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Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday
- Thread starter N3ON
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Skyblade12
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This is the worst part of speculation. Knowing Sakurai could disconfirm the character at any time. Dreading every new reveal.
Billybae10K
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Not to mention the waiting for said reveals. I tuned in to the Assist Trophy only E3 match the other day and was holding my breath the whole time because I was expecting Isaac to just pop out of the trophy and be like, "Hey guys, move." Doesn't help that I'm also watching the site daily on the very slim chance they give new assist updates (Though they'll just cycle through all the already known stuff first so I'm just torturing myself).
ThoughtfulWanderer
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Or inversely, when a newcomer reveal comes and you silently hope that it's your character until you're inevitably disappointed and realize the window for them continues to get smaller and smaller.
Skyblade12
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True.
Although newcomers would be welcome. New info to speculate on and see what it does to Isaac’s chances.
Metocles
Smash Journeyman
Yeah, watching that reveal during E3, I just internally sucked in my breath during the ATs which were machine-gunned out. It was sort of brutal, really. Unlike Brawl or Sm4sh that had more drawn out reveals for tons of characters, it just had instantaneous disconfirmations for a slew of characters. I don't really know what it means for now because Sm4sh had similar chances for Isaac, but this go around simply seems more distilled toward fan service and wish fulfillment among the fanbase in general.
I agree with the notion that the choice of Ridley clearly indicates this, along with the return of every character and even old pokeball pokemon. Now it becomes a game of what the other choices become. If the next reveal, for instance, is K. Rool, there's really no reason to give up hope on our boy. If it were something like a new Pokemon or ARMS, it casts it a little further into doubt.
I agree with the notion that the choice of Ridley clearly indicates this, along with the return of every character and even old pokeball pokemon. Now it becomes a game of what the other choices become. If the next reveal, for instance, is K. Rool, there's really no reason to give up hope on our boy. If it were something like a new Pokemon or ARMS, it casts it a little further into doubt.
Skyblade12
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Exactly. K. Rool would be the best thing possible for us.
Although I actually think it will go the other way around. I think K. Rool will be the last big name, and Isaac will be announced first.
ThoughtfulWanderer
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While K. Rool does give further credence to the idea of "fan-favorites only/are prioritized", could you think of a character that still supports that idea while almost certainly being behind Isaac in popularity? I know it's impossible to be sure, but hey, couldn't hurt to have someone to root for.
Skyblade12
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Ray from Custom Robo. Another cut Assist Trophy from an even more niche franchise that hasn't had as much fan support.
If Ray is revealed next, Isaac is a lock, in my opinion.
Plus, he'd be pretty sweet.
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Sabrewulf238
Smash Hero
I'm not sure if I'd say they're behind but I think Ashley and Bandana Dee are in a similar place to Isaac. Though with the limited spots available I'm not sure their inclusion would give me great confidence for Isaac.
I think getting an Advance Wars character or Chibi Robo would look good though.
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Sabrewulf238
Smash Hero
So I was just looking at this video about Assist Trophies. Apparentely there are 30 assist trophies we currently know about and Sakurai said there were over 50 of them in the game. So going by that there will be at least 59 of them.
Which means there are potentially another 29 assist trophies still unrevealed.
If we assume for a moment that the "Everyone is Here" applies to assist trophies just as much as it does to playable characters then the following characters would presumably come back as assist trophies:
(in alphabetical order)
Ashley
Barbara
Chain Chomp
Dark Samus
Devil
Dillon
Elec Man
Excitebikes
Gray Fox
Helirin
Infantry & Tanks
Isaac
Isabelle
Jill
Kat & Ana
Lakitu & Spinies
Magnus
Mr. Resetti
Nightmare
Phosphora
Prince of Sable
Ray MK III
Saki Amamiya
Shadow
Skull Kid
Tingle
Which brings the total number of assist trophies to 56.
Assuming on top of this that each third party may be getting an assist trophy if they didn't already have one then we could reasonably expect a...
Street Fighter Assist
Final Fantasy (or Square Enix) Assist
Which brings the number to 58.
