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Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

Guynamednelson

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They easily get angry whenever you point to them how their logic makes the speculation boring too.
The worst part is when people assume that if you want to discuss characters that aren't the usual predictions, you want to discuss Piranha Plant-tier stuff. It's not that black and white, considering the characters in the FPs that weren't common predictions are nowhere near Piranha Plant.
 

Xenigma

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Exactly. I totally understand if people want to argue that Isaac is unlikely, because in all honesty he is. AT's may not hard de-confirm, but having both a current AT and a Mii Costume are certainly two strikes against him. That said, there is still evidence to show that Isaac still has both fan demand and possible modern relevance, in addition to the fact that Sakurai has constantly shown that fan rules are meant to be broken. And what if we get a Min Min vs Springman situation where we end up getting Matthew or Felix instead of Isaac but they still basically play the same? You can argue that Isaac's chances are 50%, 40%, 20%, 1%, even 0.00001%, but to say with all confidence that the chance is absolute zero is just a pathetic example of straight-up gatekeeping. I find it hard to take people seriously when they throw around such careless assumptions. It's like my boy Obi-wan says: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes."
As someone who was very active in RTC pre-SSB4 and rated Duck Hunt as a 0%, yeah, that's not an absolute you can throw around lightly. You want to say the Camelot Bros are unlikely? Yeah, you can make a pretty strong argument for both, and you don't even need to reference their ATs to do it. You want to say they have no chance at all? Sorry, but you should know better by now.
 

Nawgust

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
19
It sounds like- and please correct me if I'm wrong here, I've rarely viewed the RTC thread- that the chance and want scores aren't really being separated. It seems like you're rating a character by both their objective and subjective chances by assigning them an arbitrary number based on your confidence (for the former) or bias (for the latter).

To be fair (to be faaaiiiaaahhh... Letterkenny anyone?), the chance score seems like it should be decided by an informed community while anyone can provide a want score. Everyone has a right to an opinion. The problem is that the people who are most informed about certain characters (see the last 1126 pages) and the people who are interested in said character are bound to have a significant amount of overlap. It's difficult to separate fact from opinion when your investment influences both.
 

Sentinel07

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 31, 2018
Messages
115
All this copyright stuff kind of goes over my head, so I'll just leave it to those who know what they're talking about and hope they're right. :D
 

Kalaam

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
808
Location
France
The latest I'd expect if it's this year would be E3 period for announcement because that'd coincide with the anniversary, if they can't release it in the first quarter. Past august I see it less likely for 2021.
 

Xenigma

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Honestly, if we don't hear something by E3/Summer, I have to wonder if the project is in trouble or if we've somehow gravely misread what Camelot's been working on. I'm not exactly worried yet given it's still January, but the idea of passing the mid-year announcement blitz and not hearing a peep about Camelot's upcoming project(s) would be awfully concerning.
 

ArkSPiTFirE

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I mean, the later it is, the less likely its going to be a Mario Sports game, unless it's in some next level development hell. They've already missed the sweet spot to release a new one.

Besides if it's as ambitious as I feel it's going to be in my head, then I can see them taking up to 4 years to make it. It would be nice to get some kind of announcement half way through the year though.
 

TempestSurge

Smash Ace
Joined
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Messages
832
Honestly, if we don't hear something by E3/Summer, I have to wonder if the project is in trouble or if we've somehow gravely misread what Camelot's been working on. I'm not exactly worried yet given it's still January, but the idea of passing the mid-year announcement blitz and not hearing a peep about Camelot's upcoming project(s) would be awfully concerning.
I think it's right not to worry about it yet. At the end of the day it's just an unnanounced game, we're only hyper focused on it cause of having the info from the trademark and the anticipation as GS fans finally seeing the series return.

We have something like Metroid Prime 4 that was announced back in 2017 as just a title and was told a year later that everything was going well, only to see development restart in 2019 and since still no word. If something along the lines of that happened to GS after it's announcement it would indeed be worrying but all we can do is wait for that announcement. And I have a feeling Nintendo is likely to not announce it too far from it's release so if it's set for the holidays it'll be a long while.
 
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Bassoonist

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Honestly, if we don't hear something by E3/Summer, I have to wonder if the project is in trouble or if we've somehow gravely misread what Camelot's been working on. I'm not exactly worried yet given it's still January, but the idea of passing the mid-year announcement blitz and not hearing a peep about Camelot's upcoming project(s) would be awfully concerning.
Is the "mid-year announcement" blitz even a thing anymore? It just feels like we're really left in the dark about when things will be announced nowadays. Sure, I still expect Pokemon announcements at the beginning of the year, and a Super Smash Bros character reveal every once in a while, but non-Pokemon game announcements come out of the blue nowadays.
 

