Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Billybae10K]

The big hope is that since this is the Ultimate version of Smash, at minimum we might get back Isaac's assist trophy from Brawl, which I don't think is a large stretch to assume. Playable is the dream though, assuming he did well on the ballot and is on Sakurai's radar at least given he's been an assist before (We'll just ignore that cut from sm4sh part )

 

[Oracle_Summon]

The big hope is that since this is the Ultimate version of Smash, at minimum we might get back Isaac's assist trophy from Brawl, which I don't think is a large stretch to assume. Playable is the dream though, assuming he did well on the ballot and is on Sakurai's radar at least given he's been an assist before (We'll just ignore that cut from sm4sh part )

Smash 4 was not really kind to the Golden Sun franchise. Only two songs.....and we saw no sign of Isaac at all. Honestly, seeing Isaac being omitted entirely from Smash 4 and then demoted to being an Assist Trophy again would leave me baffled and irritated. It begs the question, why not put Isaac in Smash 4 if you are going to just make him an Assist Trophy in Ultimate?

 

[N3ON]

What I could legitimately see happening is Isaac's placement on the ballot, which was probably not stellar, but notable enough, at least prompting Sakurai to revisit his role as an AT. That may have a real shot at coming to fruition, as opposed to the other scenarios often presented, which, while I'd love some of them, seem like a stretch to me tbh.

It still wouldn't be doing the series justice, but I'll take that as opposed to the nearly nothing Smash 4 brought.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

What I could legitimately see happening is Isaac's placement on the ballot, which was probably not stellar, but notable enough, at least prompting Sakurai to revisit his role as an AT. That may have a real shot at coming to fruition, as opposed to the other scenarios often presented, which, while I'd love some of them, seem like a stretch to me tbh.

It still wouldn't be doing the series justice, but I'll take that as opposed to the nearly nothing Smash 4 brought.

Well, considering the others before Isaac on the ballot was basically cut veterans and assist trophies, I would say his chances are pretty good. He only has Paper Mario, Ashley, KIng K. Rool and Bandana Dee to contend with now.

 

[N3ON]

Well, considering the others before Isaac on the ballot was basically cut veterans and assist trophies, I would say his chances are pretty good. He only has Paper Mario, Ashley, KIng K. Rool and Bandana Dee to contend with now.

The results of the ballot aren't going to be 1:1 from the unofficial polls conducted around that time, Bayonetta proves as much. There will still be a large silent force at work, and that contingent doesn't usually operate in Isaac's favour. :/

 

[Oracle_Summon]

The results of the ballot aren't going to be 1:1 from the unofficial polls conducted around that time, Bayonetta proves as much. There will still be a large silent force at work, and that contingent doesn't usually operate in Isaac's favour. :/

Hmmm.....seems so. I mean, the Eternal Darkness franchise was not seen (according to me) in Smash 4 in any sense. In relation to what you are saying, do you suggest that Isaac and Golden Sun share the same fate?

 

[N3ON]

Hmmm.....seems so. I mean, the Eternal Darkness franchise was not seen (according to me) in Smash 4 in any sense. In relation to what you are saying, do you suggest that Isaac and Golden Sun share the same fate?

Well I think both are underrepresented, but I don't think ED is large enough to merit anything outside an AT, really. Whereas GS has performed comparably to existing series on the roster and under a different timeframe probably would have a presence on there. ED, not so much.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Well I think both are underrepresented, but I don't think ED is large enough to merit anything outside an AT, really. Whereas GS has performed comparably to existing series on the roster and under a different timeframe probably would have a presence on there. ED, not so much.

Ok. Anyways, I will be looking at Assist Trophies for all characters and will post any findings of Golden Sun that I come across.

 

[_Sheik]

I'll take an AT over nothing (read: Smash 4)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I would love him to get in. Albeit, if he gets costumes, I think Matthew and his older self should be one of them. Though if he were to get an Echo, either Matthew or Felix would work, as they both have a large set of costume options from their own games. There's 8 playable characters in Lost Age and in Dark Dawn, after all.

 

[Zuppo]

Issac with Echo Felix. Why Nintendo doesn’t allow us to such greatness

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Over on the Golden Sun reddit I just shared conceptual images I created for Isaac potentially joining Super Smash Bros Ultimate using art from NibrocRock

 

[Diddy Kong]

I hope Isaac did well enough on the ballot to be considered. Yet I don't think it's too likely. He isn't from a well established franchise, like for example King K.Rool, and might simply not really have a future. I hope to be wrong of course, and that Isaac in Smash WILL lead to a new, or reworked Golden Sun game, but Isaac is easily a character am less vocal about, because I just don't wanna be dissapointed. Am still here however, and will support Isaac and the return of Golden Sun forever, but I just don't see our chances being all too great honestly.

