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Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

XenoWarriorX

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Oh yeah, Japan barely had any idea Little Mac was. :laugh:

Scrap everyone except :ultmario::ultluigi::ultpeach::ultdaisy::ultrosalina::ultbowser::ultbowserjr::ultyoshi::ultdk::ultdiddy::ultlink::ultyounglink::ulttoonlink::ultzelda::ultsheik::ultganondorf::ultpokemontrainer::ultpikachu::ultpichu::ultjigglypuff::ultmewtwo::ultlucario::ultgreninja:
They're the only ones who matter.

Even Diddy Kong, Sheik and Jigglypuff are on thin ice.
In fact, get rid of Daisy. She was only in one game on the game boy.
 
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XenoWarriorX

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But Daisy is consistently in the Mario Spin Offs, Xeno.

Sheik is the one who's only been in one game ever.
Easy fix. Discard them both.

MY SMASH BROS GAMES ARE ONLY FOR RELAVENT CHARACTERS.

P.S. plz put in wonder red Nintendo I wouldove it.
 

Lonodel

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I'm just saying that if Isaac is an AT I'd probably be more disappointed than if he just wasn't in at all, everyone here keeps saying "oh it'll be at least something for golden sun" but if they really take the time to give him an updated model for his AT because he scored high on the ballot they might as well have made him playable, he's at least first party man I'm not asking for some one not made by Nintendo here lol
 
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DogManStar

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I'm just saying that if Isaac is an AT I'd probably be more disappointed than if he just wasn't in at all, everyone here keeps saying "oh it'll be at least something for golden sun" but if they really take the time to give him an updated model for his AT because he scored high on the ballot they might as well have made him playable, he's at least first party man I'm not asking for some one not made by Nintendo here lol
Yeah, I'm starting to think maybe he'll either be playable or get nothing at all again this time. I'm probably just gonna give up forever if the latter happens again though. I don't think I have the will to do this stuff for a decade like most of you guys have. Too much of an emotional rollercoaster.
 

Organization XIII

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I'm just saying that if Isaac is an AT I'd probably be more disappointed than if he just wasn't in at all, everyone here keeps saying "oh it'll be at least something for golden sun" but if they really take the time to give him an updated model for his AT because he scored high on the ballot they might as well have made him playable, he's at least first party man I'm not asking for some one not made by Nintendo here lol
I get where you're coming from but man nothing was worse than going through Smash 4 speculation scene and walking away with nothing. AT > Nothing any day for me personally and if after 2 games and so much fan demand we still don't even get an AT then I have no hope of ever seeing Isaac or Golden Sun again so I can't take him being nothing again.
 

Sabrewulf238

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I don't really get why the tweet image was staged on the coliseum stage if it's meant to be a reference to the Monster Hunter cover art. All the Monster Hunter covers I've seen have had them out in the wilderness.

I mean Gaur Plains is right there. It would have been perfect.
 

DogManStar

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I don't really get why the tweet image was staged on the coliseum stage if it's meant to be a reference to the Monster Hunter cover art. All the Monster Hunter covers I've seen have had them out in the wilderness.

I mean Gaur Plains is right there. It would have been perfect.
Something's up, I agree. idk if it's an Isaac hint, but something is suspicious about the entire composition of that screenshot. Sakurai said that he is careful about what he tweets, so I feel like he wouldn't do this without meaning behind it. What the meaning is, I don't know for sure.
 

Retroend

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if any leaks come up could you guys tag me? i'm super busy with a full time job and school and would really appreciate it. thanks in advance.
 

ThoughtfulWanderer

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Yeah, I'm starting to think maybe he'll either be playable or get nothing at all again this time. I'm probably just gonna give up forever if the latter happens again though. I don't think I have the will to do this stuff for a decade like most of you guys have. Too much of an emotional rollercoaster.
If we're talking about getting nothing in the base game, definitely don't give up on Isaac. Being completely absent will fuel people to make a massive DLC push whereas an AT will make them feel as if it's a done deal (which I don't agree with at all. Keep your voices loud no matter what). Many fans of other characters have already come around to the thread to support Isaac so it's definitely possible they'd play a part in a DLC movement.

