Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Guynamednelson]

They easily get angry whenever you point to them how their logic makes the speculation boring too.

The worst part is when people assume that if you want to discuss characters that aren't the usual predictions, you want to discuss Piranha Plant-tier stuff. It's not that black and white, considering the characters in the FPs that weren't common predictions are nowhere near Piranha Plant.

 

[Xenigma]

Exactly. I totally understand if people want to argue that Isaac is unlikely, because in all honesty he is. AT's may not hard de-confirm, but having both a current AT and a Mii Costume are certainly two strikes against him. That said, there is still evidence to show that Isaac still has both fan demand and possible modern relevance, in addition to the fact that Sakurai has constantly shown that fan rules are meant to be broken. And what if we get a Min Min vs Springman situation where we end up getting Matthew or Felix instead of Isaac but they still basically play the same? You can argue that Isaac's chances are 50%, 40%, 20%, 1%, even 0.00001%, but to say with all confidence that the chance is absolute zero is just a pathetic example of straight-up gatekeeping. I find it hard to take people seriously when they throw around such careless assumptions. It's like my boy Obi-wan says: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes."

As someone who was very active in RTC pre-SSB4 and rated Duck Hunt as a 0%, yeah, that's not an absolute you can throw around lightly. You want to say the Camelot Bros are unlikely? Yeah, you can make a pretty strong argument for both, and you don't even need to reference their ATs to do it. You want to say they have no chance at all? Sorry, but you should know better by now.

 

[SharkLord]

For clarity's sake, where can we check that new trademark? Want to brush up on the details.

 

[Nawgust]

It sounds like- and please correct me if I'm wrong here, I've rarely viewed the RTC thread- that the chance and want scores aren't really being separated. It seems like you're rating a character by both their objective and subjective chances by assigning them an arbitrary number based on your confidence (for the former) or bias (for the latter).

To be fair (to be faaaiiiaaahhh... Letterkenny anyone?), the chance score seems like it should be decided by an informed community while anyone can provide a want score. Everyone has a right to an opinion. The problem is that the people who are most informed about certain characters (see the last 1126 pages) and the people who are interested in said character are bound to have a significant amount of overlap. It's difficult to separate fact from opinion when your investment influences both.

 

[Kalaam]

For clarity's sake, where can we check that new trademark? Want to brush up on the details.

Go on any trademark website (like WIPO) and look up "GOLDEN SUN" or "GOLDENSUN" (nomenclature can vary between website) in category 9.

 

[SonicLink125]

Isaac sending Ridley to another dimension. This is how he captures his enemies. lol
#SmashBros #GoldenSun #AssistAlliance pic.twitter.com/GifdcJdcR5

— SonicLink125 ☀️ (@SonicLink125) January 25, 2021

I wonder what this "dimension" that Isaac is sending Ridley to? lol

Hope everyone is doing ok!

 

[Sentinel07]

All this copyright stuff kind of goes over my head, so I'll just leave it to those who know what they're talking about and hope they're right. :D

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Hoping they’ll announce something Golden Sun by April.

 

[Kalaam]

The latest I'd expect if it's this year would be E3 period for announcement because that'd coincide with the anniversary, if they can't release it in the first quarter. Past august I see it less likely for 2021.

 

[Xenigma]

Honestly, if we don't hear something by E3/Summer, I have to wonder if the project is in trouble or if we've somehow gravely misread what Camelot's been working on. I'm not exactly worried yet given it's still January, but the idea of passing the mid-year announcement blitz and not hearing a peep about Camelot's upcoming project(s) would be awfully concerning.

 

[ArkSPiTFirE]

I mean, the later it is, the less likely its going to be a Mario Sports game, unless it's in some next level development hell. They've already missed the sweet spot to release a new one.

Besides if it's as ambitious as I feel it's going to be in my head, then I can see them taking up to 4 years to make it. It would be nice to get some kind of announcement half way through the year though.

 

[MeatOfJustice]

Hoping they’ll announce something Golden Sun by April.

