Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

Isaac: Venus Adept · Jun 19, 2018

I actually made an Isaac moveset with SourceGaming two years ago which you can find here https://sourcegaming.info/2016/08/01/dream-smashers-isaac/
I focused more on the Venus moves with the other psynergy types here and there. My main gimmick was that he had a turn-based RPG themed fighting style where his basic jab was a jump attack followed by the Odyssey spell as a jab. He would utilise a variety of spells which prioritises spacing

True Blue Warrior · Jun 19, 2018

Updated support list.

_Sheik
1/128
9Blades
☆Jisatsu☆
*Verrix*
Accursed
Adeptmune
Agk0001
AgatioGanon
Aguki90
airConditioner
aldelaro5
alguidrag
Altais
Amberloo
AncientArk
andimidna
Androobie
Apollyon
Aqua Rock X
AquaDork1
AquaSol
Arcadenik
Arteen
Asian_Charizard
Astraltar
Aureola
Aurora Jenny
AustarusIV
AwesomeCauliflower68
Awesomedude444
Backgammon
Balgorxz
BandannaWaddleDee
Bane84
bassem6
Bassoonist
Billybae10k
Bingoshi
Bkupa666
Blackwolf666
Blaziken
BluePikmin11
BoltDragon
BoN~
Bowser-Daimao
BridgesWithTurtles
Browny
Buddy002
Bunny8093
BUnit
Burruni
Calane
CactusBlah
candyissweet
Capita
Cap'nChreest
Captain Toad
CardStealer1
Chapter Serf
CheckmateChuck
CheeseBroJoe
Cheezey Bites
Chromfirmed
ChronoPenguin
ClinkStryphart
CliffJumper
cocy965
Coaltergeist
Crap-Zapper
CrossDispatcher
cybersai
Dalek_Kolt
Dendros
Desert Croc
Destroyer713
Dezeray112
Dhragen
Diddy Kong
Dimensionsword64
DivinexRose
DJ3DS
DJBor
D-Man9293
DogManStar
DoodleDuck97
Doncalot
DraginHikari
Drakonis
Dromader
DukeNapoleon
DustyPumpkin
e105beta
Eagle
EclipseSmash
EddyBearr
ED Cantu
Edlocke
egaddmario
ElPanandero
El Syd
EndlessChrom
EndlessRain
EnhaloTricks
ETFruitNinja
ethanrodgers223
Ezequileste
Falgor
Falkoopa
False Sense
FamiconDisk
Felix_the_Slayer
fenyx4
ferioku
Fire Rider
Fire_Voyager
FirstBlade
Flareon
Flintike
fogbadge.
foolssigma
FreddyOnDrugs
Friesnchip
GalacticPetey
Geno Boost
Ghirahilda
GladiusVortex
GM_3826
GoodGrief741
Gotann
GraveEclipse567
heylodom
hwrdjacob
iam8bit
Icana
iDazedX_x
Inawordyes
IntelliHeath1
Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur
isaac3000
Isaac: Venus Adept
IvanQuote
JaidynReiman
Jak_spoon
Jamurai
JDogindy
JohnnySparkxs
Just a random scrub
jweb22
KCCHIEFS27
KeniththeGatherer
KeybladeSmasher
Kikaru
Kind Dedede
KingCloud
KingShadow
KiraYoshikage
KirbyDragon
Kirbyfan391
Kisae
KMDP
Kokirikory
Koori
Kumatora
Kycse
Lady Palutena
Lampy
LaniusShrike
LasermasterA
Leafeon523
LeeYawshee
legendofrob1
LemmyKoopa
lightdasher
LightheartedBum
Lightosia
Linq
littl-myth
Liverpool19
Lone (Thirteenth)
Lonodel
Lord-Zero
Lucanic
Lucimar
Ludjinnado
lunarum
Lukingordex
Lurxy
M23-X0
MacSmitty
MagiusNecros
MAGMIS
MainJPW
Malcolm Belmont
MaskO'Gears
Master Rapier
MasterMushroom
Mav485
Mega Bidoof
Mendelsin
MetalMario128
Metocles
Minato Arisato
Mikegamer0608
Mishudo
Monkokaio
MonopolyRubix
MorbidAltruism
Moydow
MrMacBeth
MrToxicVoltage
Mythzotick
mynameisv
MysticKnives
N3ON
Nauzgo
Neo Zero
Niala
Nimbostratus
Ninjakid41592
Nintendokusou
NitrusVirus
NonSpecificGuy
NoR4U
Octillus
Oddyesy
Oniric Spriter
Oracle_Summon
Organization XIII
otarolgam
Oz37
Pacack
Papagenos
ParanoidDrone
Pcubed007
Pennate
Phaazoid
Pizza Robo
Plain Yogurt
Playcube
PlayfulMushroom
POKEMANSPIKA
Powerman293
PSIguy89
PrinceGal3n
PWN3
R.O.B.
Radical Beam
Radori
Raetah
Raziek
Red Ryu
RegiGygas117
Retro gamer
RhymeswithEmpty
Roger Smith
RosaPeach
Royvolution Ream
Ryan
Ryuutakeshi
Sabrewulf238
Sagittarius
sandfall
SanicJan
Scatmansworld25
Scoliosis Jones
Seb9k+
Secret Sexytime
Seleir
Seoxys
sheik93
Shin F.
Shinhed-echi
Shog
Sidboylol
SirCamp
skaaaa
Skeleton o' Fun
Skyblade12
Skyfox2000
sman3975
Smash_Handle69
SmashBro99
smashkirby
SmashShadow
smashtriforce77
smileMasky
SmilingMad
SMX
Solfiner
someonetookjacob
SonicLink125
SonicSmasher
SorrowOfAcheron
SoulofKhaos
Spatman
Spazzy_D
Speedwagon
Spootondorf
Sqid
SSBFan
Staarih
StaffofSmashing
Strider_Bond00J
StrikeBlade
SuperBrawler
Superfiremario
Supersmash77
Superyoshiom
Swampasaur
Sykin
TCT~Phantom
TeenGirlSquad
TehEpicRyuga
ThatShadowLink
The Curious Volnutt
The One Who Wrote This
Thekewlusername
T-Hell
TheRealHeroOfWinds
TheSeanMan
TheSpaceKing
The Stoopid Unikorn
TheTactician
thethirdkoopa
ThirdDay
ThoughtfulWanderer
ThunderOverload
TimeSmash
Tiyomako
ToothiestAura
True Blue Warrior
Turmalinium
UltimateWario
Ultinarok
Vann Accessible
Vegito2727
Venus of the Desert Bloom
Vintage Creep
Violenceman
walph
Warheart_666
Wigglytuff ★
Wintropy
WhiteEaglePL
Xelion
Xenigma
XeVioN
Xiivi
xLemmy_KoopaX
XTremeGamer1234
XxLtxX
YellowLord
YoshiandToad
Young Horsetail
Your Hero
zagman505
zaiman12345
Zandro
ZanZero
ZarroTsu
ZeldaMaster
ZestyÑ
Zulyar
Zuppo