Personally, I'd find him being completely absent again very suspicious. It's not as if we have any reason to believe he was a no show ballot-wise, so why would he not even get a consolation prize? Not ranking high enough to get any better than an AT is something I could believe, but a no-show? It might actually be more likely that he'd be in the works for DLC. People can call me too hopeful but I really am trying to look at this logically. Really, if Shovel Knight and Krystal got something, than Isaac has to.

I don't really get why the tweet image was staged on the coliseum stage if it's meant to be a reference to the Monster Hunter cover art. All the Monster Hunter covers I've seen have had them out in the wilderness.

I mean Gaur Plains is right there. It would have been perfect.
I'm not a MH fan, but don't most monster battles also take place in massive open environments rather than closed off arenas? It wouldn't really befit the series for a reference to be in a coliseum if that were the case.
 

jweb23

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Not trying to get everyone's expectations higher than they should be but I honestly believe Isaac is a playable character. Personally I always thought we would be getting 8-10 unique newcomers so I'm expecting at least 4 more character reveals. Some people think Geno and Banjo will be 2 of them but after reading the translated version of Sakurai's interview, I now think any other 3rd parties are gonna be dlc. Sakurai talks about how difficult it is just to get 3rd parties in, almost as if he's saying not to expect anymore for now. I believe the remaining newcomers will all be Nintendo characters but I wouldn't be surprised if the final reveal is a 3rd party though.

Base roster: Fan votes
DLC: Remaining 3rd Parties and Promotional Characters (most likely new Fire Emblem Three Houses character and Gen 8 Pokemon)
 

Nossnitro102

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I'm surprisingly more optimistic this time too. I just think it's strange that they did that angle and stuff so specifically AND it was in a colosseum which just doesn't scream MH for me. If you wanted to promote MH it would be in a more wild area I feel. Plus the line up as well was done deliberately and wasn't in homage to anything really BUT GS (though someone will obviously try to refute that point but I just don't see any other candidate here). Plus the Capcom thing as if this was potentially leaking something related to Capcom/MH content I'm sure they'd have a problem with Sakurai doing that.

I mean...I just don't see it referencing anything else really..
 

pholtos

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I don't know if that angle + setup of characters standing + Rathalos being where it is is possible in the base game, and honestly feel it was deliberately setup in that way. So yes, I am of the opinion it's a direct hint towards Golden Sun.
 

alguidrag

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As I said before, if Isaac appears as a AT, I would just run to a Matthew thread! If he don't appear, I will start saying "ISAAC FOR DLC", anyway I will not give up, until the very end, last time they got me with Robin, the only character I wanted in the same power I wanted Isaac, so Nintendo don't have anymore characters that can distract me! I won't give up on OUR dream!
 

TeenGirlSquad

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I don't know if that angle + setup of characters standing + Rathalos being where it is is possible in the base game, and honestly feel it was deliberately setup in that way. So yes, I am of the opinion it's a direct hint towards Golden Sun.
That's actually an interesting point that I hadn't noticed. At first I thought the angle was just so that he could get Rathalos and the three characters in the shot in a way that looked good and cinematic. But the fact that the three characters are positioned in such a way that it looks like they are all on the same plane, facing Rathalos, seems a lot more difficult to set up and a lot more deliberate.
 

Thirdkoopa

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I'm not a MH fan, but don't most monster battles also take place in massive open environments rather than closed off arenas? It wouldn't really befit the series for a reference to be in a coliseum if that were the case.
Ding ding ding. We have a winner.

I'm of the definite opinion that it's a Golden Sun reference. The question - Does a Golden Sun reference mean anything?
 

