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Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday
- Thread starter N3ON
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SonicLink125
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That will always upset me for how bad Dark Dawn was marketed. It really should have waited to be a 3DS launch title instead. I bet it would have done amazingly sales wise.
ZelDan
Smash Master
honestly, I kinda envy them. Not that DD was bad necessarily, but The Lost Age ended things on such a nice note while DD, well, obviously didn't...
True Blue Warrior
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Updated support list.
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FlawedAI
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Over 600 supporters, and almost 1000 pages. We clearly have the demand, but all we need is for Nintendo to deliver.
True Blue Warrior
Smash Hero
Here's an important question - Venus Lighthouse or Elemental Star Chamber as our GS stage? Also in the hypothetical scenario where future DLC characters come with a bonus Echo Fighter, who would you want as Isaac's Echo fighter - Felix or Matthew?
FlawedAI
Smash Ace
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I personally feel like Venus Lighthouse is the more iconic location, and was used as a stage in Brawl-, meaning people are already familiar with it. That said, the Elemental Star Chamber could also work really well. A traveling stage visiting locations around Weyard like the four lighthouses, Vale, the forest with Tret, and more could be nice. The traveling platform could be based on Isaac's ship.
While I think we could potentially get both, I think that Felix would work better as an Echo. He's more visually distinct, and has slightly more variation in personality and fighting style.
DogManStar
Smash Ace
Late to the discussion but I don't know if a Golden Sun and FE crossover would work that well. Golden Sun psynergy is pretty wild, I feel like most of the main adepts in the series are far more powerful than the majority of FE characters. Although I guess that's also true of SMT characters and TMS ended up happening so anything is fair game. idk how a GSxFE game would end up looking honestly
SonicLink125
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Chasm is the original JoJo reference pic.twitter.com/e1AYicsR8Z
— Golden Sun Shitposts (@GS_Shitposts) December 28, 2019
So does that make Chasm the best Djinni? lol
THE 6r
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On that note, an FE and AW crossover would be godlike.
Billybae10K
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I think Venus Lighthouse is more likely than the Elemental Star Chamber as our smash stage, just because in-game it already has a lot of set pieces that can make it stand out as a Smash Stage - The floating platforms that lead up from the elevators to the main platform - The way the lighthouse bursts into four pieces and then reattaches itself after it's activation in the story could make a fun little stage gimmick - We could even get Saturos and Menardi show up in the background, fuse into the Fusion Dragon and actually cause said breakage as a bit of visual flair.
That being said, I've always championed the Elemental Star Chamber mainly because I just want the Elemental Stars theme in Smash somehow.
As for an echo fighter, I think Felix would be more likely than Matthew, simply because The Lost Age has more popularity overall - I think he'd be more interesting since Matthew also looks just like Isaac and people might use that to criticize the character, plus I think there are more Felix fans out there overall.
SNEKeater
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Cory Barlog, director of God of War, would sacrifice all these Nintendo franchises in exchange of Golden Sun:
Of course it's nothing more than a curiosity, I thought it would be funny to share it here haha.
Dear Nintendo,
— cory barlog (@corybarlog) December 29, 2019
My body is ready for a modern GOLDEN SUN game built on the still smouldering ashes of literally EVERY ONE of these franchises! Franchises I love very much, just not as much as GOLDEN SUN.
In conclusion...you have my sword, and my bow, and my axe.
hugsies,
Cory♥️ https://t.co/8W8mYA5SHm
Of course it's nothing more than a curiosity, I thought it would be funny to share it here haha.
Isaac: Venus Adept
Smash Lord
Golden Sun getting noticed by the director of one of the biggest games of 2018 is so surreal. Having more prominent names like this expressing their love for Golden Sun is going to help us heaps. Heck let the man make his own Golden Sun action game on the side starring Adult Isaac
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SNEKeater
Smash Master
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Yep. That's nice. Also Shinobi, the Reset Era admin who hinted at Banjo before E3, is a big fan of Golden Sun.
Another tweet from Barlog. He seems in the mood for Golden Sun :D
Inspired... pic.twitter.com/g8hKcDhrUp
— cory barlog (@corybarlog) December 29, 2019
GoodGrief741
Smash Legend
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I was gonna make a joke about Dad Isaac journeying through Weyard with Boi Matthew but now I can't unsee Flier Emblem.