As long as it's not in April 1st.

 

[Guynamednelson]

As long as it's not in April 1st.

April 1 Directs ain't no joke.

 

[Sentinel07]

April 1 Directs ain't no joke.

That's kind of the funny thing about April 1st.

In the west, it's April Fools Day, but in Japan, the beginning of April is associated with new starts (one example being that it starts the new Japanese fiscal year).

 

[TempestSurge]

Honestly, if we don't hear something by E3/Summer, I have to wonder if the project is in trouble or if we've somehow gravely misread what Camelot's been working on. I'm not exactly worried yet given it's still January, but the idea of passing the mid-year announcement blitz and not hearing a peep about Camelot's upcoming project(s) would be awfully concerning.

I think it's right not to worry about it yet. At the end of the day it's just an unnanounced game, we're only hyper focused on it cause of having the info from the trademark and the anticipation as GS fans finally seeing the series return.

We have something like Metroid Prime 4 that was announced back in 2017 as just a title and was told a year later that everything was going well, only to see development restart in 2019 and since still no word. If something along the lines of that happened to GS after it's announcement it would indeed be worrying but all we can do is wait for that announcement. And I have a feeling Nintendo is likely to not announce it too far from it's release so if it's set for the holidays it'll be a long while.

 

[Bassoonist]

Honestly, if we don't hear something by E3/Summer, I have to wonder if the project is in trouble or if we've somehow gravely misread what Camelot's been working on. I'm not exactly worried yet given it's still January, but the idea of passing the mid-year announcement blitz and not hearing a peep about Camelot's upcoming project(s) would be awfully concerning.

Is the "mid-year announcement" blitz even a thing anymore? It just feels like we're really left in the dark about when things will be announced nowadays. Sure, I still expect Pokemon announcements at the beginning of the year, and a Super Smash Bros character reveal every once in a while, but non-Pokemon game announcements come out of the blue nowadays.

 

[SonicLink125]

#Doom x #GoldenSun crossover?!? Interesting. lol
Got my Golden Sun Psynergy shirt from @theyetee. Looks good! Never worn a yellow shirt before, but wanted to show support to my favorite RPG anyway I can! Thank you @GamesDoneQuick for having GS there!
The sun will rise again! ☀️ pic.twitter.com/9NPibT9SnG

— SonicLink125 ☀️ (@SonicLink125) January 28, 2021

Got the shirt early! So awesome for AGDQ and TheYeTee to do this. We really need more Golden Sun merch!

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Quassy who you might’ve seen before making Smash Ultimate art recently did our boy

Venus Adept; Isaac pic.twitter.com/t64xdBGXZN

— Quassy @ Playing Valkyria Chronicles (@quassihollic) January 31, 2021

 

[ArkSPiTFirE]

Love his style in that one.

 

[SonicLink125]

POV you're Ridley right before Isaac captures you & sends you to another dimension. lol
#SmashBros #GoldenSun #AssistAlliance pic.twitter.com/QTvkhxFjP7

— SonicLink125 ☀️ (@SonicLink125) February 1, 2021

I couldn't decide on which angle/view was better. Haha.

Hope everyone is doing alright over here!

 

[Schonberg]

They easily get angry whenever you point to them how their logic makes the speculation boring too.

Speculation will always be less interesting than just talking about characters you like or can make up a cool moveset for. Speculation historically goes off of “leaks”, sales figures, and release dates or anniversaries and says they are the only ways to determine who is coming to smash.

That makes discussion so clinical and boring, and thankfully Smash has shown time and time again that being popular, having an interesting potential moveset, being successful, being important to the history of video games, or just any reason whatsoever is a totally valid reason to put them in Smash. It’s why I stick to the support threads instead of RTC.

I miss the Smash Ballot days when people would just rally for a character they liked and came up with how they’d play instead of just hopping on the bandwagon of who’s the most ‘likely’ from some arbitrary list.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

Speculation will always be less interesting than just talking about characters you like or can make up a cool moveset for. Speculation historically goes off of “leaks”, sales figures, and release dates or anniversaries and says they are the only ways to determine who is coming to smash.