Sabrewulf238

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I'm surprisingly more optimistic this time too. I just think it's strange that they did that angle and stuff so specifically AND it was in a colosseum which just doesn't scream MH for me. If you wanted to promote MH it would be in a more wild area I feel. Plus the line up as well was done deliberately and wasn't in homage to anything really BUT GS (though someone will obviously try to refute that point but I just don't see any other candidate here). Plus the Capcom thing as if this was potentially leaking something related to Capcom/MH content I'm sure they'd have a problem with Sakurai doing that.

I mean...I just don't see it referencing anything else really..
Not to mention we know Sakurai is looking at the ballot for characters to add and sure we don't know how well Isaac and Golden Sun did on the ballot, but I think we did well enough to catch Sakurai's attention.

It's not just one thing that makes me think that tweet is a Golden Sun reference. It's also the context surrounding it.
 

ThoughtfulWanderer

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Ding ding ding. We have a winner.

I'm of the definite opinion that it's a Golden Sun reference. The question - Does a Golden Sun reference mean anything?
During the days of speculation and fanservice? No way he would just make a reference like that for just giggles or even an AT. People believe Sakurai is dropping hints left and right with barrels and ladders pointing to K. Rool and "red eyes" pointing to Simon.

If this is an intentional reference, Isaac is undoubtedly playable.
 

alguidrag

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Just one thing
I love how (strangely) our community is more realistic in some ways
Like I see videos with the title
"Why Geno/Rex/Waddle Dee/Waluigi/ Skull Kid/Incineroar/ Goku WILL be in Smash ultimate"
then when I reach Isaac
"Why Isaac COULD/HAVE CHANCE/ SEEMS LIKELY to be in Smash Ultimate"
The "Isaactubers" are more "Guys, we can have our chance, with luck our sun will rise again"
when most others are
"This character is in the game for sure because Sakurai likes surprise so even a AT can be playable!!! I'M SURE WALUIGI IS PLAYABLE WAAAAAH!"
 

Thirdkoopa

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During the days of speculation and fanservice? No way he would just make a reference like that for just giggles or even an AT. People believe Sakurai is dropping hints left and right with barrels and ladders pointing to K. Rool and "red eyes" pointing to Simon.

If this is an intentional reference, Isaac is undoubtedly playable.
I have learned so many times to never believe that; it's been over ten years for me.

But, either way, we're doing this. We're not giving up for Golden Sun - If Isaac makes it in, we're not giving up for more Camelot RPG's.
 

Skyblade12

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During the days of speculation and fanservice? No way he would just make a reference like that for just giggles or even an AT. People believe Sakurai is dropping hints left and right with barrels and ladders pointing to K. Rool and "red eyes" pointing to Simon.

If this is an intentional reference, Isaac is undoubtedly playable.
I think the red eyes thing was a coincidence. Sakurai’s eyes were actually red, and K. Rool’s were not.

A better comparison is the Dedede troll. Sakurai would never do that unless K. Rool were in. He trolls, but he’s not hurtful.
 

Thirdkoopa

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I think the red eyes thing was a coincidence. Sakurai’s eyes were actually red, and K. Rool’s were not.

A better comparison is the Dedede troll. Sakurai would never do that unless K. Rool were in. He trolls, but he’s not hurtful.
You could also argue that the first minute of the E3 direct was a King K. Rool tease.

...

I may go back and rewatch the entire direct to conspiracy hunt for characters.
 

pholtos

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Don't really have much to add besides ARGH I FINISHED THE STUPID DESERT.
 

jweb23

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I think the red eyes thing was a coincidence. Sakurai’s eyes were actually red, and K. Rool’s were not.