Sabrewulf238 · Jun 19, 2018

I was just thinking about the state of the Golden Sun franchise. I feel like if Camelot are worried about creating another game in the franchise, they should perhaps work on a HD release based on the first two games. Sort of like a reimagining of the story. That way they're banking more on nostalgia and less on coming up with an entirely new story.

Something like "Golden Sun Rebirth".

I feel like a reboot of some sort would probably be healthier for the franchise overall, rather than just releasing "Golden Sun 4". (which could end up being another Dark Dawn)

I'd be so down for retelling of Golden Sun and Golden Sun: The Lost Age in a 3D art style similar to the tales games.

Billybae10K · Jun 19, 2018

While I know we have a pirate ship stage already, I'd be down for a Karagol Sea stage where at random intervals monsters from that mission appear to fight, with the Kraken at the end.

I also agree with the remake/reboot. Golden Sun is at a point where telling the story of the two games that made the franchise so popular to a new generation wouldn't be much of an issue and would only benefit in giving the franchise some much needed love.

ThoughtfulWanderer · Jun 19, 2018

Sabrewulf238 said:
I was just thinking about the state of the Golden Sun franchise. I feel like if Camelot are worried about creating another game in the franchise, they should perhaps work on a HD release based on the first two games. Sort of like a reimagining of the story. That way they're banking more on nostalgia and less on coming up with an entirely new story.

Something like "Golden Sun Rebirth".

I feel like a reboot of some sort would probably be healthier for the franchise overall, rather than just releasing "Golden Sun 4". (which could end up being another Dark Dawn)

I'd be so down for retelling of Golden Sun and Golden Sun: The Lost Age in a 3D art style similar to the tales games.

Yeah, it's been a while since not only those first two were released, but also a GS game in general. Remaking the first two allows for newcomers to get interested with the titles that made the series good, an opportunity to retcon Dark Dawn, and an easier time developing since Camelot is wary about diving back in to the series. They wouldn't have to do as much and at a much smaller risk since they already have those games as a reference.