That's before even considering any other brand new assist trophies that haven't been revealed. (and some could potentially be third party assists like Bomberman)
Looking at this it certainly seems plausible that an assist trophy (or dare I say, more than one) could be promoted. ...or on the other hand my entire assumption could be wrong and not all assist trophies will return. (though there shouldn't be any technical reasons for them not returning)
Though it would be incredibly fitting to bring back every assist trophy for Smash Bros Ultimate. (and most of the ones from the previous game could probably be ported over without too much fuss)
There's also another possibility in which my argument falls apart. They said that there were over 50 assist trophies, but there is the possibility that there are over 60 and they only said over 50 because it sounded better. I don't know why "over 50" would sound better than "over 60" though. I'd like to think they'd at least try to be accurate.
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Skyblade12
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50 is a nice, round number to use, so I can see why they may try to do it. But typically, the higher number would sound more impressive. Similarly, I'm thinking it's actually closer to 55 or so. Because "almost 60" would sound like more than "over 50".
However, it's possible that the number of ATs is not yet set, and that some are bouncing between Echo character or Assist Trophy depending on opportunity. So the number may be purposefully vague.
Still, that's really good info to have. So we've seen about half of the ones that could come back.
I'm thinking it's going to err on the high side, however, and be above 60. Because I think they'll want to include more new ones than just Rodin and the Squid Sisters.
However, it's possible that the number of ATs is not yet set, and that some are bouncing between Echo character or Assist Trophy depending on opportunity. So the number may be purposefully vague.
Still, that's really good info to have. So we've seen about half of the ones that could come back.
I'm thinking it's going to err on the high side, however, and be above 60. Because I think they'll want to include more new ones than just Rodin and the Squid Sisters.
ThoughtfulWanderer
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If it's strictly about the most popular, it probably wouldn't hurt to have Ashley or Dee (though Ashley's Japanese popularity may shoot her above), but they are more currently relevant characters so it could be seen as having a preference for them.
Andy is what I had in mind. They're in similar positions and with similar resumes overall, but Andy's popularity is so much less that Isaac's chances would skyrocket.
No, I don't believe any ATs will be cut either. It makes no sense since it's incredibly easy to port the Smash 4 data over and implement it without any changes. If they're not there, it's because they're getting promoted to a playable character. I don't see why there wouldn't be a ton of new ATs that will inflate the total to 50+, even with the six that might have a chance at getting promoted (Ashley, Dark Samus, Dillon, Isabelle, Shadow, and maybe Skull Kid/Tingle). Characters like Isaac and Ray would only be directly affected by seeing the end of the AT list.
Either way, barring Isaac's role getting revealed beforehand, that likely won't be seen until near launch if not at launch.
Sabrewulf238
Smash Hero
To be fair if they did end up with nearly 60 assist trophies they wouldn't say that. "Nearly 60" sounds worse than "more than 50".
I also don't think Sakurai will have had a particular number in mind for assist trophies. He probably just added more and over 50 was the number he ended up with.
That logic could be used to catapult the chances of many other characters though.
If Andy got in you'd have every popular thread in this section saying their character must be a shoe in because of it.
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EclipseSmash
Smash Cadet
He's sure as hell got my support.
I'd like to be added to that list as well!
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Please do not double post. Edit your messages instead. 
Billybae10K
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Out of curiosity, if Isaac actually does make it into the game, what sort of stage would you guys want to rep Golden Sun? Personally, I'd love to see a stage that shifts through the four Elemental Lighthouse Summits, so you'd start at the Mercury Lighthouse, maybe have Saturos as a background character, then go to Venus somehow with Fusion Dragon in the background, then Jupiter with Agatio and Karst, then Mars where you'd get the Doom Dragon or the Wise One.
It could be like Kalos Pokemon League where each unique setting has it's own set of hazards based around the psynergy that's based around that lighthouse. Or if we want to go real obscure with the stage, I would probably kill for a Tret Kolima based stage where you battle in the leaves of Tret's tree, while Laurel and Tret give the fighters really confused looks because why the hell is a Smash fight happening on their branches?
It could be like Kalos Pokemon League where each unique setting has it's own set of hazards based around the psynergy that's based around that lighthouse. Or if we want to go real obscure with the stage, I would probably kill for a Tret Kolima based stage where you battle in the leaves of Tret's tree, while Laurel and Tret give the fighters really confused looks because why the hell is a Smash fight happening on their branches?