Schonberg

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
376
They easily get angry whenever you point to them how their logic makes the speculation boring too.
Speculation will always be less interesting than just talking about characters you like or can make up a cool moveset for. Speculation historically goes off of “leaks”, sales figures, and release dates or anniversaries and says they are the only ways to determine who is coming to smash.

That makes discussion so clinical and boring, and thankfully Smash has shown time and time again that being popular, having an interesting potential moveset, being successful, being important to the history of video games, or just any reason whatsoever is a totally valid reason to put them in Smash. It’s why I stick to the support threads instead of RTC.

I miss the Smash Ballot days when people would just rally for a character they liked and came up with how they’d play instead of just hopping on the bandwagon of who’s the most ‘likely’ from some arbitrary list.
 
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Phoenix Douchebag

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ZE BATH
Speculation will always be less interesting than just talking about characters you like or can make up a cool moveset for. Speculation historically goes off of “leaks”, sales figures, and release dates or anniversaries and says they are the only ways to determine who is coming to smash.

That makes discussion so clinical and boring, and thankfully Smash has shown time and time again that being popular, having an interesting potential moveset, being successful, being important to the history of video games, or just any reason whatsoever is a totally valid reason to put them in Smash. It’s why I stick to the support threads instead of RTC.

I miss the Smash Ballot days when people would just rally for a character they liked and came up with how they’d play instead of just hopping on the bandwagon of who’s the most ‘likely’ from some arbitrary list.
Honestly, i really miss the ballot days. Even if most of the characters i wanted weren't likely, to have that hope meant it was possible to talk about them. It also helps 1st and 3rd party character discussions were both on equal ground, you saw discussions from Veterans, Newcomers like K.Rool and Bandanna Dee or Guests like Rayman and Banjo. It wasn't the lopsided "1st parties are unlikely and boring" shtick we have now.

I remember playing Golden Sun 1 and 2 back to back just to get onto Isaac. I remember posting all those Golden Sun Comics to keep discussion and a bit of optimism.

I didn't knew i was just making memories, i just was having fun....................
 

Nazyrus

Smash Champion
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Messages
2,837
I miss the Smash Ballot days when people would just rally for a character they liked and came up with how they’d play instead of just hopping on the bandwagon of who’s the most ‘likely’ from some arbitrary list.
Damn that really does bring me back. Back in 2015 I voted for a character from an NDS title that literally nobody knows about, lol. Even made my own Smashified of the character and a other silly stuff of him. It definitely were less edgy times in the fandom, lol.
 

ZelDan

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
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Speculation will always be less interesting than just talking about characters you like or can make up a cool moveset for. Speculation historically goes off of “leaks”, sales figures, and release dates or anniversaries and says they are the only ways to determine who is coming to smash.

That makes discussion so clinical and boring, and thankfully Smash has shown time and time again that being popular, having an interesting potential moveset, being successful, being important to the history of video games, or just any reason whatsoever is a totally valid reason to put them in Smash. It’s why I stick to the support threads instead of RTC.

I miss the Smash Ballot days when people would just rally for a character they liked and came up with how they’d play instead of just hopping on the bandwagon of who’s the most ‘likely’ from some arbitrary list.
Speculation doesn't have to necessarily be just about sales and leaks and whatnot. you can speculate over why a character would be a worthy, valuable addition to Smash without breaking out graphs and sales figures. you can speculate over what a character could bring to Smash through their moveset or what kind of content they could bring (music, stage, spirits, etc.).

And eh, there's still plenty of people rallying behind characters they want nowadays, and even some of the most commonly talked about characters like Crash or Doom guy or Chun Li do have their genuine fans or people who want them for "fun" reasons and not "bandwagony" ones.
 

Golden Icarus

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Speculation doesn't have to necessarily be just about sales and leaks and whatnot. you can speculate over why a character would be a worthy, valuable addition to Smash without breaking out graphs and sales figures.
That’s how I view a lot of the “bandwagon characters.” Sometimes a character being a worthy addition is enough reason for me to support them. I’m not really a huge fan of Crash. In fact, I don’t enjoy his games whatsoever. I also don’t really care for his design and the movesets that I see people propose don’t seem all that interesting to me. That said, I’m still a strong supporter of Crash. Seeing a console mascot that many people grew up with finally fight Mario and Sonic is enough reason for me to want Crash in Smash.
 

