Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[NessAtc.]

Again, I feel like it's prudent to iterate that the only two characters that aren't on that exit poll are Dark Samus and Richter, who Sakurai literally said got in for popularity's sake.

I only keep saying this because so many people keep forgetting that popularity is clearly the huge drawing point.

 

[DogManStar]

Again, I feel like it's prudent to iterate that the only two characters that aren't on that exit poll are Dark Samus and Richter, who Sakurai literally said got in for popularity's sake.

I only keep saying this because so many people keep forgetting that popularity is clearly the huge drawing point.

I remember a lot of people mentioning Dark Samus during the ballot, though not as many as I think it would have gotten if it was not an AT.

Also, found this great post on Reddit

 

[StormC]

Again, I feel like it's prudent to iterate that the only two characters that aren't on that exit poll are Dark Samus and Richter, who Sakurai literally said got in for popularity's sake.

I only keep saying this because so many people keep forgetting that popularity is clearly the huge drawing point.

Dude, the last characters could literally be just Banjo, Isaac, Geno, and Bandana Dee and people would contort themselves into a pretzel to argue that fanservice isn’t the core theme of the game.

 

[SebasSancy]

How will you celebrate the day he gets confirmed? will you replay the games or do something different?

definitely. I've got my Wii U on my parents's house, so I will get it back and get my 3DS and play Golden Sun, Golden Sun the Lost Age and Golden Sun Dark Dawn in a roll until Smash Ultimate get release

PS: Btw, I got a strong feeling that if Isaac don't get reveal next, it will be the last

 

[Organization XIII]

PS: Btw, I got a strong feeling that if Isaac don't get reveal next, it will be the last

Why would he be last

 

[Pwnapplez]

Again, I feel like it's prudent to iterate that the only two characters that aren't on that exit poll are Dark Samus and Richter, who Sakurai literally said got in for popularity's sake.

I only keep saying this because so many people keep forgetting that popularity is clearly the huge drawing point.

Richter is way more popular in Japan then Simon.

The problem with exit polls is that it’s such a small group of votes compaired to the main ballot.

However I still think Isaac did well.
How many votes did the OG ballot get?
I would say 1/3 of them were memes or impossible characters

 

[SebasSancy]

Why would he be last

for the shock maybe? I mean, at this point Skull Kid, Geno, Isaac and Karate Joe are maybe the most speculated newcomers because of the hints. If the "hints" are real, we will get Skull Kid next, and if the "sun and moon hints" are a thing, we may get Isaac as well. But, if it's not the case, and they show more AT and Isaac is still missing, I think they gonna keep us waiting to the final direct.

 

[NessAtc.]

Richter is way more popular in Japan then Simon.

yeah that's why he's the echo, and not like Trevor or something

 

[Organization XIII]

Richter is way more popular in Japan then Simon.

The problem with exit polls is that it’s such a small group of votes compaired to the main ballot.

However I still think Isaac did well.
How many votes did the OG ballot get?
I would say 1/3 of them were memes or impossible characters

I think people are forgetting how polls work. A smaller sample size can be used to get an idea of how the population actually looks. This is literally how stats work because you can never get the data from the entire population and better yet when you have multiple samples say a bunch of exit polls it's even easier to say it reflects the true population. Instead of worrying about the polls conducted by fans being too small the bigger fear should be response bias and botting.

 

[TempestSurge]

for the shock maybe? I mean, at this point Skull Kid, Geno, Isaac and Karate Joe are maybe the most speculated newcomers because of the hints. If the "hints" are real, we will get Skull Kid next, and if the "sun and moon hints" are a thing, we may get Isaac as well. But, if it's not the case, and they show more AT and Isaac is still missing, I think they gonna keep us waiting to the final direct.

I feel like Geno would be a better shock type of reveal that could be saved for last. Geno still beats out Isaac in not appearing for what may be coming on two decades now. He's also third party owned by Square Enix who already has a rep so a bit more barriers to cross vs Isaac who's first party and the face of his franchise. I know most people in the speculative community seem to expect Geno more than Isaac but I still feel they'll have that, 'OMG!!!' type of reaction when it's actually happening.