That makes discussion so clinical and boring, and thankfully Smash has shown time and time again that being popular, having an interesting potential moveset, being successful, being important to the history of video games, or just any reason whatsoever is a totally valid reason to put them in Smash. It’s why I stick to the support threads instead of RTC.

I miss the Smash Ballot days when people would just rally for a character they liked and came up with how they’d play instead of just hopping on the bandwagon of who’s the most ‘likely’ from some arbitrary list.

Honestly, i really miss the ballot days. Even if most of the characters i wanted weren't likely, to have that hope meant it was possible to talk about them. It also helps 1st and 3rd party character discussions were both on equal ground, you saw discussions from Veterans, Newcomers like K.Rool and Bandanna Dee or Guests like Rayman and Banjo. It wasn't the lopsided "1st parties are unlikely and boring" shtick we have now.

I remember playing Golden Sun 1 and 2 back to back just to get onto Isaac. I remember posting all those Golden Sun Comics to keep discussion and a bit of optimism.

I didn't knew i was just making memories, i just was having fun....................

 

[Nazyrus]

I miss the Smash Ballot days when people would just rally for a character they liked and came up with how they’d play instead of just hopping on the bandwagon of who’s the most ‘likely’ from some arbitrary list.

Damn that really does bring me back. Back in 2015 I voted for a character from an NDS title that literally nobody knows about, lol. Even made my own Smashified of the character and a other silly stuff of him. It definitely were less edgy times in the fandom, lol.

 

[ZelDan]

Speculation will always be less interesting than just talking about characters you like or can make up a cool moveset for. Speculation historically goes off of “leaks”, sales figures, and release dates or anniversaries and says they are the only ways to determine who is coming to smash.

That makes discussion so clinical and boring, and thankfully Smash has shown time and time again that being popular, having an interesting potential moveset, being successful, being important to the history of video games, or just any reason whatsoever is a totally valid reason to put them in Smash. It’s why I stick to the support threads instead of RTC.

I miss the Smash Ballot days when people would just rally for a character they liked and came up with how they’d play instead of just hopping on the bandwagon of who’s the most ‘likely’ from some arbitrary list.

Speculation doesn't have to necessarily be just about sales and leaks and whatnot. you can speculate over why a character would be a worthy, valuable addition to Smash without breaking out graphs and sales figures. you can speculate over what a character could bring to Smash through their moveset or what kind of content they could bring (music, stage, spirits, etc.).

And eh, there's still plenty of people rallying behind characters they want nowadays, and even some of the most commonly talked about characters like Crash or Doom guy or Chun Li do have their genuine fans or people who want them for "fun" reasons and not "bandwagony" ones.

 

[Golden Icarus]

Speculation doesn't have to necessarily be just about sales and leaks and whatnot. you can speculate over why a character would be a worthy, valuable addition to Smash without breaking out graphs and sales figures.

That’s how I view a lot of the “bandwagon characters.” Sometimes a character being a worthy addition is enough reason for me to support them. I’m not really a huge fan of Crash. In fact, I don’t enjoy his games whatsoever. I also don’t really care for his design and the movesets that I see people propose don’t seem all that interesting to me. That said, I’m still a strong supporter of Crash. Seeing a console mascot that many people grew up with finally fight Mario and Sonic is enough reason for me to want Crash in Smash.

 

[Guynamednelson]

That’s how I view a lot of the “bandwagon characters.” Sometimes a character being a worthy addition is enough reason for me to support them. I’m not really a huge fan of Crash. In fact, I don’t enjoy his games whatsoever. I also don’t really care for his design and the movesets that I see people propose don’t seem all that interesting to me. That said, I’m still a strong supporter of Crash. Seeing a console mascot that many people grew up with finally fight Mario and Sonic is enough reason for me to want Crash in Smash.