Sabrewulf238
Smash Hero
I feel like a stage based on Venus Lighthouse makes the most sense. I'm not sure about a stage that moves between the four Elemental Lighthouses since they might not want to put that much effort into the stage. (though I suppose they'd be very similar in appearance so it could work)
That said a stage based on the Lighthouses might be too obvious. (for Sakurai) I could also see him going for Sol Sanctum (Elemental Star Chamber) or the town of Vale. (or since they're all located in the same area I could maybe see a Mt. Aleph + Sol Sanctum + Vale hybrid of some sort. I'm not sure if they'd go to that much effort though.
Billybae10K
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Oh, and not sure if anybody's noticed this, but assuming all the newcomers will be added to the artwork featuring all the characters, there's a very nice spot right next to Sheik that's coincidentally right in front of the sun. I know it's an absolutely massive reach, but I wouldn't put it past Sakurai to do something like that.
EDIT - You can also see that once Daisy was added, they shifted some character models around on the artwork, so it's even more plausible if we want to go that symbolic route of Isaac being under the sun.
EDIT - You can also see that once Daisy was added, they shifted some character models around on the artwork, so it's even more plausible if we want to go that symbolic route of Isaac being under the sun.
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True Blue Warrior
Smash Hero
Done. I have also updated the support list
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Comic of the Day:
BEHOLD, THE TRUE LAST BOSS OF BATTLE MODE: MISSIGNO!
and that was the last comic of Hiroyoshi. Up next: IGARASHI EMI!
BEHOLD, THE TRUE LAST BOSS OF BATTLE MODE: MISSIGNO!
and that was the last comic of Hiroyoshi. Up next: IGARASHI EMI!
RandomAce
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Y’know, I wonder how long it’s going to take until you run out of comics.Comic of the Day:
BEHOLD, THE TRUE LAST BOSS OF BATTLE MODE: MISSIGNO!
and that was the last comic of Hiroyoshi. Up next: IGARASHI EMI!
You’ve been doing this for years, I guess. What would you guys do on this thread if Issac does get in?
Skyblade12
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He's posted these before. He did run out eventually. He restarted when Smash Switch speculation started back up.
The first thing I'd do is play "The Golden Sun Rises", one of my favorite pieces of the soundtrack. Then we'd talk about how he plays, see how many references to the game we can find, talk about his stage, etcetera.
RandomAce
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Tiymako
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I am a huge fan of Golden Sun, I am really am hoping to see any Golden Sun character in as a playable character. This could really freshen Golden Sun and help spike it's popularity. So here is keeping my hopes for a Golden Sun character mainly Isaac, Mathew or Felix. They are a first party character and he wouldn't just be a sword user, he can use his psynergy as for most of his attacks. Have Djinns be a thing somehow, there is just so much potential for Golden Sun! #Isaac4SmashUltimate
Sabrewulf238
Smash Hero
I came across somebody running a poll on Reddit if you want to vote: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/8rqb83/im_interested_in_what_people_generally_want_from/
Not that I want to skew the poll or anything...
Not that I want to skew the poll or anything...
Billybae10K
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Skew the poll, nah. You're just "ensuring" that people are aware of it's existence, that's all.
True Blue Warrior
Smash Hero
I've added you.
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Altais
Smash Champion
Despite being obvious, I do think Venus Lighthouse would be the most fitting Golden Sun stage. The Elemental Lighthouses are arguably the most crucial landmarks in Golden Sun 1&2, around which the main plot revolves. What sets Venus Lighthouse apart from the other three is that it connects the two games. In Golden Sun, your final battle is atop Venus Lighthouse. In Golden Sun: The Lost Age, your adventure begins within Venus Lighthouse. Last but (maybe) not least, the titular characters of the Golden Sun games have traditionally been Venus Adepts. And what Elemental Lighthouse would be the most fitting for a Venus Adept?
The stage could be fairly simple. You have the beacon in the middle, and the two lifts on either side. Stand on the lift too long, and it goes down into the blast zone. At some point, the beacon will light, and the lighthouse will break apart, just like in the game. And once the greenish-yellow sphere rises, the lighthouse comes back together.