 

[Pwnapplez]

I feel like Geno would be a better shock type of reveal that could be saved for last. Geno still beats out Isaac in not appearing for what may be coming on two decades now. He's also third party owned by Square Enix who already has a rep so a bit more barriers to cross vs Isaac who's first party and the face of his franchise. I know most people in the speculative community seem to expect Geno more than Isaac but I still feel they'll have that, 'OMG!!!' type of reaction when it's actually happening.

Remember, Shulk was the last to be shown for Smash 4. So the best for last argument could fall through for smash ultimate.

However! With Smash ultimate going off of hype I feel like we will get a best for last type of reviel.

I say Geno is the best bet for final hype.

Isaac is good for like starting a direct or middle of a direct.

 

[tveye]

If Master Chief got onto the base before Banjo, i'm gonna lol.

Seriously, Halo hasn't even gotten onto the PC yet.

What? Yes it has. That was the only way I played Halo as a teen since I didn’t own an Xbox.
But yeah, no way is there gonna be any Halo stuff.

 

[Organization XIII]

I mean Sakurai doesn't do a "final hype" reveal. He doesn't really hold back so I really don't see him doing it here. I mean the first reveal was Inklings sure but after that, it was all vets returning, followed by Ridley and K Rool. I doubt he's holding back this time.

 

[DogManStar]

I totally expect Geno, but the odds are very stacked against him. Here's a character who's even more irrelevant than Isaac, Andy, or any character like that, whose only saving grace in regards to relevancy is being a Mario character. He's not even truly first party. If this game wasn't being built on the ballot, I don't think Geno would be in. I just have a good feeling about him this time.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Remember, Shulk was the last to be shown for Smash 4. So the best for last argument could fall through for smash ultimate.

However! With Smash ultimate going off of hype I feel like we will get a best for last type of reviel.

I say Geno is the best bet for final hype.

Isaac is good for like starting a direct or middle of a direct.

Shulk was the last to get a trailer before release sure, but it's not true that he was the last character to get officially revealed. That was Duck Hunt.

I think that's important to note considering Sakurai intends to reveal every character for this game before release.

Also I can't remember us ever getting a newcomer trailer in the middle of a direct, it's always at the start or end isn't it?

 

[tveye]

One thing that annoys me is all the fake leaks saying Isaac is in but don’t include Felix as an echo. I feel like it’s pretty much a given at this point. How about you guys?

 

[Organization XIII]

It would be nice but it's totally possible Isaac will be solo

 

[Sabrewulf238]

inb4 the last character reveal is Chibi Robo.

That would probably fit with how Smash 4 revealed characters.

One thing that annoys me is all the fake leaks saying Isaac is in but don’t include Felix as an echo. I feel like it’s pretty much a given at this point. How about you guys?

I don't think it's a certainty at all. Echoes still have to compete with each other for a place and Sakurai might not consider Felix noteworthy enough to prioritize him over a different character. (who may have performed better on the ballot)

The majority of Golden Sun fans votes were heading to Isaac not Felix.

 

[TempestSurge]

Remember, Shulk was the last to be shown for Smash 4. So the best for last argument could fall through for smash ultimate.

However! With Smash ultimate going off of hype I feel like we will get a best for last type of reviel.

I say Geno is the best bet for final hype.

Isaac is good for like starting a direct or middle of a direct.

Yeah, Smash Ultimate is a different ball game. It's going off of fan requests and thus Sakurai can easily save the shocking reveal for the last smash centered direct to really drum in the hype before release.

 

[Pwnapplez]

Shulk was the last to get a trailer before release sure, but it's not true that he was the last character to get officially revealed. That was Duck Hunt.

I think that's important to note considering Sakurai intends to reveal every character for this game before release.

Also I can't remember us ever getting a newcomer trailer in the middle of a direct, it's always at the start or end isn't it?

Yep, but it would be pretty cool to see.
Maybe also to show that Golden Sun is being remade )))
Only one can hope.

One thing that annoys me is all the fake leaks saying Isaac is in but don’t include Felix as an echo. I feel like it’s pretty much a given at this point. How about you guys?

I dont think we will get Felix

I think the Simon/Richter type of reviel was a one time thing.

