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Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

TempestSurge

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 20, 2014
Messages
832
Alright, strap in. This is going to be a long one.



I feel as if there are two conflicting issues with the AT status. Think of the mii costumes in Smash 4, right now it's being spoken of in hindsight as proof for characters becoming newcomers for this game. But when that King K. Rool mii costume came out, fans weren't thinking, 'Alright! We got something! This means he'll definitely get something in the next game!' Same with the Ridley stage boss, sure it was something, but for fans who have been supporting that character for so long, It was just a devastating deconfirmation.

I get it. Golden Sun lost its assist trophy in 4, we got the bare bones minimum not even a trophy, even King K. Rool got that. So getting anything is better than that. No I want Isaac to be playable, not have some consolation prize. An updated assist model of Isaac taken from Brawl feels like all the ballot support meant nothing. Porting Isaac's assist trophy is something Sakurai could have easily done in Smash 4! Yet that wasn't done. Isaac already exists in the game, Sakurai can just go through his old Brawl assists and update leftover returning assist trophies on his own, he doesn't need massive fan demand for something like that. It'd be one thing if Isaac had never made an appearance till now and he was a new assist as the result of the ballot like Shovel Knight and Krystal for instance.

Even popular characters who are still stuck in assist trophy status like Lyn, Ashley, Waluigi etc. they have playable representatives of their franchise present. Isaac is the face of his own franchise, he has the best shot of being playable at all. If he's an assist trophy, that's it for playable Golden Sun, of course there's Felix and Matthew but there are people who barely know Isaac as it is, it'll be harder rallying support for another as big as Isaac.

Another reason to shoot for playability over an AT slot is that Isaac has way more riding on this than just some little acknowledgement from Nintendo after so many years. Smash can create the needed fan demand to bring back the Golden Sun series, Isaac could start cameoing in other Nintendo games and be put back on the market again, maybe he could be a secret character in a future Mario Tennis game, I don't know lol.

Isaac's updated assist trophy model, sure it'll be nice to see Golden Boy back, sure we'll be happy for a good bit, but it'll also be a massive tease to see him at all and not be able to play him, especially when all the other long awaited fan requested characters make it in. When other characters like Ridley, K. Rool, Geno (not confirmed yet but possibility) will be able to leave their mark in Ultimate and be remembered, for new audiences to see these characters and learn about them, making a comeback in some fashion. Isaac will just be an item that people turn off and forget about after a year. Some people don't even like playing with items period, so there will be people who won't see Isaac at all, and that will be a sad timeline. Isaac's back but he's not playable so no one cares but his fans and he certainly won't make a big impact as an assist trophy, enough to make people demand Golden Sun's return.

Also I'm really really not looking forward to all the smug Isaac hate trolls that will come out of the woodwork and point and say I told you so or that they knew Isaac was just some character from a dead franchise that Nintendo doesn't care to make playable and yada yada. Will I throw a tantrum at Isaac being an assist trophy, of course not, just Isaac being playable will be:

 

N1N

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 21, 2015
Messages
45
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NNID
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I am also pretty late on voicing my support for Isaac. Golden Sun 1 and 2 are my favorite games of all time, and seeing characters like Corrin, Cloud, and Bayo announced in Smash 4 while Golden Sun was ignored hurt. Afterwards I told myself that Isaac would never get into Smash, but I am more hopeful this time, especially with that Rathalos screenshot.
 

NoOtherPersona

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 25, 2018
Messages
1,577
Switch FC
SW-4922-9697-9289
It's been years Nintendo ignores too many franchises and assumes nobody wants them when in reality it's there fault these franchises don't reach the audience it needs too reach success if they just marketed it better it would have survived that's the biggest problem with them they don't market there stuff properly and then when it bites them in the a$$ they say well nobody wants what were selling guess we won't try this again that's why I'm happy about the ballot it showed them they don't know what we want they think they know but they never asked this is Isaacs shot I'm not losing hope.
 
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True Blue Warrior

Smash Hero
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Updated.