The best thing about Venus Lighthouse, in mine opinion, is that it would give you a breathtaking view of Weyard, similar to how the Sheikah Tower lets you see Hyrule. This way, we can have Venus Lighthouse and Mt Aleph. If you pause the game and look to your right, towards the ocean, you could see an area wrapped in mist. I could go on and on.
The stage could be fairly simple. You have the beacon in the middle, and the two lifts on either side. Stand on the lift too long, and it goes down into the blast zone. At some point, the beacon will light, and the lighthouse will break apart, just like in the game. And once the greenish-yellow sphere rises, the lighthouse comes back together.
The best thing about Venus Lighthouse, in mine opinion, is that it would give you a breathtaking view of Weyard, similar to how the Sheikah Tower lets you see Hyrule. This way, we can have Venus Lighthouse and Mt Aleph. If you pause the game and look to your right, towards the ocean, you could see an area wrapped in mist. I could go on and on.
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Billybae10K
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2018
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- 602
- Switch FC
- SW-4311-5852-0528
What would you guys make of the Djinn potentially acting as assist trophies, if Isaac both gets put back in and promoted from Assist to Fighter? I'd love to see the four Djinn types who would each have different effects based on their elements. Mercury Djinn could be similar to Alolan Vulpix and freeze fighters, Venus Djinn could cause spires to fall from the sky, Mars Djinn could cause fire plumes and the Jupiter Djinn could fire air slashes.
ThoughtfulWanderer
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2018
- Messages
- 1,054
I would prefer if Djinn could be incorporated into Isaac's moveset, even if it's just for a subtle nod in a move or two (what I honestly expect would happen). The AT concept sounds great, especially since their elemental powers would get fully showcased. If it's just one ability that they use, they would work best as a single AT where they go around in different directions and attack.
Organization XIII
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2015
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- 2,083
Hey guys there's a small survey here for Nintendo's E3 and they ask what games you were hoping to see. Go and answer Golden Sun. There may be only a few GS fans here but any opportunity to help them know there is still interest in the series should be taken.
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Sabrewulf238
Smash Hero
Something I was just looking at that I thought was interesting. The last Smash Bros games on Wii U and 3DS didn't have any unlockable assist trophies.....not even the Infantry and Tanks, which were an assist trophy that had to be unlocked in Brawl.
So it's possible that if Isaac returns as an assist he might no longer need to be unlocked.
So it's possible that if Isaac returns as an assist he might no longer need to be unlocked.
I feel like it's probably too much to expect them to incorporate Djinn into Isaacs moveset. (There's already a lot to work with with his Earth and Hand/Field psynergy) I could see the Venus Djinn (Flint) appearing in one of Isaacs taunts though.
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You know what is the best, well maybe second best, thing about getting every single veteran back? It means that all characters from now on, base and DLC, will be completely new unless they're an Echo. That increases a lot of character's chances ten fold. I think this is it guys, I'm being optimistic, I think this is when we finally see Isaac in Smash. Let's just pray he doesn't get Waluigi'd...
Billybae10K
Smash Ace
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- Switch FC
- SW-4311-5852-0528
I'm hopefully optimistic about his chances, just looking around at various characters that are still in the running and, assuming we get more disconfirmations based on assists that haven't been shown yet, even more so. I know I'm new to Smash boards and I'm mainly here to scratch that itch for Smash Bros discussion whilst supporting Isaac, literally my only want from this new Smash Bros, but I've got a gut feeling and I'm just happy to see there were other people asking for Isaac out there.
Back when Smash 4 came out, I'd often bring Isaac up as a potential character in speculations with friends, but none of them knew who he was, so it's awesome to see you guys really repping him.
Back when Smash 4 came out, I'd often bring Isaac up as a potential character in speculations with friends, but none of them knew who he was, so it's awesome to see you guys really repping him.
New to the board. I played Golden Sun on the GBA back in April and loved it. Isaac would make such a great character choice. I specifically like the idea of him using the Djinn. We don't really have a summoner character in Smash yet, and I think those types of fighters are the most interesting (summoner, mounted fighter, trio, etc.). Of course, he wouldn't need to be limited to using just them, but they'd definitely make for a cool moveset. I'm honestly unsure of his chances, but let's try and remain optimistic!
Here's hoping for Isaac!
Here's hoping for Isaac!