Yes, both Isaac and Felix both share the same move poll and really fit the whole Simon/Richter feel, but I think GS will only get one rep

Yeah, Smash Ultimate is a different ball game. It's going off of fan requests and thus Sakurai can easily save the shocking reveal for the last smash centered direct to really drum in the hype before release.

Yep, I feel like Geno is going to be the last character.

I don’t even see Skull Kid being a fighter, I don’t trust Loz (even if he’s trying to act like he knows that Isaac could be in the game)

I honestly think all that is left is
Pokémon
Geno
And a few Echoes.

I am praying for Isaac. However, Sakurai must of heard our cries for him

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I feel like people expecting some explosive final character reveal are going to be let down. It may very well be a surprising character, but it isn't necessarily going to be one that sends shock waves across the gaming community.

I mean Duck Hunt is our point of reference here for a final (official) reveal. (and Shulk for a final reveal before release)

 

[DogManStar]

I don't think we're only getting two more unique newcomers. I'm not even sure that we're going to get a Pokemon anyways. If I had to make bets on it though, I'd say a Pokemon, Geno, and Banjo are going to be the last unique characters. Skull Kid I think just got lucky with the Moon being an AT, I'm still not sold on him being playable.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

What? Yes it has. That was the only way I played Halo as a teen since I didn’t own an Xbox.
But yeah, no way is there gonna be any Halo stuff.

Halo 1 and Halo 2 are only one's playable. And even people debate the quality of those ports.

So the series as a whole hasn't gotten to PC as of yet. (Though, infinite is coming PC. i hope.)

 

[TempestSurge]

I feel like people expecting some explosive final character reveal are going to be let down. It may very well be a surprising character, but it isn't necessarily going to be one that sends shock waves across the gaming community.

I mean Duck Hunt is our point of reference here for a final (official) reveal. (and Shulk for a final reveal before release)

Technically with this roster being more heavily focused on the ballot fan votes, one way or another the reveals will make the fan base explode in hype. Even if the last reveal doesn't end on Geno or Banjo or something. A part of me just doesn't want it to be Isaac, it's only been about two weeks-ish since the last direct and we've been on pins and needles, imagine waiting another three months after most characters have been revealed to see if Isaac is the one who nabbed that last spot. Yeah let's get that confirmation early lol.

 

[ferioku]

How will you celebrate the day he gets confirmed? will you replay the games or do something different?

Ohhh I'm replaying Golden Sun for sure and thrn I'll finally complete lost ages

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Technically with this roster being more heavily focused on the ballot fan votes, one way or another the reveals will make the fan base explode in hype. Even if the last reveal doesn't end on Geno or Banjo or something. A part of me just doesn't want it to be Isaac, it's only been about two weeks-ish since the last direct and we've been on pins and needles, imagine waiting another three months after most characters have been revealed to see if Isaac is the one who nabbed that last spot. Yeah let's get that confirmation early lol.

I think it'll depend on how many characters we have left but I could see the final character to be revealed being a character that performed well in the ballot but not insanely well.

Like Chibi Robo or a Custom Robo character. (they did appear on the exit poll) Maybe Dillon if he did better on the ballot than expected?

I mean I think it's a lot more likely that they'll just be assist trophies, but if one of them managed to make the cut I could see them being the last character announced just because they're not as high profile as the characters revealed before them.

Duck Hunt wasn't an explosive character so I don't see why the last character revealed for Ultimate needs to be either.

and yes if he's in I hope Isaac can get confirmed sooner rather than later.

 

[Jakisthe]

If he was added, how would you want to see them handle djinn/summoning? Isaac is tricky to make a moveset for since he has *so* many options, but that's a whole layer entirely.

 

[DogManStar]

If he was added, how would you want to see them handle djinn/summoning? Isaac is tricky to make a moveset for since he has *so* many options, but that's a whole layer entirely.

My personal idea was to have djinn as a special move (neutral maybe?) and the more djinn you use, the stronger your summon is. The summon special could be his down special, maybe. It would work like it does in Golden Sun, preferably. (For example, if you've only used one of your djinn, you can only summon the normal Venus summon.) The only problems with this idea imo are what the special would do if you haven't used any djinn yet, and that the Venus summon for 4 djinn is probably too powerful for a normal move.