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Flynn.Scifo

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 22, 2014
Messages
687
Location
Paris . France
In case anyone is still wandering about the possible inclusion of Xenoblade DLC in Monster hunter, veteran here and trust me anything can be DLC in MH it doesn't have to make sens. It's only joke costumes and weapons most of the time. We had futuristic stuff like Metroid, out of place like Yu gi oh, megaman, to street fighter ... I mean look :
mh dlc.jpg
 

Sabrewulf238

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
5,164
Location
Ireland
I'm really not convinced that Sakurai would concern himself with teasing Monster Hunter dlc.

Wouldn't that be Capcoms job?
 

SonicLink125

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 13, 2014
Messages
1,439
NNID
SonicLink
In case anyone is still wandering about the possible inclusion of Xenoblade DLC in Monster hunter, veteran here and trust me anything can be DLC in MH it doesn't have to make sens. It's only joke costumes and weapons most of the time. We had futuristic stuff like Metroid, out of place like Yu gi oh, megaman, to street fighter ... I mean look :
View attachment 159699
I've never played MH, but man, if they had Golden Sun costumes in it, I'd buy it in a heartbeat!
 

oh.glory

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 17, 2018
Messages
3
Finally decided to stop lurking and give my suppport! I’d like to be added to the suppprter list. I really enjoy reading the comments here and seeing the huge support Isaac has. Keep up the good fight everybody!
 

THE 6r

Smash Ace
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Messages
898
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6r$¢€£¥™©®
3DS FC
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Switch FC
SW-1195-6602-2525
Finally decided to stop lurking and give my suppport! I’d like to be added to the suppprter list. I really enjoy reading the comments here and seeing the huge support Isaac has. Keep up the good fight everybody!
Welcome! Always glad to add another face to the forum.
 

QcSlayer

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 9, 2018
Messages
244
Guys, I know why it's Marth and not Roy who represent Garet, someone on youtube pointed it out!

TazTheYellow:
Something also worth noting is that Marth could also be a pun, seeing as Garet is a MARS Adept.


Did you know that Marth name in Japanese is Pronounce MARuSu
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marth_(Fire_Emblem)

and in the Fire Emblem OVA (yes it was a thing even before Fire Emblem 7 came to the west).
Marth name was translate as MARS.

It could be a nod to the westerner since Isaac is not that popular in Japan.
 

Flynn.Scifo

Smash Ace
Joined
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Messages
687
Location
Paris . France
As far as I can remember there never was Golden sun DLC for Monster Hunter. MH DLCs are free so I think they're used to promote recent games and stuff.
 

SonicLink125

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
1,439
NNID
SonicLink
Guys, I know why it's Marth and not Roy who represent Garet, someone on youtube pointed it out!

TazTheYellow:
Something also worth noting is that Marth could also be a pun, seeing as Garet is a MARS Adept.


Did you know that Marth name in Japanese is Pronounce MARuSu
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marth_(Fire_Emblem)

and in the Fire Emblem OVA (yes it was a thing even before Fire Emblem 7 came to the west).
Marth name was translate as MARS.

It could be a nod to the westerner since Isaac is not that popular in Japan.
We're getting deeper, fellas! Let's keep going!
 

THE 6r

Smash Ace
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Does anyone know where I can get a really dope tin-foil hat? I need one every time I'm about to post in here.
 

jweb23

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
416
Does anyone know where I can get a really dope tin-foil hat? I need one every time I'm about to post in here.
I simply made mine with some Reynolds wrap. It’s not difficult to make at all. I’ve been wearing it ever since King K Rool got announced.
 

tveye

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
208
Location
Missouri
Honestly, the biggest hint we have is Sakurai's comment on taking inspiration from the Smash ballot. Obviously a lot of us voted for Isaac and more people across the internet have as well.

There's is no way he won't be in the game in any form at this point and the fact that we haven't seen him at all makes me think he's finally playable. Same thing with Geno and Skull Kid, honestly. Bandana Waddle Dee also has a pretty good shot, but I don't think he's ever had any representation in Smash (trophy or otherwise).
 

Istry555

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 10, 2018
Messages
44
So, my current thinking is that Isaac getting in is entirely dependent on how many newcomers are left. I've been leaning towards 3-4 newcomers left.