A better comparison is the Dedede troll. Sakurai would never do that unless K. Rool were in. He trolls, but he’s not hurtful.
I believe in coincidence too HOWEVER the fact that King K Rool always has one enlarged red eye plus the song from Castlevania featured on the website is called “Bloody Tears” naw that wasn’t a coincidence.
 

pholtos

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The second Desert in the game is so much better simply cause the characters aren't constantly talking about how hot it is every 5-10 steps.
 

Sabrewulf238

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I think the red eyes thing was a coincidence. Sakurai’s eyes were actually red, and K. Rool’s were not.
Sakurai isn't stupid though....and we also already know that he likes hinting at things. Sakurai would know K. Rool is famous for having that bloodshot eye.

If he noticed he had red eyes then he probably thought he could hint at K. Rool and then have some plausible deniability afterwards. The best kind of hint is one that has double meanings.

I'm making it sound like it was a big deal but it was probably just something like "oh my eyes were so red in that direct....oh hey do you know who else has a red eye?"
 
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ThoughtfulWanderer

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I have learned so many times to never believe that; it's been over ten years for me.

But, either way, we're doing this. We're not giving up for Golden Sun - If Isaac makes it in, we're not giving up for more Camelot RPG's.
I know it's technically possible that it doesn't mean Isaac is playable... but during this time and with this context, I cannot see it being for something less. I can't picture Sakurai going out of his way to meticulously create this reference and get the hopes of fans up for something that isn't as big of a deal like an AT. The ballot has been looming over for ages now with Sakurai recently confirming he referred to it for newcomers, we just got off the high of Simon and K. Rool in Smash, and launch for the fanservice Smash is just months away. I'm not the only one who would think this, seeing as how many people freaked out over the picture to begin with.

I absolutely get where you're coming from. It just doesn't make sense to mean so little if it actually is supposed to be a reference. I'm not convinced that it is just because I don't want to set myself up for disappointment, but if Ivan had lent me his Mind Read and I discovered that Sakurai had a big golden sun on his mind as he was setting up the picture/typing up the tweet... that would speak volumes.

I'll be the first person to push support for a new Golden Sun if Isaac is in. Maybe with a good ol' remake, we can make those desert sections a little more bearable. Wouldn't want to turn off new fans from playing all the way through, right? ;)
 

Sabrewulf238

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I don't think anyone here fully believes Isaac is playable.

It's more like things are looking really good, unnervingly so.....and there are absolutely a number of things running in Isaacs favour. I don't think it's bias to notice that.
 

Jakisthe

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Yeah - it's fun to dream and come up with movesets. Like this one, where Isaac is a bit of a bully character who does best on the ground:
  • B: Calls forth a hand, like his assist trophy but smaller (as high as Isaac). Hand moves relatively slowly, and knocks enemies back, but does no damage. Can only have one out at a time. Goes about half the length of FD. Blocks most, but not all, projectiles.
  • Side B: Kicks ground in front of him, sending a wave of earth out. The quake flows ahead of him in sections, bouncing enemies up; those in very close proximity to him, both in front and in back, are given the quake effect if touching the ground. Quake wave can hit aerial enemies as well, if they're fairly close to the ground. Using this in the air effectively fast falls Isaac a little in a roughly 15 degree direction down (pretty steep) before causing quake when he lands. Knocks enemies down at a similar angle if hitting them in the air; buries them if they hit the ground. Move lag is either frontloaded if used on the ground, or backloaded if used in the air.
  • Up B: Isaac lifts his sword over his head and (cosmetic) wind comes from below as 3 almost-Fox-sized rocks form [very] loosely around him; the whole thing rises up for a few seconds. Each rock can block a single attack, and the whole thing does damage on contact. At the end of the rise, which is fine if not amazing, they fall away from Isaac, arcing away in different directions briefly as projectiles before dissipating.
  • Down B: Does a jumping slash forward with his sword; at the peak of the jump, Isaac flashes gold and a split second later a translucent golden Isaac follows up with a second slash on the same trajectory. If either of them hit a shielding enemy, Isaac gains a Venus djinn icon over his name on his UI (max of 1 per use of the move), making his moves 5% stronger and Isaac himself 5% heavier. At 4 icons, the next down B summons Judgement - the summon appears about 3 character lengths in front of Isaac at the top of the screen, a thin laser comes straight down, and a second later Judgement fires a beam along that laser which pierces through the entire level, about half the width of the Bahamut beam. Following use, Isaac loses all of the buffs, and is in fact his moves are 20% weaker for the next 8 seconds.
Grounded, non-jab sword moves can tip - tipping causes a large (almost Isaac sized) ethereal sword to appear on the top of the screen and pause for a split second before quickly falling straight down to bury itself in the same spot as where the tipping happened. Only 1 can be on screen at a time.
 