Hydewell
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If Isaac (or a GS character) finally makes it, I would like Venus lighthouse, just because it was an important place for the story and being in two games. But knowing who is the director, I could see some strange stage like Kolima Forest.
Matthew would be an easy skin, like Alph or the Heroes. So Felix would be a better choice. Also, they could put him the Greninja side B to emulate the Sand psyenergy to distinguish them a bit.
It's nice to see an important developer loves Golden Sun. I always have a feeling Golden Sun didn't inspired any developer or wasn't being liked by some important people of videogame creators, despite having its fanbase.
ArkSPiTFirE
Smash Journeyman
This content drought is really killing me. There has to be a Direct in January right? I hope we don't have to wait too long.
SonicLink125
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Supposedly, the Switch is scheduled to get a software update in Jan 6th. So maybe a Direct will be happening around that time? Who knows really?
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EricTheGamerman
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I kind of doubt that to be honest. It might have done better, but keep in mind that Dark Dawn released a few months before the 3DS anyway, was backwards compatible so it wasn't just casually getting left behind, and the 3DS didn't exactly sell super well at $250 out the gate (even with a theoretical Golden Sun, you were still going to have a hard time selling the system since there was still months until the first must have titles were even out on the system).
Dark Dawn's marketing was definitely pretty awful, but I think the drop in quality as well as the fact that the game took so long to finally come out were just really big nails in the coffin for any third title in the series at that point. They hadn't struck while the iron was hot, and even when we got the third game, it wasn't quite what people were hoping for, so Golden Sun just had it rough all around. I don't think a 3DS launch title of Dark Dawn would have achieved much outside of some marginal improvements to the performances of both it and the 3DS itself (again, I can't state how abysmal that $250 price tag was for a system with so very little to play while the DS was also still receiving major titles like Pokemon Black and White that gave consumers no incentive to upgrade in already a rough period for traditional handhelds).
Ura
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Hard disagree on that buddy. Games in the release window of the 3DS that were marketed properly were given a massive boost. That's exactly how FE Awakening performed the way it did. Because Nintendo actually bothered to market that game properly VS their mishaps in the 2000's. So many franchises outside of Golden Sun fell victim to this. Thankfully, Nintendo has done a better job at this in recent years.
Of course that being said, Dark Dawn had it's own issues like being a step below it's predecessors and being released too far apart as you mentioned. I think the sweet spot for GS3 would have been like 2005/2006 instead of 2010. If we got like a direct sequel to TLA around that time, Isaac would have been a lock for Brawl IMO.
Isaac: Venus Adept
Smash Lord
It made the news fellas!
God of War director wants Nintendo to release another Golden Sun https://t.co/kTUwyqoq39 pic.twitter.com/8DPUbQoyxA
— GoNintendoTweet (@GoNintendoTweet) December 30, 2019
SonicLink125
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Golden Sun Dark Dawn main trio in summary pic.twitter.com/JtAxKxliu7
— Golden Sun Shitposts (@GS_Shitposts) December 30, 2019
Only Tyrell would think that right away. Lol
Now this is awesome! The more people see the demand for Golden Sun, the better! Whether we know it or not, we’re helping pave the road for Golden Sun’s epic return. I can’t wait to see that!
Isaac: Venus Adept
Smash Lord
Barlog's tweey inspired me to make a God of War 2018 inspired drawing of Isaac and Matthew
@corybarlog expressing his desire for a new Golden Sun inspired me to make a homage to God of War 2018 using Isaac and Matthew from Dark Dawn. Hope you guys like it- IVA pic.twitter.com/nvoIVfjPS8
— Isaac's Allied Adepts ☀️ #GoldenSunday (@IsaacAdepts) December 31, 2019
EricTheGamerman
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Uh.... Awakening released in April 2012 in Japan, and February 2013 in the US. It wasn't even close to the release window for the system. Awakening's success has nothing to do with that release window, and at that was still a full 6 months removed from the price drop that made the 3DS a more desirable system.
This is revisionist at best, because, seriously 2011 was a bad time for the 3DS since the first major titles for the system were Ocarina of Time 3D and Star Fox 64 3D in the summer of 2011 (several months post launch) and it took until the September price drop from $250 to $170, Super Mario 3D Land, and Mario Kart 7 for the system to really well and properly recover. I enjoy Golden Sun, but no series of its size was going to make up for the 3DS' other launch issues and barren catalogue, and especially not if that title was of Dark Dawn's caliber (the good, not great standard). I don't think Dark Dawn being on the DS versus the 3DS was really the main nail in the coffin there. I think being a sequel that came too late that was less well received than it's predecessors was really the main issue.