If there's 4, I don't think Isaac will get in the base game (maybe still DLC) because I don't see Ultimate breaking from the tradition of a Pokemon newcomer, a NES style retro rep (the ballot is being consulted but not exclusively used), plus I feel there's another 3rd party on the way, and finally there are few characters like Skull Kid and -ugh- Geno that seem to be more talked about/"leaked" than Isaac at the moment. (Geno by all counts would also be a"retro" rep but Smash seems to use mostly NES/pre-NES franchises for the retro slot).

However, if there's 6 newcomers left (making an even 10 total newcomers... echoes don't count) then I feel Isaac has a very good chance. After you get through what I listed above, there's very few other characters besides Isaac that have the ballot/fanbase popularity to fill up the remaining newcomers. Bandana Dee is another big maybe (as a Kirby newcomer is really really wanted in Japan).

I think the real wildcard is how many more 3rd parties we're getting, as those are characters that could represent big franchises and have fan backing to fill up the rest of the newcomers. (Although, it would annoy me to no end to have yet even more 3rd parties get in over the few remaining Nintendo franchises with dedicated fanbases like Isaac).

So I kind of see it going like this:

1) Pokemon
2) Retro
3) Skull Kid
4) Geno/Other 3rd Party
~~
5&6) Isaac/Bandana Dee/Other 3rd Party
 
Last edited:

?!?!?!

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 9, 2018
Messages
585
Seeing all of this support for Isaac is great no doubt, but I just wonder if it was like this at during the smash ballot era. And like how much of this support was actually translated into ballot votes? I was personally never on smash boards back then and didn't follow that much in terms of character speculation, but I sure as hell voted like crazy for Isaac and geno. I just wonder if that was the case for most of isaac's supporters.


If there's 4, I don't think Isaac will get in the base game (maybe still DLC) because I don't see Ultimate breaking from the tradition of a Pokemon newcomer, a NES style retro rep (the ballot is being consulted but not exclusively used), plus I feel there's another 3rd party on the way, and finally there are few characters like Skull Kid and -ugh- Geno that seem to be more talked about/"leaked" than Isaac at the moment.
Well geno is third party so he could very much fill that role. I personally think other third parties like banjo for example would be dlc

Even with just 4 newcomers Isaac still has a decent chance, after all he is the expected #1 overall pick after (de)confirmed characters based on that exit poll

Also you mentioned a retro rep, wouldn't Simon be the retro rep?
 
Last edited:

Flynn.Scifo

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 22, 2014
Messages
687
Location
Paris . France
Here goes my prediction !

- Isaac / Felix
- Chorus kids
- A zelda rep (not 100% convinced about Skull Kid yet)
- A 3rd party (Geno or Monster Hunter)
- 7th gen Pokemon (sorry Gothitelle fans)
- An oddball

No new Kirby, kid icarus, Xenoblade, Fire emblem, Mario, Earthbound, Starfox, Sonic characters. If anything, Echoes.
 
Last edited:

GoldenBoy01

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 23, 2018
Messages
11
I was just thinking how Sakurai loves to add small details for fighters, such as Bayonetta's shadow, Ike's voice, Megaman's death animation etc. So, if Isaac was in Smash, what tiny details would you want to see? Personally I think it would be cool if KOd fighters made the screech that enemies in GS do.
 

Huanchi

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 8, 2018
Messages
122
My Prediction:

-Isaac/Felix
-Skull Kid
-Shadow
-No new Pokemon
-Random character that we dont expect
 
Last edited:

Flynn.Scifo

Smash Ace
Joined
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Messages
687
Location
Paris . France
I was just thinking how Sakurai loves to add small details for fighters, such as Bayonetta's shadow, Ike's voice, Megaman's death animation etc. So, if Isaac was in Smash, what tiny details would you want to see? Personally I think it would be cool if KOd fighters made the screech that enemies in GS do.
Sound effects in Golden sun are very distinct, I'd like for it to stay true to the original.
 

?!?!?!

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 9, 2018
Messages
585
I was just thinking how Sakurai loves to add small details for fighters, such as Bayonetta's shadow, Ike's voice, Megaman's death animation etc. So, if Isaac was in Smash, what tiny details would you want to see? Personally I think it would be cool if KOd fighters made the screech that enemies in GS do.
I like that idea. Or maybe if his forward smash is a leap with his sword he could have the critical hit sound effect if the attack connects. That would make it super satisfying to land the hit
 

isaac3000

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
217
Location
Germany
I am also wondering, what if Isaac didn't make it well in the ballot so he wasn't considered but all this spam on Sakurai's twitter the fan polls the articles etc. about him made Sakurai push for Isaac just NOW being in the base game? Could this be possible?
 