 

[pholtos]

Hmm... had a thought for the future. Do I even bother with the optional boss? I find fighting it sorta a pain given the djinn destruction power they always have. (Why is that a thing, you're basically saying "Hey! Summon rush me!")

 

[Silo777]

If he was added, how would you want to see them handle djinn/summoning? Isaac is tricky to make a moveset for since he has *so* many options, but that's a whole layer entirely.

The fact that Isaac's main "problem" is that he has too much moveset potential speaks volumes about why he should be in smash.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

I think it'll depend on how many characters we have left but I could see the final character to be revealed being a character that performed well in the ballot but not insanely well.

Like Chibi Robo or a Custom Robo character. (they did appear on the exit poll) Maybe Dillon if he did better on the ballot than expected?

I mean I think it's a lot more likely that they'll just be assist trophies, but if one of them managed to make the cut I could see them being the last character announced just because they're not as high profile as the characters revealed before them.

Duck Hunt wasn't an explosive character so I don't see why the last character revealed for Ultimate needs to be either.

and yes if he's in I hope Isaac can get confirmed sooner rather than later.

Maaaaaan, i'm excited for the possible non-existent possibilities. :.)

 

[Eagle]

If he was added, how would you want to see them handle djinn/summoning? Isaac is tricky to make a moveset for since he has *so* many options, but that's a whole layer entirely.

I think a summon for a final smash would be easiest and the most appropriate. Djinn I'm not so sure, and it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't incorporate djinn into Isaac's moveset for simplicity.

If I were to incorporate Djinn without being too complicated, I would give Isaac additional effects to smash attacks that are sufficiently charged with some extra animations of Djinn hovering around Isaac during the attacks.

For example;
Side Smash: Isaac slashes with his sword. If he charges long enough, Flint appears and causes bonus damage.
Down Smash: Isaac summons two rocks on both sides (just like Smash Flash 2). If he charges long enough Granite appears and grants Isaac bonus resistance.
Up Smash: Isaac summons a large thorny vine reaching reasonably high above him. If Isaac charges long enough, the Djinn Ground pulls the opponent down and into the ground, buried.

Balancing-wise I'd make it so that Isaac can't get any boosted smash attack effects for a short period of time. I'm sure we'd all love to see Isaac use different summons depending on how many Djinn he has on standby but I think we can all agree that's probably unlikely to happen which is fine.

 

[isaac3000]

I think a summon for a final smash would be easiest and the most appropriate. Djinn I'm not so sure, and it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't incorporate djinn into Isaac's moveset for simplicity.

If I were to incorporate Djinn without being too complicated, I would give Isaac additional effects to smash attacks that are sufficiently charged with some extra animations of Djinn hovering around Isaac during the attacks.

For example;
Side Smash: Isaac slashes with his sword. If he charges long enough, Flint appears and causes bonus damage.
Down Smash: Isaac summons two rocks on both sides (just like Smash Flash 2). If he charges long enough Granite appears and grants Isaac bonus resistance.
Up Smash: Isaac summons a large thorny vine reaching reasonably high above him. If Isaac charges long enough, the Djinn Ground pulls the opponent down and into the ground, buried.

Balancing-wise I'd make it so that Isaac can't get any boosted smash attack effects for a short period of time. I'm sure we'd all love to see Isaac use different summons depending on how many Djinn he has on standby but I think we can all agree that's probably unlikely to happen which is fine.

I like this idea of using the Djinn that way! So many possibilities!

 

[GoodGrief741]

One thing that annoys me is all the fake leaks saying Isaac is in but don’t include Felix as an echo. I feel like it’s pretty much a given at this point. How about you guys?

I don’t think newcomers getting Echoes will be as common a thing as people expect. Richter is very popular in Japan, Simon’s moveset already was (and was always going to) borrow moves from him, hence it made sense to include him as an Echo to placate Japanese audiences.