Like, maybe an idealized version of Golden Sun on 3DS at launch with all of the advertising might of Nintendo could have done much better, sure. But isn't that true of basically any title if you get everything right and advertise it properly haha?
Ura
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My mistake. I remembered FE Awakening released in 2012/2013. Even so, a release window of something like 2012 could have helped the game wonders. It would both A) Give the devs a lot of time to polish the game and give it the improvements it needed and B) Make it timely enough to be in Smash 4. Would also be in that sweetspot for games that did really well at that time like KI Uprising. It's critical reception would still be "ehh" but at least it doesn't send the series to purgatory for a decade.
Either way, it didn't need to be on the DS really.
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EricTheGamerman
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2012 was just on the cusp on "timely for Smash" since the project plan went into effect that year, so I'm not sure it really changes much.
Keep in mind, here's the Smash newcomer slate:
Villager - Animal Crossing City Folk (and AC in general)- 2000-2008
Mega Man - Mega Man 10 (and in general) - 1980s-2010
Wii Fit Trainer - Wii Fit - 2008
Rosalina - Super Mario Galaxy - 2007
Little Mac - Punch-Out - 2009
Greninja - Pokemon XY - 2013
Mii Fighters - Wii - 2006
Palutena/Dark Pit - Kid Icarus Uprising - 2012
Pac-Man - Just sort of Pac-Man in general
Lucina/Robin - Fire Emblem Awakening - 2012-2013
Shulk - Xenoblade Chronicles - 2010
Bowser Jr. - Super Mario Sunshine forward - 2002
Duck Hunt - Duck Hunt - Retro from 1984
Basically anything from the Brawl project plan (2005) to the creation of the Smash 4 project plan (2012) was fair game since that was the focus for base Smash 4's roster, so Golden Sun Dark Dawn releasing in 2012 wouldn't have really put it in any better of a position in terms of leveraging Isaac for Smash honestly. It was already in the ideal window for inclusion in Smash 4 and in a different world where Dark Dawn was better and sold better, he might have been in over Shulk or someone else here, but then Dark Dawn just absolutely cratered. It was just really bad timing for Golden Sun to do so poorly since it might have had a real shot for Smash 4 otherwise.
I still don't think a 2012 3DS release changes all that much or that the 2010 DS release was the issue (The DS had an install base of well over 100 million at that point, it always made sense to release the game on the system). It was the middling quality, lack of advertising, and passage of time without Golden Sun that really hurt it. Awakening, Uprising, and New Leaf all exploded in that 2012-2013 period more specifically because they were top quality titles that went out of their way to pick up players new and old with rich gameplay experiences. I'd say they all helped the 3DS more than the 3DS helped them. Dark Dawn would have needed to have been a similarly large step up in quality to have this big "Golden Sun" moment.
Isaac: Venus Adept
Smash Lord
It's officially 2020! (where I live at least). Last decade was a crazy ride and while we didn't get what we want out of the Golden Sun series, the hype train we went in that period has given me memories I'll never forget. Here's hoping the Golden Sun will shine again bigger than ever in the coming years, we may very well have the series revived and Isaac in Smash if we keep at it.
Happy New Year fellow adepts!
Happy New Year fellow adepts!
Bassoonist
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I still don't understand what happened to Golden Sun. It was quite big back when I was in middle school. All of the gamers I knew were playing it and talking about it.
I don't feel like series should have had to have maintained a one to two year release gap to remain successful, but they should have still released something in the 2005-2007 era at least, I think. It's just so bizarre that a series that was so popular could completely fall off the ledge from just a not-as-good game after an eight year gap. The eight year gap is probably what did it more than anything. Ouch.
Indeed, I don't think that being released on the 3DS like this in 2011 would have helped the series much (it would have delighted me a whole bunch, though as 3DS was a barren wasteland until late 2011). However, I still think it was foolish of Nintendo to put so much weight on a DS release in late 2010. I feel like a similar thing happened recently with AlphaDream and Mario & Luigi. If the company was on the brink of bankruptcy why in the world would they take money to produce nice but not amazing remakes on the 3DS after the Switch had already long taken over?