Sabrewulf238

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
5,164
Location
Ireland
Seeing all of this support for Isaac is great no doubt, but I just wonder if it was like this at during the smash ballot era. And like how much of this support was actually translated into ballot votes? I was personally never on smash boards back then and didn't follow that much in terms of character speculation, but I sure as hell voted like crazy for Isaac and geno. I just wonder if that was the case for most of isaac's supporters.
We were pretty active during the Smash ballot and Isaac was often in the top 5 of polls back then. So I don't think we have to worry too much about the support being there. I think it just matters what Sakurai thought of that support.

Personally I'm thinking we're going to get 4-6 unique newcomers.

In order of most likely to least likely:

Incineroar/7th gen Pokemon
Geno
Isaac
Bandana Dee
Elma
Banjo & Kazooie

If we were to get the same ratio for the next three reveals (2 uniques + 3 echoes) then you would expect to end up with 6 uniques and 9 echoes. I think that's pretty shaky logic but I'm going to go with it when predicting echoes. So now I'll list out 9 echoes we might end up getting. These aren't in any particular order, just as I think of them.

Isabelle
Ken
Shadow
Dixie Kong
Felix
Black Knight
Black Shadow
Ninten
*insert some sorta popular character that would make for an easy echo character*

Would Sephiroth work as a Cloud echo? I'm not really sure. There's Jeanne but Bayonetta still has her Jeanne colour alt so probably not.

I am also wondering, what if Isaac didn't make it well in the ballot so he wasn't considered but all this spam on Sakurai's twitter the fan polls the articles etc. about him made Sakurai push for Isaac just NOW being in the base game? Could this be possible?
Absolutely no way. If he's in he was chosen back in 2015.

The only way that response on his Twitter could effect anything would be for DLC. (though I think it would take a bit more than some Twitter spam to make Sakurai add a character)
 
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DogManStar

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 16, 2018
Messages
599
Location
Texas
I am also wondering, what if Isaac didn't make it well in the ballot so he wasn't considered but all this spam on Sakurai's twitter the fan polls the articles etc. about him made Sakurai push for Isaac just NOW being in the base game? Could this be possible?
Perhaps he would consider making him DLC. If Isaac truly didn’t perform well at all, it’s possible the AT might not even return either.
 
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THE 6r

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 4, 2015
Messages
898
Location
Fairfax,VA + Los Angeles, CA
NNID
6r$¢€£¥™©®
3DS FC
2981-7049-0538
Switch FC
SW-1195-6602-2525
Roster Prediction (as of now):

Isaac (w. Felix echo)
RH rep
Skull Kid
Bandana Dee
Geno
Incineroar
Banjo (either base or dlc)
Sora (either base or dlc)

Echoes

Shadow (Sonic)
Ken (Ryu)
Black Knight (Ike)
Ninten (Ness
Black Shadow (CF)
Isabelle (Villager)
Dixie Kong (Diddy Kong)

DLC(?)

Banjo (either base or dlc)
Sora (either base or dlc)
Springman
Rex & Pyra

Edit: Forgot Dixie
 
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Istry555

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 10, 2018
Messages
44
SAlso you mentioned a retro rep, wouldn't Simon be the retro rep?
Well, 3rd parties are very much exceptions to things. Plus, all the past retro characters are not just the characters but the franchises themselves which haven't really had a game since the NES/pre-NES era (Game&Watch, Ice Climbers, Kid Icarus [Pit was retro when he was included], Gyromite, Duck Hunt). Castlevania is still very much an active series (last main game was only 4 years ago, plus a mobile game in development, plus the anime).

Geno is 3rd party, he is also basically retro, but he's such an odd character that I don't know if he would count towards either. He's almost a pure Sakurai bias character at this point (since if Sakurai didn't mention him I doubt his support would be nearly as high), he's technically from a Mario game but owned by Square, he's also completely unknown to the general public.