The characters also get a chance to have more distinct personalities too with better writing and 3D animations if not also full voice acting.

Ultinarok · Jun 19, 2018

You know, has anyone ever considered that somehow Sakurai has a poor relationship with Camelot for some unknown reason? It dawned on me that both Waluigi and Isaac, two fan favorites, are essentially products of Camelot, and both have been shafted by Sora in the last two games. Is it perhaps possible that some animosity exists between the two that keeps their characters out of the spotlight in Smash?

Of course this is just conjecture, because Sakurai retrieved Snake from the abyss despite Snakes primary reason for his original inclusion, Kojima, being absent, so I dont think a petty feud would have an impact on a character's chances. Still, its an interesting observation.

Or perhaps Waluigi was excluded because Isaac got in and Sakurai couldn't procure the real estate for both (although Nintendo holds right over both I'm sure), so perhaps Waluigis sacrifice was not in vain? Just theory crafting over here....would kind of rather have Isaac anyway if I'm being honest. Golden Sun was a fun game.

The Japanese are very serious and no nonsense about intellectual property, so its possible that Waluigi and Isaac likeliness' are still the property of their original creators from Camelot, and that Sakurai has to appeal to them for rights to the characters. Could be false of course, but yeah, I could see a conflict with that person being a hindrance to the characters inclusion after all this time.

ThoughtfulWanderer · Jun 19, 2018

Ultinarok said:
Or perhaps Waluigi was excluded because Isaac got in and Sakurai couldn't procure the real estate for both (although Nintendo holds right over both I'm sure), so perhaps Waluigis sacrifice was not in vain?

The Japanese are very serious and no nonsense about intellectual property, so its possible that Waluigi and Isaac likeliness' are still the property of their original creators from Camelot, and that Sakurai has to appeal to them for rights to the characters. Could be false of course, but yeah, I could see a conflict with that person being a hindrance to the characters inclusion after all this time.

No real estate necessary. Camelot partners with Nintendo exclusively and on their systems exclusively, so while they're not fully "owned" by Nintendo just like Game Freak and they still have to be spoken to before adding properties of theirs, there don't need to be royalties as far as I know. As for bad blood keeping them out, I doubt it. Both have had and continue to have legitimate shortcomings to their resumes that could justify not adding them.

Gallowglass · Jun 19, 2018

After playing the first Golden Sun I can see so, so, so many moveset combinations. With special moves, djinn, psynergy, and summons the combinations are endless.

I think it would be cool if you could select multiple djinn with a certain special (select them like Shulk's Monado abilities). The number of Djinn's you use would change his Final Smash (which would be a summon). It would be pretty complicated but rather unique character.

Also I would like a costume change that changes from sword, axes, and maces. Probably not going to happen but it would make him stand out more.

Skyblade12 · Jun 19, 2018

Master Rapier said:
After playing the first Golden Sun I can see so, so, so many moveset combinations. With special moves, djinn, psynergy, and summons the combinations are endless.

I think it would be cool if you could select multiple djinn with a certain special (select them like Shulk's Monado abilities). The number of Djinn's you use would change his Final Smash (which would be a summon). It would be pretty complicated but rather unique character.

Also I would like a costume change that changes from sword, axes, and maces. Probably not going to happen but it would make him stand out more.

Yeah, unfortunately there is way too much to fully represent the game with one character.

That’s why we need three characters (Isaac, Felix, and Jenna) and an Assist Trophy (Alex). C’mon, Sakurai, do the series justice.

Bassoonist · Jun 19, 2018

Ultinarok said:
You know, has anyone ever considered that somehow Sakurai has a poor relationship with Camelot for some unknown reason? It dawned on me that both Waluigi and Isaac, two fan favorites, are essentially products of Camelot, and both have been shafted by Sora in the last two games. Is it perhaps possible that some animosity exists between the two that keeps their characters out of the spotlight in Smash?

Of course this is just conjecture, because Sakurai retrieved Snake from the abyss despite Snakes primary reason for his original inclusion, Kojima, being absent, so I dont think a petty feud would have an impact on a character's chances. Still, its an interesting observation.

Or perhaps Waluigi was excluded because Isaac got in and Sakurai couldn't procure the real estate for both (although Nintendo holds right over both I'm sure), so perhaps Waluigis sacrifice was not in vain? Just theory crafting over here....would kind of rather have Isaac anyway if I'm being honest. Golden Sunpll was a fun game.