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Tiymako

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like hell, most die hard fans hate this game.
Waifus and Warriors xD

Remember, guys: The Isaac in smash was not the character, but the friends we made along the way
I stay true to these words.

OBJECTION!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hx8WTHcie0

If it was trully a Monster Hunter reference, why Link, Marth and Shulk?

http://ca.ign.com/wikis/monster-hunter-world/Weapons

As you can see, Link can fill the Sword and Shield spot, but why Marth and Shulk? Why not a character who as an Hammer like Dedede, a bow like Pit, a GreatSword like Cloud or a BowGun (Samus)?

I'l tell you why, this is no Monster Hunter reference.

Beside in Monster Hunter you can play up to four player, why not add a fourth one?

I heard Sakurai doesn't talk a lot, I feel like every single of is tweet must have a meaning behind it, promote the game or tease.

While it's not definitive proof, it add to a lot.

Sakurai is 100% teasing Isaac for those reason.

First we have 3 characters in an arena, in GS, if you play against a friend, you can only use 3 characters instead of 4 since the GBA can't handle 8 adepts (apparently).

Second, why Link, Marth and Shulk in this order?
They are shown from oldest to newest, and we can replace them by your first 3 party members in Golden Sun.

Link = Isaac, both are silent protagonist.
Marth = Garet, Marth come from FIRE Emblem and Garet controls fire.
Shulk = Yvan, both can see into the FUTURE.

+Someone pointed out that out of these 3 characters, there is no Brawl rep, just like in the assist trophy list, Isaac Trophy is missing, Isaac could be that Brawl character.

Beside, this angle is rarelly used in RPG, Camelot is one of the only studio using it.

What a coincidence...

Also, I believe that Rathalos may be a reference to the Fusion Dragon, the final boss in Golden Sun, why?

Both the Fusion Dragon and the Rathalos use fire attack and both can poison.

Beside the fusion dragon comes from the fusion of two Mars adepts (mars adepts controls fire like Garet)

And in Monster Hunter, the Rathalos drops can be use to make Fire Weapon, while the Rathian (the female) is use to make poison weapons.

So Rathalos is more link to fire then poison just like the Fusion Dragon.

Beside it's not the first time that Sakurai has use Twitter to tease a character, he did it whit Palutena, Shulk, Bayonneta, and Simon/King K Roll (red eyes)

He even put a freaking red and yellow barell during E3 were he was getting record to tease King K Roll early, so it would not be the first time.

Finally Golden Sun Dark Dawn page was update twice in the past weeks, it was the first time in years. (It may very well be nothing thought).

It's a little too much in my opinion to be call farfetched.

So do not lose hope! The sun always rise in the sky!


Your "OBJECTION!" has seemed to "Cornered" the nay sayers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3R8tkvlAlk

Edit: Dang it, sorry for the Double Post!

My feels when you double post and forget about editing your first post.
 

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True Blue Warrior

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warelander

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 13, 2015
Messages
225
I am way too late with voicing it on Smashboards, but I support Isaac as well. Nintendo's handheld history is due for more love as is and the GBA Golden Sun games helped define the system for me and I have only grown to appreciate them even more over the years.
 
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