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

I hope Isaac did well enough on the ballot to be considered. Yet I don't think it's too likely. He isn't from a well established franchise, like for example King K.Rool, and might simply not really have a future. I hope to be wrong of course, and that Isaac in Smash WILL lead to a new, or reworked Golden Sun game, but Isaac is easily a character am less vocal about, because I just don't wanna be dissapointed. Am still here however, and will support Isaac and the return of Golden Sun forever, but I just don't see our chances being all too great honestly.

I have to agree, even if it wouldn't help ease how awful that sting of Isaac missing out again would be. If this is a game of popularity, this would really be Isaac's chance to finally get in when he'd normally never be considered since his series is so irrelevant. He would become a more recognized face again, renewed interest in Golden Sun could finally bring Camelot around to GS4, and an entire series could live on or die just because of one decision that could go either way. It's weird to think how monumental this inclusion or exclusion is, but either scenario feels very possible and they could lead to completely opposite fates.

That's why the sting might still hurt even if I'm keeping expectations low.

 

[KMDP]

Hi. New here (though an on and off lurker XD). I've been a big fan of Isaac since... well... Golden Sun came out (I even voted for him on the ballot). I'd love to be added to the List of Supporters!

I hope Isaac did well enough on the ballot to be considered. Yet I don't think it's too likely. He isn't from a well established franchise, like for example King K.Rool, and might simply not really have a future. I hope to be wrong of course, and that Isaac in Smash WILL lead to a new, or reworked Golden Sun game, but Isaac is easily a character am less vocal about, because I just don't wanna be dissapointed. Am still here however, and will support Isaac and the return of Golden Sun forever, but I just don't see our chances being all too great honestly.

While I'm sure many are aware (but may have forgotten) I looked back on the results of Source Gaming's Smash Ballot Poll from 2015. In it, Isaac scored third place (after Wolf, Inkling and Ice Climbers and before Snake and King K. Rool). Of course, this was based on Source Gaming's polling method, which used a scoring system of 1-5 (i.e. other characters, like K. Rool, had more votes, some of which were low); but I'd say that it bodes well for our Golden Boy if that poll is in anyway reflective of the actual Smash Ballot (at least, in our hearts).

 

[Billybae10K]

I have to agree, even if it wouldn't help ease how awful that sting of Isaac missing out again would be. If this is a game of popularity, this would really be Isaac's chance to finally get in when he'd normally never be considered since his series is so irrelevant. He would become a more recognized face again, renewed interest in Golden Sun could finally bring Camelot around to GS4, and an entire series could live on or die just because of one decision that could go either way. It's weird to think how monumental this inclusion or exclusion is, but either scenario feels very possible and they could lead to completely opposite fates.

That's why the sting might still hurt even if I'm keeping expectations low.

I find it hilariously ironic that you're making this sort of analogy and of course, Takumi from Fates, a game known for its single choice that changes an entire playthrough, is your profile picture.

 

[KMDP]

I find it hilariously ironic that you're making this sort of analogy and of course, Takumi from Fates, a game known for its single choice that changes an entire playthrough, is your profile picture.

Is it doubly ironic that Fates is a Fire Emblem game, a franchise that might not have even come over to the west if not for Smash Bros.?

 

[Billybae10K]

Is it doubly ironic that Fates is a Fire Emblem game, a franchise that might not have even come over to the west if not for Smash Bros.?

Is it triply ironic that I actually bring that point up during this video I created to get Isaac a little bit of exposure?

Basically, I wanted to let my fanbase know about why I enjoy Isaac as a character because a lot of them don't know his background, and I just wanted to talk about why I personally want to see Isaac in Ultimate and stuff. Thought I'd post it here given it's relevant to our Golden Boy.

 

[Playcube]

We Need Isaac in!!

If he Doesn't Made it then there will be Next time in SSB6

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

I find it hilariously ironic that you're making this sort of analogy and of course, Takumi from Fates, a game known for its single choice that changes an entire playthrough, is your profile picture.

Haha, that's a connection I wasn't expecting to see today! Maybe I was inspired I was just about to add a point about FE probably dying off if it and its Smash characters stayed Japan-only too.

I do have a soft spot for Takumi even if he can be an idiot sometimes.

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

Is it triply ironic that I actually bring that point up during this video I created to get Isaac a little bit of exposure?

Basically, I wanted to let my fanbase know about why I enjoy Isaac as a character because a lot of them don't know his background, and I just wanted to talk about why I personally want to see Isaac in Ultimate and stuff. Thought I'd post it here given it's relevant to our Golden Boy.