The Japanese are very serious and no nonsense about intellectual property, so its possible that Waluigi and Isaac likeliness' are still the property of their original creators from Camelot, and that Sakurai has to appeal to them for rights to the characters. Could be false of course, but yeah, I could see a conflict with that person being a hindrance to the characters inclusion after all this time.

As ThoughtfulWanderer said, there shouldn't be any problems with licensing here. I think the problem with Waluigi in particular is that he has always been a spin-off character and Nintendo has never done anything else with him. Of course, Daisy was also in a similar predicament, but she actually originated in a Mario platformer (Super Mario Land) and I think pretty much the only reason she is here is because she is the perfect fit for an alternate costume of Peach. Waluigi has no such character that he could easily be an alternate costume of. Luigi is a completely different build, for example.

I like Waluigi and all, but I was not in the least bit surprised when he didn't make it as a playable character here.

Diddy Kong · Jun 19, 2018

Master Rapier said:
After playing the first Golden Sun I can see so, so, so many moveset combinations. With special moves, djinn, psynergy, and summons the combinations are endless.

I think it would be cool if you could select multiple djinn with a certain special (select them like Shulk's Monado abilities). The number of Djinn's you use would change his Final Smash (which would be a summon). It would be pretty complicated but rather unique character.

Also I would like a costume change that changes from sword, axes, and maces. Probably not going to happen but it would make him stand out more.

This is also a playstyle that could really offer a whole lot honestly! Yet, such a system with switching Djinni wouldn't make much sense if the only marginal difference would just be the Final Smash, which is still an optional item and not part of a standardised match. I think it would be a better, and more ambitious idea to change up the Special attacks according to the elements.

Fire would be great for building up damage with attacks as Planet Driver, Fire Ball / Super Nova, Eruption and the like.
Earth would be great for grounded battles and potentially trapping enemies with Psynergy as Vine, Ragnarok / Oddysey, Gaia and Spires.
Water would allow for defensive mechanics as Frost, Douse, Ice Horn / Ice Missile and Ply?
Wind would allow for windbox mechanics and a good recovery, Whirlwind / Gale / Tempest, Plasma, Death Plunge and Hover?

Just throwing out ideas.

Isaac could easily be used to represent Golden Sun as a whole. Yet I do think the Earth Psynergy alone would offer enough differences from other characters, and a very unique mechanic to warrant Isaac's inclusion.

Sabrewulf238 · Jun 19, 2018

I just saw this on instagram, only posted about an hour ago.

http://instagr.am/p/BkNnosonnGw/

Falgor · Jun 19, 2018

Hi everyone, I'm back to support our Golden boy! It's been a while since the end of Smash 4 speculation.

Do we have a definite # to show our support on Twitter or other similar places? I've seen people using some but each time they're different.
#IsaacForSmash ? #Isaac4SmashUltimate ?
That may sound like an absurd question but it would probably be better to focus on only one of them so we don't squander our efforts. :drohmy:

Deleted member · Jun 19, 2018

Comic of the day!

Also did you know a track from Golden Sun is extremely similar to a Tales of Track?

ThoughtfulWanderer · Jun 19, 2018

Falgor said:
Hi everyone, I'm back to support our Golden boy! It's been a while since the end of Smash 4 speculation.

Do we have a definite # to show our support on Twitter or other similar places? I've seen people using some but each time they're different.
#IsaacForSmash ? #Isaac4SmashUltimate ?
That may sound like an absurd question but it would probably be better to focus on only one of them so we don't squander our efforts.

#IsaacForSmash sounds best, but we might as well build off the one that has the most uses recently.

isaac3000 · Jun 19, 2018

Now I want all of these stages!!

Imagine how fun these would be!

Falgor · Jun 19, 2018

ThoughtfulWanderer said:
#IsaacForSmash sounds best, but we might as well build off the one that has the most uses recently.

#Isaac4Smash was the one we used for Smash 4, some people still use it. We should probably use it with #SmashBrosUltimate, otherwise it won't touch as many Smash enthusiasts.

Skyblade12 · Jun 20, 2018

I am so nervous. I mean, Ridley and the veterans are both for fan requests. So, other fan requests may have a chance. But did Isaac make it? How long do we need to wait to learn?

ThoughtfulWanderer · Jun 20, 2018

Skyblade12 said:
I am so nervous. I mean, Ridley and the veterans are both for fan requests. So, other fan requests may have a chance. But did Isaac make it? How long do we need to wait to learn?