Other than maybe Octolings, who are incredibly popular, I don’t see other newcomers getting Echoes.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

I don’t think newcomers getting Echoes will be as common a thing as people expect. Richter is very popular in Japan, Simon’s moveset already was (and was always going to) borrow moves from him, hence it made sense to include him as an Echo to placate Japanese audiences.

Other than maybe Octolings, who are incredibly popular, I don’t see other newcomers getting Echoes.

I do wish that both Felix and Isaac are playable, but i'm not sure.

They are the two main protagonists of the series. Unlike the belmonts where there are a lot to choose from, Felix and Isaac are the most recognizable and the only two *most* Favorited of the entire series.

There are people like Matthew, but it's not like he's much different from his father.

 

[Metocles]

I don’t think newcomers getting Echoes will be as common a thing as people expect. Richter is very popular in Japan, Simon’s moveset already was (and was always going to) borrow moves from him, hence it made sense to include him as an Echo to placate Japanese audiences.

Other than maybe Octolings, who are incredibly popular, I don’t see other newcomers getting Echoes.

I'm not even so sure that Octolings will be Echoes in the base game. Maybe as a DLC consideration? It doesn't feel as much of a shoo-in as a lot of people out there believe. This is not even going into the technicalities of having another set of characters that act like inklings with more paint colors which can look very messy as it is with 8 primary colors. Add more 8 more colors? How do you even keep track of it? It just seems like a very easy thing to reveal sooner rather than right now so late into the game cycle. If you were going to show Octolings, why not at E3? Or in this last direct when we see some Inkling gameplay?

 

[SebasSancy]

I saw this Diorama on Twitter and Gosh, people can't say that the Rathalos picture doesn't look a like. It's even the same background with almost the same name (colesseum/colosseum)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Octolings were wanted well before the Octo Expansion. They're vastly popular. The only reason they wouldn't be easy Echoes in base game is if he didn't have the assets ready at that time. That or he believes they're better as costumes(not unlike Alph). There's no reason to wait for DLC at all.

Isaac and Felix being Echoes are possible, but yeah, people are forgetting why Richter became one. However, one thing to note is that him being an Echo could be more complicated than that. It's quite possible Simon was meant to have actual proper alt costumes like the Koopalings, but the licensing was not feasible, so only Richter was available. So that could be part of why he was easy to make an Echo, since he didn't have any other Castlevania character to represent. Besides that, Richter is fully in the trailer. He must've been made fairly early.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

I'm not even so sure that Octolings will be Echoes in the base game. Maybe as a DLC consideration? It doesn't feel as much of a shoo-in as a lot of people out there believe. This is not even going into the technicalities of having another set of characters that act like inklings with more paint colors which can look very messy as it is with 8 primary colors. Add more 8 more colors? How do you even keep track of it? It just seems like a very easy thing to reveal sooner rather than right now so late into the game cycle. If you were going to show Octolings, why not at E3? Or in this last direct when we see some Inkling gameplay?

The common reason why people think octolings will be in smash is that octolings are easy to echo.


But....They're even more recent than characters like Rex and Pyra. (at least in terms of them being fully playable, and brought in the public eye.)

Octo expansion came out this year. The most recent stuff in ultimate we have gotten is Mario Odyssey and BOTW.

Do people REALLY expect this to happen in the base game?

Octolings were wanted well before the Octo Expansion. They're vastly popular. The only reason they wouldn't be easy Echoes in base game is if he didn't have the assets ready at that time. That or he believes they're better as costumes(not unlike Alph). There's no reason to wait for DLC at all.

Isaac and Felix being Echoes are possible, but yeah, people are forgetting why Richter became one. However, one thing to note is that him being an Echo could be more complicated than that. It's quite possible Simon was meant to have actual proper alt costumes like the Koopalings, but the licensing was not feasible, so only Richter was available. So that could be part of why he was easy to make an Echo, since he didn't have any other Castlevania character to represent. Besides that, Richter is fully in the trailer. He must've been made fairly early.

At the time of the ballot, i doubt any smash or splatoon fan would want the octolings before the inklings.


The only reason people want the octolings now is because the inklings are represented.

 

[isaac3000]

Isaac and Felix being Echoes are possible, but yeah, people are forgetting why Richter became one.

Why did Richter become an echoe?