Guynamednelson

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That’s how I view a lot of the “bandwagon characters.” Sometimes a character being a worthy addition is enough reason for me to support them. I’m not really a huge fan of Crash. In fact, I don’t enjoy his games whatsoever. I also don’t really care for his design and the movesets that I see people propose don’t seem all that interesting to me. That said, I’m still a strong supporter of Crash. Seeing a console mascot that many people grew up with finally fight Mario and Sonic is enough reason for me to want Crash in Smash.
I get that many people would be happy with Crash, but considering Minecraft and FFVII are Minecraft and FFVII, I feel like Nintendo's going to think they're already happy. Steve's going to appeal to everyone under 20 and Sephiroth everyone over 20, while each character in FP1 had multiple obstacles preventing them from appealing to everyone. Except Hero, who still had an obstacle in that DQ is only massive in Japan.
 

N3ON

Gone Exploring
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I get that many people would be happy with Crash, but considering Minecraft and FFVII are Minecraft and FFVII, I feel like Nintendo's going to think they're already happy. Steve's going to appeal to everyone under 20 and Sephiroth everyone over 20, while each character in FP1 had multiple obstacles preventing them from appealing to everyone. Except Hero, who still had an obstacle in that DQ is only massive in Japan.
Well by that logic they could just stop now, with everyone already catered to. But there are three characters left. If there's already been catering across the board, there's nothing left to do but overlap.

That isn't really true though. Even with its scope and success, FF7 content doesn't appeal to everyone over 20. I know a number of people who play Smash who haven't played any game in the FF series.
 

Guynamednelson

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That isn't really true though. Even with its scope and success, FF7 content doesn't appeal to everyone over 20. I know a number of people who play Smash who haven't played any game in the FF series
It's an exaggeration. Sephiroth can appeal to a good, good chunk of boomers, but obviously not all of them due to FFVII being mostly considered a PS1 game.
 

N3ON

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It's an exaggeration. Sephiroth can appeal to a good, good chunk of boomers, but obviously not all of them due to FFVII being mostly considered a PS1 game.
But the point stands that overlap doesn't seem to be a large deterrent to Nintendo. FP1 had three RPG characters that released within three years of each other. In FP2, even if one character shares traits with another, there are still four other characters. So far all three have been pretty different.
 

Guynamednelson

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But the point stands that overlap doesn't seem to be a large deterrent to Nintendo. FP1 had three RPG characters that released within three years of each other. In FP2, even if one character shares traits with another, there are still four other characters. So far all three have been pretty different.
Still, with 90% of everyone who would've bought the pass having already bought it thanks to S&S, they might as well appeal to the remaining 10%. Just like how :ultisabelle::ultincineroar::ultpiranha: were for a more casual audience than the ballot picks.
 

DrakeHavok

Smash Cadet
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Messages
69
Regardless of what happens, I still think at least one more first-party character is likely for this Fighter Pass.
I hope so at least. I've always held the notion that first party characters should hold precedent over third party, but Ultimate has been very liberal with its third party invites. That's not to say any of the present 3rd parties have no reason to be here, I just wish Nintendo would focus on their own properties more, especially ones that have been neglected for too long.
 

Guynamednelson

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Regardless of what happens, I still think at least one more first-party character is likely for this Fighter Pass.
I'm actually betting on three since Steve and Sephiroth would be more expensive than the guests in FP1 and are enough for 90% of everyone who was going to buy the pass to do so.

That and it would match how much Smash fans tend to be wrong.
 
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ZelDan

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I'm actually betting on three since Steve and Sephiroth would be more expensive than the guests in FP1 and are enough for 90% of everyone who was going to buy the pass to do so.

That and it would match how much Smash fans tend to be wrong.
3 first party picks is...incredibly optimistic...

While Sakurai's budget for Ultimate likely isn't limitless, considering how much he has been able to pull off and how stupidly successful Smash and its DLC has been I really wouldn't be surprised if Sakurai's still looking nice on the budget front. besides, not every third party characters is some super huge or expensive Steve or Sephiroth level character; there are smaller third party characters that could always happen that likely wouldn't strain a SSBU level budget.

At most I could maybe see 2 more first party picks, and even THAT I'm really not confident in and wouldn't exactly bet on.

I do agree however that I think we atleast have one more first party character in store somewhere between these 3 remaining slots.
 