I get that many people would be happy with Crash, but considering Minecraft and FFVII are Minecraft and FFVII, I feel like Nintendo's going to think they're already happy. Steve's going to appeal to everyone under 20 and Sephiroth everyone over 20, while each character in FP1 had multiple obstacles preventing them from appealing to everyone. Except Hero, who still had an obstacle in that DQ is only massive in Japan.

 

[N3ON]

I get that many people would be happy with Crash, but considering Minecraft and FFVII are Minecraft and FFVII, I feel like Nintendo's going to think they're already happy. Steve's going to appeal to everyone under 20 and Sephiroth everyone over 20, while each character in FP1 had multiple obstacles preventing them from appealing to everyone. Except Hero, who still had an obstacle in that DQ is only massive in Japan.

Well by that logic they could just stop now, with everyone already catered to. But there are three characters left. If there's already been catering across the board, there's nothing left to do but overlap.

That isn't really true though. Even with its scope and success, FF7 content doesn't appeal to everyone over 20. I know a number of people who play Smash who haven't played any game in the FF series.

 

[Guynamednelson]

That isn't really true though. Even with its scope and success, FF7 content doesn't appeal to everyone over 20. I know a number of people who play Smash who haven't played any game in the FF series

It's an exaggeration. Sephiroth can appeal to a good, good chunk of boomers, but obviously not all of them due to FFVII being mostly considered a PS1 game.

 

[N3ON]

It's an exaggeration. Sephiroth can appeal to a good, good chunk of boomers, but obviously not all of them due to FFVII being mostly considered a PS1 game.

But the point stands that overlap doesn't seem to be a large deterrent to Nintendo. FP1 had three RPG characters that released within three years of each other. In FP2, even if one character shares traits with another, there are still four other characters. So far all three have been pretty different.

 

[Guynamednelson]

But the point stands that overlap doesn't seem to be a large deterrent to Nintendo. FP1 had three RPG characters that released within three years of each other. In FP2, even if one character shares traits with another, there are still four other characters. So far all three have been pretty different.

Still, with 90% of everyone who would've bought the pass having already bought it thanks to S&S, they might as well appeal to the remaining 10%. Just like how were for a more casual audience than the ballot picks.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Regardless of what happens, I still think at least one more first-party character is likely for this Fighter Pass.

 

[DrakeHavok]

Regardless of what happens, I still think at least one more first-party character is likely for this Fighter Pass.

I hope so at least. I've always held the notion that first party characters should hold precedent over third party, but Ultimate has been very liberal with its third party invites. That's not to say any of the present 3rd parties have no reason to be here, I just wish Nintendo would focus on their own properties more, especially ones that have been neglected for too long.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Regardless of what happens, I still think at least one more first-party character is likely for this Fighter Pass.

I'm actually betting on three since Steve and Sephiroth would be more expensive than the guests in FP1 and are enough for 90% of everyone who was going to buy the pass to do so.

That and it would match how much Smash fans tend to be wrong.

 

[Nazyrus]

Regardless of what happens, I still think at least one more first-party character is likely for this Fighter Pass.

More than likely, yes. Who tho?… that's always the dilemma lol

 

[ZelDan]

I'm actually betting on three since Steve and Sephiroth would be more expensive than the guests in FP1 and are enough for 90% of everyone who was going to buy the pass to do so.

That and it would match how much Smash fans tend to be wrong.

3 first party picks is...incredibly optimistic...

While Sakurai's budget for Ultimate likely isn't limitless, considering how much he has been able to pull off and how stupidly successful Smash and its DLC has been I really wouldn't be surprised if Sakurai's still looking nice on the budget front. besides, not every third party characters is some super huge or expensive Steve or Sephiroth level character; there are smaller third party characters that could always happen that likely wouldn't strain a SSBU level budget.

At most I could maybe see 2 more first party picks, and even THAT I'm really not confident in and wouldn't exactly bet on.

I do agree however that I think we atleast have one more first party character in store somewhere between these 3 remaining slots.