Really good stuff. I'm really hoping this gets more views and attention on Smash related sites because first off, it's really well-made, but it also echoes a lot of the points we've been making since Ultimate was first shown. That doesn't just include here in the Isaac thread, but also other character support threads and the speculation threads as well. If we get more videos like these to show people not just the golden opportunity for these characters but also the potential movesets and series content, it spreads awareness and interest. It could encourage people to show their love and interest for these characters all across Nintendo-related social media, and maybe we could make a real push for DLC if the cut for the base game is missed.

 

[Deleted member]

Isaac as a secret unlockable anyone?

Comic of the day!:

Dude does NOT look like a lady.

 

[Playcube]

Shadow,Isaac,Dillon,and Ashley are Not Confirmed Assist Trophies so this Means they All have a Chance.

Most Likely:Dillon

Between:Shadow the Hedgehog and Isaac.

Least Likely:Ashley

 

[N3ON]

Shadow,Isaac,Dillon,and Ashley are Not Confirmed Assist Trophies so this Means they All have a Chance.

Most Likely:Dillon

Between:Shadow the Hedgehog and Isaac.

Least Likely:Ashley

Funny enough, I would flip that list upside-down. Ashley is crazy popular in Japan.

 

[MysticKnives]

Shadow,Isaac,Dillon,and Ashley are Not Confirmed Assist Trophies so this Means they All have a Chance.

Most Likely:Dillon

Between:Shadow the Hedgehog and Isaac.

Least Likely:Ashley

Honestly, I feel Ashley is likelier than all of the others.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Personally I'm expecting the next newcomer announced is going to be Simon Belmont, based on the rumour. So I won't really be holding my breath the next time a newcomer is getting revealed.

After that though I think things will get very interesting, since the only other character that I feel is in a strong position is King K. Rool.

I think the rate at which we get newcomer reveals is really going to set the tone too. If we get a newcomer reveal in June or July I'll feel more confident in Isaacs chances....but if it's August and we still haven't gotten an announcement of some kind I think the tone is going to start feeling a bit dire.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Japan might indeed be thrown a bone with Ashley if she's insanely popular there. Ridley was pretty much added because of western fan opression demand, so I am not sure if they are gonna give us ALL the ballot giants who are requested by western fans (and they seem to have data on region popularity). And am guessing these giants of western demand are King K.Rool, Geno, Isaac, Banjo-Kazooie, and probably some more I couldn't even think of. Kinda anxious what Japan has voted for honestly.. If Golden Sun did as great as it here over there, Isaac is a good contender. The removal of his AT in Smash 4 might mean he once got considered, but was decided against. The inclusions of Robin and Shulk might have got some to do with that, filling the Mage Swordsman and RPG Hero archetypes more easy and safely than Isaac.

As far as I know, Isaac was strongly supported during the Smash 4 speculation era. He ranked amongst the likes of King K.Rool and Ridley, tho both where easily more requested and we shouldn't kid ourself that they didn't. Cloud and Bayonetta probably did a little better than him in the end, but outside of the likes of cut veterans, Dixie Kong, Inkling, Geno and maybe Elma, who else is left that could garner such massive support? Toad, Waluigi and Daisy seem like contenders because they're from Mario, but that's really all I can think of.

 

[N3ON]

Personally I'm expecting the next newcomer announced is going to be Simon Belmont, based on the rumour. So I won't really be holding my breath the next time a newcomer is getting revealed.

After that though I think things will get very interesting, since the only other character that I feel is in a strong position is King K. Rool.

I think the rate at which we get newcomer reveals is really going to set the tone too. If we get a newcomer reveal in June or July I'll feel more confident in Isaacs chances....but if it's August and we still haven't gotten an announcement of some kind I think the tone is going to start feeling a bit dire.

Eh, who knows. We got Rosalina, Palutena and Greninja announced before all of the first round of Gematsu characters were revealed.

 

[Eagle]

What playstyle have people been thinking for Isaac? I know he's got a slew of things available, but if he were in I'd prefer if they stuck to the class Isaac is when he only has Venus Djinns equipped. So like.. earthquakes, spires, rockfalls, thorns and vines. I think he'd be cool as a mainly middle-weight ranged character. How cool would it be if he could create his own platforms! Limited, of course. I'd love for his horizontal recovery to be jumping from floating piece of rock to floating piece of rock just like in the games (especially like in the beginning). I liked the idea of summoning small rock spires that he could stand on in the air and that would fall down and hurt enemies. Maybe if his up+b was Wild Growth but only working on the ground/his own platforms to limit his recovery.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I am also hoping for mainly Venus Psynergy moves, and possibly only as little as possible sword attacks. Only a few sword attacks to keep enemies at bay, protect himself up close, and deal quick damage. I imagine the Psynergy moves being a little on the slower side, but have very big hitboxes and deal quite some damage. A lot of the attacks seem ground based, but a few could be anti-air, like the spires for example. That would allow for a lot of zoning potential, as earthquakes, thorns and vines would come from the ground, but the spires drop from midair.