I really hope we can get a monthly newcomer reveal. Not only would it likely mean more characters and more chances for Isaac, but there's no descent into insanity from information withdrawal!

Takasmash · Jun 20, 2018

Isaac for smash ultimate I want Golden Sun music remix please dont reveal Isaac as assist trophy c mon Sakurai you did us dirty with Takamaru Lyn Waluigi and Bomberman. I do want to see Isaac I want to see how will update him as character like Little Mac treatment, I support Isaac also.

DogManStar · Jun 20, 2018

Back again. I'll be sure to tweet in support of Isaac whenever I can with those hashtags (you might have seen me around, on almost all sites except here I go by BlueshoeDCVII)

Takasmash said:
Isaac for smash ultimate I want Golden Sun music remix please dont reveal Isaac as assist trophy c mon Sakurai you did us dirty with Takamaru Lyn Waluigi and Bomberman. I do want to see Isaac I want to see how will update him as character like Little Mac treatment, I support Isaac also.

I think I would accept Isaac being an AT again, as sad as it would be. Golden Sun has been treated so absymally as of late that I think I'm at the point where I would accept any attention from Nintendo at all. But wow, at this rate, it almost feels like every wanted AT is going to stay as one, with all the disconfirmations we had. Not fun...

osby · Jun 20, 2018

If Isaac ever gets in:
"Isaac Moves the Crowd!"
(Move from Thousand Foot Krutch plays)

Capybara Gaming · Jun 20, 2018

osby said:
If Isaac ever gets in:
"Isaac Moves the Crowd!"
(Move from Thousand Foot Krutch plays)

Thousand Foot Krutch

You mean the Christian Heavy Metal Band? :dk:

True Blue Warrior · Jun 20, 2018

Updated support list.