Perhaps Nintendo just has this bad habit of sticking crucial releases for struggling franchises on dying consoles. Geez.
Give Golden Sun another chance, Nintendo/Camelot!
I don't feel like series should have had to have maintained a one to two year release gap to remain successful, but they should have still released something in the 2005-2007 era at least, I think. It's just so bizarre that a series that was so popular could completely fall off the ledge from just a not-as-good game after an eight year gap. The eight year gap is probably what did it more than anything. Ouch.
Indeed, I don't think that being released on the 3DS like this in 2011 would have helped the series much (it would have delighted me a whole bunch, though as 3DS was a barren wasteland until late 2011). However, I still think it was foolish of Nintendo to put so much weight on a DS release in late 2010. I feel like a similar thing happened recently with AlphaDream and Mario & Luigi. If the company was on the brink of bankruptcy why in the world would they take money to produce nice but not amazing remakes on the 3DS after the Switch had already long taken over?
Perhaps Nintendo just has this bad habit of sticking crucial releases for struggling franchises on dying consoles. Geez.
Give Golden Sun another chance, Nintendo/Camelot!
NessAtc.
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The *actual* reason Shulk made it in over Isaac is simple. Xenoblade 1 did not break records by any means, but the demand for it prompted franchising. Dark Dawn actually did do better than Xenoblade 1, but there was uncertainty in it's future. Project Rainfall is the reason for Xenoblade's initial notoriety, and likely played a big part in Shulk being added, since Rainfall was free marketing, while DD didn't get any marketing, and so got less exposure. By that same token, Zael got a trophy in Smash 4 due to Project Rainfall.
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Sabrewulf238
Smash Hero
I noticed Nintendolife reported on the God of War Director saying he wanted another Golden Sun. I wasn't sure if they would.
Anything we can get to push the Golden Sun series is a positive. It makes me wonder what other big names in the gaming industry are also Golden Sun fans.
Anything we can get to push the Golden Sun series is a positive. It makes me wonder what other big names in the gaming industry are also Golden Sun fans.
Isaac: Venus Adept
Smash Lord
Shulk was also probably given priority over Isaac because Monolith was ready to continue making Xenoblade games after Chronicles while Camelot went back to the Mario Sports cycle after Dark Dawn. So in hindsight it was more beneficial for them in the long term. If the Golden Sun series comes back and gains the success it deserves there's no more excuses for them to hold Isaac back in becoming a fighter
Ura
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No i'm saying it helps it's Smash prospects in a sense that A) It's more relevant in the minds of the fans and B) In this hypothetical scenario, it does better being released in the 3DS' sweet spot and thus there's more of a demand for a Golden Sun character in Smash 4. Ironically, this would mean Matthew would be more likely for Smash 4 and Isaac would only get in Ultimate as an Echo Fighter due to fan demand lol.
I would also say a Holiday 2011 release could have also done wonders for the series as well thinking about it more. Given that was the time the 3DS was rebounding strong following the price cut & the Ambassador program on that platform. And given that there wasn't much to compete with at that time, I could potentially see that being the best release date possible for GS3 IMO.
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RetrogamerMax
Smash Legend
Happy new years Golden Sun fans! Let's hope we get another Golden Sun game this decade as well as Isaac in Smash.
Organization XIII
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Happy New Year's guys. This is gonna be the year that Camelot finally announces a new Golden Sun. Probably. Maybe. Hopefully. Seriously Camelot and Nintendo just do it already.
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Mizuiro24
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I'm not so surprised honestly, I mean: God of War director is clearly a lover of Greek Mithology, while Golden Sun is the only Nintendo IP with this culture (and and one of the few games in general).
Killing Poseidon with his own Trident in the lost age gave him the idea :D
Guynamednelson
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The new GoW is focused on Norse mythology instead. Which GS has as well, like Thor being a summon.
RetrogamerMax
Smash Legend
Ah
Kid Icarus has Greek mithology written all over it. Hell two of the main antagonist in the games are Medusa and Hades themselves.
Diddy Kong
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I would choose Felix as a Echo honestly, mostly because what people already said here. Felix just looks more different from Isaac, and I think TLA did a lot better than DD.
Also I sort of have the feeling we might see Golden Sun rise up again in 2020.