of hair. Nothing overly drastic.

Like I said though, this is moot and you're just drawing this out with unlikely scenarios.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You aren't quoting Hyrule Historia itself, which actually says; "The pictures at the bottom right represent what Zelda from Twilight Princess would look like if she transformed into Sheik. They were drawn for Super Smash Bros. Brawl." (Hyrule Historia, page 174)" Which is what I'm referring to specifically. Of course, I do own HH myself, so maybe it's just SmashWiki making an error. I'll have to recheck it once I find my copy. But the HH itself is far more clear than a Wiki that clearly worded it poorly. It's going under the other data found of where Aonuma gave the TP designs to Sakurai, but clearly missed the context that one was not made for TP itself, but created for Brawl only. https://www.darkhorse.com/Books/20-921/The-Legend-of-Zelda-Hyrule-Historia-HC And a specific picture shows that HH exactly says that. There is no actual legitimate information that suggests the TP design was created for TP itself, but for Brawl only. Which changes a lot about TP's development.

 

[Arthur97]

Knock it off with the personal snipes at a user. Enough is enough. You were told and asked constantly to drop the personal stuff. It has nothing to do with the topic and it has gone on long enough.

You also aren't quoting Hyrule Historia itself, which actually says; "The pictures at the bottom right represent what Zelda from Twilight Princess would look like if she transformed into Sheik. They were drawn for Super Smash Bros. Brawl." (Hyrule Historia, page 174)" Which is what I'm referring to specifically. Of course, I do own HH myself, so maybe it's just SmashWiki making an error. I'll have to recheck it once I find my copy. But the HH itself is far more clear than a Wiki that clearly worded it poorly. It's going under the other data found of where Aonuma gave the TP designs to Sakurai, but clearly missed the context that one was not made for TP itself, but created for Brawl only. https://www.darkhorse.com/Books/20-921/The-Legend-of-Zelda-Hyrule-Historia-HC And a specific picture shows that HH exactly says that. There is no actual legitimate information that suggests the TP design was created for TP itself, but for Brawl only. Which changes a lot about TP's development.

Don't cite a source without vetting it.

In any case, I won't continue this with a mod who abuses their power over my stating what they are doing (cause I kinda want to stop). I would ignore you, but that's not really an option.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Eh, I quoted HH's exact words. SmashWiki was clearly a bad source. Won't deny that.

Look, I screwed up. I'm sorry about that and after being bullied all my life being constantly sniped at gets at me way harsher than simply "because it's uncivil". I reverted the previous post as is. I shouldn't have edited that. I was trying to get it rerailed to solely be about the debate and not talking about a user personally(for good reasons, I only asked you to solely stop making it personal about me and nothing more), and I failed spectacularly at that in every possible way.

So again, apologies.

 

[AEMehr]

Eh, I quoted HH's exact words. SmashWiki was clearly a bad source. Won't deny that.

Actually, the source from the SmashWiki statement is the official Brawl Dojo.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Actually, the source from the SmashWiki statement is the official Brawl Dojo.

The question is why HH contradicts it. I'm not sure if that's just a US typo, though(for the Brawl Dojo I mean).

Checked the Japanese Dojo. Same thing. So I don't know what's going on with this. I guess the only way to know is checking the Japanese Hyrule Historia. I'm betting it was made during TP, but it was touched up for Brawl a bit(or simply used for Brawl and the US version misinterpreted it). Instead of "being made for Brawl" it was probably meant to say "being first used for Brawl". That would match up well with it.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

So Nintendo has officially recognized Sheik as male. And in Smash.

Thoughts?

 

[Calamitas]

They're actually still inconsistent about this. On their post for Sheik on the official Nintendo tumblr blog, they use female pronouns for Sheik.

 

[Fell God]

So Nintendo has officially recognized Sheik as male. And in Smash.

Thoughts?

They called Dark Samus an "it" whereas she is referred to using female pronouns in Prime. Smash seems to get pronouns wrong for whatever reason.

 

[RileyXY1]

The next music update is from Tomodachi Life!

 

[Fell God]

Well, it's Tomodachi Life music. Fun game, but the music is nothing too exciting. Maybe Gangplank Galleon spoiled me...

 

[Durnt]

I hope they will use some tracks from Miitopia hearing this in smash would be nice https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8QiEgSXTYM

 

[bbybae]

They're actually still inconsistent about this. On their post for Sheik on the official Nintendo tumblr blog, they use female pronouns for Sheik.

it's because the original japanese text for the post doesn't have pronouns at all so it's up to the english translator to have decided

 

[Zinith]

Today's stage is Saffron City

 

[Iko MattOrr]

About the Zelda debate:

I know that the manga may not be canon, but according to the manga of Ocarina of Time, when Zelda transforms into Sheik it's mentioned that she also becomes a male (or at least, disguises as a male), so I think she's still female, but disguised as a male. Male pronouns make sense even if she's still Zelda in a different outfit, because that's part of the disguise.

There may be a bit of physical transformation to hide her feminine traits a bit (along with red eyes and all), but I doubt she becomes a male completely, at least it doesn't seem so from the Smash models of the character (but it's still a bit ambiguous on purpose anyway).

in short, I think she's still female, but male pronouns make sense because as Sheik she also fakes herself as a male.

 

[Diddy Kong]

WHY is Sheik referenced as a male on the site???

 

[Fell God]

WHY is Sheik referenced as a male on the site???

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