_Sheik
1/128
9Blades
☆Jisatsu☆
*Verrix*
Accursed
Adeptmune
Agk0001
AgatioGanon
Aguki90
airConditioner
aldelaro5
alguidrag
Altais
Amberloo
AncientArk
andimidna
Androobie
Apollyon
Aqua Rock X
AquaDork1
AquaSol
Arcadenik
Arteen
Asian_Charizard
Astraltar
Aureola
Aurora Jenny
AustarusIV
AwesomeCauliflower68
Awesomedude444
Backgammon
Balgorxz
BandannaWaddleDee
Bane84
bassem6
Bassoonist
Billybae10k
Bingoshi
Bkupa666
Blackwolf666
Blaziken
BluePikmin11
BoltDragon
BoN~
Bowser-Daimao
BridgesWithTurtles
Browny
Buddy002
Bunny8093
BUnit
Burruni
Calane
CactusBlah
candyissweet
Capita
Cap'nChreest
Captain Toad
CardStealer1
Chapter Serf
CheckmateChuck
CheeseBroJoe
Cheezey Bites
Chromfirmed
ChronoPenguin
ClinkStryphart
CliffJumper
cocy965
Coaltergeist
Crap-Zapper
CrossDispatcher
cybersai
Dalek_Kolt
Dendros
Desert Croc
Destroyer713
Dezeray112
Dhragen
Diddy Kong
Dimensionsword64
DivinexRose
DJ3DS
DJBor
D-Man9293
DogManStar
DoodleDuck97
Doncalot
DraginHikari
Drakonis
Dromader
DukeNapoleon
DustyPumpkin
e105beta
Eagle
EclipseSmash
EddyBearr
ED Cantu
Edlocke
egaddmario
ElPanandero
El Syd
EndlessChrom
EndlessRain
EnhaloTricks
ETFruitNinja
ethanrodgers223
Ezequileste
Falgor
Falkoopa
False Sense
FamiconDisk
Felix_the_Slayer
fenyx4
ferioku
Fire Rider
Fire_Voyager
FirstBlade
Flareon
Flintike
fogbadge.
foolssigma
FreddyOnDrugs
Friesnchip
GalacticPetey
Geno Boost
Ghirahilda
GladiusVortex
GM_3826
GoodGrief741
Gotann
GraveEclipse567
heylodom
hwrdjacob
iam8bit
Icana
iDazedX_x
Inawordyes
IntelliHeath1
Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur
isaac3000
Isaac: Venus Adept
IvanQuote
JaidynReiman
Jak_spoon
Jamurai
JDogindy
JohnnySparkxs
Just a random scrub
jweb22
KCCHIEFS27
KeniththeGatherer
KeybladeSmasher
Kikaru
Kind Dedede
KingCloud
KingShadow
KiraYoshikage
KirbyDragon
Kirbyfan391
Kisae
KMDP
Kokirikory
Koori
Kumatora
Kycse
Lady Palutena
Lampy
LaniusShrike
LasermasterA
Leafeon523
LeeYawshee
legendofrob1
LemmyKoopa
lightdasher
LightheartedBum
Lightosia
Linq
littl-myth
Liverpool19
Lone (Thirteenth)
Lonodel
Lord-Zero
Lucanic
Lucimar
Ludjinnado
lunarum
Lukingordex
Lurxy
M23-X0
MacSmitty
MagiusNecros
MAGMIS
MainJPW
Malcolm Belmont
MaskO'Gears
Master Rapier
MasterMushroom
Mav485
Mega Bidoof
Mendelsin
MetalMario128
Metocles
Minato Arisato
Mikegamer0608
Mishudo
Monkokaio
MonopolyRubix
MorbidAltruism
Moydow
MrMacBeth
MrToxicVoltage
Mythzotick
mynameisv
MysticKnives
N3ON
Nauzgo
Neo Zero
Niala
Nimbostratus
Ninjakid41592
Nintendokusou
NitrusVirus
NonSpecificGuy
NoR4U
Octillus
Oddyesy
Oniric Spriter
Oracle_Summon
Organization XIII
otarolgam
Oz37
Pacack
Papagenos
ParanoidDrone
Pcubed007
Pennate
Phaazoid
Pizza Robo
Plain Yogurt
Playcube
PlayfulMushroom
POKEMANSPIKA
Powerman293
PSIguy89
PrinceGal3n
PWN3
R.O.B.
Radical Beam
Radori
Raetah
Raziek
Red Ryu
RegiGygas117
Retro gamer
RhymeswithEmpty
Roger Smith
RosaPeach
Royvolution Ream
Ryan
Ryuutakeshi
Sabrewulf238
Sagittarius
sandfall
SanicJan
Scatmansworld25
Scoliosis Jones
Seb9k+
Secret Sexytime
Seleir
Seoxys
sheik93
Shin F.
Shinhed-echi
Shog
Sidboylol
SirCamp
skaaaa
Skeleton o' Fun
Skyblade12
Skyfox2000
sman3975
Smash_Handle69
SmashBro99
smashkirby
SmashShadow
smashtriforce77
smileMasky
SmilingMad
SMX
Solfiner
someonetookjacob
SonicLink125
SonicSmasher
SorrowOfAcheron
SoulofKhaos
Spatman
Spazzy_D
Speedwagon
Spootondorf
Sqid
SSBFan
Staarih
StaffofSmashing
Strider_Bond00J
StrikeBlade
SuperBrawler
Superfiremario
Supersmash77
Superyoshiom
Swampasaur
Sykin
Takasmash
TCT~Phantom
TeenGirlSquad
TehEpicRyuga
ThatShadowLink
The Curious Volnutt
The One Who Wrote This
Thekewlusername
T-Hell
TheRealHeroOfWinds
TheSeanMan
TheSpaceKing
The Stoopid Unikorn
TheTactician
thethirdkoopa
ThirdDay
ThoughtfulWanderer
ThunderOverload
TimeSmash
Tiyomako
ToothiestAura
True Blue Warrior
Turmalinium
UltimateWario
Ultinarok
Vann Accessible
Vegito2727
Venus of the Desert Bloom
Vintage Creep
Violenceman
walph
Warheart_666
Wigglytuff ★
Wintropy
WhiteEaglePL
Xelion
Xenigma
XeVioN
Xiivi
xLemmy_KoopaX
XTremeGamer1234
XxLtxX
YellowLord
YoshiandToad
Young Horsetail
Your Hero
zagman505
zaiman12345
Zandro
ZanZero
ZarroTsu
ZeldaMaster
ZestyÑ
Zulyar
Zuppo

Billybae10K · Jun 20, 2018

I feel like with our waiting for Isaac, this is going to make every new reveal, every new trailer, every new everything much more terrifying for us. Firstly, with trailers, hoping not to see Isaac as an AT (Though that's still a good result if it does happen) and then assuming Isaac is a playable, waiting until his actual trailer.

I am curious as to where they'd slot him for reveal if he was a character, because he wouldn't be the last character to be revealed, nor would he be one of the first. Would he maybe take the Shulk slot in terms of when he's revealed?