 

[Pwnapplez]

Hell yeah.

https://twitter.com/evboogie/status/1358039325175386113?s=21

Can’t wait to celebrate GS anniversary too.

 

[DanganZilla5]

While I'm stopping by here I'll lend my support. I haven't gotten too far into the first Golden Sun but man you guys deserve this so much. You are probably the most passionate fanbase that I've seen in the Smash community. Isaac would be a great choice and he is my number one choice for the next first party character as he would round out the first party lineup really well. Not to mention he has sick moveset potential and songs. I'm predicting one more first party character and while I think it's going to be Rex personally, if that new Golden Sun game gets announced this year then Isaac will definitely jump up in chances as he already has the long-term fan support and I don't think assist trophies matter anymore. Some people have their arguments, but the reality is that there is no strong argument for why assist trophies deconfirm in this pass. Not to mention I get the vibe that the Smash team is aware of Isaac's demand with his assist trophy and costume, two songs, and a fairly impressive lineup of spirits for a series with no playable reps.

I'm praying for you Isaac fans. After K. Rool, Ridley, and Banjo, this game has been the stuff of dreams and it feels like Isaac is more likely than ever. Hopefully a golden sun will rise and shine above Ultimate sometime this year.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I’ve added you.

Spoiler: Adepts

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413. psb123
414. PSIguy89
415. PSYNergy
416. PrinceGal3n
417. PurpleStuff5
418. PWN3
419. Pwnapplez
420. Pyzlnar
421. QcSlayer
422. Q-Long
423. Quetzal77
424. R.O.B.
425. Radical Beam
426. Radori
427. Raetah
428. Rafuki21
429. RandomAce
430. Raykz
431. Raziek
432. Red Dasher
433. Red Ryu
434. ReeseBalaski
435. RegiGygas117
436. RenH
437. Replica
438. Rethuic
439. Retroen
440. RetrogamerMax
441. RetroMetalSonic
442. RhymeswithEmpty
443. RobinotX
444. Roger Smith
445. RosaPeach
446. Royaru
447. roydgriffin
448. Royvolution Ream
449. RumpletrellskiN
450. Ryan
451. Ryuji
452. Ryuutakeshi
453. Sabrewulf238
454. Saer2k
455. Sagittarius
456. Salocin
457. sandfall
458. SanicJan
459. Sari
460. Scatmansworld25
461. Scoliosis Jones
462. scoobymcsnack
463. Seb9k+
464. SebasSancy
465. Secret Sexytime
466. Seleir
467. Seoxys
468. Sephazon
469. ShadowGuy1
470. Sharklord
471. Shawnullah
472. sheik93
473. shellshocker18
474. Shin F.
475. Shinhed-echi
476. Shiny Porygon
477. shocktarts17
478. Shog
479. Sidboylol
480. Silo777
481. SirBillyBob
482. SirCamp
483. Skeleton o' Fun
484. SkullKidKing
485. Skyblade12
486. Skyfox2000
487. sman3975
488. Smash_Handle69
489. SmashBro99
490. smashingDoug
491. smashkirby
492. Smashmar2
493. smash puffle
494. SmashShadow
495. smashtriforce77
496. smileMasky
497. SmilingMad
498. SMX
499. SNEKeater
500. Solbliminal
501. Solfiner
502. someonetookjacob
503. SonicLink125
504. SonicSmasher
505. SoraSaturn
506. Sordim522
507. SorMago
508. SorrowOfAcheron
509. SoulofKhaos
510. Soulsaint
511. SoupCanMafia
512. Sparkus
513. Spatman
514. Spazzy_D
515. Speedwagon
516. Speed Weed
517. SPEN18
518. SpiritOfRuin
519. spoilerowl
520. Spootondorf
521. Sqid
522. Squirtle/Mario guy
523. SSBFan
524. Staarih
525. StaffofSmashing
526. Strider_Bond00J
527. StrikeBlade
528. SundaeS
529. SuperBrawler
530. Superfiremario
531. SuperNintendoKid
532. Supersmash77
533. Superyoshiom
534. Swampasaur
535. Sykin
536. Takasmash
537. tamagone
538. TappyBat
539. TBone06
540. tbuster766
541. TCT~Phantom
542. TeamFlareZakk
543. Techno1000
544. Tecnoid
545. Teeb147
546. TeenGirlSquad
547. TehEpicRyuga
548. TempestSurge
549. Tetiro
550. Tetrin
551. ThatShadowLink
552. THE 6r
553. The Curious Volnutt
554. The One Who Wrote This
555. Thekewlusername
556. T-Hell
557. TheRealHeroOfWinds
558. TheRockingGoomba
559. TheSeanMan
560. TheSpaceKing
561. The Stoopid Unikorn
562. TheTactician
563. THE TemporaryFool
564. thethirdkoopa
565. TheZoologist
566. ThirdDay
567. ThoughtfulWanderer
568. ThunderOverload
569. TiaSilvia
570. TimeSmash
571. Tinfoil
572. Tiymako
573. ToothiestAura
574. topspin1617
575. Tornado_Man
576. Travix Man
577. TreeBranch
578. True Blue Warrior
579. Turmalinium
580. tveye
581. tyrus+
582. UltimateWario
583. Ultinarok
584. Undella2
585. User Name String
586. UtopianPoyzin
587. valkiriforce
588. Vann Accessible
589. Vegito2727
590. Venus of the Desert Bloom
591. Vintage Creep
592. Violenceman
593. WaddleMatt
594. walph
595. warelander
596. Warheart_666
597. Wigglytuff ★
598. winterofsilver
599. Wintropy
600. WhiteEaglePL
601. Xelion
602. Xenigma
603. XenoWarriorX
604. XeVioN
605. Xiivi
606. Xithyl_kykorl
607. xLemmy_KoopaX
608. xNaz
609. xpnc
610. XTremeGamer1234
611. XxLtxX
612. Yangfly Leone
613. YellowLord
614. Yggdra
615. Yoh
616. Yoshi444
617. YoshiandToad
618. Young Horsetail
619. Your Hero
620. Ypsen
621. Yuki Setsuna
622. Yusa
623. YwhaletailY
624. Zabadoo
625. Zack 2
626. zabimaru1000
627. zagman505
628. zaiman12345
629. Zalaresh
630. Zandro
631. ZanZero
632. ZarroTsu
633. ZeldaMaster
634. ZelDan
635. ZestyÑ
636. zferolie
637. zmero_
638. Zulyar
639. Zuppo