DanganZilla5

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While I'm stopping by here I'll lend my support. I haven't gotten too far into the first Golden Sun but man you guys deserve this so much. You are probably the most passionate fanbase that I've seen in the Smash community. Isaac would be a great choice and he is my number one choice for the next first party character as he would round out the first party lineup really well. Not to mention he has sick moveset potential and songs. I'm predicting one more first party character and while I think it's going to be Rex personally, if that new Golden Sun game gets announced this year then Isaac will definitely jump up in chances as he already has the long-term fan support and I don't think assist trophies matter anymore. Some people have their arguments, but the reality is that there is no strong argument for why assist trophies deconfirm in this pass. Not to mention I get the vibe that the Smash team is aware of Isaac's demand with his assist trophy and costume, two songs, and a fairly impressive lineup of spirits for a series with no playable reps.

I'm praying for you Isaac fans. After K. Rool, Ridley, and Banjo, this game has been the stuff of dreams and it feels like Isaac is more likely than ever. Hopefully a golden sun will rise and shine above Ultimate sometime this year.
 
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True Blue Warrior

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I’ve added you.

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  360. Neo Zero
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  435. RegiGygas117
  436. RenH
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  440. RetrogamerMax
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  442. RhymeswithEmpty
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  445. RosaPeach
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  540. tbuster766
  541. TCT~Phantom
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  543. Techno1000
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  563. THE TemporaryFool
  564. thethirdkoopa
  565. TheZoologist
  566. ThirdDay
  567. ThoughtfulWanderer
  568. ThunderOverload
  569. TiaSilvia
  570. TimeSmash
  571. Tinfoil
  572. Tiymako
  573. ToothiestAura
  574. topspin1617
  575. Tornado_Man
  576. Travix Man
  577. TreeBranch
  578. True Blue Warrior
  579. Turmalinium
  580. tveye
  581. tyrus+
  582. UltimateWario
  583. Ultinarok
  584. Undella2
  585. User Name String
  586. UtopianPoyzin
  587. valkiriforce
  588. Vann Accessible
  589. Vegito2727
  590. Venus of the Desert Bloom
  591. Vintage Creep
  592. Violenceman
  593. WaddleMatt
  594. walph
  595. warelander
  596. Warheart_666
  597. Wigglytuff ★
  598. winterofsilver
  599. Wintropy
  600. WhiteEaglePL
  601. Xelion
  602. Xenigma
  603. XenoWarriorX
  604. XeVioN
  605. Xiivi
  606. Xithyl_kykorl
  607. xLemmy_KoopaX
  608. xNaz
  609. xpnc
  610. XTremeGamer1234
  611. XxLtxX
  612. Yangfly Leone
  613. YellowLord
  614. Yggdra
  615. Yoh
  616. Yoshi444
  617. YoshiandToad
  618. Young Horsetail
  619. Your Hero
  620. Ypsen
  621. Yuki Setsuna
  622. Yusa
  623. YwhaletailY
  624. Zabadoo
  625. Zack 2
  626. zabimaru1000
  627. zagman505
  628. zaiman12345
  629. Zalaresh
  630. Zandro
  631. ZanZero
  632. ZarroTsu
  633. ZeldaMaster
  634. ZelDan
  635. ZestyÑ
  636. zferolie
  637. zmero_
  638. Zulyar
  639. Zuppo
 

NonSpecificGuy

V Has Come To
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Honestly, i really miss the ballot days. Even if most of the characters i wanted weren't likely, to have that hope meant it was possible to talk about them. It also helps 1st and 3rd party character discussions were both on equal ground, you saw discussions from Veterans, Newcomers like K.Rool and Bandanna Dee or Guests like Rayman and Banjo. It wasn't the lopsided "1st parties are unlikely and boring" shtick we have now.

I remember playing Golden Sun 1 and 2 back to back just to get onto Isaac. I remember posting all those Golden Sun Comics to keep discussion and a bit of optimism.

I didn't knew i was just making memories, i just was having fun....................
I just think it’s cool how much the ballot effected Ultimate in it’s entirety. Like sure, we didn’t get characters like Isaac, Krystal, and Shovel Knight, but at least we got Sakurai and the developers to notice them. It just makes their odds better for a possible next time.

Plus the characters we did get from it were ****ing stellar all things considered.
 

Guynamednelson

Smash Legend
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3DS FC
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Switch FC
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I just think it’s cool how much the ballot effected Ultimate in it’s entirety. Like sure, we didn’t get characters like Isaac, Krystal, and Shovel Knight, but at least we got Sakurai and the developers to notice them. It just makes their odds better for a possible next time.

Plus the characters we did get from it were ****ing stellar all things considered.
"There's always next game" would work better if, you know, Sakurai didn't say it could be ten years away. Which he shouldn't have, but I still remember it.
 
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