Sabrewulf238 · Jun 20, 2018

Billybae10K said:
I feel like with our waiting for Isaac, this is going to make every new reveal, every new trailer, every new everything much more terrifying for us. Firstly, with trailers, hoping not to see Isaac as an AT (Though that's still a good result if it does happen) and then assuming Isaac is a playable, waiting until his actual trailer.

I am curious as to where they'd slot him for reveal if he was a character, because he wouldn't be the last character to be revealed, nor would he be one of the first. Would he maybe take the Shulk slot in terms of when he's revealed?

I agree I think he'd be somewhere in the middle, not the first but not the last either.....but I think he could be revealed at any point between first and last.

The thing is, I'd expect to see a reveal for Simon Belmont and King K. Rool before Isaac. I suppose Simon Belmont could be the "big finish" but the fact that the guy who leaked Simon knew about him, but didn't know about other characters makes me think Simon Belmonts reveal could be the next one coming. (since his reveal may be further along the pipeline)

The only way I could see Isaac coming before King K. Rool is if they're planning to reveal King K. Rool last.

All that said I wouldn't entirely count anything out. I mean, wasn't Duck Hunt Duo technically the last newcomer revealed for Smash 4? (for the base game I mean)

Skyblade12 · Jun 20, 2018

https://twitter.com/AllSourceGaming/status/1009455106637656064

The Project Plan was made in December 2015. Just two months after the ballot closed. Well before ARMS or Xenoblade Chronicles 2 were on the radar.

Ballot choices intensifying.

Billybae10K · Jun 20, 2018

Skyblade12 said:
https://twitter.com/AllSourceGaming/status/1009455106637656064

The Project Plan was made in December 2015. Just two months after the ballot closed. Well before ARMS or Xenoblade Chronicles 2 were on the radar.

Ballot choices intensifying.

This certainly bodes well for us, though I still think ARMS could be represented, seeing as we already have the healing field item from that game in the items list. But this could be seriously good news for us!

Sabrewulf238 · Jun 20, 2018

In a way it's kinda funny to think that Isaacs fate would have been decided three years ago.

(but of course that makes sense, it's not like they'd be making roster decisions this year)

Qina · Jun 20, 2018

Think maybe since he appeared in Brawl but not Smash 4, there was a possibility he'd be DLC? I know I was definitely rooting for my boy.

KMDP · Jun 20, 2018

Qina said:
Think maybe since he appeared in Brawl but not Smash 4, there was a possibility he'd be DLC? I know I was definitely rooting for my boy.

I started rooting for Isaac when the ballot started, since until then I didn't think I'd have the chance to have any impact on who did or didn't get into Smash. Needless to say, I never stopped.

pupNapoleon · Jun 20, 2018

Ultinarok said:
You know, has anyone ever considered that somehow Sakurai has a poor relationship with Camelot for some unknown reason? It dawned on me that both Waluigi and Isaac, two fan favorites, are essentially products of Camelot, and both have been shafted by Sora in the last two games. Is it perhaps possible that some animosity exists between the two that keeps their characters out of the spotlight in Smash?

Of course this is just conjecture, because Sakurai retrieved Snake from the abyss despite Snakes primary reason for his original inclusion, Kojima, being absent, so I dont think a petty feud would have an impact on a character's chances. Still, its an interesting observation.

Or perhaps Waluigi was excluded because Isaac got in and Sakurai couldn't procure the real estate for both (although Nintendo holds right over both I'm sure), so perhaps Waluigis sacrifice was not in vain? Just theory crafting over here....would kind of rather have Isaac anyway if I'm being honest. Golden Sun was a fun game.

The Japanese are very serious and no nonsense about intellectual property, so its possible that Waluigi and Isaac likeliness' are still the property of their original creators from Camelot, and that Sakurai has to appeal to them for rights to the characters. Could be false of course, but yeah, I could see a conflict with that person being a hindrance to the characters inclusion after all this time.

Every release of Smash, I get caught up in the theory of "we are being trolled," because well.. Sakurai loves his surprises and loves his playful trolling. Like Toon Link in the spirit tracks stage.
So I wont say my normal "maybe some of the things shown werent actually what they seemed," but maybe what we saw of Waluigi and others (Bomberman), is not as it seemed.

Either way, I dont think the exclusion of Waluigi and Isaac is anything of particular note. Waluigi is a fun character who would be great as an addition, but he isnt even the next most prominant Mario character. And Isaac is a niche game.
id love them both. Isaac is my second most wanted after K Rool. But it is no indication of poor treatment. Waluigi was even given honorable mentions many times. With the stated sentiment that he was loved.

isaac3000 · Jun 20, 2018

Skyblade12 said:
https://twitter.com/AllSourceGaming/status/1009455106637656064

The Project Plan was made in December 2015. Just two months after the ballot closed. Well before ARMS or Xenoblade Chronicles 2 were on the radar.