That's the thing with 3rd party newcomers, they're either an iconic character/franchise in their own right or they're at least a big name to get the general public excited. Geno fits neither category so his inclusion would be more fan service/Sakurai bias more than the retro and newcomer characters, in my opinion. Now, Simon does fit this, but I just feel there's another 3rd party newcomer like that also coming given the general direction of Smash the past few games.
 
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KMDP

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
12,199
Guys, I know why it's Marth and not Roy who represent Garet, someone on youtube pointed it out!

TazTheYellow:
Something also worth noting is that Marth could also be a pun, seeing as Garet is a MARS Adept.


Did you know that Marth name in Japanese is Pronounce MARuSu
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marth_(Fire_Emblem)

and in the Fire Emblem OVA (yes it was a thing even before Fire Emblem 7 came to the west).
Marth name was translate as MARS.

It could be a nod to the westerner since Isaac is not that popular in Japan.
It wouldn't be a nod to early western Fire Emblem, it would just be a straight-up pun.

"マルス" is Marth's name, it is also how "Mars" is transliterated in Japanese.

Marth is literally just "Mars", the fact that Nintendo translates it as "Marth" is the weird bit. :chuckle:
We're getting deeper, fellas! Let's keep going!
BWONG
 

XenoWarriorX

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Messages
2,278
In case anyone is still wandering about the possible inclusion of Xenoblade DLC in Monster hunter, veteran here and trust me anything can be DLC in MH it doesn't have to make sens. It's only joke costumes and weapons most of the time. We had futuristic stuff like Metroid, out of place like Yu gi oh, megaman, to street fighter ... I mean look :
View attachment 159699
There's a goddamn samus costume...


Alright, i take back my first point.

But my second point still stands. >->
 

QcSlayer

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 9, 2018
Messages
244
Since the choice for newcomers were based on the ballot, and Skull Kid is nowhere to be seen in the 2015 polls, do you think that (if he made it, which I'm not sure) it would be because the Legends of Zelda as a serie got's lots of vote for newcomers, Vaati, Skull Kid, Girahim, Impa. Then when you combine them all they decide to pick one for the series as a whole?
 

Sabrewulf238

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
5,164
Location
Ireland
Ignoring the fact that they're from different franchises. Do you think Giygas could work as a Mewtwo echo?

I feel like if we were to get a cross-franchise echo that's the one that would seem the most fitting. (wasn't Mewtwo supposed to have had it's design influenced by Giygas in the original Mother?)

I kinda want a Giygas echo with his final form from Earthbound as his final smash now....
 
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XenoWarriorX

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Messages
2,278
Ignoring the fact that they're from different franchises. Do you think Giygas could work as a Mewtwo echo?

I feel like if we were to get a cross-franchise echo that's the one that would seem the most fitting. (wasn't Mewtwo supposed to have had it's design influenced by Giygas in the original Mother?)

I kinda want a Giygas echo with his final form from Earthbound as his final smash now....
No.



Doesn't even work.
 

Skyblade12

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jul 17, 2014
Messages
3,871
3DS FC
1547-6378-0895
Prediction:
3 Unique newcomers.
1 in a September Direct.
2 in a November Smash Direct.
 

alguidrag

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 1, 2015
Messages
871
Location
Ylisse
My prediction

28/8 we will get Shantae

19/9 we will get Isaac

10/10 We will get Skull Kid/Geno/ Waddle Dee/

20/11 We will get Banjoo


At least one echo in each trailer
 

DogManStar

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 16, 2018
Messages
599
Location
Texas
Prediction:
3 Unique newcomers.
1 in a September Direct.
2 in a November Smash Direct.
I agree, except I would put the November characters in late October maybe. Sakurai might not want to wait until the last minute, so as to avoid a last minute leak like the ESRB thing.
 

GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
10,169
Ignoring the fact that they're from different franchises. Do you think Giygas could work as a Mewtwo echo?

I feel like if we were to get a cross-franchise echo that's the one that would seem the most fitting. (wasn't Mewtwo supposed to have had it's design influenced by Giygas in the original Mother?)

I kinda want a Giygas echo with his final form from Earthbound as his final smash now....
I think it’d work and I’d love to see it happen.
 
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