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Honestly, i really miss the ballot days. Even if most of the characters i wanted weren't likely, to have that hope meant it was possible to talk about them. It also helps 1st and 3rd party character discussions were both on equal ground, you saw discussions from Veterans, Newcomers like K.Rool and Bandanna Dee or Guests like Rayman and Banjo. It wasn't the lopsided "1st parties are unlikely and boring" shtick we have now.

I remember playing Golden Sun 1 and 2 back to back just to get onto Isaac. I remember posting all those Golden Sun Comics to keep discussion and a bit of optimism.

I didn't knew i was just making memories, i just was having fun....................

I just think it’s cool how much the ballot effected Ultimate in it’s entirety. Like sure, we didn’t get characters like Isaac, Krystal, and Shovel Knight, but at least we got Sakurai and the developers to notice them. It just makes their odds better for a possible next time.

Plus the characters we did get from it were ****ing stellar all things considered.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I just think it’s cool how much the ballot effected Ultimate in it’s entirety. Like sure, we didn’t get characters like Isaac, Krystal, and Shovel Knight, but at least we got Sakurai and the developers to notice them. It just makes their odds better for a possible next time.

Plus the characters we did get from it were ****ing stellar all things considered.

"There's always next game" would work better if, you know, Sakurai didn't say it could be ten years away. Which he shouldn't have, but I still remember it.