His sword attacks wouldn't be TOO strong, I imagine them not packing as much of a punch as say, Link, but his Psynergy makes up for it. Also a ranged grab, a good shield, low traction and worse than average jumps and recovery would be characteristics I picture for Isaac. Probably quite a fast faller as well.

 

[Billybae10K]

Get Felix as an echo, have Felix get colour swaps of his party from GS2, get a Venus Lighthouse stage, proceed to throw Felix and a Sheba themed Felix off the side of the stage

 

[Skyblade12]

I hate when the thread updates and I don’t get an alert. Missed over a page.

Simon is looking less likely, since the Konami embargo turned out to not be for Castlevania. The fewer third party charactersc the better the chance for first party characters like Isaac.

 

[Organization XIII]

Well not really. 3rd parties have nothing to do with promotion and everything to do with star power. Unless you meant since Verge had to back peddle it makes his leak weaker and therefore Simon's chances look worse.

 

[Zuppo]

I’ve never seen so much people on Isaac’s topic. It’s the moment, let the sun rise again, Nintendo.

 

[KMDP]

I imagine Isaac would play similarly to Robin (not to Clone levels, just the general idea). Sword-based basic attacks (using Djinn attacks for Smashes), with psynergy relegated to his throws and specials.

An idea I had a couple of years ago was that you could charge his Specials to get the stronger variants. So, for example: let's say one of his specials is 'Gaia', you could charge that move to Mother Gaia and eventually Grand Gaia for more power/range.

 

[UltimateWario]

I always figured Isaac being a stance character could be cool.

You have 4 Djinn: Flint, Scorch, Gust, and Sleet. DSpecial is Djinni Set, which changes the currently set Djinni.

Isaac’s other specials change in appearance and property based on the current Djinni, but hitboxes remain the same. Isaac has an aura that indicates which Djinni is currently set. Djinni Set is nearly instant and can be cycled incredibly quickly, or with a command wheel like Shulk.

NSpecial is Unleash Djinni. Isaac leaps forward and strikes with great power and a lot of endlag. Each Djinni produces a different effect in this attack, such as Flint cleaving a rock in two (like Rock Smash), Scorch causing an explosion, Gust being a two hit attack, and Sleet producing a lot of knockback with low damage.

I figured since the draw of Golden Sun is the unique class and Djinn system, it should be worked into his character somehow. I’m no game designer though lol.

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

I really just want to strike a good balance between Psynergy and Djinn representation in Isaac's moveset. Condensed in the last two comments are a whole load of different ways Sakurai could take Isaac's character, and I think using the Stance archetype could be a great way to utilize how Djinn change Psynergy.

Similar to how Shulk's Monado Arts appear on a command wheel, there could be a similar menu with a lineup of Djinn Isaac could set by holding B and then selecting a Djinn. While it doesn't alter his entire moveset (sword swings could be jab + some aerials/tilts), it could change the remainder of his aerials/tilts/smash/special attacks. I don't know if it's too ambitious and demands too much extra development effort, but unlike how Shulk's attributes and traits change, Isaac would be the only character in the game who gains new moves based on his stance. Which moves he needs available could depend on the situation, and his playstyle could be drastically altered based on which Djinn are active.

This would instantly make him one of the most unique swordsmen, and I might try to build a full moveset around it to share with you because I'm extremely interested in making this Djinn/Psynergy balance work. Who knows? Maybe I'll see if I can incorporate how Psynergy come in "series" of varying strength!

 

[Deleted member]

If we're talking about unorthodox stages, might I suggest Belinsk Opera House, complete with Crystallux stage hazard?

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

Talking about Isaac's potential moves in Smash Ultimate made me think back to an old moveset I wrote for Isaac at least three or so years ago (Good Ancient One it's been that long...!?)

If anyone's interested in it, I may revise it, but I'd be happy to post it again for old time's sake.

Anyways, I may not post as much as I used to, as I've toned down the speculating a little bit, but know that I'm still hopeful for Isaac appearing in Smash Ultimate, either a secret character or in a hypothetical DLC.

 

[Skyblade12]

Too many good stage possibilities.

Colosso with hazards around the sides of a small, intense central platform.

The Elemental Star Chamber with a central platform, water and small pillars at the edges, and occasional falling rocks.

The Lighthouses, splitting open, lighting up, and closing.

Air’s Rock and getting blown around by massive wind gusts.

Mt. Mikagi and four light sources that, if they all get hit, will awaken a dragon.

And so many more.