Ballot choices intensifying.

Quoting a guy from the above link: Interesting how development on the next game started immediately after the ballot ended. It's almost as if the ballot wasn't intended for Smash 4. This really puts the Mii costume in a new context.

Now this fills me with hope like never before!!

Kisae · Jun 20, 2018

Hi guys i was searching for forums and websites i visited for Smash4 according to Isaac ans then i remembered Smashboards. Glad to see you again ! Count me in for another road for our Golden Boy !

N3ON · Jun 20, 2018

isaac3000 said:
Quoting a guy from the above link: Interesting how development on the next game started immediately after the ballot ended. It's almost as if the ballot wasn't intended for Smash 4. This really puts the Mii costume in a new context.

Now this fills me with hope like never before!!

He's right. Polls are always used in posterity. The Brawl poll is what got Mega Man included, seven years later. The Smash ballot will probably continue to shape the roster even past this game. Which is why suggestions for a new ballot for this game demonstrate a misunderstanding of how they work.

Sabrewulf238 · Jun 20, 2018

isaac3000 said:
Quoting a guy from the above link: Interesting how development on the next game started immediately after the ballot ended. It's almost as if the ballot wasn't intended for Smash 4. This really puts the Mii costume in a new context.

Now this fills me with hope like never before!!

I always had this feeling about the ballot, which was why I encouraged people to vote for characters even though they were assist trophies in Smash 4.

Support for Isaac was fairly hot during the ballot (yeah not as much as Ridley or King K. Rool but still good) so it could turn out to be a perfect storm for Isaac getting into Smash if the ballot was intended to decide the newcomers for Smash Ultimate.

I hate the idea of getting my hopes up though. It's easy to start seeing signs where there are none.

Billybae10K · Jun 20, 2018

Sabrewulf238 said:
I always had this feeling about the ballot, which was why I encouraged people to vote for characters even though they were assist trophies in Smash 4.

Support for Isaac was fairly hot during the ballot (yeah not as much as Ridley or King K. Rool but still good) so it could turn out to be a perfect storm for Isaac getting into Smash if the ballot was intended to decide the newcomers for Smash Ultimate.

I hate the idea of getting my hopes up though. It's easy to start seeing signs where there are none.

At least if our hopes are dashed, there's enough of us here who'll know the pain of Isaac missing out again. I'm in a weird boat since Isaac's my only want from this new game - Everything else looks perfect so far from what they've shown so I probably won't know what I want until I've seen it, apart from Isaac.

Was he at all popular during the ballot period? I remember voting for him myself but I wasn't aware if there were any communities that were also pulling for him at the time.

KMDP · Jun 20, 2018

Sabrewulf238 said:
I always had this feeling about the ballot, which was why I encouraged people to vote for characters even though they were assist trophies in Smash 4.

Support for Isaac was fairly hot during the ballot (yeah not as much as Ridley or King K. Rool but still good) so it could turn out to be a perfect storm for Isaac getting into Smash if the ballot was intended to decide the newcomers for Smash Ultimate.

I hate the idea of getting my hopes up though. It's easy to start seeing signs where there are none.

I feel like Isaac's worst enemy in Melee and Brawl was timing, Melee was too early (the GBA was just getting started), and Brawl was too late (where any public attention Golden Sun had was petering off, enough to justify an Assist Trophy, but not enough to justify a full character). Then Golden Sun as a series kind of fizzled out.

It's worth noting that Golden Sun was one of the best selling and highest rated games on the GBA.

N3ON · Jun 20, 2018

Brawl was fine timing, people were still interested in the series, and Isaac was consistently on fan roster and fake leaks. The roster was decided back in 2005, that was still plenty close enough to GS's releases. It was what with the competition being so stiff at the time, Isaac got edged out. :/

KMDP · Jun 20, 2018

N3ON said:
Brawl was fine timing, people were still interested in the series, and Isaac was consistently on fan roster and fake leaks. The roster was decided back in 2005, that was still plenty close enough to GS's releases. It was what with the competition being so stiff at the time, Isaac got edged out. :/

I imagine another factor, related to 'stiff competition' is that Golden Sun is just another RPG among an ocean of them, especially in Japan.

I'd actually like to know what the popularity and reception of Golden Sun was like in Japan at the time.

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